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New study out Millienials worse off than Boomers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Milkman
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm pretty convinced -- my brother is a school teacher and I have a young niece and nephew -- that this is par for the course.
My nephew, who is brilliant, has trouble being taken academically seriously because he's got a Y chromosome in there.
But that's probably for another thread.
msommer
Footballguy
Maybe it's a way to reduce supply?
America, home to 2% of the world's population and 50% of its lawyers
I don't think law schools want to reduce the supply. But I'm very happy competition is dropping.
oso diablo
Footballguy
wonder if "despite" should be more "because of". didn't see the underlying data, but wondering if extra years in school is the cause of reduced income and net worth, because they have significantly fewer years of work under their belts.
Education - particularly post-graduate education - is a massive play in delayed gratification.
Doug B
Footballguy
Around here, college-age folks that went into HVAC are basically printing their own money. Little to no student debt, and easily earning double what their college-graduate peers earn at the same age (21-25).
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Part of that is a failure of the system they were brought up in. The adults in their lives steered them to college. Once again, Baby Boomers and their infinite idiocy. But, hey, the boomers got rich on all those jacked up college tuitions the millennials paid.
One common trait is Millenials think they're going to change the world in spectacular ways. You can't do that building a house.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Right. You have to wonder how unfulfilled some of these people feel despite being relatively successful from a financial standpoint.
NutterButter
Footballguy
It could certainly be replicated. It's not like the opportunity isn't there. It's just not if people keep making those terrible choices you mentioned. Curious when you were chosing this college and major, were your parents involved in this process and if so, what was their take on where these decisions would lead?
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah I had a buddy that got into HVAC and had a $28/hr job to start 20 years ago. I'm at a great job right now but it's only going to last maybe 10 years. They'll pay like 5k towards my schooling every year so I'm thinking that might be what I get into.......
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Insoxicated
I worked 3 jobs while in college to avoid having student loan debt. I bartended 7p-4a, woke up for classes, then worked at the campus paper between classes. Squeezed in an unpaid internship 3 days a week with a local agency to further myself professionally and get a head start.
How about you?
- a gen x'er who didn't have the benefit of the boomer spoon either but doesn't whine about it.
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msommer
Footballguy
This is where Generation X tells the millenials to stop whining and suggest some viable solutions
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I bought my first home at 24, second one at 28, third one at 32. My daughters have trouble deciding if they want to buy a car at 24. Investing in any kind of property for equity is not even in their mindset. Although they do always have the newest IPhone and tech stuff.
One is in med school, the other has her masters at 23 and now she wants her MBA. So they do like investing in schools.
One is in med school, the other has her masters at 23 and now she wants her MBA. So they do like investing in schools.
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Milkman
Footballguy
It's in this thread but it's getting off topic. I got a 2 year degree while I worked 50 hours a week at a manufacturing plant. I've worked 2 jobs off and on the last 20 years. It's overrated and not sustainable. I wouldn't say I'm rich but I'm doing fine. I have a good job now that will probably take me out of the country at some point when the work is done in this country. I'm thinking 10-15 years but it's hard to say for sure.
I'm concerned for the younger generations not myself. I have a feeling that maybe you can't relate to that.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
Do you think today's students work multiple jobs and fight to keep living costs down through college like we did?
Do you think that has anything to do with the debt?
Zegras11
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
My bio is also anecdotal.
I was born at the end of the baby boom. My Dad was the son of a Dairy farmer and the first in his family to attend college, and subsequently Medical School. My mom, the first in her family to attend college was a nurse. They married, and good Catholics that they were started pumping out kids, and regularly. My older brother is 12 months older and my next brother 10 months younger. A furious pace for a man still in his internship so he worked full time, nights, while doing his internship. We lived in a one bedroom apartment. During my mom's pregnancy with my kid brother she contracted rheumatic fever. The impossibility of looking after two toddlers while pregnant and sick, and with my pops working and doing his internship meant I got fostered out to my grandparents.
