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Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size (Jags, reportedly 4/88 50 guaranteed) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I think it’s almost borderline debateable now.
They know they can win with Foles, can’t imagine why they would discretely see what they could get in return for Wentz. Almost everything has a price.
If he plays well in NO, I gotta think the conversation becomes more real, and if they pull off the upset, the chances of trading Wentz go from like 5-10% to like 30-35%.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
If Foles had played lights out to start the year I'd totally agree. He is clearly clutch in crunch time, he's cool under pressure late in the season. But I find it hard to explain away his early season games coming off a SB MVP award and getting all the starters reps all off-season.
You think there's a 10% shot as of today, that we're trading Wentz? Dude.
I'd say if we beat NO, the chances of trading Wentz go from maybe 2% to 6%.
Manster
Footballguy
It's an interesting position for the eagles...Wentz is far and away more talented, but can't stay on the field.
They aren't trading their franchise qb for the next 15 years. Foles will be elsewhere next year and be an above average quarterback.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Foles is 29 (at least for one more week). Wentz is 26 (just had his birthday). They aren’t that far apart in age. I’m not sure Wentz has 15 years left in his career.
Ok, 12 or 13 years. My point is, they aren't going to let a young, elite QB go to another team. There are only 4 or 5 of them on the planet.
I'd agree with that. I'd say if they make the super bowl 10-12% and if win super bowl 20-25%
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The question becomes what is best for the team. Wentz has gone 23-17 (.575) with a 92.5 passer rating in PHI. The last two years, Foles has gone 10-2 (.833) including 4-0 in the playoffs with a 95.3 passer rating.
It's conceivable that when Wentz' rookie contract is up he could break the bank contract wise and Foles could likely cost them a lot less financially. And as many others have said, they might be able to get a king's ransom for Wentz in a trade.
Not saying that this will happen but IMO it might be something the Eagles could at least look at moving forward, especially if they go on another deep post season run with Foles.
To me, they might be better off paying less and doing just as well with Foles and have a bevy of early draft picks. I guess that depends on how much people believe in Foles and if people think Wentz will turn into a HOFer and is untradeable.
I suppose there's a tiny chance that someone would make Philly an offer that they just couldn't refuse. Like maybe a star player and three picks or something along those lines. But Philly has a golden ticket with Wentz. They know it and the league knows it. The only Wentz stats that matter are the 2017 stats because that's what a healthy Wentz can do. Even an injured Wentz was 7th in the league in passer rating this year.
As I've said many times, Nick Foles is a Philly legend now. And rightfully so. But there's no GM/owner in the league thinking he may be the next Aaron Rodgers. He's going to end up signing a nice contract with someone. Probably in the 20 mill/year range. But everyone's seen his overall body of work. They know what he is. I don't know where he ends up (hopefully not the Giants because I'd love to be able to root for him), but I think he's likely to end up being a steady addition for some team. If his career is any indication, he's going to be streaky. I think he's much more likely to be in the Alex Smith/Andy Dalton range than the Aaron Rodgers/Drew Brees range, though. Which is where Wentz should be for next decade.
EDIT: As I stated a few times before, if Foles manages to win them another Super Bowl, I think the landscape changes and Wentz could possibly be traded. Not because it changes anything about either of their future potential, but because it would become a horrible place for Wentz to have to play if they let Foles walk.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
If Brady retired the Patriots should be all over that.Kwai Chang Caine said:
Or Jaguars.
Basically any team close to championship caliber needing a QB.
Won't happen, but still...
The chiefs traded two first round picks plus a 3rd for Mahomes. Worked out well, but it seems Wentz should get the same value as the pick did.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Alshon Jeffery. Not having him early in the season, as well as no other real deep threat (Smith was gone, Wallace ineffective in the first two games) hurt Fole's ability to stretch the field and hit a lot of different receivers. A lot of short passes to Ertz and Agholor. You can tell Foles has a lot of confidence throwing to Jeffery.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think even those numbers are high. I'm not an Eagles fan but I'd put the odds they trade Wentz away at close to zero.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
That’s what I’ve been trying to say for three weeks now. The organization has to at least take an objective look at the pros and cons of both scenarios.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
You can piss in the wind with these percentage prognostications. Jeff, Howie and Doug are going to decide this at some point. We have Zero Idea where their collective heads are at. And no matter what way any of us want it to go down, we have zero input. It’ll be what it’ll be and hopefully they make the right decision.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
15?? With the way his career has started off and his style of play, I’m hoping he gets 7 awesome years. On the other hand there is no reason to think he won’t morph into that QB that gets better from the pocket with age and relies less on extending plays with his legs. He will need to do that if he wants to be like Brady and Brees and play 15 years or more.
I agree that he'll need to cut down on the running if he wants to be near the top for 15 years. I'd hope he never becomes as immobile as Brees and Brady, though. I think his mobility is a big part of his game. His ability to extend plays and throw on the run. Rodgers and Roithlesberger are good examples of guys with great arms but also a degree of mobility. I'm hoping he ends up with a similar playing style as those guys.
