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NCAA HOOPS THREAD! -- K petitions to get Maui Jim Maui Invitational moved to Transylvania (2 Viewers)
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Scoresman
Footballguy
Arizona was actually playing better and more efficient at that time of year, and they're a slow team so kenpom should be favoring them, right? Gonzaga has only gotten better since the Arizona game too. Assuming that Arizona will pound Gonzaga is typical ignorant BS from a Power conference fan.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
But St. Mary's is in the WCC as well. So I don't buy their credentials either. So Gonzaga beat Florida when they were in disarray, Arizona without a couple of guys, and Iowa State. Three good wins all season. I don't think that's #1 seed material and I'm reasonably sure they would have gone 9-9 at best in the ACC (even assuming they were located within reasonable traveling distance or had Scotty and a transporter).
Scoresman
Footballguy
St. Mary's is around 10-15 in RPI. Dont know how that's not 3 quality wins right there. Florida was before their center got hurt. Iowa State won their tournament. Also, Gonzaga is not a slow team so they must really be good for kenpom to rank them at 1! Sorry but your post reeks of Power conference bias.
Pipes
Footballguy
Trier and Jackson-Cartwright both missed that game. AZ is a completely different team right now.Like how they pounded them when they played earlier this year?
Scoresman
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Correct.
AZ just beat two top 10 teams yet they were better when they played the zags shorthanded? I don't think so.
In The Zone
Footballguy
And only there because the North Carolina legislators and then-governor, now bye-byed, thought it was important to protect straight people everywhere from the ever-so-common harrowing public bathroom encounters with routinely found transgender predators. Oh, well.
The funny thing about this is that Columbia initially put in a bid for these games and were the favorite to get them but the higher ups at SC didn't want it to affect Dawn Staley and the women's team ability to play at home for the 1st 2 rounds of the women's tourney. If we get that bid there's no telling where the Gamecocks would be sent to
Were you guys (Gamecocks) good this season?
We were decent. We were better earlier in the season. We were one of the better defensive teams in the nation for most of the year but with our lack of depth fatigue took it's toll down the stretch.
We have the SEC POTY in Sindarius Thornwell who is the only guard in the nation to average over 20pts and 7 rebounds a game and he lead the SEC in steals. After that is where the questions begin. No other consistant shooters on the team. Our 6'6" sophomore PG, PJ Dozier, is a former McDonald's AA but he's been inconsistant all year. Our best big man is 6'9" Chris Silva. He's still a little raw and only had 3 years of basketball experience before he got on campus. He's very athletic but he has a bad habit of committing a lot of fouls and spending a lot of time sitting on the bench. We need him in the game. We have last years SEC 6 man of the year in Duane Notice that is primarily a 3 point shooter that plays good defense. If his shot is on we are hard to beat because teams can't focus primarily on Thornwell.
It should be a good matchup with Marquette.
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Pipes
Footballguy
I don't even like Arizona. I say this because we've seen overhyped Gonzaga teams before fall flat. This team looks better but I'm not buying until they actually make a final four. Congrats to them thought for getting that 1 seed.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Pipes
Footballguy
Don't care about those metrics I go by what I see right now and AZ looks like a top 2 or 3 team in the country right now.
TLEF316
Footballguy
I think Gonzaga is good, (huge fan of williams-goss going back to HS and the entire starting lineup could make the rotation at any team in the country) but I give very little weight to the wins over St. Mary's. They had a couple of ok wins out of conference (Nevada and Dayton both made the tournament) but other than that, their schedule was terrible. There's a reason this same group was left out of the tournament last year despite a gaudy 27-5 record.
They don't have anyone that can create off the dribble and their post guys aren't all that skilled either (when they play Gonzaga, they basically just throw up prayers over the big Pole without any idea of what they're doing). They're the 2nd best team in a bad league and their lack of athletes plays right into gonzaga's hands (especially this year, since they have multiple high major talents on the perimeter). They dont have 1 guy who could start for Gonzaga. At least BYU had Mikka.
They can make some 3's, so I guess they'll have a puncher's chance based on that, but I have a feeling VCU is just going to chase them off the line over and over again then run them into the ground. St. Mary's plays the 2nd slowest temp of the country and VCU will speed them up and get them out of their comfort zone.
They don't have anyone that can create off the dribble and their post guys aren't all that skilled either (when they play Gonzaga, they basically just throw up prayers over the big Pole without any idea of what they're doing). They're the 2nd best team in a bad league and their lack of athletes plays right into gonzaga's hands (especially this year, since they have multiple high major talents on the perimeter). They dont have 1 guy who could start for Gonzaga. At least BYU had Mikka.
