New Orleans Saints @ Seattle Seahawks Playoff Thread (1 Viewer)

[Statorama]

I'll be the first to admit I'm biased, since I want an NFC Championship Game at the Stick. But I don't understand how we got to the point where it would "take a miracle" for a HOF QB backed by a solid (albeit injured!) defense to win this game. I would have thought the line would be Seattle -5. I'm surprised to see it over a TD. Of course, I thought the Saints would give them a game back on that Monday Night affair and they didn't, but still, this is Drew Brees we're talking about.

They didn't exactly dominate a relatively ordinary Eagles team, and this Seattle team is far from ordinary.

In addition to the defense, Brees has been nursing a sore hand for most of the last month.

Saints are going to need some bounces going their way in order to win. No shame in admitting that.

 

[zoonation]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

 

[gianmarco]

Brees played a horrendous game in that first Seahawks game, and didn't look much better in the first half of the Eagles game. If that's the QB play the Saints get, it's going to be a blowout by the Seahawks again. If not, though, this should be a tremendous game to watch.

If Keenan Lewis is still out, Seahawks by 14 and the game is over early. If he's back, I think this game is decided by a 4th quarter score.

 

[Statorama]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

 

[CapnJB]

Bleh... first full week of work since mid-December. This week is going to drag on forever.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Actually at this point the Saints D getting TOs would be a miracle. I mean like a real miracle, like St. Joan of Arc actually reaches down and personally deflects a ball into a DB's hands. Or the kind of miracle where you haven't studied for an exam and the school's pipes burst the morning of the test.

Still the defense has to win this. They are a legit top-5 defense now, they just don't get TOs or scores. The only way this works is if they hold Wilson and Lynch in check.

Lewis 100% absolutely has to play, or else I put their chances down to ~5%. He still hasn't been cleared and it's a Saturday game.

They have to run it 40+ times. No strip and score or the 2-INT business for Brees, none of that.

We know what it's like for a team to come into our building and just be overwhelmed by the energy. The Saints are the best team in the league in the Dome, it feels like invincibility, which is powerful and that's what they have. So if you're an opponent playing the Saints in the Dome, what do you do? You check it down, and keep the score low. I don't think the Saints will manage a big early lead; the best hope for success is if they come out of the 1st half with a low total score, like the 7-6 number we saw vs CAR & PHI. The script has been flipped on this team, no high scoring hijinks will be forthcoming. Basically the only hope for success is to beat Seattle at their game.

 

[mad sweeney]

the Cards were playing for their playoff lives.

Hmmm, as are the Saints. Interesting.

The Saints are true underdogs in this game. It'll take a miracle, for sure, to beat The NFC's best team (in their den no less)

The key in my opinion is for the Saints to get on top early and force Seattle to play from behind. Get that crowd out of the game early.

That doesn't really happen. Even when they were down 21-0 to Tampa in mid-season it didn't happen. It certainly won't happen in a playoff game.

 

[Doug B]

Actually at this point the Saints D getting TOs would be a miracle. I mean like a real miracle, like St. Joan of Arc Buddy Diliberto or Hap Glaudi actually reaches down and personally deflects a ball into a DB's hands.

 

[Henry Ford]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Actually at this point the Saints D getting TOs would be a miracle. I mean like a real miracle, like St. Joan of Arc actually reaches down and personally deflects a ball into a DB's hands. Or the kind of miracle where you haven't studied for an exam and the school's pipes burst the morning of the test.

Still the defense has to win this. They are a legit top-5 defense now, they just don't get TOs or scores. The only way this works is if they hold Wilson and Lynch in check.

Lewis 100% absolutely has to play, or else I put their chances down to ~5%. He still hasn't been cleared and it's a Saturday game.

They have to run it 40+ times. No strip and score or the 2-INT business for Brees, none of that.

We know what it's like for a team to come into our building and just be overwhelmed by the energy. The Saints are the best team in the league in the Dome, it feels like invincibility, which is powerful and that's what they have. So if you're an opponent playing the Saints in the Dome, what do you do? You check it down, and keep the score low. I don't think the Saints will manage a big early lead; the best hope for success is if they come out of the 1st half with a low total score, like the 7-6 number we saw vs CAR & PHI. The script has been flipped on this team, no high scoring hijinks will be forthcoming. Basically the only hope for success is to beat Seattle at their game.