My grandfather spoke German, Flemish, and a bit of English. My grandmother spoke German, some English, and Gaelic, her first language. Also in the house was a great grandmother who spoke Gaelic and Flemish only. They were good but hard people. We had indoor plumbing in the kitchen of the house, a pump. They had a radio. I stayed with them until I was 5 when I returned to my parents.
Two months after joining my birth family they moved to the house I would be raised in. Nice, 4,000 sq. ft., suburbs. By then the family had grow some more so naturally I shared a room which I did all my life. Going to school was problematic at first since it was taught in English which I barely spoke having been raised by non-English speakers. Regardless I excelled and by Junior High was in all the advanced classes and was taking classes at Marquette University. I sailed, very successfully, played football, stoned like a maniac, and started working officially on a work permit at 14.
I had to work. My folks made it clear that if I wanted college I would have to pay for it. So I worked the 25 hours a week the State allowed 14 year olds, plus did odd jobs, painting and such to get extra cash. Not a lot of 14 year olds had full time school, football or wrestling practice, and were working 30 hours or more each week.
I thought I would get a football scholarship. I was large, farm boy strong because we were still expected to help out at grandpas, and quick. I had a gift for physical mayhem and was drawing substantial interest from scouts. Then my knee went.
Football and wrestling were now out. I could not pass the physical required by the state to participate in sports my senior year. Fortunately I had done well on the pre SAT's and the SAT's and was a national merit scholar. I was accepted to every school I applied to except Stanford, which put me on their waiting list. Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Notre Dame and the University of Chicago all admitted me, and had some financial aid and scholarships waiting, but not as much as the University of Rochester was offering if I enrolled in Chemical Engineering, so I did. I hated it.
After, I went to the University of Wisconsin. I had to work full time while there. I did not want any debt. I lived in places with roommates to share the cost. One place was a sub-basement. The ceilings were only 4 & a half feet tall and I am over 6 feet tall. I am certain it was not legal housing, but it was what we could afford.
I applied to Law Schools after taking the LSATS on a drunken bet and rocking them. I was accepted at Harvard, Yale, UW, Michigan, among others, but not Stanford. I went to a fourth tier #### ### school in St. Paul because my girlfriend was moving to the Twin Cities and because they offered partial help in a half scholarship. Had I really thought I was intending to complete law school instead of dabbling I might have gone to a real school and accepted some debt. but I really was only running from the adult world at that point. I worked, got by and graduated quite high in my class which was remarkable given I suffered severe injury my second year when on a balcony that collapsed. I was in the hospital for a month preceding and during finals. The hospital bill was over $120,000, a substantial figure in the 80's. (At the time I only had a $10,000 medical insurance policy) I paid off that debt rather than seeking bankruptcy protection. I was raised to pay my bills and those Doctors earned their keep.
Up to this point in my life I had only 1 car, a 1966 Dodge Polaris Station wagon I had won in a poker game. It had no floorboards anymore, no driver's side window, and no dash lights. I also had a Honda 360 T motorcycle for a few months.
Up to that point in my life I did not live alone, I rarely had transportation, no T.V., and had worked full time nearly continuously. I did not frost my fair, wax my chest, tan, or believe that there were jobs I would not do. I had shined shoes, swabbed urinals, dug fence posts wholes through a swamp. I shoveled stables, worked landscaping and construction, and had a painting company. I did not have a cell phone (not really invented yet except in their most rudimentary forms). I did not travel except by hitch hiking. I did not have cable T.V. I did not shop at designer stores, and I ate, primarily, generic food from the supermarket and whatever I could buy from the farmer's market. (When they are packing up at the end of the day they will cut prices drastically so as to not have to reload the stuff in their trucks.)
As a young attorney I supplemented my income working at a porn video store, a garden center, and by teaching at the community college. These were not a series of jobs, but jobs I held all at the same time. I sacrificed things many take for granted. No T.V., no cable T.V., small ####ty apartments, very cheap car, and no travel.
When it came time to buy a place I bought it in cash, no loan. It was not much, a fixer-upper townhouse. I fixed it up and sold it for a nice profit. That profit and money saved bought me the house I live in now. No mortgage, beyond the median price for the area, but nothing special.
