New England and Josh Gordon (1 Viewer)

[Soulfly3]

Yes, I know threads exist about a potential trade, etc.

But I want to keep this focused on New England.

What reason would there be for NE not to strongly pursue Gordon? Suspension is obv a MAJOR concern... but doesnt BB love those types of situations, or would Hernandez have changed this thinking?

NE needs a Gordon type guy... and he's the only one available

 

[Shutout]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

 

[Isotopes]

Have the Browns said he is available?

 

[Futz]

Not all troublemakers make the kind of trouble that Hernandez did. New England probably doesn't win their championships without taking risks so I don't buy the argument that they would be worried about image in lieu of winning.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Have the Browns said he is available?

NFL "insiders" like the talking heads on the Sunday shows seem to think he is available. Joe Thomas-LT said everyone on that team is tradable right now.

 

[Isotopes]

I just can't see how Cleveland can possibly make a deal to move Gordon now........I read the Joe Thomas quote, but that doesn't make me think another trade is gonna help in Cleveland.

 

[Shutout]

Not all troublemakers make the kind of trouble that Hernandez did. New England probably doesn't win their championships without taking risks so I don't buy the argument that they would be worried about image in lieu of winning.

Yeah but very very few players that you are willing to trade for are one mishap away from being suspended for a year either. That is the part I don't think the Pats would ultimately sit eaisly with and be subject to should it come to be.

 

[Soulfly3]

Not all troublemakers make the kind of trouble that Hernandez did. New England probably doesn't win their championships without taking risks so I don't buy the argument that they would be worried about image in lieu of winning.

Yeah but very very few players that you are willing to trade for are one mishap away from being suspended for a year either. That is the part I don't think the Pats would ultimately sit eaisly with and be subject to should it come to be.

Say CLE wants a 2nd or 3rd rounder... which they probably do.

What percentage of 2/3 rnd players are busts anyways?

So risk really isnt THAT huge a factor - if the kid has a legit shot to win things, he'd be less likely to do dumb things.

If he stays clean - you have a legit WR1... if he doesnt, he sits an year and comes back... or busts.

 

[Futz]

Not all troublemakers make the kind of trouble that Hernandez did. New England probably doesn't win their championships without taking risks so I don't buy the argument that they would be worried about image in lieu of winning.

Yeah but very very few players that you are willing to trade for are one mishap away from being suspended for a year either. That is the part I don't think the Pats would ultimately sit eaisly with and be subject to should it come to be.

True, but WR1s at the age of 22 don't grow on trees and New England has always acted as though their 'culture' is a cure all. They would gladly take a risk if the price was right. They will just trade for 37 more picks if it doesn't work out.

 

[LawFitz]

They will just trade for 37 more picks if it doesn't work out.

Exactly. NE (and SF & Bal) always seems to have extra picks. Why not give up a 2nd rounder for this guy when you take the shotgun approach every year anyway? That said, I think the bidding is going to push into the first round if a deal is to get done this week. He looked too damn good last game.

 

[Shutout]

Not all troublemakers make the kind of trouble that Hernandez did. New England probably doesn't win their championships without taking risks so I don't buy the argument that they would be worried about image in lieu of winning.

Yeah but very very few players that you are willing to trade for are one mishap away from being suspended for a year either. That is the part I don't think the Pats would ultimately sit eaisly with and be subject to should it come to be.

Say CLE wants a 2nd or 3rd rounder... which they probably do.

What percentage of 2/3 rnd players are busts anyways?

So risk really isnt THAT huge a factor - if the kid has a legit shot to win things, he'd be less likely to do dumb things.

If he stays clean - you have a legit WR1... if he doesnt, he sits an year and comes back... or busts.

I think you & Futz have a little too much wishful thinking going on. I'd like to see it (believe me, as a fantasy owner, I'd LIKE to see it) but I think those 2/3rd round draft picks you're tossing out there like "no big deal" are a MUCH bigger deal to real-life NFL teams. And that's just half this story (or a third). IF you traded for him, you have to teach him the system. THe NFL isn't sandlot football where you say "all y'all go deep". Brady is a pretty demanding guy for precision in route running. The other elephant in the room is Gordon is a two time in two years known drug test failure. I know everything could be fine but everything could also be NOT fine.