I think that's true only in the sense that the Seattle game is defense and being able to run the ball. Obviously, the Saints need to do that - but I don't think that precludes a high-scoring affair. Drew's game, at its best, is a series of long, drawn-out drives using short passes punctuated by the home run ball at opportune times. I don't think that's out of the question on Saturday.

 

[Henry Ford]

the Cards were playing for their playoff lives.

Hmmm, as are the Saints. Interesting.

The Saints are true underdogs in this game. It'll take a miracle, for sure, to beat The NFC's best team (in their den no less)

The key in my opinion is for the Saints to get on top early and force Seattle to play from behind. Get that crowd out of the game early.

That doesn't really happen. Even when they were down 21-0 to Tampa in mid-season it didn't happen. It certainly won't happen in a playoff game.

Yeah, I don't think anyone who thinks the Saints can get the crowd out of the game really watches much Seattle football.

 

[Doug B]

Drew's game, at its best, is a series of long, drawn-out drives using short passes punctuated by the home run ball at opportune times. I don't think that's out of the question on Saturday.

The home-run ball (40+ yds) might work better for the Saints once Kenny Still better incorporates the pro game. Against Seattle, I really hope the Saints sit on that page of the playbook. Consider 5-10 yd gains a massive win and be patient.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Did the Saints win the Super Bowl recently? You guys really don't mention that enough.

 

[Doug B]

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Did the Saints win the Super Bowl recently? You guys really don't mention that enough.

Stat was referencing Jets-Colts '69

 

[Doug B]

Bleh... first full week of work since mid-December. This week is going to drag on forever.

Wish Mr. Miyagi could come in, lay hands on everyone, and get this thing on during a MNF Playoff Special

 

[Doug B]

SR.com post about Saints' facility crew painting the Seahawks logo on the Metairie practice field.

 

[Henry Ford]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Did the Saints win the Super Bowl recently? You guys really don't mention that enough.

Pretty sure Super Bowl III was awhile ago. You're extremely sensitive about this.

And, again, you are the only one bringing up the Saints' Super Bowl win. Is this some sort of weird pre-emptive strike? Like, now that you've mentioned it thirty times, if a single Saints fan ever brings it up you can scream out "I TOLD YOU THEY DON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT!"

 

[mad sweeney]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Did the Saints win the Super Bowl recently? You guys really don't mention that enough.

Pretty sure Super Bowl III was awhile ago. You're extremely sensitive about this.

And, again, you are the only one bringing up the Saints' Super Bowl win. Is this some sort of weird pre-emptive strike? Like, now that you've mentioned it thirty times, if a single Saints fan ever brings it up you can scream out "I TOLD YOU THEY DON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT!"

In fairness, one of the favorite things to say about the Seahawks is that they can't talk about anything since they've never won a SB. Might not be the Saints fans that say it, but it'll be said repeatedly throughout this and any other Seahawks thread until they do. And then it'll be "act like you've been there before" even though the same people that say it would likely be the ones dishing out the first insult.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Did the Saints win the Super Bowl recently? You guys really don't mention that enough.

Pretty sure Super Bowl III was awhile ago. You're extremely sensitive about this.

And, again, you are the only one bringing up the Saints' Super Bowl win. Is this some sort of weird pre-emptive strike? Like, now that you've mentioned it thirty times, if a single Saints fan ever brings it up you can scream out "I TOLD YOU THEY DON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT!"

I plan to out-shtick Statorama, bear with me.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

the Cards were playing for their playoff lives.

Hmmm, as are the Saints. Interesting.

The Saints are true underdogs in this game. It'll take a miracle, for sure, to beat The NFC's best team (in their den no less)

The key in my opinion is for the Saints to get on top early and force Seattle to play from behind. Get that crowd out of the game early.

That doesn't really happen. Even when they were down 21-0 to Tampa in mid-season it didn't happen. It certainly won't happen in a playoff game.

And I 100% agree with that. Settled.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As much as I hate the sea chumps (well mostly the obnoxious ITS), the Saints need a miracle. They were so thoroughly dominated in the last game in every way that I don't know where you look to even make an argument that they have a chance. They got pounded. This is Drago vs. Apollo.

Add to that how incredibly banged up the Saints are. But there's a reason why they play the games, otherwise they would have just handed the trophy to the Colts in SB III. A pick six, a couple of fumbles go the right way....who knows, Saints might have a chance.

Did the Saints win the Super Bowl recently? You guys really don't mention that enough.

Pretty sure Super Bowl III was awhile ago. You're extremely sensitive about this.

