*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[AAABatteries]

The Hawks have played the league's second easiest schedule. They aren't anywhere near the second best team in the league.

Who exactly do you have ahead of them right now? Toronto, with whom they're even in the loss column, has played an even easier schedule and doesn't have a "holy ####" win since they beat Atlanta before Thanksgiving. Memphis, also tied in the loss column, has lost three in a row and has a worse point differential.

I'll give you Portland I guess, even though they got shellacked yesterday in Houston, a place where Atlanta cruised to an easy win on Saturday. But even so, that would put them third. I don't see anyone else in the mix right now. In a month or two, probably, and in April/May, almost certainly. But not right now, which is why I said "at the moment."

Toronto has thumped them twice, has played a tougher schedule, has a better record, has a better point differential and also been missing one of their top players.

Atlanta has certainly been playing great but I can't put them ahead of Toronto. I'd hope the Raptors draw them in the playoffs over the Bulls or Cavs.

I would agree with this but isn't Derozan still out? I think that is why Tobias is saying now. I'd take them over the Hawks when healthy too because of the reason you state.

 

[Juxtatarot]

With Jabari out, Rookie of the Year leader is who? Wiggins? McDaniels? Noel? MIrotic?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

The Hawks have played the league's second easiest schedule. They aren't anywhere near the second best team in the league.

Who exactly do you have ahead of them right now? Toronto, with whom they're even in the loss column, has played an even easier schedule and doesn't have a "holy ####" win since they beat Atlanta before Thanksgiving. Memphis, also tied in the loss column, has lost three in a row and has a worse point differential.

I'll give you Portland I guess, even though they got shellacked yesterday in Houston, a place where Atlanta cruised to an easy win on Saturday. But even so, that would put them third. I don't see anyone else in the mix right now. In a month or two, probably, and in April/May, almost certainly. But not right now, which is why I said "at the moment."

Toronto has thumped them twice, has played a tougher schedule, has a better record, has a better point differential and also been missing one of their top players.Atlanta has certainly been playing great but I can't put them ahead of Toronto. I'd hope the Raptors draw them in the playoffs over the Bulls or Cavs.

I would agree with this but isn't Derozan still out? I think that is why Tobias is saying now. I'd take them over the Hawks when healthy too because of the reason you state.

I guess. But we could just look at the team who has the best record in the last X games and say that is the best team right now. Atlanta certainly qualifies as one of the hottest teams right now. But hottest != best.Eta: still haven't heard any estimate on when Derozan will be back.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

With Jabari out, Rookie of the Year leader is who? Wiggins? McDaniels? Noel? MIrotic?

Wiggins or Mirotic.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Wiggy.

 

[Slapdash]

Hornets look an awful lot better with Lance on the bench.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Wiggy.

Wiggins: TS% .458, PER 9.10

Mirotic: TS% .618, PER 18.13

I agree that Wiggins is probably the leader though.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Wiggy.

Wiggins: TS% .458, PER 9.10

Mirotic: TS% .618, PER 18.13

I agree that Wiggins is probably the leader though.

I think Wiggins' minutes will continue to go up while Mirotic will be spotty with Taj back. If he got 25mpg, he'd be it (have him on my dynasty team and I'm pretty pumped about it).

Also, I don't think voters look at advanced stats...so...yeah.

Edit: Wiggins will also benefit from Rubio's return and Brewer's departure (minutes).

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Also, aren't we overlooking the obvious/awesome choice for Josh Smith? THE LAKERS!

 

[popsecret]

Also, aren't we overlooking the obvious/awesome choice for Josh Smith? THE LAKERS!

Between Josh smith kobe and young the rest of the team would get 0 shots lol

 

[Juxtatarot]

Wiggy.

Wiggins: TS% .458, PER 9.10

Mirotic: TS% .618, PER 18.13

I agree that Wiggins is probably the leader though.

