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Nick Foles Landing Spot/Contract Size (Jags, reportedly 4/88 50 guaranteed) (2 Viewers)

DocHolliday said:
That Giants OLine needs addressed for any QB to have success.   
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They can use their first rounder there and get the number 1 or 2 lineman available. 

Not sure what cap space is like, but they’ve got the skilled positions in place, freeing money for the line and going all in on the offense would be my move.

 
BassNBrew said:
Wentz kicked ###, but I'd give the decision to Zeno in this slapfest.  I'm not a fan of his posting style, but he brings some good content and brought the numbers to support his stance.
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I'm rather surprised that you don't think Wentz could become Rodgers like with time. 

Or were you not saying that? FWIW it might be unlikely, he needs to stay healthy, but I see a little Steve young, a little Rodgers in Wentz. 

 
ZenoRazon said:
The Philadelphia Eagles would love to have Nick Foles back in 2019, which is a no-brainer considering he is the ultimate insurance policy for Carson Wentz. Philadelphia made it clear Wentz is the franchise quarterback, but also let it be known that won't stop the organization from bringing back Foles.

"We would love to keep Nick Foles," said Eagles Executive Vice President of Football Operations Howie Roseman. "You talk about a guy who we drafted here and we've grown incredibly close with. I don't know a team that wouldn't want to have Nick Foles on their roster.

"Certainly, as we go into the substance of those discussions - we haven't had them yet - but there is no question we love having Nick Foles as an Eagle in Philadelphia and we would love to keep him."
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I’m not sure what else they would say, but fair enough it’s not 100% certain Foles isn’t an Eagle next season but it’s pretty unlikely he will accept backup money to stay there or that they would pay him starters money to stay.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I’m not sure what else they would say, but fair enough it’s not 100% certain Foles isn’t an Eagle next season but it’s pretty unlikely he will accept backup money to stay there or that they would pay him starters money to stay.
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I think you can make two statements here:

1) With very close to 100% certainty, only one of the two of them will be on the roster.

2) With greater than 95% certainty, it will be Wentz.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I’m not sure what else they would say, but fair enough it’s not 100% certain Foles isn’t an Eagle next season but it’s pretty unlikely he will accept backup money to stay there or that they would pay him starters money to stay.
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wife....i like it here and so  do the kids and I would rather you not be out there anymore than you have to, you aren't getting any younger. Money?  Come on, I think we can make ends meet,  I want to stay put.

That is all it would take.

Sometimes there are situations  we just aren't aware of.  Maybe somebody close is dying and the Foles family wants to stay close like they now are? All kinds of reasons to stay where you are. There is a chance Foles doesn't really want a full time job at this stage of his career. Maybe he'd rather be a backup.

 
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ZenoRazon said:
wife....i like it here and so  do the kids and I would rather you not be out there anymore than you have to, you aren't getting any younger. Money?  Come on, I think we can make ends meet,  I want to stay put.

That is all it would take.

Sometimes there are situations  we just aren't aware of.  Maybe somebody close is dying and the Foles family wants to stay close like they now are? All kinds of reasons to stay where you are. There is a chance Foles doesn't really want a full time job at this stage of his career. Maybe he'd rather be a backup.
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How do you know so little of the situation yet come and boast that you know what you're talking about, and suggest things that he already debunked himself????

Foles Last Week:  "Yeah, like I said, I would love to lead a team. The starter thing, leading a team, impacting a locker room ... that's why we play the game, to impact people, to create an atmosphere."

He's not staying as a backup.  Suggesting otherwise is a big reach.  Even for you.

 
Deamon said:
How do you know so little of the situation yet come and boast that you know what you're talking about, and suggest things that he already debunked himself????

Foles Last Week:  "Yeah, like I said, I would love to lead a team. The starter thing, leading a team, impacting a locker room ... that's why we play the game, to impact people, to create an atmosphere."

He's not staying as a backup.  Suggesting otherwise is a big reach.  Even for you.
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Nick Saban....I am not going to coach Alabama, is that clear?  What happened?