Too many people are too quick to forget just how friggin awesome Wentz was last year. Dude was a legit MVP candidate in year 2, putting up video game numbers. I love Foles, but Wentz' ceiling is MUCH higher. Whether Foles wins a super Bowl or not doesn't matter...you don't trade away that kind of QB ceiling, period.
Foles needs at least average line protection to have any success, and he throws at least one absolutely mind-boggling pick every other game. THIS, the way he's playing RIGHT NOW, is his ceiling....or the equivalent of "good" Eli...immobile but pinpoint accurate from a solid base, smart but not very athletic. Wentz has the upside of an Aaron Rodgers..a guy who can make every throw, but can also pull a Houdini and escape certain sacks. A guy who CAN put a team on his back and literally carry them with his play. Foles might inspire, but Wentz (at his best) can CARRY. And Wentz is a good kid too..he's genuinely liked by his team-mates and seems to have not one selfish bone in his body. Let's not act like the Foles' intangibles are THAT much higher then Wentz's.
Superbowl or not, Foles will be elsewhere, and unless it's the Giants, I'll be cheering him on. 4/90 is my guess, maybe 100 if he gets Philly to another Bowl. Oakland/Vegas is an intriguing fit IMO, but Jacksonville has to be a top consideration.
Foles needs at least average line protection to have any success, and he throws at least one absolutely mind-boggling pick every other game. THIS, the way he's playing RIGHT NOW, is his ceiling....or the equivalent of "good" Eli...immobile but pinpoint accurate from a solid base, smart but not very athletic. Wentz has the upside of an Aaron Rodgers..a guy who can make every throw, but can also pull a Houdini and escape certain sacks. A guy who CAN put a team on his back and literally carry them with his play. Foles might inspire, but Wentz (at his best) can CARRY. And Wentz is a good kid too..he's genuinely liked by his team-mates and seems to have not one selfish bone in his body. Let's not act like the Foles' intangibles are THAT much higher then Wentz's.
Superbowl or not, Foles will be elsewhere, and unless it's the Giants, I'll be cheering him on. 4/90 is my guess, maybe 100 if he gets Philly to another Bowl. Oakland/Vegas is an intriguing fit IMO, but Jacksonville has to be a top consideration.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Did Foles carry the team with 353-3-0 against the Viking in the playoffs last year? Did he pick apart NE with a 373-3-1 line in the SB? Didn't he just shred the Texans for 471-4-1 a few weeks ago?
I don't remember Eli having too many stat lines like that. I think you are underselling how well Foles has done for the Eagles. Wentz blew out his knee one year and broke a vertebrae the next. Wentz has a different skill set and certainly is (was?) more mobile. He didn't look the same this year and who knows if the 2017 pre-injuries Wentz will return?
I also think his contract could be greater than you think. Jimmy G with a lot fewer starts and no playoff experience got a 5-year, $137,500,000 contract with $74,100,000 guaranteed. A lot will depend if a team thinks they are a QB away from being a legit SB contender and if they have cap space.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Furthermore, he basically says you don't trade away a QB with that kind of ceiling.
Isn't the entire point to win a Super Bowl? They prob don't win it all this year, but if they do, wouldn't his ceiling be winning a Super Bowl, consecutively?
I thin you greatly overestimate what GMs around the league think of Foles. I think he'll see 20million per. But he's not going to get paid like a top ten QB. For every one of those games you mention, Foles has crappy games. For every great year he's had, he's had an equally terrible one. Last Sunday, he had one good drive and an overall bad game. I don't think league 'experts' know what to make of him. A healthy Wentz was the league MVP in 13 games last year. Some might feel like Foles is a good fit for the Eagles system, but are unsure how he'll be anywhere else. He's had a few great games over the last two years, but he has a pretty large body of work for GMs to pull from. I'm curious to see if anyone is willing to pay him upper tier QB money.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Wentz has started 40 games and gone 23-17 with a 92.5 passer rating in 1448 attempts.
In Foles time JUST WITH THE EAGLES, he has started 37 games and gone 25-12. His first year he went 1-5, so he’s gone 24-7 since then. He’s thrown 1368 passes with a 94.8 rating.
Sure, Wentz was great last year for the first 3/4 of the season. But he’s failed to finish the season in back to back years. None of us know how healthy he really is and what he will do when he gets back.
In Foles time JUST WITH THE EAGLES, he has started 37 games and gone 25-12. His first year he went 1-5, so he’s gone 24-7 since then. He’s thrown 1368 passes with a 94.8 rating.
Sure, Wentz was great last year for the first 3/4 of the season. But he’s failed to finish the season in back to back years. None of us know how healthy he really is and what he will do when he gets back.
Impressive stat comparison. You want to put any money on which guy signs a bigger contract? I'll even spot you 5 million a year.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
+600 implies like a 14% chance he’s with the Eagles week 1. -1200 is like 94% somewhere else. The bookie pockets everything over 100%, “hypothetically”, while both sides pay each other off. So it really depends on how much action they attract.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why are Eagles fans so willing to downplay Foles’ value as a player and what he’ll get on the open market? I’ve found it kind of strange - I’m not trying to attack them but what’s the mindset here?