I now own a farm, my home, a piece of property up in the mountains, all paid for. I have a bit over a million set aside for retirement and have put $200,000 aside for my daughter for school or what not.
Several times I have turned down offers of private practice, offers that would be far more lucrative than the public service I choose. I did all right so far, nothing special, but I have been careful with money. I would be better situated now but I have financially cared for my older brother for a dozen years now. He is in a care facility.
I do not lament my life, I have a hot wife, a great kid, a nice home and good friends. I do not look down on those of my generation or other generations who have made different choices. I do note, however, that there are choices and expectations both of which need to be managed. The school debt of grads lately is ridiculous. Some of it is on disproportionate inflation in the charges (not the costs but the charges for) education, but part is also do to lifestyle choices.
I hope the generations find solutions each fitting their needs. I do believe that blaming the preceding generation is a fools game. Each preceding generation had a generation that preceded it leaving legacies of war, suspicion, pollution, and politcal and economic uncertainty. The choices are work and sacrifice or #####ing, politically or otherwise. #####ing does not create wealth. Political redistribution of static amounts of wealth, do not increase wealth, they shift poverty. Work at making the pie bigger, not planning a different way to slice it, at least not that only.
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Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
proninja said:My LinkWelcome to reality, Generation X had this figured out like 20 years ago.
Outstanding, Hale!
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'd wager that the average American, regardless of generation, doesn't have a detailed budget.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I agree with this, and I think it's important to stress this type of education in high school. Vocational training, trade schools, shop class....all of these things have been totally devalued today. For some reason, the trades are wholly undervalued in our high school/teenage education.
Milkman
Footballguy
Crazy story. Thanks for sharing. Do you think everybody is capable of doing that? I understand the view that whining about it isn't going to fix the problem but recognizing that these kids are in terrible spots, that can't be blamed on them entirely, is important. We're going to have an entire generation of unsuccessful people. There's economical and societal costs for ignoring that we will all have to pay.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Anecdotal: It is improving in spite of itself. The system is fully set-up to prep and push everyone to college but kids are starting to see just how expensive college is and become more interested in trades.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
It's even skyrocketing for Millennials. I am an "old Millennial" (1987). When I went to college in 2004, tuition + fees + room and board at my "cheap" local state school, in-state, was somewhere in the ~$14,000 range. A quick internet search says those costs today, 13 years later, are a bit over $22,000. That's a ~57% increase in a short period of time, and this is a cheap school.
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msommer
Footballguy
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Just part of the master plan, buddy. 40+ years or so in the works. 1st was 'made in Japan' and 'made in Mexico'. Once they started demanding a higher wage, it was time for 'made in Korea' and 'made in the Philippines'. Made in anywhere there was cheaper labor. Then came along outsourcing other jobs to any country they hadn't tapped into yet. India, China, etc. Hell, they (corporate America) were probably planning on setting up shop in Iraq but those people are too nuts to go along with it. Once all these people demand higher wages, the jobs come back....at a lower wage.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I believe we need a new paradigm for education. An educational system from the 1700's that served us well then, and through the mid 1900's, is anathema today. It is crazy that we continue to employ it, while watching educational costs outstrip cost of living. We graduate kids today with degrees often not needed in the work force and saddled with unrealistic debt. We tell them this system is the path to success when we know otherwise. This is one of the larger problems facing our country and yet we argue instead over whether black lives matter negates the concept that all lives matter and whether one set of our leaders lies to us more often or severely than the other set when both sets share the commonality of seeking dominion over others rather than service to the populace, no matter their rhetoric. This infinitesimally small rock we ride is a lifeboat. We are all in this together. We have limited resources and it floats on the razors edge of disaster on all sides and yet we argue and rock the boat rather than pulling together. Time to wake up or fail entirely. The smart money is on failure, yet I try to maintain hope.
snellman
Footballguy
I don't want a manufacturing job either, but if I lost my job and that was what I had to do to support my family I would be there until I found one in my field. That is one of the biggest differences between our Gen and the Millenials. Not to sound like a grumpy old man, but a lot of them have an entitlement attitude.