I think Wiggins' minutes will continue to go up while Mirotic will be spotty with Taj back. If he got 25mpg, he'd be it (have him on my dynasty team and I'm pretty pumped about it).

Also, I don't think voters look at advanced stats...so...yeah.

Edit: Wiggins will also benefit from Rubio's return and Brewer's departure (minutes).

Right. Points per game seems to have a huge impact on ROY voting. I also think there may be some bias against an older stashed Euro compared to a #1 overall pick from the most recent draft.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Wiggy.

Wiggins: TS% .458, PER 9.10

Mirotic: TS% .618, PER 18.13

I agree that Wiggins is probably the leader though.

I think Wiggins' minutes will continue to go up while Mirotic will be spotty with Taj back. If he got 25mpg, he'd be it (have him on my dynasty team and I'm pretty pumped about it).

Also, I don't think voters look at advanced stats...so...yeah.

Edit: Wiggins will also benefit from Rubio's return and Brewer's departure (minutes).

Right. Points per game seems to have a huge impact on ROY voting. I also think there may be some bias against an older stashed Euro compared to a #1 overall pick from the most recent draft.

Another good point.

 

[SWC]

Also, aren't we overlooking the obvious/awesome choice for Josh Smith? THE LAKERS!

Between Josh smith kobe and young the rest of the team would get 0 shots lol

it would be awesome to see the swing of plus minus with kobe and smith on the floor versus them on the bench tho i bet it might be a forty point swing take that to the bank brohans

 

[Kev4029]

I've been wanting smith on the rockets for a couple years. If he will focus on D and cleaning the glass he will be really nice for the rockets.

Another immature player is probably not what the Rockets need.

No worries, between Howard & Harden they will get Smith back on track. Two of the hardest working, most dedicated professionals in the league today.

I appreciate that Howard and Harden aren't necessarily well liked but I've seen nothing to suggest that they are immature in terms of professionalism. Harden is leading the league in scoring, top 10 in assists, and an MVP candidate. Howard is 19 and 12 and playing excellent Defense. I don't imagine the addition of Josh Smith would suddenly be a plague on the Toyota Center because his teammates are too immature to bring him in to the fold.

Really? Nothing?

Houston makes sense on some levels because of their hatred for ####ty shots and their need for a power forward, but I think its a poor fit due to the personalities involved and the fact that Houston wants a good jump shooting forward.

I think Houston mostly wants someone that can guard Aldridge, Duncan, and Blake one on one. Everything else is just gravy.

For a team that is just about tops defensively and very middling offensively, I don't think he'll be a huge help.

 

[Kev4029]

With Jabari out, Rookie of the Year leader is who? Wiggins? McDaniels? Noel? MIrotic?

Wiggins by default. The only rookies that have been worth a rotation spot are Parker and Mirotic, but Parker is done and Mirotic won't see enough time to get his counting stats up.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I saw Shabazz Muhammad is listed as a rookie as well? He's been scoring in bunches lately.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

With Jabari out, Rookie of the Year leader is who? Wiggins? McDaniels? Noel? MIrotic?

Mirotic is unquestionably the best healthy rookie playing, but Wiggins still stands a good shot of winning given he'll see 30+ min/night consistently.

2 man race.

 

[Juxtatarot]

With Jabari out, Rookie of the Year leader is who? Wiggins? McDaniels? Noel? MIrotic?

Mirotic is unquestionably the best healthy rookie playing, but Wiggins still stands a good shot of winning given he'll see 30+ min/night consistently.

2 man race.

No joke: Front page of ESPN NBA right now is an article contrasting rookie Wiggins and rookie LeBron.

 

[AAABatteries]

Hawks hang on against Clippers. Wow, consecutive wins against Chicago, Cleveland, Houston, Dallas and now Clippers. Coach Bud the half-year COY for sure.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Damian Lillard with ANOTHER buzzer-beating 3-pointer, this time to send the game into OT at OKC.