They can make some 3's, so I guess they'll have a puncher's chance based on that, but I have a feeling VCU is just going to chase them off the line over and over again then run them into the ground. St. Mary's plays the 2nd slowest temp of the country and VCU will speed them up and get them out of their comfort zone.
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Scoresman
Footballguy
That's a myth. Google it, They've played to or over their seed expectation most years. Last year, which should be the best comparison since its the most recent, they made it to the sweet 16 as an 11.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You could put Wichita as the 7 and Dayton the 10 in the same game/bracket and not tell any difference. The 7-10 seeds and probably 6 and 11's too are all pretty close and come down to matchups and getting hot.
timschochet
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
I knew you were going to accuse me of that eventually - and you held out longer than I thought you would - but you're aiming that nerf gun at completely the wrong person. I'm a Duke fan, an Iowa fan, and a Northwestern fan now that Collins is there, but I absolutely love the non-power conference schools and what they bring to college basketball, so much so that I never, ever, use the terms "mid-major" and "low-major" because I think they're stupid and condescending. I've also been to about 90 college basketball arenas, so about 25-30% of the Division I total, and that includes many, many lower-profile programs. I enjoy those games thoroughly and it's refreshing not to deal with the OAD nonsense and other garbage that infests the "power conferences" (such as, e.g., providing prostitutes for players or creating a whole phony academic department to keep athletes eligible, to take just two recent examples, and I'll add in the fact that Bruce Pearl has a job in a "power conference" as further evidence of my position.) I am also not a college football fan of any kind (I watch, at most, the title game every season), so there's no college football power-conference bias for me there either; my college sports attention is just about 100% devoted to basketball. I absolutely love it when teams from lower-profile conferences roll overrated "power conference" teams and even had to feel happy for Mercer and Lehigh when they beat Duke teams with ridiculously exploitable flaws in recent seasons (even as mad as I was at Duke).
I already said that I admire Gonzaga (with one non-athletic exception) and what they've achieved. But honestly, St. Mary's status as a top 15 RPI team is equally silly; the RPI has to start somewhere and obviously, since the Gaels didn't lose to the Pepperdine/San Diego/San Francisco/Portland/Pacific gauntlet too often either, their RPI is inflated greatly as well as a result of what happened during the season. Is Gonzaga good? Sure. Is any team that got beaten on their home floor - in a huge comeback - by Brigham Young deserving of a #1 seed? No. They were a three seed at best, but I would have been happy to see them as a 2.
timschochet
Footballguy
Anyone think USC might upset a few teams? They look very athletic to me.
Pipes
Footballguy
A myth? 1 elite 8 and a couple of sweet 16's since 2000. They've had a couple 28-4 and 29-3 type teams lose in the round of 64 and 32. Hopefully they make a big run for you this year but I just think AZ is better.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Point taken on the Power Conference thing but we just have to agree to disagree on the 1 seed thing.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
PAC-12 hasn't been to the Final 4 since 2008? Didn't realize that. I like UCLA and Arizona could both change that this year but didn't realize how bad they've been the last decade.
timschochet
Footballguy
Really tough for UCLA- if they get there they'll earn it.
The way Arizona is playing Id pick them against any opponent.
Capella
Footballguy
Pipes
Footballguy
That's not what I said. They aren't overhyped most years. In the years where they've had great regular season and get a high seed they fall short of expectations. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Not trying to be a hater it's just the Arizona looks really really good right now.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
I agree that both teams are very good, (i've got them both in the final 4) but have you actually seen any opponent that doesn't play on the West Coast?
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In The Zone
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I haven't watched a lot of Arizona but it feels like if you have a defender that can shut down Trier they aren't all that great. Markinnen is good but not great. I could see Florida State beating them but the game if it happens would be on the west coast.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Understood, and that's fine. I honestly mean no disrespect to fans of Gonzaga, and I am certainly no Arizona fan (ugh, perish that thought immediately), so if that's the regional final I will be rooting for the Bulldogs quite vocally.
Arizona's path of SLC to San Jose to Phoenix (okay, Glendale) annoys me. James Daulton
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
Fair enough, even though it's not entirely accurate. But with an All American at guard and NBA one and done prospects coming off the bench, this is a quite frankly a much different team from those.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Is Collins really going to enter the draft? Seems like a poor decision given the depth of this year's group. He'd be better off going back and being the star as a soph. Draft express has him in their 2018 mock.
He's definitely a talent, but I'd worry that his production is inflated by the league. Again, how many WCC even have a big guy with a prayer of defending a future lottery pick?
Pipes
Footballguy
You could very well be right. It would be nice to see them take down a blue blood or two.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I do like AZ from watching them, but kenpom has them at 20, FWIW.