Can you imagine the questioning the Pats would get if they signed him and the bashing they would get if they sign him and a month from now their draft pick is gone and the player is sitting out a year? The Pats take chances (and some would say too many) but they play the "pick-ups for peanuts" game. If the Browns want to deal him for a 6th or something then, sure, the Pats are at the top of the list. But if the Brown want a 2nd or some players or something, then I think the Pats are going to say "well, for the last decade, Tom has made the WR, not the other way around.."

 

[Englishteacher]

Just throwing it out there... Kenbrell Thompkins has 7 arrests on his record and they brought him in.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Just throwing it out there... Kenbrell Thompkins has 7 arrests on his record and they brought him in.

They've got almost nothing invested in him. Zero risk.

 

[Soulfly3]

He's going to end up at a solid, solid team.

 

[Banger]

Just throwing it out there... Kenbrell Thompkins has 7 arrests on his record and they brought him in.

as a UDFA and I don't know that any were very recent. Gordon finished his suspension this past week from failing a test in the summer. It's one thing to take a risk on a guy but pay nothing but when you are talking real draft picks (potentially high ones) it changes the analysis.

 

[Soulfly3]

Thing is, a team like NE NEEDS a wr like Gordon.

Gronk is coming back, sure... but noone wins a SB because of a TE. They need that extra cog... and this cog has top 5 potential THIS SEASON alone with Brady throwing to him.

Not only that, it opens the field for Gronk too.

I get the "risk". it's A LOT. But damn... BB loves to look like a genius on moves like this, that pan out

 

[shader]

Not all troublemakers make the kind of trouble that Hernandez did. New England probably doesn't win their championships without taking risks so I don't buy the argument that they would be worried about image in lieu of winning.

Yeah but very very few players that you are willing to trade for are one mishap away from being suspended for a year either. That is the part I don't think the Pats would ultimately sit eaisly with and be subject to should it come to be.

Say CLE wants a 2nd or 3rd rounder... which they probably do.

What percentage of 2/3 rnd players are busts anyways?

So risk really isnt THAT huge a factor - if the kid has a legit shot to win things, he'd be less likely to do dumb things.

If he stays clean - you have a legit WR1... if he doesnt, he sits an year and comes back... or busts.

I think you & Futz have a little too much wishful thinking going on. I'd like to see it (believe me, as a fantasy owner, I'd LIKE to see it) but I think those 2/3rd round draft picks you're tossing out there like "no big deal" are a MUCH bigger deal to real-life NFL teams. And that's just half this story (or a third). IF you traded for him, you have to teach him the system. THe NFL isn't sandlot football where you say "all y'all go deep". Brady is a pretty demanding guy for precision in route running. The other elephant in the room is Gordon is a two time in two years known drug test failure. I know everything could be fine but everything could also be NOT fine.

Can you imagine the questioning the Pats would get if they signed him and the bashing they would get if they sign him and a month from now their draft pick is gone and the player is sitting out a year? The Pats take chances (and some would say too many) but they play the "pick-ups for peanuts" game. If the Browns want to deal him for a 6th or something then, sure, the Pats are at the top of the list. But if the Brown want a 2nd or some players or something, then I think the Pats are going to say "well, for the last decade, Tom has made the WR, not the other way around.."

It's interesting that the Colts new GM is beginning to challenge that long-held belief that draft picks are like gold. A 2nd round pick is important, but you could draft wide receivers in the second round 20 times and not come up with a WR with as much talent as Gordon. There is the obvious risk involved, but if Cleveland trades Gordon it will be just a catastrophic mistake.

 

[Banger]

I doubt it will happen because I think that the Browns will want his perceived value based on his talent and the leagues other GMs see "1 year suspension" in flashing neon so will want to pay a steep discount to his talent. I think the chasm will be too wide.

 

[RevDawg]

Does the relationship between Lombardi and BB come into play here at all?

 

[Hu-Tang Clan]

Cleveland's GM Lombardi and Belichick are buddies too so maybe they get something done.

 

[Run It Up]

Id rather they went after Haden.

 

[captain_amazing]

Are there rumors of this potentially happening? Or is it speculation base on the current situations in NE and CLE?

I personally don't see this happening. The Pats want to work on grooming their current rookie WRs, which means going through their current growing pains. Their WR group right now can do it all - short, middle, deep. They just need to work on becoming more consistent with their reads, their route running, and their catching. From the small sample of the last three games, everything seems to point to a steady - but slow - improvement with the rookies.

