No minority HC/GM hires this offseason (1 Viewer)

[Csonka4life]

I don't get what revisions the NFL thinks can be made over and above what they already require. What more can they do other than fine teams that don't have a certain number of minorities in their organization? And we all know what they really mean is blacks, not minorities in general.

Yes, but now that "Hispanics" are a growing political force/demographic it means them too.

 

[redBourne]

CalBear, consider this:Who is most likely to achieve and succeed at the NFL coaching level:A. This guy dominated in sports from an early age. Faster, quicker than everyone else, he didn't even need to work that hard at it. Track and football star in HS, he went to a big name school, where he learned a better work ethic, and put some time into learning fundamentals. He does his due diligence, and stuidies film when required, but isn't in love with the mental side of the game...he simply loves to blow past people. He gets drafted high in the NFL draft and has a solid career.B. This guy has been fascinated by football since he was a small child. Loves the mechanics and the strategy. He isn't dominant physically, but he knows where everyone should be, he knows the playbook inside and out, and his coaches trust that he'll always make the right read and be in the right position. Does well in HS, and gets a scholarship to a lower end DI school, where he studies hard, and continues to hone the mental side of his craft. He doesn't play a flashy position...he's in the trenches where his lack of athleticism doesn't hold him back. He gets drafted in the 6th round, but washes out of the NFL in 2 or 3 years because his physical talent simply isn't there.Now....which one is the better coach candidate? You've argued that the % of coaches should reflect the % of athletes instead of the general population. Yet, the truth is that those with less physical tools, but more drive and hard mental work make the better coaches. I would say that there are a TON of white guys in the NFL today who got there based more on the traits of candidate B, and most of the black guys in the NFL are more reflective of candidate A. IE: The pool of coaching candidates doe NOT reflect the overall athlete pool because the skill sets really are different. The traits that get them to the NFL to begin with matter, and those traits are not always the same between white and black guys.

This Right here. We have to look at playing professional football and coaching professional football (or any sport for that matter) as two separate sports. You can't just assume that because you played professional football or even at the collegiate level that you can coach. Teaching someone else is very different than teaching and motivating yourself. I would expect it takes a long time for someone to work their way through the system and gain the knowledge and expertise to understand how to teach someone football at any position. Being an Eagles fan I had the opportunity to read up on an article regarding, Kelly, and how he had to work through the ranks from just a High School coach. So even though your player B loved the game of [insert your favorite sport] he just did not have it to make it very far. A few years down the road the stayed motivated and are breaking through betting spot lights on ESPN.Throw out the bag of marbles. It's not a bag to bag ratio because you can't compare coaching to playing. They are two different sports.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't get what revisions the NFL thinks can be made over and above what they already require. What more can they do other than fine teams that don't have a certain number of minorities in their organization? And we all know what they really mean is blacks, not minorities in general.

Even that would be wrong. You cannot tell teams what people they have to hire. Making teams more aware of qualified minorities during the hiring process is clearly a good thing, but who gets hired and who doesn't ultimately comes down to the each team, and you cannot tell a team, "You don't have enough minorities working in your organization, so your next hire needs to be one." You just can't. So, I am not sure what else the NFL can really do.

 

[JamesTheScot]

What do they want to do? FORCE teams to hire a black coach?

This is going ####### overboard, I am tired of this race ####. Ike Reese ( former Eagle & Falcon ) talked about this today on the radio. Even he doesn't understand it. Said no black coaches were hired because maybe none of them were good enough for the jobs. Why don't the NFL or whoever is behind this crap go force Lovie Smith to take a job if they want a black hiring so badly. When is it going to stop? Do they have a set number on the amount of black coaches they want in the NFL? Are they going to come out one day and be like, ok we hit our goal of black coaches now.



If I was a coach of some sort in the NFL and black, this would honestly offend the hell out of me ( the whole Rooney Rule ). Just overall tired of the race thing. From the media encouraging and creating issues where their are none ( which is the biggest issue for race issues in the US imho ) to white guilt created issues to ignored race issues ( black on other color crime never seen as race issues ) to legit racists ( which anymore seems to be shrinking ).