Milkman
Footballguy
They were great jobs when most the country was unionized. Now they pay about $10/hr. The companies spend the billions of dollars saved on stock buy backs instead of just paying their employees enough to buy their product.
NutterButter
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I blame porkbelly and beards
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Oh yeah?
You'll be working for Gen Xers the rest of your life, you should improve your attitude some.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Not especially agreeing, but i think it's hilarious that educating people online (plus labs) is obviously the answer to education @ a tenth the cost, but its the one institution the internet has yet to revolutionize because we are so socialized into our pecking orders that we cant break the ridiculously archaic statussymbol/schooltie/hometeam communal infrastructure.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I think there's an important difference between you and many Millennials - you have a family to support. Millennials marry later, have kids later, purchase homes later, etc. For better or worse, many Millennials were raised not necessarily with a sense of entitlement but a sense of "don't settle" and "follow your dreams". If you don't have the burdens of supporting a family, you can afford - literally and figuratively - to turn down that manufacturing job and hold out for your "dream career".
I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I think it's a reality for many Millennials. Seems like fairly often I'll browse Facebook and see that an old school classmate has basically ####ed off his job and gone on to start some off-the-wall startup or travel the world, or this or that. Part of me looks at it and thinks "maybe this person doesn't know how the world works". But part of me looks at it and is jealous.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Gen Xers party way better than the Millennials too. No one parties like the Disco-creating, cocaine-loving Boomers, but we do our best.
Gen Z are children of Gen X so it makes perfect sense.
hagmania
Footballguy
Millennial here that once thought nothing was fair.
Well, something isn't fair, and that's a lot of folks being told that the way to be successful is to go to a 4 year school (or longer) and find a way to do whatever your heart desires. Lol.
The most important thing I got out of my education is that now I truly understand what trading your time for money means.
I want to be a creator. I'm just trading my time until I have enough saved that I can try my hand at being paid to be creative.
Well, something isn't fair, and that's a lot of folks being told that the way to be successful is to go to a 4 year school (or longer) and find a way to do whatever your heart desires. Lol.
The most important thing I got out of my education is that now I truly understand what trading your time for money means.
I want to be a creator. I'm just trading my time until I have enough saved that I can try my hand at being paid to be creative.
My only issue with online is accountability. Sure, there's been academic fraud in the past. But online education makes it much easier. What's a diploma worth if a school can't be sure the student was ever really there?
hagmania
Footballguy
(Things are a lot fairer if you show some damn patience and trade your time in now.)
Edit: this was meant to be edited into my original post. Millenials are so used to instant feedback, we were the Internet's kids. We were conditioned to think things just happen at the click of a button. We didn't realize how much hard work went into those button presses.
GenZ is a counter-culture to us in that they will be brought up instilled with a good sense that things do happen when you put in the appropriate effort.
Edit: this was meant to be edited into my original post. Millenials are so used to instant feedback, we were the Internet's kids. We were conditioned to think things just happen at the click of a button. We didn't realize how much hard work went into those button presses.
GenZ is a counter-culture to us in that they will be brought up instilled with a good sense that things do happen when you put in the appropriate effort.
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NutterButter
Footballguy
I remember reading in "Here come the robots" that they've tried going the online and technology driven route with education but the results aren't there. I mean some of the most prestigious colleges made their classes available online for free. A ton of people signed up, but few actually finished and its typically the same people that are already super driven and way ahead of the game to begin with. In this day an age, you have to be continuously learning and so few people are up for it. Its one of the reason I love being a programmer in that I know I always me able to distinguish myself from many of my peers by just learning some new technologies throughout the year. The economist has nice feature this week on the need for a paradigm shift in learning if you have access to it.
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The Duff Man
Footballguy
Millenials got a raw deal in that they were spoiled when they were young and now reality has set in and they have no ability to cope.
NutterButter
Footballguy
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