If the Pats thought that, right now, one of the rookies wasn't going to pane out at all, I could see them possibly looking to bring in another young WR. But, I think it's much more likely they go find themselves a vet who can provide some on-field reliability and off-field mentoring for their young WRs while they develop and improve.

 

[Azhais]

Does the relationship between Lombardi and BB come into play here at all?

Eagerly awaiting a Gordon for Mallett trade

 

[MoveToSkypager]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

 

[3optic]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

That may have changed with Hernandez arrest

 

[PatsWillWin]

Never going to happen.

 

[Run It Up]

Dream scenario, Pats trade their 2014 first and second for Haden and Cameron, they can keep Josh Gordon.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

They do it all the time. They still add and draft 'em with no hesitation.

The "character" hype was a media build up not based on reality.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

That may have changed with Hernandez arrest

So when are they going to cut Dennard? Talib? I'm not even going to go down the list. The answer is no. BB obviously likes this strategy, he'll keep it.

 

[SameSongNDance]

Seriously, when has NE ever been risk adverse when it comes to #### like this. The only factor here is price, as NE loves the possible value that goes hand in hand with taking "such a big risks". If they can get Gordon for the right price, they'll hop all over it.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Seriously, when has NE ever been risk adverse when it comes to #### like this.

When it costs a premium draft pick.

The reason NE takes risks on off-the-field-problem guys is because the off-the-field problems usually make them extremely cheap. Gordon is an off-the-field-problem guy who will likely cost around a 2nd round pick. There's a 0% chance of this happening, and it's not because of moral issues, it's because of the pick.

Not to mention the last thing this team needs is another guy who has to get to know the system, get in sync with Brady re: options, etc. They're 3-0 with three of their best offensive players on the sideline, they're fine.

 

[Drinkin Buddy]

Patriots certainly have a top front office. The move from Welker to Amendola was baffling. Chemistry is something you can't replace.

They have made a ton of mistakes drafting skill players:

2nd - Vereen (we'll see)
3rd - ridley (we'll see)
3rd - Price (out of the league)
2nd - Gronk (stud when healthy)
4th - Hernandez (oops forgot to do our homework)
3rd - B. Tate (junky returner)
7th - Edelman (good year so far)
5th - Slater (gone)
1st - Maroney (bust)
2nd - Chad Jackson (bust)
3rd - TE Thomas (junk)
4th - RB Mills (who?)
1st - TE Watson (good player, not worth a 1st)
2nd - WR Bethel Johnson (bust)

I would think trading a 2nd for Gordon would be wise for New England cause they certainly haven't used their picks very well at drafting skill players.

 

[PatsWillWin]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

That may have changed with Hernandez arrest

So when are they going to cut Dennard? Talib? I'm not even going to go down the list. The answer is no. BB obviously likes this strategy, he'll keep it.

It doesn't cost a 2nd round pick to not cut Dennard or Talib. Irrelevant.

 

[tdhartis]

I don't see this trade taking flight, but if it magically does happen then I don't see it is an immediate good thing fantasy wise. New England's offense is known to be one of the more complicated systems in the NFL, and there will definitely be a significant acclimation period before he is even in a situation to take a noteworthy number of snaps. I remember when Chad Johnson first went to NE people had high hopes and he barely saw the field for the first half of his season due to his problems adapting to their system and playbook.

Also, take this for what it's worth but a good friend of mine in college was close friends with Josh at Lamar in Houston, and he's been talking Gordon up since the day he was taken in the supplemental draft. He has nothing but good things to say about him other than that Josh is one of the least intelligent people he's ever met. That was the only thing he thought might hold Gordon back from making it big on the next level. I know his wonderlic says otherwise, but we've seen him make questionable decisions in his professional career so far, and I think it's safe to say he hasn't been really tested when it comes to intricate offensive schemes. If nothing else it's a legitamite concern when thinking about him jumping to any other team part way into the season.

Pair the above with the fact that NE could conceivably have Gronk and Amendola back soon who have been through years and/or camp with the team and would likely draw the majority of targets, and I don't think it would be the most ideal situation for him to land in even if it initially sounds good in theory. I'd rather see him go to the likes of Baltimore, San Diego, or Carolina.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

That may have changed with Hernandez arrest

So when are they going to cut Dennard? Talib? I'm not even going to go down the list. The answer is no. BB obviously likes this strategy, he'll keep it.

