Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I think you have mischarcterized my arguments by trying to make my opinions directly contrary to the pats supporters.
So you are saying they play down to their competition? I am curious if you have other examples of this from their last three playoff runs or is this the first time they have done this. And if this is the first year they have done this maybe it is not them "playing down to their competition", maybe they just aren't as good as previous years.Dude.Dude, they played that game poorly and still won by 25 points....with Deion Branch dropping a sure TD bomb that would have made it a 32 point margin......playing POORLY. NE doesnt play POORLY in the playoffs.....they just play to win....they dont care if it was considered poor or brilliant....by 25 or 2....winning is winning. Theyll elevate their game when needed....this weekend.
I admit I am painting with broad strokes -I have the summary of your reasons. More accurate?I think you have mischarcterized my arguments by trying to make my opinions directly contrary to the pats supporters.
First of all, it is not O versus O - it is O versus D:I admit I am painting with broad strokes -I have the summary of your reasons. More accurate?I think you have mischarcterized my arguments by trying to make my opinions directly contrary to the pats supporters.
2. NE pass O vs Den pass D: solomatise, mik789fl believe that Brady, Branch, Givins, and Brown are better than the Denver DB's. Marc Levin cites an improved denver pass rush and excellent LB's as items of denver's D that will neutralize the Patriots' passing game.Your comment, while labelled as NE Pass D versus Den Pass O, actually discusses the Pats pass O versus the denver D.2. NE pass D vs Den pass O: solomatise, mik789fl believe that Brady, Branch, Givins, and Brown are better than the Denver DB's. Marc Levin Disagrees, citing an improved D-line and excellent cover LB's.
Fixed. look good? I'd hate to mis-represent anyones reasons.First of all, it is not O versus O - it is O versus D:I admit I am painting with broad strokes -I have the summary of your reasons. More accurate?I think you have mischarcterized my arguments by trying to make my opinions directly contrary to the pats supporters.2. NE pass O vs Den pass D: solomatise, mik789fl believe that Brady, Branch, Givins, and Brown are better than the Denver DB's. Marc Levin cites an improved denver pass rush and excellent LB's as items of denver's D that will neutralize the Patriots' passing game.Your comment, while labelled as NE Pass D versus Den Pass O, actually discusses the Pats pass O versus the denver D.2. NE pass D vs Den pass O: solomatise, mik789fl believe that Brady, Branch, Givins, and Brown are better than the Denver DB's. Marc Levin Disagrees, citing an improved D-line and excellent cover LB's.
I'd also throw something in there about Denver's pass O versus the Pats pass D.
Dude....where did I say they play down to their competition?? You provide that quote for me, and Ill provide you with a retort. I said theyd ELEVATE their game when needed....this weekend. Lets speak on our own behalves, shalnt we??....dude.So you are saying they play down to their competition? I am curious if you have other examples of this from their last three playoff runs or is this the first time they have done this. And if this is the first year they have done this maybe it is not them "playing down to their competition", maybe they just aren't as good as previous years.Dude.Dude, they played that game poorly and still won by 25 points....with Deion Branch dropping a sure TD bomb that would have made it a 32 point margin......playing POORLY. NE doesnt play POORLY in the playoffs.....they just play to win....they dont care if it was considered poor or brilliant....by 25 or 2....winning is winning. Theyll elevate their game when needed....this weekend.
In the same post, one sentence later:Dude, they played that game poorly and still won by 25 points....
Please explain. I'm missing something.NE doesnt play POORLY in the playoffs.....they just play to win....
You're not allowing for the greatness of Tom Brady here! Even if Denver scores more points, Brady can still win the game for NE.Denver wins because they will score more points than NE.
Holy crap...I forgot all about Brady.However...I see your bet and raise you the following:You're not allowing for the greatness of Tom Brady here! Even if Denver scores more points, Brady can still win the game for NE.Denver wins because they will score more points than NE.