If Foles hits the open market he will get paid like a top 10 QB (salarywise)- not because he’s necessarily a top 10 QB but that’s how these contracts work. The next man up gets paid. At one point Matt Stanford and Matt Ryan were each the highest paid QBs - no one thought they were the best QB in the league at the time.
If Foles hits the open market he will get paid like a top 10 QB (salarywise)- not because he’s necessarily a top 10 QB but that’s how these contracts work. The next man up gets paid. At one point Matt Stanford and Matt Ryan were each the highest paid QBs - no one thought they were the best QB in the league at the time.
No one is downplaying Foles. There's this weird thing happening where people think if you realize that Wentz is the Eagles franchise elite quarterback, that means you think Foles sucks. Eagles have the number one and number two QB in their division. That's an awesome luxury to have. The only reason any comparison at all comes up as because some people are suggesting that Foles would be the smarter choice for the Eagles to keep. Even Nick Foles is smart enough to realize that wouldn't be the right choice.
And I do think Foles is going to get paid. I've predicted 20 million a year for three or four years. Kase Keenum was the hot free agent qb last year and he got 18 million per.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Not every eagles fan is downplaying Foles. I sure as hell am not. But I think some camps are really entrenched in their positions. I’m about 60/40 prefer to keep the magic man and trade the injury prone boy wonder for assets and possibly for his own good since Foles’ shadow will be suffocating. I’ll admit I’m risk averse about Wentz moving forward. What I can’t understand is how one guy can’t finish a season but some people are absolutely convinced that the order should be put in to start carving his bust. Meanwhile, the other does nothing but win at the HIGHEST levels and it’s like he’s some lucky stiff who gets hot once in while but you have to have it thrown in your face that he was 1-1 to start the season when the whole team sucked and was fat and lazy from the banquet circuit and Jeffrey was hurt not mention his bad year with Fisher. It’s puzzling. Anarchy posted the stats. Foles is an excellent QB. Does he have Wentz’ physical potential? I don’t think so but I don’t care. Foles has “IT.” it’s plain to see.
But if the brain trust feels Wentz is the better play, I’m not gonna argue with them. I’ll be happy either way (With the caveat that if Wentz never returns to 2017 form and continues to get hurt, then yeah—I’m gonna be upset). I love both QBs and moreover I think they are very fine men of character. Easy to root for and like for sure.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Keenum got $20MM a year and he’s terrible. He wasn’t the hot free agent - that was Cousins who got $30MM. Alex Smith also got $24MM a year.
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Bottom.line is, if a team.signs Foles, they hope they're getting an in-his-prime Eli Manning. If Philly was ever crazy enough to get rid of Wentz, the other team would be hoping they have another Aaron Rodgers. The potential difference between the two is immense.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Keenum signed for $36k for two years. I think Foles will get more than that. Id guess $60k for 3 years. He won't get near Cousins money.
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Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
I agree with you. The key word though is potential. One has proved it and the other hasn’t. Yet...
Wentz most certainly proved it. He was the best quarterback in the league last year. He didn't just have Aaron Rodgers potential, his season was as good as any Aaron Rodgers ever had.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
When Rodgers was Wentz' age, he wasn't even a starter in the league yet sport.
THIS.
And in prime Eli Manning is a heck of a QB to hit the open market.
I can see the argument for going with Foles + picks Wentz brings over just staying with Wentz. I don't agree with it, but I can certainly see it, it's not a crazy notion. I think those in that camp are over-stating the injury risk though. McNabb failed to finish multiple seasons too. It happens.
Someone asked why some Eagles fans are downplaying Foles. We aren't...we think other fans are downplaying Wentz.He certainly wasn't as good this year: the WHOLE TEAM was off. Wentz had no pre-season, lesser line play, no deep threat, and coming off bad knee injury. AND STILL PUT UP GOOD NUMBERS! ...in only his 3rd year. He was a legit MVP candidate just last year. Foles will never sniff MVP
All that said, Foles puts up another good game this week and his contract approaches Cousins
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Rodgers gets hurt alot too. Andrew Luck, too. It happens. You hang on to the elite ones. There's never more than half a dozen of them on the planet at the same time.
hamster_13
Footballguy
How do we know Wentz is elite though? He had one MVP caliber season, just like Derek Carr did. They both were below average this year.JuniorNB said:
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Wentz wasn’t below average this year. He may not have read the field as well as Foles and some of that very well maybe because he really needs two years to recover. Not everyone is Adrian Peterson. He’s flashed elite skills his first and third season. His second season he was the best in the game minus not making the playoffs. I still think it’s a crime that he didn’t win mvp.
I’m not downplaying Wentz. I just see the chemistry with Foles and the way Doug calls games with Foles and the very real worry that Wentz never gets back to 2017 level. That’s why I’m in the camp of trading him but it’s not by much.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Christ I feel like that chick in those Twilight movies my mom and wife loved so much. Edward or Jacob? 
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
You’re a piece of work junior. Ill give ya credit. You are nothing else if not dogged and determined.JuniorNB said:
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Lol
If Wentz' below average year is 70% completion percentage, 21 TDs, 7 interceptions and the league's 7th best quarterback rating, he's going to be a first ballot Hall of famer.
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