It doesn't cost a 2nd round pick to not cut Dennard or Talib. Irrelevant.

It's relevant. We aren't talking about the cost to acquire Gordon. We are talking about if BB is willing to roster him just based on his behavior. I agree that he'd rather not pay much for him since he has risk, but that's not the the original point was.

 

[RBM]

No chance, close it up.

 

[Tool]

Patriots certainly have a top front office. The move from Welker to Amendola was baffling. Chemistry is something you can't replace.

They have made a ton of mistakes drafting skill players:

2nd - Vereen (we'll see)

3rd - ridley (we'll see)

3rd - Price (out of the league)

2nd - Gronk (stud when healthy)

4th - Hernandez (oops forgot to do our homework)

3rd - B. Tate (junky returner)

7th - Edelman (good year so far)

5th - Slater (gone)

1st - Maroney (bust)

2nd - Chad Jackson (bust)

3rd - TE Thomas (junk)

4th - RB Mills (who?)

1st - TE Watson (good player, not worth a 1st)

2nd - WR Bethel Johnson (bust)

I would think trading a 2nd for Gordon would be wise for New England cause they certainly haven't used their picks very well at drafting skill players.

For making so many mistakes, things seem to have worked out pretty well for them. List any teams draft picks and i'm sure you'd find a similar wasteland.

 

[T with T]

CLE is not gonna trade Gordon you kiddin.... wake up guys Gordon is stayin in cle.

 

[msudaisy26]

The Patriots will only do it if they great value, if the rest of the league is shy about giving a 2nd rounder for this guy and the Patriots can get him for a 3rd hey will do it. You also have to think the Patriots would ask the Browns to talk to the kid before they pulled the deal, and I am sure they would treat it like the draft interviews and see how likely they think it is he will get into trouble again.

 

[msudaisy26]

Patriots certainly have a top front office. The move from Welker to Amendola was baffling. Chemistry is something you can't replace.

They have made a ton of mistakes drafting skill players:

2nd - Vereen (we'll see)

3rd - ridley (we'll see)

3rd - Price (out of the league)

2nd - Gronk (stud when healthy)

4th - Hernandez (oops forgot to do our homework)

3rd - B. Tate (junky returner)

7th - Edelman (good year so far)

5th - Slater (gone)

1st - Maroney (bust)

2nd - Chad Jackson (bust)

3rd - TE Thomas (junk)

4th - RB Mills (who?)

1st - TE Watson (good player, not worth a 1st)

2nd - WR Bethel Johnson (bust)

I would think trading a 2nd for Gordon would be wise for New England cause they certainly haven't used their picks very well at drafting skill players.

For making so many mistakes, things seem to have worked out pretty well for them. List any teams draft picks and i'm sure you'd find a similar wasteland.

Ya I think this list is a little off, Maroney played 4 years with the team and was average while with the team, they also got a 4th back for him so it is hard to call him a complete bust, also hard to call Slater a bust when he helped on special teams and was a fifth round pick and lets be honest if you hit 4 out of 7 of your draft picks every year you would be the best team in the league. They got decent play out of 7 of those 13 guys and also got picks back for Maroney, Cassell and Branch.

 

[Warrior]

Patriots certainly have a top front office. The move from Welker to Amendola was baffling. Chemistry is something you can't replace.

They have made a ton of mistakes drafting skill players:

2nd - Vereen (we'll see)

3rd - ridley (we'll see)

3rd - Price (out of the league)

2nd - Gronk (stud when healthy)

4th - Hernandez (oops forgot to do our homework)

3rd - B. Tate (junky returner)

7th - Edelman (good year so far)

5th - Slater (gone)

1st - Maroney (bust)

2nd - Chad Jackson (bust)

3rd - TE Thomas (junk)

4th - RB Mills (who?)

1st - TE Watson (good player, not worth a 1st)

2nd - WR Bethel Johnson (bust)

I would think trading a 2nd for Gordon would be wise for New England cause they certainly haven't used their picks very well at drafting skill players.

For making so many mistakes, things seem to have worked out pretty well for them. List any teams draft picks and i'm sure you'd find a similar wasteland.