I hate to drag on arguments where the other side obviously isn't going to get it but sometimes I just can't help myself. You said they elevate their game when needed. So what happens when they don't need to elevate their game (vrs Jax)? They play like crap.Dude....where did I say they play down to their competition?? You provide that quote for me, and Ill provide you with a retort. I said theyd ELEVATE their game when needed....this weekend. Lets speak on our own behalves, shalnt we??....dude.So you are saying they play down to their competition? I am curious if you have other examples of this from their last three playoff runs or is this the first time they have done this. And if this is the first year they have done this maybe it is not them "playing down to their competition", maybe they just aren't as good as previous years.Dude.Dude, they played that game poorly and still won by 25 points....with Deion Branch dropping a sure TD bomb that would have made it a 32 point margin......playing POORLY. NE doesnt play POORLY in the playoffs.....they just play to win....they dont care if it was considered poor or brilliant....by 25 or 2....winning is winning. Theyll elevate their game when needed....this weekend.
Why can't Denver elevate their game too? Isn't it possible that even if NE "elevates" their game, they still can lose? Why does it always have to be about NE?I hate to drag on arguments where the other side obviously isn't going to get it but sometimes I just can't help myself. You said they elevate their game when needed. So what happens when they don't need to elevate their game (vrs Jax)? They play like crap.Dude....where did I say they play down to their competition?? You provide that quote for me, and Ill provide you with a retort. I said theyd ELEVATE their game when needed....this weekend. Lets speak on our own behalves, shalnt we??....dude.So you are saying they play down to their competition? I am curious if you have other examples of this from their last three playoff runs or is this the first time they have done this. And if this is the first year they have done this maybe it is not them "playing down to their competition", maybe they just aren't as good as previous years.Dude.Dude, they played that game poorly and still won by 25 points....with Deion Branch dropping a sure TD bomb that would have made it a 32 point margin......playing POORLY. NE doesnt play POORLY in the playoffs.....they just play to win....they dont care if it was considered poor or brilliant....by 25 or 2....winning is winning. Theyll elevate their game when needed....this weekend.
Since you are probably going to say this isn't "playing down to the competition" I'll just let it drop.
Instead I'll use your exact words and ask, what happens if they can't elevate their game against Den? In previous years I don't believe they had a very poor game and then magically elevated their game when needed. They were good the whole way through the playoffs. This year they are not, but people are convinced that because they are the Pats last week's showing doesn't matter. It matters much more than what happened in the last 4 years in the playoffs.
I stopped looking through this thread right here.... they play eachother this weekend and the game can't end in a tie.
Some great stuff in here that's being overlooked in general.I completely agree that the strength of Denver's defense is the passing game. I was checking out the FootballOutsiders.com stats on this (SSOG can tell you all about them) ... they have Denver #4 against the pass on a per-play basis. Total passing yards allowed isn't the greatest indicator in this case since Denver's seen more passing attempts than anyone in the league.After all of this, I haven't made my predictions on the game yet. Everyone has posed some good arguements - some I agree with, some I don't. Of course, I can make up my own mind, so here goes:
The true strength of the Denver D is the passing D - NOT the rushing D. The season numbers are decieving - Denver has by far the fewest rushes against them in the league, which would account for the low rushing yards allowed. They have allowed 4.0 ypc - 16th in the league. The low totals are a function of taking an early lead, and with their pwerful rushing O, sitting on the clock. Opposing teams were forced to pass early alot, and giving up on the rush altogether. NE is 4th in the NFL in allowed ypc, by the way.
The passing D, on the other hand, is much better. Denver has had by far the most passing attempts against them in the NFL. On a yards per attempt basis, they are 6th in the NFL, behind Chicago, Baltimore, Washington, Pittsburgh, and Carolina. NE is 29th in yards per attempt. NE hasn't seen a pass D like this since week 3, and we all know that we can't look at any NE's performances prior to week 8.