And, again, you are the only one bringing up the Saints' Super Bowl win. Is this some sort of weird pre-emptive strike? Like, now that you've mentioned it thirty times, if a single Saints fan ever brings it up you can scream out "I TOLD YOU THEY DON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT!"

In fairness, one of the favorite things to say about the Seahawks is that they can't talk about anything since they've never won a SB. Might not be the Saints fans that say it, but it'll be said repeatedly throughout this and any other Seahawks thread until they do. And then it'll be "act like you've been there before" even though the same people that say it would likely be the ones dishing out the first insult.

Tell you the truth it might actually be in the Seahawks' favor - they have the hunger and the fans will be willing them forward no matter what happens. If you get the NFCC it will be fantastic when they win it, tremendous unforgettable feeling to win that at home. And if the Saints don't get that miracle somehow, I really will be pulling for Seattle, the franchise and their fans, to beat the living pulp out of San Fran and Panteracats. Good luck.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

SR.com post about Saints' facility crew painting the Seahawks logo on the Metairie practice field.

Love it, picture it, then do it.

SI stoolies letting the cat out the bag though.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Drew's game, at its best, is a series of long, drawn-out drives using short passes punctuated by the home run ball at opportune times. I don't think that's out of the question on Saturday.

The home-run ball (40+ yds) might work better for the Saints once Kenny Still better incorporates the pro game. Against Seattle, I really hope the Saints sit on that page of the playbook. Consider 5-10 yd gains a massive win and be patient.

I agree.

It's not even a Stills thing - but that INT vs PHI was on Stills, I think. Wrong route, you don't do that with Brees. The whole thing is built on trust.

Brees after the game did say he maybe should not have thrown it, but I think he had a clear shot at Stills, he just ducked in instead of sticking with the route.

Brees has absolute liberty to pull up and toss it deep if he sees the play. That's a huge thing for any defense playing the Saints if NO just voluntary withdraws that option. He's going to have to throw it deep on occasion.

Seattle just held Zach Stacy to 15/15/0. That's right, 1.0 yards per carry.

 

[mad sweeney]

Drew's game, at its best, is a series of long, drawn-out drives using short passes punctuated by the home run ball at opportune times. I don't think that's out of the question on Saturday.

The home-run ball (40+ yds) might work better for the Saints once Kenny Still better incorporates the pro game. Against Seattle, I really hope the Saints sit on that page of the playbook. Consider 5-10 yd gains a massive win and be patient.

I agree.

It's not even a Stills thing - but that INT vs PHI was on Stills, I think. Wrong route, you don't do that with Brees. The whole thing is built on trust.

Brees after the game did say he maybe should not have thrown it, but I think he had a clear shot at Stills, he just ducked in instead of sticking with the route.

Brees has absolute liberty to pull up and toss it deep if he sees the play. That's a huge thing for any defense playing the Saints if NO just voluntary withdraws that option. He's going to have to throw it deep on occasion.

Seattle just held Zach Stacy to 15/15/0. That's right, 1.0 yards per carry.

Another rookie play I recall from Stills in that game was late in a half, probably on the last drive but I'm not sure. He had to dive back towards the ball to make a catch and then just laid there until he was touched. He should've caught it and immediately rolled to his left to get out of bounds and stop the clock. I think it had to have been on the final drive or I doubt I'd have remembered it being a big rookie mistake. He may not have actually made it out before being touched but it showed a lack of situational awareness, much like the bad route adjustment on the INT.

 

[Breesisdaman]

Its settled then the Saints might as well forfeit right now and not even bother showing up the Seattle. They don't stand a chance because past performance is always an indicator of future performance.

 

[mad sweeney]

Its settled then the Saints might as well forfeit right now and not even bother showing up the Seattle. They don't stand a chance because past performance is always an indicator of future performance.

Sorry, I was hoping you'd be able to stay away from alcohol all week but it looks like you already started. Shall we pipe in the tears or is just saying sorry good enough for you?

 

[Hooper31]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Proposed Key For the Game: The read option - Seattle successfully running it, or the Saints successfully stopping it.

Did anyone see the stat before the Philly game that the Saints were one of the worst at stopping the read option this year? Something like 36 read option plays against them for a 5.3 yard per play average. I am going to guess that nearly all of that came in the first Seattle game.



This was from an article cited without a link, so I don't know where this comes from.

