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Need some relationship advice (1 Viewer)

Zow

Footballguy
NutterButter said:
I like what you're saying here.  I do think I'm overthinking it at this stage, but I needed someone else to tell me that.    I have limited experience in the dating world.  I do think I need to gather some more information though just to assuage my worst fears or hopefully at least come to some understanding.  Part of me hates postponing what inevitably might be a challenging conversation, but I also just want to enjoy myself.   
As a happily married and faithful man now of 8 years I will say that when my mind does occasionally wander to thoughts of dating past, it's the the wrong ones that I recall most fondly. 

Enjoy yourself. 

 

Zow

Footballguy
NutterButter said:
I wouldn't necessarily either up until a point.   She's had a bit of a rough background, but has persevered which is something that I really like about her.  But the finances aside, I'm doubtful that I can find a better situation just from my experience in the dating world.   Not that I don't think that there might be other women that grade better on the more traditional metrics, but this woman she seems like a great fit for who I am which is very important to me.   She doesn't even realize that I have money b/c I live so modestly unless a small ranch house and a hyundai santa fe is enough of a step up from her circumstances.   We've lightly touched on the topic a few times and she was pretty adamant that she can take of herself although I question how realistic she's being.   I think its a lot more just living in the moment with a lack of long term planning which is more of the opposite of how I've lived although I'm slowly coming around to enjoying the moment a lot more.   
She's not being realistic. And you may learn months down the line that she wasn't being truthful here. 

But, the key fact at this point is that she's not trying to take advantage of you financially one month in. That's a really good sign and seems like a clear green light to continue on. 

 

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Insoxicated
I think it really depends, but in general I highly value financial security (I live very modestly but have this most likely irrational desire to be financially secure even to the point that I'll more than likely have more money than I'll even know what to do with knowing how I live)  and I'm concerned that being in a relationship with someone that in the worst case scenario depends entirely on me to support them financially would jeopardize that.  Being in a relationship with someone that has a stable career, this would never cross my mind.  But someone that really has no financial security (no retirement, no emergency fund), I become that financial security for them.   Keep in mind that some of this is just me trying to navigate around my own issues which I'm well aware of.   I need some advice whether this is just me being me and I need to work through this, or whether this is something that normal person would be concerned about.  
IMO this feels a touch miserly.  

You don't mention your ages, but I'll guess you're middle-aged like most of us here. If so, if you're holding out for Hot, sane, AND financially independent... well.... I hope you enjoy first dates.  :lol:  

If you're truly in a place where you're tracking to retire with more money than you'll know what to do with, you should probably accept that you CAN afford to at least help support someone. Unless you're model-esque with a massive rooster yourself, you may want to understand that is part of your allure to the opposite sex. That's normal (within reason) and no more shallow than men seeking physical beauty. 

As others have said... have a talk with her. What are your goals with this business? Where do you see yourself professionally/financially in 10 years? 20 years? What is your path to get there? 

If her "plan" is for her corner store to turn into the next Lululemon without a clear plan, and refuses to entertain a backup plan... you know what you've got. If she has a clear plan, or admits the shop is a passion project and has a career to fall back on... then you're likely good. 

In any event it's early... but not so early that these communications are in appropriate. Do your best to not frame it as an ultimatum or an interview..... but make it clear that you like her a lot, you see potential, but you have concerns worth discussing. 

 
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offdee

Footballguy
She's not being realistic. And you may learn months down the line that she wasn't being truthful here. 

But, the key fact at this point is that she's not trying to take advantage of you financially one month in. That's a really good sign and seems like a clear green light to continue on. 
I mean what is she supposed to say? ..."I know I cannot take care of myself and my child so gotta find someone who is willing to do that for us"

The reality is she probably has convinced herself that she can.  My ex was the same way when I first met her....mortgage on a house that was underwater, no financial support from the ex husband, 3 young and growing kids, working 3-4 days a week as a hair stylist with about $4K in savings to her name.  All while trying to maintain her hot girl looks (clothes, heels, makeup, botox, etc).  It obviously wasn't sustainable.  And what do you know when we were having trouble and breaking up she says "I just wish I would've kept my house so I'd have some stability in my life".   Ridiculous.    The ones that aren't financially stable and don't know how to manage money are the same ones that believe it's perfectly fine to live paycheck to paycheck and really believe that somehow they'll just make it work.