So, I say Denver wins becaue of:
1. Home field advantage.
2. Denvers pass D > NE pass O.
Agreed, I think we're all so pumped right now. I haven't been this excited about a playoff game since the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl.This game can't get here fast enough.
Surf, your point about Plummer is where I feel the game will be decided. Should Plummer play well and not turn the ball over, Denver will be in great shape. And if he plays well, I'll be the first to admit it.
Took the words right out of my mouth.I haven't been this excited about a playoff game since the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl.
I am definately on board with these sentiments. I almost wish Denver loses because I don't think I can take another week of anticipation.I do think it is fair to say that the game will boil down to Plummer and your thoughts on this game are based on your prediction of him (generally speaking). If you think about Plummer circa 2005, Denver has an excellent chance. Plummer circa 2004, not so much.Took the words right out of my mouth.I haven't been this excited about a playoff game since the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl.
Denver fan? really?I am definately on board with these sentiments. I almost wish Denver loses because I don't think I can take another week of anticipation.Took the words right out of my mouth.I haven't been this excited about a playoff game since the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl.
Marc - I'm thinking there will be several Patriot turnovers. If they try to go to the spread I don't know how Brady will get the calls off to his line, rb's and receivers if the Denver crowd is as loud as I think it will be. I see a hit on the arm from a missed blitz pickup and a fumble and perhaps a route miscommunication turning into an interception - and maybe more than one of these. They will be blitzing from all angles - if Lynch hits Brady hard on a few plays that will help as well. I see false starts and some delay of game calls and lots of long yardage situations.I also agree with you on special teams, the Patriots have an advantage as I still think Elam is not 100%. Vinitiari is THE clutch kicker.Denver fan? really?I am definately on board with these sentiments. I almost wish Denver loses because I don't think I can take another week of anticipation.Took the words right out of my mouth.I haven't been this excited about a playoff game since the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl.
Kid - you are 100 percent deadon, IMO - as I stated earlier, I donlt think ther Pats wil turn the ball over much, they are too focused in the playoffs. if Jake keeps the ball in the offense's hands w/o INTs, the Broncos will be in excellent shape throughout the game.
But - do NOT overlook the play of the special teams -these are two of th ebest ST units in the game - one big play on ST one way or the other could also swing the game.
so...Den will win becase Brady will overthrow everybody?But maybe there's one worry the coach and quarterback Tom Brady should have about playing in Denver, said Dr. Mark Pearlmutter, chief of emergency medicine at Caritas St. Elizabeth's Medical Center in Brighton.Because the air is thinner, there's less resistance, so the football could travel farther with the same amount of arm thrust than it would in Foxborough.''So rather than health concerns," Pearlmutter said, ''it's probably more of a concern of Tom Brady tossing long."
LO(mf'in)LYeah - that's why teams have problems throwing against Denver's defense this year - the past few years of shoiddy pass defense at home all occurred on abberant days when the air was artificially "thickened."Ah, the playoffs - when we examine the minutae so that we can suggest the ridiculous.Oh, and the first meeting in this "thin air?" Brady completed 24 of 46, for 299, and a TD. That is 6.5 YPA against a team that gave up 5.9 all year long.Because the air is thinner, there's less resistance, so the football could travel farther with the same amount of arm thrust than it would in Foxborough.
Ah, but the last time these two teams met, Sauerbrun wound up winning the AFC's special-teams player of the week award.I also agree with you on special teams, the Patriots have an advantage as I still think Elam is not 100%. Vinitiari is THE clutch kicker.Denver fan? really?I am definately on board with these sentiments. I almost wish Denver loses because I don't think I can take another week of anticipation.Took the words right out of my mouth.I haven't been this excited about a playoff game since the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl.
Kid - you are 100 percent deadon, IMO - as I stated earlier, I donlt think ther Pats wil turn the ball over much, they are too focused in the playoffs. if Jake keeps the ball in the offense's hands w/o INTs, the Broncos will be in excellent shape throughout the game.