I freely admit I do not really understand the read option or how it is different from a traditional option offense. I take it maybe the difference is in allowing the QB more freedom to "read" the defense at the line and make a call on his own. Would love to get some education on this.

Anyone have any stats on this viz either NO &/or SEA, running it or stopping it?

Also, I was under the impression that PHI did indeed run it vs NO, especially early, and it sure looked like NO had a lock down on it.

Let's face it, for all the talk about the Saints being relatively weak against the run (Martin/Stacy/Ridley) the Saints have put a clamp down on 1. Forte, 2. Gore, 3. Lynch, and 4th but not least McCoy.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Its settled then the Saints might as well forfeit right now and not even bother showing up the Seattle. They don't stand a chance because past performance is always an indicator of future performance.

Ok Saints ITS.

 

[gianmarco]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

He's been a great fit for this defense. Again, from a record-setting atrocious defense to top 5 in one year isn't an accident. It's amazing to me that there are still comments in this thread that teams like Arizona have a "much better defense" than New Orleans.

The Saints have been this good all year too. 4th in the NFL in yards allowed and 4th in the NFL in ppg allowed. When you consider how potent their offense is and the fact that most teams know this, it's more impressive.

Historically the offense has been so good and the defense so bad that it's not completely surprising. But the defense has outplayed the offense this year, IMO, and Ryan has been a big part of that. The secondary, which has been atrocious in years past, is top notch.

 

[mad sweeney]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

He's been a great fit for this defense. Again, from a record-setting atrocious defense to top 5 in one year isn't an accident. It's amazing to me that there are still comments in this thread that teams like Arizona have a "much better defense" than New Orleans.

The Saints have been this good all year too. 4th in the NFL in yards allowed and 4th in the NFL in ppg allowed. When you consider how potent their offense is and the fact that most teams know this, it's more impressive.

Historically the offense has been so good and the defense so bad that it's not completely surprising. But the defense has outplayed the offense this year, IMO, and Ryan has been a big part of that. The secondary, which has been atrocious in years past, is top notch.

Going from the eye test, especially the last game Seattle played vs each, that statement (AZ better than NO) is eye-poppingly true. Maybe the division rivalry brings out the nasty a little more but their front line seems a different tier than the Saints. Doesn't mean Saints aren't good, especially with AZ's rank as #1 vs run in mind, but there's a difference between 1 and 5. Maybe "much" is too strong, but it's a clear choice that AZ is better in my eyes. And yes, I watched more Saints than AZ since AZ usually plays same time as Sea.

 

[Gadabout]

SR.com post about Saints' facility crew painting the Seahawks logo on the Metairie practice field.

And you know they're gonna be tearing up those 20 piece mixed boxes of Popeyes too.

I also heard that they'll switch up hotels in Seattle instead of staying at the same one they've been staying at.

Whatever it takes.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

SR.com post about Saints' facility crew painting the Seahawks logo on the Metairie practice field.

And you know they're gonna be tearing up those 20 piece mixed boxes of Popeyes too.

I also heard that they'll switch up hotels in Seattle instead of staying at the same one they've been staying at.

Whatever it takes.

They even switched up the chili mac recipe.

 

[Breesisdaman]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

Considering the injuries to Starters: Patrick Robinson. Greer, Vaccaro, then we had all those LBer and Dlinemen go out at the start of the year. Guys who were to be starters like Victor Butler, Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, and Kenyon Coleman all fell to injury and went to IR , Ryan has done a very respectable job mostly with no name players who are now making a name for themselves. He hasn't had the best of luck with his defenses staying healthy through a whole season especially if you add in the timing of injuries to Paris Haralson and Keenan Lewis but we are holding out hope they can play this weekend. If not thats 9 very important defenders that were lost over the course of the season. Next man up.

Last year the Saints were historically bad under Spagnola, this year they are in the upper part of the league in Defense. In fact the defense has out played the offense most games this season. That Seahawks game may have been one of the few exceptions all season long.

I am very happy with Rob Ryan,most Saints fans will agree and I think he was absolutely made a scape goat at Dallas.

 

[Gadabout]

SR.com post about Saints' facility crew painting the Seahawks logo on the Metairie practice field.

And you know they're gonna be tearing up those 20 piece mixed boxes of Popeyes too.

I also heard that they'll switch up hotels in Seattle instead of staying at the same one they've been staying at.

Whatever it takes.

They even switched up the chili mac recipe.

