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Need a good kitchen knife. (1 Viewer)

Seriously be careful if you're not accustomed to sharp knives. I had never had a quality knife until recently. I got a very deep cut on my thumb the first time I washed it.

 
I'm a little worried I will accidentally cut my finger off again.  Any idea where I can buy some dull knives?

 
sports_fan said:
Seriously be careful if you're not accustomed to sharp knives. I had never had a quality knife until recently. I got a very deep cut on my thumb the first time I washed it.
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That's no joke. I'm being extra cautious now but I can see how a little mistake with this could be very painful. Had to warn my wife about it.

Right now I'm keeping it in the plastic sheath it came with in a drawer.

 
After you get used to it, the risk of cutting yourself with a sharp knife is much less than with a dull one

 
I have a couple Takeda knives that sell for $750 (combined). I use them enough but nothing gets more use  than a Chinese Chef's knife (of which I have a few). Looks like a cleaver but too thin, or a produce knife but too wide. The wide blade makes processing veggies much easier, and the knuckle protection is far superior than other designs.

The only knife you need (quick article)

I don't get the Victorinox hype but here it is from them, same steel, same handle as the lesser chef's knife, and so much better/more versatile/safer/faster. 

Better yet though... try this for a week. $11. Nothing. I had that until a neighbor decided to keep it.

I agree with this guy.

Quick vid.

Then there's Yan deboning chickens with it in 18 seconds.

If I convert one of you I will have improved a life.

 
Walked past the cutco booth at the fair last week. $2400 for a set -- does anybody actually own these ? 

 
Capella said:
Walked past the cutco booth at the fair last week. $2400 for a set -- does anybody actually own these ? 
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I sat through the presentation of these as a favor to a friend who was selling them.  Quite a racket, was not impressed 

 
proninja said:
In this vein, I think the sweethome's article is fantastic. 
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Eh, if going for the bare essentials, I wouldn't drop the money on the Mac. Use a restaurant supply like Katom. 

Chef

Bread

Pairing

$20 and they'll last just like they do in restaurants, perform virtually identical to the $170 list.

Also, bumping this because I was sharpening some this morning and any lefties around here interested in a kitchen knife?

 
El Floppo said:
wait... you've said many, many times before that you don't cook and won't ever cook. EVER.

:oldunsure:

what do you need the knife for, gb? 
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jamny said:
Wrong poster. I love cooking and grilling and have been stepping it up over the past few months.
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El Floppo said:
it's ok, gb... I get wanting to deny this now. just be careful... ok- OK?
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sometimes you go for things, and they don't quite work out. I'm still :lol:  at the idea here.

 
Find a place in your area that sharpens knifes for chefs.  Then take 4-5 of the knifes you already have there. Costs about 5 dollars a knife..  I do this twice a year and even the cheap knifes are like razors.

 
proninja said:
Sure, but they're made out of a softer steel, will require sharpening more often, and they are sharpened to a more obtuse angle, which absolutely affects cutting performance. 

If you've only got $20 to spend on knives, you can do everything you want to do with those three knives, and holy crap $20 is cheap. If you want a better chef knife for 90% of your use and you've got an extra benjamin kicking around, I feel fairly confident the mac will be a whole lot more pleasant to use over the long term. I don't own the Mac, but if it's anything like their shears compared to a cheap one I'm a big fan. 

Edit: If I were running a restaurant, and hiring very low wage employees to cook food (that I know won't take care of the tools) and my primary motivation was profit margin, you bet I'd buy the knives you listed. Since I know I will take care of my tools, and when I buy a nice knife it can last longer than I will, I figure I get years of enjoying a nicer tool that I use very often doing something I very much enjoy. While we home cooks can learn a lot from how restaurants do things, they aren't the same thing. 
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If the knives are used on a proper wood cutting board, the need for more sharpening is pretty minor for most home kitchens. That $10 Update chef knife is made from the same steel my old Wustoff Ikons (over a grand for the block) were made from. Unlike the Victorinox, it's forged and full tang rather than stamped and glued. I prefer the $10 knife to the Victorinox. :shrug:

Mac, Global, Shun, corporate quality Japanese knife makers, all very nice and a little better for the job. 13 times better? Only if you got the money, I guess. 

 
Da Guru said:
Find a place in your area that sharpens knifes for chefs.  Then take 4-5 of the knifes you already have there. Costs about 5 dollars a knife..  I do this twice a year and even the cheap knifes are like razors.
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Right, unless you have terrible quality stainless knives, a couple good sharpenings a year should do it, depending on use I guess. I like sharpening them myself, but have taken a few to the farmer's market where a guy does them while I shop.

 
jamny said:
That's no joke. I'm being extra cautious now but I can see how a little mistake with this could be very painful. Had to warn my wife about it.