But - do NOT overlook the play of the special teams -these are two of th ebest ST units in the game - one big play on ST one way or the other could also swing the game.
Because teams that finish +4 in turnover differential don't lose.Post-mortem time - Why did Denver win?
This appears to have been closer than expected.here's the worst excuse I have ever heard - form the front page of todays boston globe:
so...Den will win becase Brady will overthrow everybody?But maybe there's one worry the coach and quarterback Tom Brady
should have about playing in Denver, said Dr. Mark Pearlmutter, chief
of emergency medicine at Caritas St. Elizabeth's Medical Center in
Brighton.
Because the air is thinner, there's less resistance, so the football
could travel farther with the same amount of arm thrust than it would
in Foxborough.
''So rather than health concerns," Pearlmutter said, ''it's probably
more of a concern of Tom Brady tossing long."
This appears to have been closer than expected.here's the worst excuse I have ever heard - form the front page of todays boston globe:
so...Den will win becase Brady will overthrow everybody?But maybe there's one worry the coach and quarterback Tom Brady
should have about playing in Denver, said Dr. Mark Pearlmutter, chief
of emergency medicine at Caritas St. Elizabeth's Medical Center in
Brighton.
Because the air is thinner, there's less resistance, so the football
could travel farther with the same amount of arm thrust than it would
in Foxborough.
''So rather than health concerns," Pearlmutter said, ''it's probably
more of a concern of Tom Brady tossing long."
To most outsiders (non Denver or NE fans like myself) it was fairly obvious that NE was not playing at a high level. Not only did they NOT elevate their game (as I suspected they wouldn't) they actually played WORSE. Guess what, winning on the road in the NFL playoffs against a rested team is not easy, even if you have a great coach and QB.I hate to drag on arguments where the other side obviously isn't going to get it but sometimes I just can't help myself. You said they elevate their game when needed. So what happens when they don't need to elevate their game (vrs Jax)? They play like crap.Dude....where did I say they play down to their competition?? You provide that quote for me, and Ill provide you with a retort. I said theyd ELEVATE their game when needed....this weekend. Lets speak on our own behalves, shalnt we??....dude.So you are saying they play down to their competition? I am curious if you have other examples of this from their last three playoff runs or is this the first time they have done this. And if this is the first year they have done this maybe it is not them "playing down to their competition", maybe they just aren't as good as previous years.Dude.Dude, they played that game poorly and still won by 25 points....with Deion Branch dropping a sure TD bomb that would have made it a 32 point margin......playing POORLY. NE doesnt play POORLY in the playoffs.....they just play to win....they dont care if it was considered poor or brilliant....by 25 or 2....winning is winning. Theyll elevate their game when needed....this weekend.
Since you are probably going to say this isn't "playing down to the competition" I'll just let it drop.
Instead I'll use your exact words and ask, what happens if they can't elevate their game against Den? In previous years I don't believe they had a very poor game and then magically elevated their game when needed. They were good the whole way through the playoffs. This year they are not, but people are convinced that because they are the Pats last week's showing doesn't matter. It matters much more than what happened in the last 4 years in the playoffs.
C'mon now.Faulk and Brown's fumbles were the ultimate difference in the game.Also, I think NE got outcoached. Denver brought pressure all game long and the Pats couldnt' do anything about it. They were VERY successful with screens and short passes but didn't stick with them. They could have easily marched down the field this way but tried to force things down the field instead.
The normally unflappable Brady was off his game right from the first snap when he was pumping his fist at Lynch. He had some good throws but missed many as well.
Agreed. Brady contributed nothing to their loss. Damn team around him didn't rise to the occasion.C'mon now.Faulk and Brown's fumbles were the ultimate difference in the game.Also, I think NE got outcoached. Denver brought pressure all game long and the Pats couldnt' do anything about it. They were VERY successful with screens and short passes but didn't stick with them. They could have easily marched down the field this way but tried to force things down the field instead.