It wouldn't surprise me if they took a field trip to Marie Laveau's grave this week.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

He's been a great fit for this defense. Again, from a record-setting atrocious defense to top 5 in one year isn't an accident. It's amazing to me that there are still comments in this thread that teams like Arizona have a "much better defense" than New Orleans.

The Saints have been this good all year too. 4th in the NFL in yards allowed and 4th in the NFL in ppg allowed. When you consider how potent their offense is and the fact that most teams know this, it's more impressive.

Historically the offense has been so good and the defense so bad that it's not completely surprising. But the defense has outplayed the offense this year, IMO, and Ryan has been a big part of that. The secondary, which has been atrocious in years past, is top notch.

Here's one thing AZ has on NO - takeaways. Saints continue to have problems on this front. It's been a long long long time since they had a TD off a TO.

White had an excellent pick off K'nick that he took to the goal line.... annnnd Kap came in with the late strip, basically everything but a pick-6, does not for bipp.

That AZ-SEA game was crazy, I watched some of that game, the Seahawks had like 4 INTs and 4-5 sacks, I kept thinking "here comes Seattle... ." But AZ's defense was so good against Wilson it was amazing. Again and again they stopped him, they even picked him off. Yes, division rivals, but the Saints have not proved they can do that vs anyone. They almost did vs PHI, but Lewis went out and the story changed. The offense had to hold the ball at the end of the game to win it.

The Saints have had the sort of problem on the road that you used to see from old Mora teams, or maybe traditional Rex Ryan and Buddy Ryan teams - play extremely tough throughout, even dominate (look at the @CAR game, almost 40 mins TOP and lose?), but the offense is overly conservative or can't make a game a two score spread and they give up the late score to lose.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Ryan has done a great job with that defense, his aggressive style seems to fit well there.

I too would say the Cardinals D is better, they just have the better personnel and are as physical as anyone. Rams, Panthers, Cards, and 49ers along with the Seahawks are the five best defenses in the NFL IMO. Maybe the Jets instead of the Rams.

Here is an article from NFL.com on some defensive units around the league.

 

[Gadabout]

We know how the Saints contained Lynch last game. They just need to figure out how to do the same to Wilson, while still containing Lynch. And then we need to score a lot of TDs. That's how you win. No sense in rambling about Arizona and crap that happened in week 5.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ryan has done a great job with that defense, his aggressive style seems to fit well there.

I too would say the Cardinals D is better, they just have the better personnel and are as physical as anyone. Rams, Panthers, Cards, and 49ers along with the Seahawks are the five best defenses in the NFL IMO. Maybe the Jets instead of the Rams.

Here is an article from NFL.com on some defensive units around the league.

Wow, a no. 15 ranking for the Saints.

That must be based on assessment of personnel. (And by the way for FF purposes considering the 7-8 starter quality players that have been lost, this defense might be much better next year when many are back healthy).

I would like to think NO ranks above DET, for starters.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

We know how the Saints contained Lynch last game. They just need to figure out how to do the same to Wilson, while still containing Lynch. And then we need to score a lot of TDs. That's how you win. No sense in rambling about Arizona and crap that happened in week 5.

AZ-SEA happened week 16.

Sorry I'm not going into a game as a fan thinking 'no chance.' SF also beat SEA week 14 but I like the AZ game because it happened in SEA.

If you're going to picture a win, miracle or otherwise, might as well as pick this as one version that could work.

I have completely abandoned the "Brees, Graham & Colston turn on the fireworks and they'll never stop `em" imaginary version.

 

[gianmarco]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

He's been a great fit for this defense. Again, from a record-setting atrocious defense to top 5 in one year isn't an accident. It's amazing to me that there are still comments in this thread that teams like Arizona have a "much better defense" than New Orleans.

The Saints have been this good all year too. 4th in the NFL in yards allowed and 4th in the NFL in ppg allowed. When you consider how potent their offense is and the fact that most teams know this, it's more impressive.

Historically the offense has been so good and the defense so bad that it's not completely surprising. But the defense has outplayed the offense this year, IMO, and Ryan has been a big part of that. The secondary, which has been atrocious in years past, is top notch.

Here's one thing AZ has on NO - takeaways. Saints continue to have problems on this front. It's been a long long long time since they had a TD off a TO.

White had an excellent pick off K'nick that he took to the goal line.... annnnd Kap came in with the late strip, basically everything but a pick-6, does not for bipp.