#LillardTime

 

[Peyton Marino]

Lakers are the 7 seed in the West without Kobe.

 

[Raider Nation]

Who is currently the worst starter in the league? Let's assume Kobe is not an option.

 

[Popinski]

oof

He needs to be stopped.

Love how the bench did all of the heavy lifting to get them in it just to hand it to Kobe for the brick.

A couple weeks ago I said Kobe was the worst player in the NBA. You all thought I was kidding.

There are plenty of lesser talents of course, but there is nobody who does less to help a team win/more to make a team lose than Kobe. I'm not even sure it's close. Not really sure who's number two. Josh Smith maybe? Kendrick Perkins?

Even a measured, pragmatic smart guy like Zach Lowe is just about there with Kobe

I suspect garbage time in blowouts impacts this to a decent degree -- when other teams' scrubs are playing the Lakers Kobe-less scrubs. Still, pretty terrible.

You'd think so. But the few times I've watched the Lakers play they've been clearly better with Kobe on the bench regardless of situation. When you're shooting as poorly and as frequently as Kobe is and you're as awful defensively as he is, sometimes the noise that impacts the stats on the margins isn't really that significant.

Here's the one Lakers game where I watched every single possession carefully- check out the +/- numbers. And there was no garbage time in this one- in fact it was a four point game late in the fourth before Kobe happened. And you can do the same with other games too- here's last night's +/-, another close game where he was on the court until the end and closed with four straight turnovers or missed shots. In fact it's been a while since the Lakers had a game with a lot of garbage time.

I know people think we're talking about it too much but it's really fascinating considering the dynamics at work. It's a historically bad season, one of the worst in history, definitely one of the big stories of the season so far. The number of incredible searches you can do with it at basketball reference is limited only by your creativity. Lots of respected analysts have been discussing it at length, too.

BTW that Iverson season in that search was the "we talking bout practice?" one, so that's the company we're talking about.

That's impressive. Kobe currently is the only player in NBA history to average more than 20 FGA a game while posting a -W/S number.

Worst FG% in the shot clock era, of players that had 20 or more FGA per game:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1955&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=fga_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg_pct&order_by_asc=Y

 

[General Malaise]

That's a ####### road trip right there. Beat Cleveland, Houston and now Dallas. Go Hawks!

Solid!

Blazers beat San Antonio, New Orleans and OKC sans Durant. 3 of 4 for the good guys from Portland.

 

[General Malaise]

I saw Shabazz Muhammad is listed as a rookie as well? He's been scoring in bunches lately.

Dropped him right before the NOExplosion.

 

[Abraham]

Lakers. No Kobe. Lol

 

[SoBeDad]

Lakers. No Kobe. Lol

7 players in double figures. Over 50% from the field. Good defense, But fans still wanna see Kobe play.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Lakers. No Kobe. Lol

7 players in double figures. Over 50% from the field. Good defense, But fans still wanna see Kobe play.

Do they?

 

[General Malaise]

Lakers. No Kobe. Lol

7 players in double figures. Over 50% from the field. Good defense, But fans still wanna see Kobe play.

Do they?

Never met a Kobe fan before?

 

[Abraham]

Lakers. No Kobe. Lol

7 players in double figures. Over 50% from the field. Good defense, But fans still wanna see Kobe play.

Do they?

I just took a role at my company that will put me in LA roughly once every six weeks for a few days. I am planning my first few trips around when the rockets will be playing the lakers (1/25) and clippers (early March I think).

 

[Capella]

Checking in on the Lakers...

@jadande: Nick Young: "Some guys played like 'Django Unchained.' They were free tonight."

 

[tommyGunZ]

What''s the occasion for busting out this old suit?

 

[Capella]

What''s the occasion for busting out this old suit?

Primo got a 3-day bid.

 

[No. 16]

GAH! The only solace I take is that the Lakers did so well without Kobe.