Want more?

I do think Foles is leaving, do think he wants his team.  But I also thought there was noway the Niners let Joe Montana go.  No way an obvious goof is our president.

Ripped this off...

Foles continued to talk about how the city has always welcomed him, even back as a rookie, and having the opportunity to play in Philly again, noting it doesn’t happen very often that quarterbacks return to a previous team. He talked about how important it was for him to raise his young daughter in the city, and how she’s a NorthEastern girl.************************

He has talked about this before.  

Daughter (tears in her eyes, lip quivering).....please dad can't we stay I love it here, please, pretty please dad, please.

hmmm?

 
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Deamon said:
How do you know so little of the situation yet come and boast that you know what you're talking about, and suggest things that he already debunked himself????

Foles Last Week:  "Yeah, like I said, I would love to lead a team. The starter thing, leading a team, impacting a locker room ... that's why we play the game, to impact people, to create an atmosphere."

He's not staying as a backup.  Suggesting otherwise is a big reach.  Even for you.
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Foles quote was discussed already, in this thread nonetheless.

 
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ZenoRazon said:
Nick Saban....I am not going to coach Alabama, is that clear?  What happened?

Want more?

I do think Foles is leaving, do think he wants his team.  But I also thought there was noway the Niners let Joe Montana go.  No way an obvious goof is our president.

Ripped this off...

Foles continued to talk about how the city has always welcomed him, even back as a rookie, and having the opportunity to play in Philly again, noting it doesn’t happen very often that quarterbacks return to a previous team. He talked about how important it was for him to raise his young daughter in the city, and how she’s a NorthEastern girl.************************

He has talked about this before.  

Daughter (tears in her eyes, lip quivering).....please dad can't we stay I love it here, please, pretty please dad, please.

hmmm?
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So your argument comes down to "stranger things have happened" and "you never know"?

We could go down this rabbit hole or move forward with what is the overwhelmingly more likely event that he's leaving Philly one way or the other.

The most likely scenario is that Philly exercise it's option for keeping him at $20MM and he buys out of his contract for $2MM - I'd put this possibility at close to 100%. Then either the Eagles franchise tag him and try to trade him or let him walk - my guess is they let him walk because the franchise tag option has some potential landmines (which I already listed).

Where may he end up? Jacksonville seems like the favorite since they are built to win now, they don't necessarily need an elite QB with their defense and running game and could surely use a leader like Foles. The AFC South becomes very intriguing if that happens.
 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
So your argument comes down to "stranger things have happened" and "you never know"?

We could go down this rabbit hole or move forward with what is the overwhelmingly more likely event that he's leaving Philly one way or the other.

The most likely scenario is that Philly exercise it's option for keeping him at $20MM and he buys out of his contract for $2MM - I'd put this possibility at close to 100%. Then either the Eagles franchise tag him and try to trade him or let him walk - my guess is they let him walk because the franchise tag option has some potential landmines (which I already listed).

Where may he end up? Jacksonville seems like the favorite since they are built to win now, they don't necessarily need an elite QB with their defense and running game and could surely use a leader like Foles. The AFC South becomes very intriguing if that happens.
 
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I totally agree, but..........

Let's admit what we have seen in the Nick Foles story is a bit unique.  The guy is thinking retirement, comes off the bench.....SB MVP....wow!  Back to the bench, then......again?

If his family put up a real fight to stay....???

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
....or they can be taken care of for life and future generations.
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I would imagine they already are.  He's made how many millions? 

I raised 4 kids,  making a tiny fraction of what those guys make, how about you? Here I sit set for life (retired) and never came close to a mill a year.

Foles is 30,  he admitted he wasn't FOOTBALL FOOTBALL FOOTBALL whenhe started thinking rertirement. He has talked about his family,  so it's real easy to think just maybe at this stage of his career what makes that family happy could play a role in what he does.

Talking to his wife and how she feels about things would tell all we need to know.