The normally unflappable Brady was off his game right from the first snap when he was pumping his fist at Lynch. He had some good throws but missed many as well.
Not that Brady's miscues weren't bad but those two plays have nothing to do with coaching or Tom Brady.
Be objective.
Never said that.But you said that Belichick got OUTCOACHED.Agreed. Brady contributed nothing to their loss. Damn team around him didn't rise to the occasion.C'mon now.Faulk and Brown's fumbles were the ultimate difference in the game.Also, I think NE got outcoached. Denver brought pressure all game long and the Pats couldnt' do anything about it. They were VERY successful with screens and short passes but didn't stick with them. They could have easily marched down the field this way but tried to force things down the field instead.
The normally unflappable Brady was off his game right from the first snap when he was pumping his fist at Lynch. He had some good throws but missed many as well.
Not that Brady's miscues weren't bad but those two plays have nothing to do with coaching or Tom Brady.
Be objective.
I think there were plenty of instances of Belichick getting outcoached. He didn't have his special teams prepared, his defense only managed to pick off Plummer once all night (generally not creating much pressure and not really confusing Jake), and his offense was unable to handle the blitz. They made some big plays against it, yes, but the blitz beat them far more than they beat the blitz (including Bailey's 100 yard pick return).That said, it's only one game. Even the best of coaches lose, and even the worst of coaches win.Never said that.
But you said that Belichick got OUTCOACHED.
How are those two critical fumbles attributed to coaching?
It wasn't an easy punt to field. Brown was lined up on the LOS, looking like they were playing for the block. Brown had to run 40-50 yards back and make the catch in coverage. I don't think this was a good call.Didn't get his special teams prepared for WHAT exactly?
A punter jarring a fumble and Troy Brown muffing an easy punt?
It went right through his hands.That's hardly a coaching mistake.It wasn't an easy punt to field. Brown was lined up on the LOS, looking like they were playing for the block. Brown had to run 40-50 yards back and make the catch in coverage. I don't think this was a good call.Didn't get his special teams prepared for WHAT exactly?
A punter jarring a fumble and Troy Brown muffing an easy punt?
A better call would be to put him back there and field the punt like every other play...if you gamble and loose, with minimal upside and a huge downside...I'd say that was a coaching mistake.It went right through his hands.That's hardly a coaching mistake.It wasn't an easy punt to field. Brown was lined up on the LOS, looking like they were playing for the block. Brown had to run 40-50 yards back and make the catch in coverage. I don't think this was a good call.Didn't get his special teams prepared for WHAT exactly?
A punter jarring a fumble and Troy Brown muffing an easy punt?
Yes.Getting more TOs and Jake not making costly mistakes against a Pats D that played pretty well.Post-mortem time - Why did Denver win? Turnovers? Plummer? HFA? What say the sharks?
Gotta disagree - Shanahan's first half coaching was not very good, IMO.What did NOT happen is Belichek didn't pull a rabbit out of his hat with his halftime adjustments (something that he almost always excels at).Never said that.But you said that Belichick got OUTCOACHED.Agreed. Brady contributed nothing to their loss. Damn team around him didn't rise to the occasion.C'mon now.Faulk and Brown's fumbles were the ultimate difference in the game.Also, I think NE got outcoached. Denver brought pressure all game long and the Pats couldnt' do anything about it. They were VERY successful with screens and short passes but didn't stick with them. They could have easily marched down the field this way but tried to force things down the field instead.
The normally unflappable Brady was off his game right from the first snap when he was pumping his fist at Lynch. He had some good throws but missed many as well.
Not that Brady's miscues weren't bad but those two plays have nothing to do with coaching or Tom Brady.
Be objective.
How are those two critical fumbles attributed to coaching?