 
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Zow

Footballguy
IMO this feels a touch miserly.  

You don't mention your ages, but I'll guess you're middle-aged like most of us here. If so, if you're holding out for Hot, sane, AND financially independent... well.... I hope you enjoy first dates.  :lol:  

If you're truly in a place where you're tracking to retire with more money than you'll know what to do with, you should probably accept that you CAN afford to at least help support someone. Unless you're model-esque with a massive rooster yourself, you may want to understand that is part of your allure to the opposite sex. That's normal (within reason) and no more shallow than men seeking physical beauty. 

As others have said... have a talk with her. What are your goals with this business? Where do you see yourself professionally/financially in 10 years? 20 years? What is your path to get there? 

If her "plan" is for her corner store to turn into the next Lululemon without a clear plan, and refuses to entertain a backup plan... you know what you've got. If she has a clear plan, or admits the shop is a passion project and has a career to fall back on... then you're likely good. 

In any event it's early... but not so early that these communications are in appropriate. Do your best to not frame it as an ultimatum or an interview..... but make it clear that you like her a lot, you see potential, but you have concerns worth discussing. 
... in like 2-3 months. 

 
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offdee

Footballguy
... in like 2-3 months. 
This is the key point.   In 3-5 months from now you two could be breaking up for a multitude of other reasons that have nothing to do with financials.  Everyone seems perfect after the first month or two of honeymoon bliss....new sex, both on your best behaviors, exciting conversations with someone new, etc.  Reality will hit at some point and have the needed conversations then...for now just enjoy the ride (pun intended).

 

eoMMan

Footballguy
Yeah, one month isn’t that long. It’s not like you’re shopping for rings. Who knows… maybe she’ll inherit boatloads in a couple months and the kid has been grinding away mining bitcoins in his room.

Keep it going and see what happens. It doesn’t hurt to have an honest conversation with her too. And you can always get additional clues with smaller, innocent questions while not directly asking “is yo ### broke?”

 

fruity pebbles

Footballguy
Too early as others have stated but don’t think you’re out of line in your thinking. Personally at this stage in my life and as someone who’s been divorced twice with small kids, I’m not interested in bailing someone else out of their own poor life decisions. Then again I like being single, hanging out with my kids and I don’t “need” someone else. I work way too hard to support someone making mittens on the side. That would fester with me. 

 

trogg78

Footballguy
Maybe just talk about what your doing financially and some of the mistakes you’ve made and how you fixed things. She might be more inclined to share. Offer to take some classes with her that might help her business. Until you decide you want to get married then your going to want to know more.

 

offdee

Footballguy
@NutterButter how old are you?  How old is she?  How old is the child?  How good is she in bed?

I feel these details are also important in this scenario.

 
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Pipes

Footballguy
Yep definitely putting the cart before the horse here.  Just keep hanging out and enjoying her company.  If you still like each other in a few months then it may be time to have this conversation.  Just do it before you drop the L bomb on her.

 

Nick Vermeil

Footballguy
Why are you thinking  you need to support her?  Sounds like she’s doing just fine for her and her kid AND she’s almost wrapped up a spouse who drives a Hyundai. Sounds savvy. 

 
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Psychopav

Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Too early for this question. 
 

Did you even sleep with her brother yet?

 

johnnycakes

Footballguy
Well, let me weigh in here.  In case you don't know my history, I married a beautiful Chinese girl (living in China) back in 2010.  We did the 90-day bride thing and got married in July of 2010.  She had a daughter who, at the time was 16.  Her husband, the father of her daughter, was killed in a car wreck that also cost my wife (now ex-wife) her right eye. 

Anyhow, we got married.  And in 2-3 years her daughter was going to college.  Well, I paid for all sorts of stuff.  I paid for ESL classes at some nice language schools in Boston before she even started college.  Somehow, my then-wife got her uncle, her deceased husband's brother, to pay for half of her education expenses.  I picked  up the other half.  Gladly,.  I mean, I had no second thoughts or hard feelings about it.  That girl still calls me her father.  

So I agree, a month in is a bit premature to be thinking about putting her kid through college.  But, I found, after I was in love with her and she came to the US, I loved our family unit.  I footed my part of the bill without any resentments at all.  If money is that important to you, I don't know what to tell you.  The best women don't tend to pair up with cheapskates.  