 
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Why do you guys keep feeding him? JuniorNB went back and forth for 2 pages, wtf? 

Let's note his argument that he'll take a $60mm pay cut to back Wentz up bc his daughter might shed some tears and move on. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Why do you guys keep feeding him? JuniorNB went back and forth for 2 pages, wtf? 

Let's note his argument that he'll take a $60mm pay cut to back Wentz up bc his daughter might shed some tears and move on. 
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You shouldn't be so mean to him. He's on your side. He thinks the Eagles should keep Foles and trade Wentz too. People who are dead wrong should support each other.

 
JuniorNB said:
You shouldn't be so mean to him. He's on your side. He thinks the Eagles should keep Foles and trade Wentz too. People who are dead wrong should support each other.
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As a backup to Wentz (see the difference?), from what I've gathered, but I didn't read much of your back and forth with him, tbh. 

And dead wrong is a funny term when the situation hasn't shaken out. If Wentz never wins a Super Bowl, would you have that same mentality?

I laid out the case for keeping Foles pages ago, an extra 3 firsts and $15mm a year of extra cap room, not sure how you can say that is dead wrong. I never said keeping Wentz was dead wrong, hence opinion ≠ fact. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Why do you guys keep feeding him? JuniorNB went back and forth for 2 pages, wtf? 

Let's note his argument that he'll take a $60mm pay cut to back Wentz up bc his daughter might shed some tears and move on. 
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Just as serious as anyone else here, that isn't totally obvious?

Wentz has a legit history of injury, talking HS/NCAA/NFL, this is very real. Do the Eagles really ignore a very real situation?

Dude, feeding him.....????????

 
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ZenoRazon said:
I would imagine they already are.  He's made how many millions? 

I raised 4 kids,  making a tiny fraction of what those guys make, how about you? Here I sit set for life (retired) and never came close to a mill a year.

Foles is 30,  he admitted he wasn't FOOTBALL FOOTBALL FOOTBALL whenhe started thinking rertirement. He has talked about his family,  so it's real easy to think just maybe at this stage of his career what makes that family happy could play a role in what he does.

Talking to his wife and how she feels about things would tell all we need to know.
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For a pro gambler you sure don't know much about odds. I can't think of one player in the history of the league who has turned down millions of dollars to remain a backup. So the odds are very close to zero.

Like people tell their kids, there's a difference between good attention and bad attention.

 
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voiceofunreason said:
You might be the worst poster I've ever seen.

For a pro gambler you sure don't know much about odds. I can't think of one player in the history of the league who has turned down millions of dollars to remain a backup. So the odds are very close to zero.
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I am retired insurance sales, never been a "pro" gambler.  I only play NFL football.

Foles has already talked about retiring from the game, knowing that we have to figure football isn't his everything.  Knowing this we must come to the conclusion he does have other things going on in his life, other concerns.

I made it clear I was talking about his family situation not being a starter/backup a non factor.

My brother passed on a far better gig because his wife simply refused to leave her aging mother,  yes, that sort of thing does happen.

 
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ZenoRazon said:
I am retired insurance sales, never been a "pro" gambler.  I only play NFL football.

Foles has already talked about retiring from the game, knowing that we have to figure football isn't his everything.  Knowing this we must come to the conclusion he does have other things going on in his life, other concerns.

I made it clear I was talking about his family situation not being a starter/backup a non factor.

My brother passed on a far better gig because his wife simply refused to leave her aging mother,  yes, that sort of thing does happen.
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Your brother passed on far better than 20 plus million a year? Lol. Okay bud. 

 
voiceofunreason said:
Your brother passed on far better than 20 plus million a year? Lol. Okay bud. 
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My bro never talked about quitting his job to become a pastor either.

Are you aware of any of this?

"It took a lot more faith to come back and play than it would've to go in the other direction," Foles said. "Either way would've been fine. Either way, I would've trusted in God. I would've done something else and glorified God in that instance.