Because of Tom Brady. Without Brady, those bad draft picks would probably have them as bottom dwellers most years. Though things did line up right for them with Cassel one season, so who knows. That division is usually terrible.

 

[Banger]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

And if they are cheap which Gordon likely would not be.

 

[PatsWillWin]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

That may have changed with Hernandez arrest

So when are they going to cut Dennard? Talib? I'm not even going to go down the list. The answer is no. BB obviously likes this strategy, he'll keep it.

It doesn't cost a 2nd round pick to not cut Dennard or Talib. Irrelevant.

It's relevant. We aren't talking about the cost to acquire Gordon. We are talking about if BB is willing to roster him just based on his behavior. I agree that he'd rather not pay much for him since he has risk, but that's not the the original point was.

Well Belichick can't magically "roster" Gordon without trading for him, so overlooking the cost to acquire him is ignoring the single most significant consideration.

I get that this would be a fantasy wet dream, but that doesn't mean there needs to be a thread on it. This is not a realistic possibility.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Patriots certainly have a top front office. The move from Welker to Amendola was baffling. Chemistry is something you can't replace.

They have made a ton of mistakes drafting skill players:

2nd - Vereen (we'll see)

3rd - ridley (we'll see)

3rd - Price (out of the league)

2nd - Gronk (stud when healthy)

4th - Hernandez (oops forgot to do our homework)

3rd - B. Tate (junky returner)

7th - Edelman (good year so far)

5th - Slater (gone)

1st - Maroney (bust)

2nd - Chad Jackson (bust)

3rd - TE Thomas (junk)

4th - RB Mills (who?)

1st - TE Watson (good player, not worth a 1st)

2nd - WR Bethel Johnson (bust)

I would think trading a 2nd for Gordon would be wise for New England cause they certainly haven't used their picks very well at drafting skill players.

For making so many mistakes, things seem to have worked out pretty well for them. List any teams draft picks and i'm sure you'd find a similar wasteland.

Because of Tom Brady. Without Brady, those bad draft picks would probably have them as bottom dwellers most years. Though things did line up right for them with Cassel one season, so who knows. That division is usually terrible.

If they didn't have Brady, they would have had much better talent to choose from in the draft.

 

[Soulfly3]

CLE is not gonna trade Gordon you kiddin.... wake up guys Gordon is stayin in cle.

I'm a Browns fan, bud.

Step into reality.

Well Belichick can't magically "roster" Gordon without trading for him, so overlooking the cost to acquire him is ignoring the single most significant consideration.

I get that this would be a fantasy wet dream, but that doesn't mean there needs to be a thread on it. This is not a realistic possibility.

I disagree.

It's not liklier than some other options, but I guarantee you NE is feeling this one out.

How many years do you think Brady has left in the tank? You think NE is planning on giving this crop of slum WRs 2-3 years to see where they're at?

Gordon walks into NE as their BEST wr.

 

[mphtrilogy]

I think sf is a perfect fit

 

[MoveToSkypager]

THey went through the Hernandez episode. No way they are taking on a potential malcontent. make sense on the field but way too much image risk.

Look at their roster. BB has shown he's always been willing to take on behavioral risks if they produce. It's undeniable.

That may have changed with Hernandez arrest

So when are they going to cut Dennard? Talib? I'm not even going to go down the list. The answer is no. BB obviously likes this strategy, he'll keep it.

It doesn't cost a 2nd round pick to not cut Dennard or Talib. Irrelevant.

It's relevant. We aren't talking about the cost to acquire Gordon. We are talking about if BB is willing to roster him just based on his behavior. I agree that he'd rather not pay much for him since he has risk, but that's not the the original point was.

Well Belichick can't magically "roster" Gordon without trading for him, so overlooking the cost to acquire him is ignoring the single most significant consideration.

I get that this would be a fantasy wet dream, but that doesn't mean there needs to be a thread on it. This is not a realistic possibility.

It's not my fault I was staying on topic.

 

[Run It Up]

It's not my fault I was staying on topic.

You should know better .

 

[Franknbeans]

the Pats are too cheap to make this happen

 

[thecardiackid]

As a browns fan I hate to say it, but any NFL team that comes to the table w/ a 2nd rounder, and I'd be shocked if he didn't get moved. That said, I hope he keeps his s##t together off the field and he's our version of AJ (AJ or Green) for the next 5+ years. (once we manage to find a *franchise* qb)