 

Mrs. Rannous

Footballguy
Keep in mind that some of this is just me trying to navigate around my own issues which I'm well aware of. 
This right here.  You have no way of knowing yet any real details about her unless you are both oversharing.  But your own issues you have some control over.  I would suggest you see a financial advisor and find out exactly where you stand since this bothers you so much.  Mr R and I are obviously in the minority.  We never talked about money, still don't talk about it unless we are making a large purchase, and it just never comes up.  Most people seem to be pretty puckered up about it.  I understand many of the concerns.  Our parents grew up in the Great Depression/WWII eras, where resources were scarce.  It colors your worldview.  Gaining insight into why it bothers you as much as it seems to should be useful regardless of what happens to this relationship.

Also, you can always get a prenup.  This protects both of you.

Also, I'd like to point out that it's one month in.  (I kind of feel like someone should have mentioned this.)  This seems like it's more about your anxiety than anything else.

(Also, the person who pointed out that no one really wants to go out with a cheapskate was right on.  For me, stinginess would be a red flag.  So would splashing money around.  Average is good.)

 

NutterButter

Footballguy
@NutterButter how old are you?  How old is she?  How old is the child?  How good is she in bed?

I feel these details are also important in this scenario.
I'm 45.  She's 48.  Her daughter is 13.   She's good enough or is there some scale I can reference to give you a more precise measurement.  

 

Hot Diggity Dog

Footballguy
I understand the impulse to move fast, neither of you are spring chickens, but giving it a few more months is a wise course of action.  Get a better feel how she lives her life and what the kid is like.  My own thinking is I would be as concern with what my long term relationship with the kid would be as much as the money situation.  3-4 months of dating will give you a whole lot more information and help clarify your feelings.  

 

jobarules

Footballguy
Been dating a woman for about a month now.   Things are going really well and I see some long term potential here.   She checks all the boxes and then some except for her financial situation.  She currently has a small clothing business (mostly handmade hats, scarves and other accessories) that she owns with another woman.  She has a daughter (13) and rents a house with her brother although it sounds like that might be just for the next year and then its unknown what she'll be able to afford after that.    I get the impression that she's essentially living paycheck to paycheck.   Don't know anything about her long term financial plans (paying for college, retiring, etc) and I hesitate to ask b/c I think we're just living in two different worlds.   I have no problem paying full fare for all of our dating excursions as I'm having a good time but I don't think I'm looking to support someone and possibly their kid in the long term.  I'd hate to call it off as its been slow going finding someone that's a legitimate 8 and 5 (so far) on the hot crazy matrix, but the pragmatist in me is concerned.   Talk some sense into me.  
Doesnt really sound like you are ready for a committed relationship then.

 

jobarules

Footballguy
Worried about someone who is a small business owner, may not be financially sound is really leaving yourself a lifetime of never finding a woman who IS financially sound. This woman sounds more financially sound than my wife of 18 years.

 

NutterButter

Footballguy
Doesnt really sound like you are ready for a committed relationship then.
Honestly, I don't know if I am either.   I'm really a loner by nature and have been perfectly content being one, but I always wanted to give being in a relationship another shot to see if its something that will enhance my life.  I've grown a lot as a person over the past X number of years (striving to be a great dad to two girls will do that) and I think I'm in a much better place this time around, but I still think there's some growth that needs to take place in order for me to be a great partner.  

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
Lol...mom and pop craft/fashion accessory business is a gold mine, Jerry....solid gold.

Maybe I've been too long out of the game, but IMO either you love her or you don't. If the financials are more important, I guess you don't love her.
Although I agree with your basic sentiment, he’s only been dating her a month. It’s too early to be worried about love or finance imo.

ETA I see others agree.
ftr, I didn't even notice the 1 month thing.

my friend's parents got married after 3 weeks, so butter better up his game here.

 

offdee

Footballguy
let it flow.  pre-nup can always be addressed and you can ditch her at that point if she balks.
Has a "real" marriage ever worked when there was a pre-nup with one party well off and the other party not financially stable?   I can kind of see it if both parties are on a similar level financially, but I'd think the other way bringing up a pre-nup is basically the beginning to a breakup.

I often see people suggesting prenup when these conversations start like it's some easy safety mechanism, but I just don't think it's truly a viable topic to establish stability in a couple.  In the case of nutterbutter's situation and he ultimately decides he wants to protect himself, you either agree to stay together and not get married or break up.