"The reason I decided to come back is I've loved the game of football since I was a kid, I loved playing sports, I loved being part of a team, and I knew as a person that the more growth I've had and the more opportunity I would have to glorify God and trust in him would be to go back and play football."

The guy was willing to give it all up, so it appears $$$$$$$ isn't his everything.  How much do pastors make?

More.....

In fact, Foles almost quit the NFL to become a pastor but he and his wife prayed about it and decided to give professional football one more shot. And here’s something a lot of the reporters covering this Sunday’s game in Minneapolis have a hard time understanding: Nick Foles ranks being a pastor right up there with being the starting quarterback in the Super Bowl against the New England Patriots.

“A lot of people look at this moment and say, ‘Wow, aren’t you super excited that you made that decision and you’re in the Super Bowl, what if you wouldn’t have?’” Foles said Thursday. “But I look at it this way: It wasn’t a matter of that. I’m grateful to be up here, I’m grateful to have this opportunity to speak and play in this game, but at the same time, if I would have made the other decision my life wouldn’t have been a loss. I would have gone and done something else and glorified God in that instance

Pretty easy to see this is a little different situation with Foles than what we normally see.

 
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fantasycurse42 said:
Can see this getting contentious quickly.
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First, Foles should take the position that, if the Eagles apply the franchise tag, he’ll immediately accept it, putting him under contract for 2019 at roughly $25 million, fully guaranteed.
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I think this is why they will ultimately decide to just let him walk. They would have to hold $25MM in cap space (even if he did not sign it) which would mean they would be operating in a hole during free agency - or worse they actually head into 2019 having to pay their backup QB $25MM if he makes it tough to trade him.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/06/eagles-apparent-tag-and-trade-plan-for-nick-foles-would-violate-the-cba/amp/
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What the article fails to mention is that there's no way to prove the Eagles would be tagging him solely to trade him. If the Eagles tag him, they're on the hook for $25m regardless. So they would obviously have to keep him if no trade came through. 

If the Eagles tag him, they are going to trade him but there's no way to prove that as a violation. I doubt Foles tries either if there's an understanding of where he is going and he has a contract worked out with the new team.

 
I think they franchise him and get more. He and the Eagles know who wants him and where he wants to go. While it's a business, this seems more like an amicable divorce where they both max out.

 
Slider said:
I think they franchise him and get more. He and the Eagles know who wants him and where he wants to go. While it's a business, this seems more like an amicable divorce where they both max out.
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How does he max out under the franchise tag rather than as a free agent? Doesn't seem to compute. 

 
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Insein said:
What the article fails to mention is that there's no way to prove the Eagles would be tagging him solely to trade him. If the Eagles tag him, they're on the hook for $25m regardless. So they would obviously have to keep him if no trade came through. 

If the Eagles tag him, they are going to trade him but there's no way to prove that as a violation. I doubt Foles tries either if there's an understanding of where he is going and he has a contract worked out with the new team.
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This is what I thought but what if they were dumb enough to communicate this to him (which I'm pretty darn sure they're not. That's why Florio brought up texts and communiations)?

 
Slider said:
I think they franchise him and get more. He and the Eagles know who wants him and where he wants to go. While it's a business, this seems more like an amicable divorce where they both max out.
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Curious how a tag and trade is best for Foles as opposed to being an outright FA? That isn't amicable at all, imo.

 
Insein said:
What the article fails to mention is that there's no way to prove the Eagles would be tagging him solely to trade him. If the Eagles tag him, they're on the hook for $25m regardless. So they would obviously have to keep him if no trade came through. 

If the Eagles tag him, they are going to trade him but there's no way to prove that as a violation. I doubt Foles tries either if there's an understanding of where he is going and he has a contract worked out with the new team.
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Sure there is - this isn't a criminal case so there's no "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. The circumstantial evidence would be in Foles' favor and once the Eagles took or made one phone call negotiating a trade for Foles the pendulum swings further. With that said I'm not expecting a legal challenge either.