That AZ-SEA game was crazy, I watched some of that game, the Seahawks had like 4 INTs and 4-5 sacks, I kept thinking "here comes Seattle... ." But AZ's defense was so good against Wilson it was amazing. Again and again they stopped him, they even picked him off. Yes, division rivals, but the Saints have not proved they can do that vs anyone. They almost did vs PHI, but Lewis went out and the story changed. The offense had to hold the ball at the end of the game to win it.

The Saints have had the sort of problem on the road that you used to see from old Mora teams, or maybe traditional Rex Ryan and Buddy Ryan teams - play extremely tough throughout, even dominate (look at the @CAR game, almost 40 mins TOP and lose?), but the offense is overly conservative or can't make a game a two score spread and they give up the late score to lose.

That's exactly my point. This year has been more on the offense disappointing than the defense. In years past, the offense was able to make up for the defensive deficiencies. This year, in their losses, they haven't. NO is averaging < 20 ppg for opposing teams this year. In fact, only 4 teams scored over 20 pts against them all year:

NE scored 30

NYJ scored 26

Seattle scored 34

StL scored 27

Considering the Rams and the Jets are both in the bottom 3rd in the league in scoring, those were just poor games overall and not something that overall gives me much pause. Seattle and NE can obviously put points up on anyone and of course this game is against Seattle again. But, that being said, NO was able to keep the likes of Chicago (2nd), Dallas (5th), and SF (11th) under 20 pts (at Chicago, no less). I don't think it's crazy to think they can do it to Seattle at all.

If you tell me that the defense will hold a team under 20 pts for a game, I normally like our chances with the offense. Unfortunately, there have been 5 games this year where the offense has failed to score 20 points. That can't happen again.

This year, Seattle scored the most against the Saints than any team this year. Similarly, Seattle held the Saints to its lowest scoring game this year as well. I just don't see it being so extreme this game. So if the defense can step up and hold them to 20 pts and the offense can at least get into the teens and keep it close at the end, anything can happen.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Ryan has done a great job with that defense, his aggressive style seems to fit well there.

I too would say the Cardinals D is better, they just have the better personnel and are as physical as anyone. Rams, Panthers, Cards, and 49ers along with the Seahawks are the five best defenses in the NFL IMO. Maybe the Jets instead of the Rams.

Here is an article from NFL.com on some defensive units around the league.

Wow, a no. 15 ranking for the Saints.

That must be based on assessment of personnel. (And by the way for FF purposes considering the 7-8 starter quality players that have been lost, this defense might be much better next year when many are back healthy).

I would like to think NO ranks above DET, for starters.

Detroit is two secondary guys away from being top five IMO, their front four is second only to the Rams probably.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Adam Harstad referenced this article, I pulled it and liked it.

I post it here because there is plenty for Seahawks and Saints fans alike, giving respect to both, but it's also based on data.

To compare teams to past teams that have had success (or failure) in the playoffs, I calculated a league adjusted pass offense and defense based on adjusted net yards per attempt, and also used the simple rating system and team record. One thing that stands out–no team that has won a Super Bowl since 1990 had a league average or worse pass defense in the regular season. We’ve seen teams that were only slightly above average in the regular season have success and get hot. None of those teams, though, were bad defensively against the pass. The two worst defenses in the regular season against the pass (both with ANYA+ scores of 103) were the 2011 Giants and the 1998 Broncos. The Giants had a lot of injuries in the regular season and got healthy at the end of the year. The Broncos had a lot of veterans and relied on a strong offense. The 2013 version of Denver’s team hopes to displace that one, because if Denver wins the title, they will have the worst pass defense to do so (same would be true of Green Bay, Philadelphia, and San Diego).

Here are the ten most similar teams to each playoff team, organized by playoff win percentage of the comparable teams.

It should be no surprise that Seattle fares the best. Dominant pass defense, lots of wins, and a good offense. Four teams on the list won the Super Bowl, easily the most of all playoff teams. Seattle is your favorite and I’m not sure I can add to that.

The next on the list, though, probably does. The Saints cannot win on the road. They will have to win three on the road just to get to an outdoor game in New York. They struggled down the stretch and could not close out big games against New England and Carolina.

So what does it see? They are a very good passing team that is also pretty good defensively against the pass. The Saints have a really good point differential, and a healthy number of wins. Now, this team has secondary injuries, and has to go on the road. I don’t necessarily like the Saints’ chances as a dome team having to win four outdoor games, but I do like their chances more than the general thought about what the Saints can do.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/01/02/nfl-2013-which-teams-fit-the-profile-of-past-super-bowl-winners/

I think the takeaway for me, as a Saints fan, is the combination of an elite QB with a top-10 pass defense. Apparently the quality of the defense is in doubt. I guess based on the results of the last matchup that's understandable.