We better win Christmas night.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

The Bulls beat Toronto and Washington in a back-to-back, and Derrick Rose has looked very good (and healthy).

 

[Sebowski]

The Bulls beat Toronto and Washington in a back-to-back, and Derrick Rose has looked very good (and healthy).

I'm just happy that beating Washington has become an accomplishment. Elated, even.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The Hawks have played the league's second easiest schedule. They aren't anywhere near the second best team in the league.

Who exactly do you have ahead of them right now? Toronto, with whom they're even in the loss column, has played an even easier schedule and doesn't have a "holy ####" win since they beat Atlanta before Thanksgiving. Memphis, also tied in the loss column, has lost three in a row and has a worse point differential.

I'll give you Portland I guess, even though they got shellacked yesterday in Houston, a place where Atlanta cruised to an easy win on Saturday. But even so, that would put them third. I don't see anyone else in the mix right now. In a month or two, probably, and in April/May, almost certainly. But not right now, which is why I said "at the moment."

vs. Bulls, @Cavs, @Rockets, @Mavs, vs. Clippers on a back-to-back with travel ... 5-0. Most of 'em not close.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

The Bulls beat Toronto and Washington in a back-to-back, and Derrick Rose has looked very good (and healthy).

Definitely the team to beat in the East if they stay healthy.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Varejao apparently has a torn Achilles? Tough blow for the Cavs.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Meanwhile, the Sixers now own Florida. Great defensive effort last night -22 TO's forced and 11 blocks

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Varejao apparently has a torn Achilles? Tough blow for the Cavs.

There goes his ironman streak.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Which player is the best on a one-on-one fast break? The obvious answer is probably LeBron still, but John Wall is so amazingly fast with the ball and certainly in the running.

 

[Bobcat10]

Varejao apparently has a torn Achilles? Tough blow for the Cavs.

There goes his ironman streak.

Only a matter of time. Now TT gets to play for a contract and the Cavs will overpay from a trade standpoint for a big.

 

[thecatch]

Which player is the best on a one-on-one fast break? The obvious answer is probably LeBron still, but John Wall is so amazing fast with the ball and certainly in the running.

I think I'd take Tyreke Evans over Wall for that specific scenario just because he's so much stronger. Bledsoe has to be up there too.

 

[SWC]

man the bucks blew it last night against charlotte they just did not look good on d at all and the o was sort of sluggish but they had protestors trying to shut the game down and other junk going on outside so who knows if that mattered at all but man i hope that they can win a couple here i do not want jabarri going down meaning that they pack it in jee whiz take that to the bank brohans

 

[TobiasFunke]

Which player is the best on a one-on-one fast break? The obvious answer is probably LeBron still, but John Wall is so amazing fast with the ball and certainly in the running.

I think I'd take Tyreke Evans over Wall for that specific scenario just because he's so much stronger. Bledsoe has to be up there too.

Wall has his pros and cons in this situation. One thing missing from his game at the rim is the ability to finish high off the glass like say Lowry or Teague, so struggles to finish if he doesn't get a step on the defender. He just doesn't have that shot in his arsenal, his layups tend to slide just past the corner of the rim instead of kissing high off the glass. On the other hand, nobody gets a step on the defender more than Wall. Also very few people can do stuff like this on a regular basis, which is helpful.

 

[Gr00vus]

Where's the :laugh/cry: smiley when you need it?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

The Bulls beat Toronto and Washington in a back-to-back, and Derrick Rose has looked very good (and healthy).

I'm just happy that beating Washington has become an accomplishment. Elated, even.

Nobody cares how you feel.

 

[Kev4029]

Varejao apparently has a torn Achilles? Tough blow for the Cavs.

Mozgov to the rescue?

 

[Juxtatarot]

The Bulls beat Toronto and Washington in a back-to-back, and Derrick Rose has looked very good (and healthy).

I'm just happy that beating Washington has become an accomplishment. Elated, even.

Nobody cares how you feel.

I do!