Right now I'm keeping it in the plastic sheath it came with in a drawer.
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Actually it's not very painful at all if your knife is really sharp.

 
proninja said:
Those knives are "German High Carbon Stainless." That doesn't actually mean anything - you'll notice they don't list a Rockwell number like Wusthof does. If you really think that $10 chef knife is the same steel as Wusthof's highest end line, I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas I'd like to sell you. 

Those knives you listed are fine. They'll cut stuff. I'd rather spend an extra hundred bucks and get something that is a legitimate quality tool. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with me, as long as we don't pretend that the cheap restaurant store knives are equal to high end knives. There's a reason it's only 10 bucks. 
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Well, the biggest difference is marketing and perception. Knife manufacturers have done a nice job glamorizing their brands, but there's not that much to a hunk of steel and a handle. If the Chinese can clone smart phones, they can clone kitchen tools. Dexter, Winco, Update, a few others, all do a fine job manufacturing knives very similar to Wusthof, Henckels, Victorinox, etc.,  and for dirt cheap. X50crmov15. Wusthof steel.  My high end Wusthof $160. One of my Updates $13.  A Winco. Scroll over the blades. Same stuff. There's a bunch of cheap VG10 blades cloning Shun, Mac and Global too but I haven't tried them. I'm sure they're nice knives. Of course qc isn't as good, but I haven't received a lemon. Knives aren't complicated and the reviews from chefs for the Updates are strong. I prefer the $10 Update that started this to the $160 Wusthof because the handle is a Mac clone. They take and keep an edge IDENTICALLY, which makes them equally legitimate quality tools.  The 7" Update cleaver ($12) is a friggin' beast. As for hrc (hardness), I'm fond of stainless blades between 57-59. It gets brittle after that (the big beef with Shuns) which for me is a bigger deal than a keener edge and better retention. X50 (57-58 hrc) is super tough, super stainless, and can be abused way more than VG10 and the like, so I prefer it. It shreds paper after sharpening whether it came from China for $10 or Germany for 15 times more. :shrug:

 
proninja said:
My knives are named after the bladesmith who made them in Japan. You'd have to be a pretty big knife nerd to know the brand, and I've never seen an advertisment for them.  Don't care about that at all. 

I'm a big fan of winco stuff, for the record. I use their bench scraper for 2.99 (at the restaurant supply store) and their spatula for under six bucks on my griddle just about daily at home Knowing that you prefer a lower HRC on your knives puts your comments in context and makes a lot more sense. My main knives run 63, and my beater is a cheap Tojiro DP vg-10 at 60ish. After a couple years of daily use (just in a home kitchen), I haven't had to touch the main knives to a stone, I hone fairly often, and at a 15ish degree angle they're still paper-cutting (or tomato cutting, if you prefer) sharp. I need to spend some time with the Tojiro though, it's a little softer, does the rough stuff, and it's deteriorated.

I think we just have different preferences. You prefer a softer blade, I'm happy to baby my harder blades, because I'd much rather have a keener edge and better retention. For some knives, though, I prefer cheaper. Steak knives don't need to be expensive, a cleaver I'd never buy fancy to hack through bones, and it's pretty hard to justify spending too much cash on a serrated knife I can't bring up to speed on a stone when it wears out, sort of like a non-stick skillet. But really, if you can find me a 63 HRC powdered steel 270mm gyuto for 20 bucks, I'll be all over it.  I've used mid-level Henckels and Wusthof stuff, and meh. My guess is the cheap knives would do just as good of a job, and they're way cheaper. For someone who buys a mid-level block at Macy's, your advice is spot on. For someone who prefers a keener edge and better retention, it's a bit silly to pretend the $10 knife will be just the same as a high HRC knife.

I'm pretty sure I've used updates too, they look identical to a knife I got on vacation in a timeshare because I couldn't deal with the knives left at the timeshare. They were great for what they were. That cleaver is in my cart as we speak.
 
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Uh, yeah.  I'll take a link.  

Do you find a huge difference with a 63 over something like the molybdenum/vanadium 58 I get with my G2? I haven't used anything harder.  

 
proninja said:
My knives are named after the bladesmith who made them in Japan. You'd have to be a pretty big knife nerd to know the brand, and I've never seen an advertisment for them.  Don't care about that at all. 

I'm a big fan of winco stuff, for the record. I use their bench scraper for 2.99 (at the restaurant supply store) and their spatula for under six bucks on my griddle just about daily at home. Knowing that you prefer a lower HRC on your knives puts your comments in context and makes a lot more sense. My main knives run 63, and my beater is a cheap Tojiro DP vg-10 at 60ish. After a couple years of daily use (just in a home kitchen), I haven't had to touch the main knives to a stone, I hone fairly often, and at a 15ish degree angle they're still paper-cutting (or tomato cutting, if you prefer) sharp. I need to spend some time with the Tojiro though, it's a little softer, does the rough stuff, and it's deteriorated.