The article compares the Seahawks to past playoff contenders and finds them comparing most closely to four past Super Bowl winners:

• 96 Packers
• 94 Cowboys
• 2010 Packers
• 2002 Bucs

Same analysis done with the Saints and they compare favorably with two past SB winners:

• 95 Cowboys
• 2005 Steelers

I will point out that of the 12 teams in the 2013 playoff race, the Seahawks finish first as most likely to win the SB, and the Saints finish 2nd. This is based on actual success, past playoff wins by the most comparable past playoff teams for each.

So I hope we all like all that.

 

[Henry Ford]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

Love having him here, hate all the injuries on the defensive side. I think if you've got a full compliment of players in the defense, this defense would be sick. As it is, it's a massive improvement over last year, and the previous few years.

Needs more turnovers, but those are tough to get when you have to cover for weaknesses in the defense due to injuries.

 

[Doug B]

It wouldn't surprise me if they took a field trip to Marie Laveau's grave this week.

Hopefully with a shovel and a few ZipLoc bags in tow

 

[Gadabout]

We know how the Saints contained Lynch last game. They just need to figure out how to do the same to Wilson, while still containing Lynch. And then we need to score a lot of TDs. That's how you win. No sense in rambling about Arizona and crap that happened in week 5.

AZ-SEA happened week 16.

Sorry I'm not going into a game as a fan thinking 'no chance.' SF also beat SEA week 14 but I like the AZ game because it happened in SEA.

If you're going to picture a win, miracle or otherwise, might as well as pick this as one version that could work.

I have completely abandoned the "Brees, Graham & Colston turn on the fireworks and they'll never stop `em" imaginary version.

I'm not thinking 'no chance' either. I don't really know what to think now after Payton called the game we've been wanting him to call for a long time now. Had Keenan not been injured we would have blown Philly to pieces. Now I'm left wondering if the light finally came on inside his head and his ego has depleted. Should that be the case, nobody knows what to expect.

Seattle destroyed us last time. What kind of adjustments do they have to make, if any? Sean is the one who needs to make these adjustments now, and I like us being in that position.

The last Arz/Sea game doesn't tell me much. They're divisional rivals. Arizona has a sick D. Those things happen, kind of like how we struggled on the road against Atlanta and Tampa Bay this year.

Yeah it's gonna be a loud and hostile environment there with a bunch of drunk dudes standing up and yelling. We experienced that last month. The shock value won't be there. Drew said last time that the noise didn't affect the calls much. There were some bounces in that game that could've gone our way but didn't.

Guess it's gonna be a long week.

 

[Henry Ford]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

He's been a great fit for this defense. Again, from a record-setting atrocious defense to top 5 in one year isn't an accident. It's amazing to me that there are still comments in this thread that teams like Arizona have a "much better defense" than New Orleans.

The Saints have been this good all year too. 4th in the NFL in yards allowed and 4th in the NFL in ppg allowed. When you consider how potent their offense is and the fact that most teams know this, it's more impressive.

Historically the offense has been so good and the defense so bad that it's not completely surprising. But the defense has outplayed the offense this year, IMO, and Ryan has been a big part of that. The secondary, which has been atrocious in years past, is top notch.

Here's one thing AZ has on NO - takeaways. Saints continue to have problems on this front. It's been a long long long time since they had a TD off a TO.

White had an excellent pick off K'nick that he took to the goal line.... annnnd Kap came in with the late strip, basically everything but a pick-6, does not for bipp.

That AZ-SEA game was crazy, I watched some of that game, the Seahawks had like 4 INTs and 4-5 sacks, I kept thinking "here comes Seattle... ." But AZ's defense was so good against Wilson it was amazing. Again and again they stopped him, they even picked him off. Yes, division rivals, but the Saints have not proved they can do that vs anyone. They almost did vs PHI, but Lewis went out and the story changed. The offense had to hold the ball at the end of the game to win it.

The Saints have had the sort of problem on the road that you used to see from old Mora teams, or maybe traditional Rex Ryan and Buddy Ryan teams - play extremely tough throughout, even dominate (look at the @CAR game, almost 40 mins TOP and lose?), but the offense is overly conservative or can't make a game a two score spread and they give up the late score to lose.