Its just ####### tiresome

Big fan of white guys saying what they'd do and how they'd react if they were black.

Well sorry if I knew I was only getting an interview because of my color, it would piss me the #### off. That is my opinion. I would like to think I got an interview because of my resume, not because it was a rule.

What if you felt like you'd been passed over for a position you were qualified for because you were black?

What if you felt like you were passed over for a position you were qualified for because ______________________?It happens all the time to people of all races for a variety of reasons. What evidence is there that it was race? Because the aggrieved party is black? What about the other white guys that also interviewed and got passed over?

It's a pretty select field to be employed in. Trying to crunch numbers to decide what the demographics "should" look like is probably faulty from the get go.

I'm just curious how the NFL is going to fix this problem. Once you've mandated who must be interviewed for the position, about all that's left is to start dictating who must be hired.

 

[Christo]

Marc Trestman is the first Jewish head coach in the history of the NFL. Ever. The Bears advanced diversity in the NFL this year. The Bears replaced Marinelli with a minority hire.These are both net gains from a diversity standpoint.

Way off on that one. Sid Luckman was probably the first and I think Schwartz is Jewish. I don't think Jews are considered an oppressed minority anymore. Probably about 1/3rd of the ownership base is Jewish.

Oppressed Minority?

 

[Insein]

Marc Trestman is the first Jewish head coach in the history of the NFL. Ever. The Bears advanced diversity in the NFL this year. The Bears replaced Marinelli with a minority hire.These are both net gains from a diversity standpoint.

Way off on that one. Sid Luckman was probably the first and I think Schwartz is Jewish. I don't think Jews are considered an oppressed minority anymore. Probably about 1/3rd of the ownership base is Jewish.

Oppressed Minority?

Let's not get literal up in here.

 

[Ice Cream Man]

There was a study, which I can't find at the moment, where participants were asked to listen to a radio broadcast of a basketball game, and rate one specific player on various qualities (leadership, team play, athleticism, knowledge of the game). Half of the participants were shown a picture of a black player, the other half were shown a picture of a white player. Those who thought the player was white were more likely to rate him higher in leadership and knowledge of the game; those who thought he was black were more likely to rate him higher in athleticism. That's a deeply ingrained bias that exists in our culture and society, and it's difficult for a person to correct for it, even if he knows he may have that bias.

A similar study is "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?" We all have biases and these may be driving the wedge we see in NFL hiring choices. But consider:1. Would such biases change or disappear with mandated discrimination polices (i.e., Rooney Rule)? On the one hand, many feel the heart of a man is rarely changed by law or government fiat [the majority posters on this board]. Others, who believe bias is formed irrationally [presumably Calbear and others], feel that forcing hires could reveal information that would change perceptions. Note: whatever effectiveness the Rooney rule may have had in fostering black hires may have nothing to do with the rule itself, but incidental to the changing racial views that have (gradually) changed over the past fifty years. [i.e., the NFL has the hires and the Rooney rule because of changes in perception, not the other way around].

2. Are there reasons for this bias that are not grounded in irrationality or cultural preferences? Are people's biases influenced by how blacks, asians, and other minorities are portrayed in the media? [reality TV shows, sports, etc.] What if 7 out of 10 black kids are born out of wedlock? What about if the average 17-year-old black students performed as well on math as a 13-year-old white student? What if blacks are statistically more prone to fall into various social pathologies - drugs, gangs, crime, etc. Thus, the root of the bias may have as much or more to do with inputs [the values of the black, asian, etc. family] as it does with the outputs [the outsider discerning those values].

In any case, as others have posted, the hiring may be less to do with bias than with the skill sets of the broader population - there's only so many good leaders out there. But if leadership can be improved upon, in some sense athletics may be a double-edged sword - gifted athletes perform well [and are remunerated] on the field but are not incentivized to develop teaching skills, people skills and analysis. By contrast, it will pay for relatively unsuccessful athletes to develop those areas, particularly those with marginal leadership abilities, so that they can remain connected with the sport.