I think we just have different preferences. You prefer a softer blade, I'm happy to baby my harder blades, because I'd much rather have a keener edge and better retention. For some knives, though, I prefer cheaper. Steak knives don't need to be expensive, a cleaver I'd never buy fancy to hack through bones, and it's pretty hard to justify spending too much cash on a serrated knife I can't bring up to speed on a stone when it wears out, sort of like a non-stick skillet. But really, if you can find me a 63 HRC powdered steel 270mm gyuto for 20 bucks, I'll be all over it.  I've used mid-level Henckels and Wusthof stuff, and meh. My guess is the cheap knives would do just as good of a job, and they're way cheaper. For someone who buys a mid-level block at Macy's, your advice is spot on. For someone who prefers a keener edge and better retention, it's a bit silly to pretend the $10 knife will be just the same as a high HRC knife.

I'm pretty sure I've used updates too, they look identical to a knife I got on vacation in a timeshare because I couldn't deal with the knives left at the timeshare. They were great for what they were. That cleaver is in my cart as we speak.

Do you work in this field?
 
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Careful with that cleaver, Eugene. You're not going to believe what you get for the money. I had a part time job in a cutlery store summer of 1980. I guess I kinda got the knife nerd bug. I also have some custom Japanese knives from little known smiths. Two Takedas, three others. They're all Aogami Super, 1, or 2 steel - hrc 91-95 - kurouchi finished. They look awesome on the kitchen wall. Unfortunately, I learned something about myself owning them. I'm not up for the maintenance to use them as daily drivers. They're not stainless. They oxidize. True nerds swear by them. I should sell them. When I'm cooking I have other things on my mind than cleaning and drying knives.  So you got our differences right. I like sharpening knives. I toss them in the dishwasher too. I can make paper thin slices from the softest tomatoes with my favorite knife , so it's all good. 

 
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proninja said:
The biggest difference is probably going to be edge retention. Globals are sharpened at roughtly the same angle as my knives, so when they're newly sharpened they'll probably cut very similar. The only long term experience I have with a global is with a paring knife, so I can really only address this in theory. 

But yes, I find they cut better. Or else I'd have bought more of the less expensive knives I've used instead.
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Yeah, I meant retention.  Just wondering.  I only need a sharpening once a year or so, though I use a diamond honer when I use it.  Was wondering how long you go between using a stone or getting them sharpened.  

 
proninja said:
I have figured out exactly how fussy I care about being, and carbon steel isn't on my wall. I'm not a true knife nerd either, I'm happy to rock stainless, and now that I have the knives I need I'm uninterested in shopping for more, just going to spend the next 40-50 years enjoying them before I die and my kids can fight over them. Because they'll still kick ### then. I'm more than happy to clean my knives when I'm all done cooking, dry them, hone them, and put them on the wall. Having to stop mid cook to clean and dry and worrying about developing a patina is farther than I am willing to go, as well. 
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:bag:  I'm always looking for a knife, a pocket knife, a garden knife, a hunting knife, a kitchen knife. I have to give knives away. It's why I'm seeking a lefty. I have a drawer full in my dining room hutch just being stored. I have a nice assortment in my outdoor kitchen area. I have several in my garage packed away. I have a variety in an emergency kit for the house and another for the car. Crap, I'm hoarder! I have 8  in the kitchen and five wa handled collectibles on the wall. I lost the Wusthof block to the ex, but I can't part with my departed mom's vintage Chicago Cutlery block (garaged). This thread reminded me that someone walked off with my Big Almighty last summer, so I just ordered this Sabun.  It'll go between my fridge and a counter on magnet, just the handle exposed.   :bag:  

 
proninja said:
Dammit. I was totally happy with my knife collection and now there's two knives I want. That Big Almighty looks rad. On the other end of the spectrum, this is a knife I use constantly. I lose pocketknives, and having one with my keys all the time is really convenient.  Plus, at that price I won't be devastated when I eventually donate it to TSA. 

I'm surprised you didn't link to a $15 restaurant supply knife for the Sabun ;)
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The Sabun was back ordered or out of production but they wanted three months to deliver so I just picked up another Big Almighty. Did you?

I Found a buyer through kitchenknifeforums. Two Takedas, two Anryus and a Saji -- $1200 paypal-ed, package shipped, and I threw in the left handed bread knife I tried to give away here. I took a $ hit here, but now I don't have a bunch of awesome Japanese knives I don't use because I'm an ogre who can't take care of nice things. I'm getting a couple stainless Takedas. One I want is currently unavailable. Order placed for this one just now. I'll use that beast everyday. Excited... look at me.

For the budget conscious, I picked up this bread knife a couple weeks ago (tired of that lefty and other old gear). It's every bit as useful as the $40 Victorinox I gave away. One of the stupidest values I've ever seen in a knife. $5 and fantastic on the most difficult crusty breads, hard rolls, bagels, slides through hard gristle, makes paper thin slices of chicken breast, etc. If the handle fails because it's so cheap I'll wrap it in parachord or epoxy something fancy to it and probably buy two more. The steel won't fail. It's a perfect clone of a professional baker's wavy edge. WTH?

 
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