That's not entirely true. Maybe not the turnovers, but the Saints held multiple opposing QBs under 175 yards passing this year, including Romo and Cam Newton.

 

[Doug B]

Another rookie play I recall from Stills in that game was late in a half, probably on the last drive but I'm not sure. He had to dive back towards the ball to make a catch and then just laid there until he was touched. He should've caught it and immediately rolled to his left to get out of bounds and stop the clock.

That was in the second quarter, with about a minute left. Good memory. Wasted about 25 seconds of game clock.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Would be curious to hear some general thoughts from Saints fans with regard to Ryan as the defensive coordinator. Happy and looking forward to the future with him as your DC? Perhaps happy with him, but not so happy with the current personnel on the defensive side? I'm all over the place with both Ryans. I think they bring a lot of passion to their jobs, but at times I think they are bit delusional with regard to their personnel.

He's been a great fit for this defense. Again, from a record-setting atrocious defense to top 5 in one year isn't an accident. It's amazing to me that there are still comments in this thread that teams like Arizona have a "much better defense" than New Orleans.

The Saints have been this good all year too. 4th in the NFL in yards allowed and 4th in the NFL in ppg allowed. When you consider how potent their offense is and the fact that most teams know this, it's more impressive.

Historically the offense has been so good and the defense so bad that it's not completely surprising. But the defense has outplayed the offense this year, IMO, and Ryan has been a big part of that. The secondary, which has been atrocious in years past, is top notch.

Here's one thing AZ has on NO - takeaways. Saints continue to have problems on this front. It's been a long long long time since they had a TD off a TO.

White had an excellent pick off K'nick that he took to the goal line.... annnnd Kap came in with the late strip, basically everything but a pick-6, does not for bipp.

That AZ-SEA game was crazy, I watched some of that game, the Seahawks had like 4 INTs and 4-5 sacks, I kept thinking "here comes Seattle... ." But AZ's defense was so good against Wilson it was amazing. Again and again they stopped him, they even picked him off. Yes, division rivals, but the Saints have not proved they can do that vs anyone. They almost did vs PHI, but Lewis went out and the story changed. The offense had to hold the ball at the end of the game to win it.

The Saints have had the sort of problem on the road that you used to see from old Mora teams, or maybe traditional Rex Ryan and Buddy Ryan teams - play extremely tough throughout, even dominate (look at the @CAR game, almost 40 mins TOP and lose?), but the offense is overly conservative or can't make a game a two score spread and they give up the late score to lose.

That's not entirely true. Maybe not the turnovers, but the Saints held multiple opposing QBs under 175 yards passing this year, including Romo and Cam Newton.

I like the Saints pass defense a lot and if you notice in that article I posted that's a big deal for SB winners.

I was referring to the overall domination of a game, holding a team to 10 points or less in a win, ie the defense actually winning a game. Oddly enough the Saints did that in one game, vs Arizona in the Dome, but the offense racked up points themselves so it's not like they were really resting on the D there.

Arizona held opponents to 11 points or less 5 times during the year. The defense really won at least three games outright (TB, CAR, SEA) as a result.

The @CAR game could have been that for the Saints, but again the inability to run out the clock and allowing the late score.

 

[gianmarco]

You're right. It's actually uncanny how consistent the defense has been.

In 11 out of 16 games this year, the Saints defense kept opponents scoring anywhere from 13-20 points. Only once did they keep them under 13 pts (Arizona with 7 pts) and only 4 times over 20 pts (I outlined those above).

Not dominant, but I much prefer that than shutting out a few opponents but giving up some big games. This is why I think if the Saints can hold true to that can keep Seattle to ~20 pts, anything can happen. The sad thing is I feel better about the defense doing that than the offense scoring over 20.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You're right. It's actually uncanny how consistent the defense has been.

In 11 out of 16 games this year, the Saints defense kept opponents scoring anywhere from 13-20 points. Only once did they keep them under 13 pts (Arizona with 7 pts) and only 4 times over 20 pts (I outlined those above).

Not dominant, but I much prefer that than shutting out a few opponents but giving up some big games. This is why I think if the Saints can hold true to that can keep Seattle to ~20 pts, anything can happen. The sad thing is I feel better about the defense doing that than the offense scoring over 20.

Well said.

I think the adage the Saints went with was when they hold a team to under 20 points they are almost, 98.9999%, likely to win.

No one foresaw that scoring the >20 points would be the tough part, even on the road.