And as far as Foles being in on it - sure that could happen but it should be obvious he has way more bargaining power on the open market than he would in a tag and trade deal. It's a risky proposition for the Eagles to take this approach because if Foles isn't happy with going to the team trading for him or if no contract can be worked out and teams then back off the Eagles are on the hook.

 
rockaction said:
How does he max out under the franchise tag rather than as a free agent? Doesn't seem to compute. 
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The Eagles get the most and he lets them do it. This guy was about to retire and they picked him up and he elevated himself to a Superbowl MVP able to land a $60 million deal at least. He's super religious and loves the Eagles. What does he gain by not enabling them to get more for him? Nothing!

 
Slider said:
The Eagles get the most and he lets them do it. This guy was about to retire and they picked him up and he elevated himself to a Superbowl MVP able to land a $60 million deal at least. He's super religious and loves the Eagles. What does he gain by not enabling them to get more for him? Nothing!
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Kansas City picked him up after he was released by LA and considering retirement.

How do you not see he has more leverage on the open market than only being able to negotiate with teams willing to meet the Eagles asking price for him? This should be obvious to everyone.

 
Slider said:
The Eagles get the most and he lets them do it. This guy was about to retire and they picked him up and he elevated himself to a Superbowl MVP able to land a $60 million deal at least. He's super religious and loves the Eagles. What does he gain by not enabling them to get more for him? Nothing!
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I get what you're saying now. Okay. Now I see your thought process. He could very well allow it. I don't know what's in the man's heart.  

Just remember $5-10 million a year in your (likely) last free agent contract is a lot to forego, and he's gonna get a Cousins-esque deal on the open market. It's likely to be crazy. That's a lot of donations he could make to churches, religious causes, etc.  

 
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rockaction said:
I get what you're saying now. Okay. Now I see your thought process. He could very well allow it. I don't know what's in the man's heart.  

Just remember $5-10 million a year in your (likely) last free agent contract is a lot to forego, and he's gonna get a Cousins-esque deal on the open market. It's likely to be crazy.  That's a lot of donations he could make to churches, religious causes, etc.  
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If he's franchised and a team trades for him, they redo his deal to exactly what the market bears anyway. He's not going to get less money because the team gives up a 2nd.

 
Slider said:
If he's franchised and a team trades for him, they redo his deal to exactly what the market bears anyway. He's not going to get less money because the team gives up a 2nd.
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If he's franchised the team might do that, or they might want him to "prove it." You know? 

I see what you're saying, but he does stand a lot to lose on faith in the process alone, and sometimes the process is unfair and skewed toward management..

But I know you guys want that first or second.  ;)

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Kansas City picked him up after he was released by LA and considering retirement.

How do you not see he has more leverage on the open market than only being able to negotiate with teams willing to meet the Eagles asking price for him? This should be obvious to everyone.
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I think it's fair to say the Eagles enabled him to resurrect his career. 

I think he gets exactly the same either way. He's worth what he's worth and he knows it. His family is also super wealthy and I don't think money drives him.

 
I don't want to open this up again, but let's just say that Wentz hasn't exactly been durable in his time in college and Philly. This is one of the more interesting stories in sports right now. 

 
Slider said:
If he's franchised and a team trades for him, they redo his deal to exactly what the market bears anyway. He's not going to get less money because the team gives up a 2nd.
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In what situation do you think you could negotiate the highest annual salary?

1. You have a  highly coveted skill set and can go to any company that wants you.

2. You can only go to one company that paid for exclusive negotiating rights with you.

Sure you can argue he's likely to make a boatload either way but to say there's no difference is just not true. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
In what situation do you think you could negotiate the highest annual salary?

1. You have a  highly coveted skill set and can go to any company that wants you.

2. You can only go to one company that paid for exclusive negotiating rights with you.

Sure you can argue he's likely to make a boatload either way but to say there's no difference is just not true. 
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I think it's worse than that. It's a trade, they don't have to negotiate with him at all. 

All his leverage is is to hold out like Bell did. Hence the PFT argument that he should enforce the CBA

 
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