 

Chemical X

Footballguy
Has a "real" marriage ever worked when there was a pre-nup with one party well off and the other party not financially stable?   I can kind of see it if both parties are on a similar level financially, but I'd think the other way bringing up a pre-nup is basically the beginning to a breakup.

I often see people suggesting prenup when these conversations start like it's some easy safety mechanism, but I just don't think it's truly a viable topic to establish stability in a couple.  In the case of nutterbutter's situation and he ultimately decides he wants to protect himself, you either agree to stay together and not get married or break up.
i don’t know the % tbh, but if he already sees an issue, how do you try to address said issue?  ignore it and hope it resolves unto itself won’t work.  he could call it quits now.  if he brings it up, it might seem dooshie.  if he wants to proceed and protect himself, it seems a reasonable axe.

 

offdee

Footballguy
i don’t know the % tbh, but if he already sees an issue, how do you try to address said issue?  ignore it and hope it resolves unto itself won’t work.  he could call it quits now.  if he brings it up, it might seem dooshie.  if he wants to proceed and protect himself, it seems a reasonable axe.
As I noted....just don't agree to get married.  He can still be there for the woman and child and do all that a husband and father figure would do without putting himself in that financial risk.  If she's not OK with that, given the circumstances, then he'll know part of the reason she wanted to be with him was for his money. 

 

Chemical X

Footballguy
As I noted....just don't agree to get married.  He can still be there for the woman and child and do all that a husband and father figure would do without putting himself in that financial risk.  If she's not OK with that, given the circumstances, then he'll know part of the reason she wanted to be with him was for his money. 
well, he’s gonna maybe have to say why he won’t ever marry her.  remember too, being married has benefits; like insurance coverage, death benefits.  ah, i don’t care enough.  i was just bored watching golf.

 

Zow

Footballguy
ah ok then, that settles it.
I don't think he's wrong. I've written prenups for situations as described and they seem to be doing just fine. 

That say, from a purely legal standpoint, my advice matches yours in that it makes the most sense to just not get legally married. 

 

Drunken Cowboy

Footballguy
Okay, so my incredibly qualified dating advice after an impeccable dating career where I never made any mistakes, would be as follows: 

1. You're a month in. It should all be sunshine and rainbows at this point. If you're having reservations at this point that's probably a serious red flag in of itself regardless of what issue(s) gave rise to the reservation. It doesn't sound like she's pressing you at this point to support her past paying for your dates - which is reasonable behavior from her. So, at this point, this does seem like a you issue. 

2. The above comment notwithstanding, you're a month in. I would strongly encourage you to keep it casual and fun and not worry about long-term until at least the 4 month and probably 6 month mark (even seeing each other daily it probably takes ~6 months if not longer to get to know a person). If you're still into her at this point then consider your concern. FWIW your concern is valid and rational, but I think you're worried about it too early and don't have enough information to run the necessary cost-benefit analysis (enjoying her company v. cost). 

3. Of course she's looking to a prospective significant other for financial security. I would imagine many women (and probably a lot of men) are if they aren't in the few top percentages of Americans who are actually financially secure. This is especially true if she's got a kid. If you hit a point down the road where you're not willing to be the financial security blanket, then tell her/be up front with her. But know that if you do become serious/long-term with her that her child is part of the package and, at best, her child may tolerate you while you spend money on her child. It's just part of dating at your age. 

4. You're a ####### month in.  Relax and enjoy the sechs for now. 
This is surprisingly good advice.

Listen to Woz's dating advice.

 

NutterButter

Footballguy
Nothing exciting to report. I guess its approaching about 5 months. Its been a fun summer and we have a couple of trips (nashville and costa rica) scheduled. i think this one is sticking around for a bit. i don't feel there's any expectation financially, but its going to be interesting to see how this plays out come next year where she might have to make some tough decisions in terms of her living situation. Stay tuned.
 

Zow

Footballguy
Nothing exciting to report. I guess its approaching about 5 months. Its been a fun summer and we have a couple of trips (nashville and costa rica) scheduled. i think this one is sticking around for a bit. i don't feel there's any expectation financially, but its going to be interesting to see how this plays out come next year where she might have to make some tough decisions in terms of her living situation. Stay tuned.
Good update!
 

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