Scoresman
Footballguy
I agree that he should stay but a bunch of people on the zag forums who are apparently in the know see him as leaving.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Well he was crying upthread about poor Duke getting screwed in the seeding every year so take his analysis with a mountain of salt
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Not picking on you whatsoever, Larry, but for me that's reason #892 when Pomeroy makes no sense.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
typical
Shutout
Footballguy
Poor Duke getting screwed each year?!? Geez. I guess that's relative to each person's perspective but seems like every year, teams like NC, ND, Kentucky, Louisville, Zona, etc all have major contrast of style type landmine teams in their way and Duke always has a "gauntlet" Of VCMU, East Texas of the Valley, and St. George's community or something. Seems like every year, they are in the Sweet 16 before they ever face a team anyone has ever seen play twice or more.
Looking at the last decade, look at these 1st couple of round games: It's actually worse than I remember. Yale, Albany, Lehigh, Mercer, Ark Pine-bluff. You would think somewhere in the law of averages, Duke would play a team that, even in a down year, would face a name opponent. Not one single UCLA, Texas, Florida, Louisville, etc. Just one guy's opinion.
016
2-1
Defeated North Carolina-Wilmington in first round, 93-85
Defeated Yale in second round, 71-64
Lost to Oregon in regional semifinal, 82-68
2015
6-0
Defeated Robert Morris in first round, 85-56
Defeated San Diego State in second round, 68-49
Defeated Utah in regional semifinal, 63-57
Defeated Gonzaga in regional final, 66-52
Defeated Michigan State in National Semifinal, 81-61
Defeated Wisconsin in National Championship, 68-63
2014
0-1
Lost to Mercer in first round, 78-71
2013
3-1
Defeated Albany in first round, 73-61
Defeated Creighton in second round, 66-50
Defeated Michigan State in regional semifinal, 71-61
Lost to Louisville in regional final, 85-63
2012
0-1
Lost to Lehigh in first round, 75-70
2011
2-1
Defeated Hampton in first round, 87-45
Defeated Michigan in second round, 73-71
Lost to Arizona in regional semifinal, 93-77
2010
6-0
Defeated Arkansas-Pine Bluff in first round, 73-44
Defeated California in second round, 68-53
Defeated Purdue in regional semifinal, 70-57
Defeated Baylor in regional final, 78-71
Defeated West Virginia in National Semifinal, 78-57
Defeated Butler in National Championship, 61-59
2009
2-1
Defeated Binghamton in first round, 86-62
Defeated Texas in second round, 74-69
Lost to Villanova in regional semifinal, 77-54
2008
1-1
Defeated Belmont in first round, 71-70
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Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Stop it you big meanie jerk!! They don't even get the Greensboro invitational this year! It's a veritable gauntlet.
Shutout
Footballguy
No doubt. I wasn't even going to go that route (thought maybe it WAS just me that seemed to think they played the first weekend in their practice gym every year while teams like Gonzaga gets shipped to Tulsa or Arizona gets sent to Indianapolis to play Louisville.
SWC
Bromigo
i will remember this and if sc gets out i will say to everyone in the tavern that in the zone said it would be this way and they will be like what and i will say look just own it in the zone said it and so it is written so let it be done take that to the bank bromigos
Shutout
Footballguy
Just to switch gears a bit (and I don't really understand all the high-level "think tank" that goes into it) but do the top conference tournaments really mean anything anymore? Seems to be that teams in conferences outside the ACC can't really make a push by winning their tourney IF they were already expected to do well. Example: Kentucky has really become a different team the last few weeks. They won 10 or 11 in a row and won their tourney and didn't seem to move one bit. Conversely, North Carolina didn't seem to be hurt one bit by not at least going to the title game in theirs.
I just have the opinion that the committee missed something here. Not comparing those two teams directly.
I just have the opinion that the committee missed something here. Not comparing those two teams directly.
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strykerpks
Footballguy
Nobody likes Duke
strykerpks
Footballguy
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Spot on. They're very young, led by 3 very talented Freshman including the top 3 Point shooter in the country, Markus Howard, Sam Houser and Andrew Rousey. Kaitin Reinhart is a super streaky shooter and when he's cold he doesn't stop which I think is on Wojo to get him out of the game. Frustrates the hell out of me. I think an underrated player is Hanif Cheatem. Kid can ball.
They can be hot and cold, but they're young, Fischer is playing well too. They need to play better Defense and hit their shots in crunch time, which when they lose, is their downfall.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Committee to Duke: when you lost to N.C. State at home on January 23, your seed was pretty much locked in, guys.
Committee to UNC: did you finish with *****ONLY***** four regular season losses in that conference?????? OMG SRSLY? Well, there's simply no need to examine things any further. Here's a ticket to the Elite Eight.
Every year.
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