What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Not so fast - Josh McDaniels backed out of the Colts job (1 Viewer)

And maybe you should apply some numbers to this big Brady breakout you're referring to when McDaniels left.  You said McDaniels was gone when Brady broke out into a top 5 QB.  But when McDaniels was gone Brady went from a guy who was throwing 26-28 TDs with 12-14 INTs and 3500-4000 yards with an 85-92 QB rating to a guy who was throwing 26-28 TDs with 12-14 INTs and 3500-4000 yards with an 85-92 QB rating.  I'm not seeing the huge breakout there.


Brady had broke out to a top 5 QB before McDaniels left for sure but he was also elite IMO before McDaniels was his OC, just did not have huge stats but a lot of things were different.

The stat breakout happened in 2007 but if you think that was due to McDaniels I'll have to agree to disagree because to me the primary reasons were clearly the additions of Moss and Welker which were major improvements when arguably the two best WR's he had before were Troy Brown and Deion Branch. The addition of these two was actually more than talent,  Welkers ability to get open quickly and seemingly at will combined with the stress Moss put on a defense was a beatiful pairing and I think that was huge for Brady's growth and easily the driving motivator for his stat breakout.

I think what Bronco Billy was saying was that when McDaniels left NE that Brady did not skip a beat and that is true for the most part.

Also I was mulling this over the other day and to me the most innovative thing I saw NE do on offense during the entire Bellichick era was how they utilized their TE's as matchup problems. Especially of course when they had Hernandez but that was a pretty creative concept to use two TE's in that manner. Especially as it relates to way he used Hernandez, which I think spawned the slot TE role, the Jordan Reed/Evan Engram role on teams offenses. This all happened in the few years McDaniels was gone. So since 2006 he's been the OC for all but 3 seasons and in those 3 seasons they came up with the most innovative thing the offense has done IMO under Brady/BB.

With regard to McDaniels the best and really only evidence he can succeed without Brady, is what he did with Matt Cassell in 2008 which is what I believe got him the Denver coaching job, not his development of Brady.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports Eagles OC Frank Reich "has emerged as the favorite" for the Colts' head coaching vacancy.

Understandably following the Josh McDaniels fiasco, no one is going to report Reich has been hired until the ink is dry, but Mortensen's wording makes it sound like the two sides are just working out contract details. Especially considering the circumstances, Reich is a quality hire who has done good work both with the Chargers and Eagles. This would be his first head coaching job.

 
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports Eagles OC Frank Reich "has emerged as the favorite" for the Colts' head coaching vacancy.

Understandably following the Josh McDaniels fiasco, no one is going to report Reich has been hired until the ink is dry, but Mortensen's wording makes it sound like the two sides are just working out contract details. Especially considering the circumstances, Reich is a quality hire who has done good work both with the Chargers and Eagles. This would be his first head coaching job.
If they do sign Reich they're getting the guy they probably should have gone harder after from the start.

 
Good move by the colts. Have to hope that andrew luck is 100% and they should trade down from pick #3 if they can get a haul for it for darnold. Mayfield or rosen

 
Good move by the colts. Have to hope that andrew luck is 100% and they should trade down from pick #3 if they can get a haul for it for darnold. Mayfield or rosen
I agree about trading down if Luck isn't healthy for 2018.  If he is and Barkley is still on the board, they should grab him.

 
Boone22 said:
Reich is a quality hire who has done good work both with the Chargers and Eagles
Reich did not do good work with the Chargers. He was OC in 2014 and 2015. The offense was better with Whisenhunt both before him (2013) and after him (2016 and 2017). The Chargers certainly had some key injuries on offense in his two seasons as OC, but to say or imply that he did a good job there is a stretch.

 
Josh McDaniels is no leader of men.  His word is not his bond.  When trouble strikes he runs home to Daddy, and when on his own he cheated, unimaginatively, and threw his support behind a Q.B. with less accuracy with his dominate hand than I have with my weaker hand.    He was unable to read how his choice at Q.B. played in the locker room in Denver and shows a lack of appreciation for how going back on his word now and turning his back on assistants he convinced to come work with him will be perceived now.  He shows no learning curve or maturity curve.

He will never command a room or the respect of pros.  Without Belichick behind him he is nothing.  Hell, Belichick probably wanted to keep him so he doesn't go out and institute whatever cheating technique the Pats are currently using, but so poorly that he gets caught, again, just like last time in Denver, and then has the whole thing bounce back to the Pats.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think McDaniels likely serves a purpose for the Pats much in the way a court jester served a king’s court.  He’s comic relief for an iron fisted tyrant who demands exact performance and rigid loyalty at all times - providing an outlet in a very tough environment.  But like the court jester, he doesn’t hold much responsibilty for conquests in war, development of the troops, or in determining policy.   Sure as hell not a guy you’d ever follow into battle.

.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think McDaniels likely serves a purpose for the Pats much in the way a court jester served a king’s court.  He’s comic relief for an iron fisted tyrant who demands exact performance and rigid loyalty at all times - providing an outlet in a very tough environment.  But like the court jester, he doesn’t hold much responsibilty for conquests in war, development of the troops, or in determining policy.   Sure as hell not a guy you’d ever follow into battle.

.
So kinda like trump n sessions

 
Listened to Ringer NFL Podcast the other day with Mike Lombardi.  This is not about dissecting Lombardi, so let's not. I believe his opinion is worth hearing since he just recently worked a few years in the NE front office and interviewed McDaniels for the Cleveland HC job(which he said he never offered before McDaniels pulled out of the running-which Lombardi had no issue with).

On this Podcast Lombardi skewered McDaniels and several times mentioned that he really liked him which is why this bothered him so much. Seemed genuine to me, not a guy with an axe to grind. He called him selfish, someone whose word is no good and he agreed with McDaniels ex-agent that he had just committed professional suicide. Nothing unusual about any of this but the other part that he mentioned a few times is the thing more of interest, at least to me because this was the thought process I had been having, and that McDaniels just is not interested in being an NFL head coach. At all, anywhere.  So many people rush to conclusion he is the HC in waiting in NE or that BB is heading out soon. Reality may be nothing like that at all. I believe the reports that he is not the HC in waiting, that nothing was promised and it's quite possible BB confided in him that he's not got one foot out the door and this is what appealed to McDaniels about remaining in NE, not to become the next HC but assurance BB was not looking to exit anytime soon so he could remain as the his OC for conceivable few years.

 
Listened to Ringer NFL Podcast the other day with Mike Lombardi.  This is not about dissecting Lombardi, so let's not. I believe his opinion is worth hearing since he just recently worked a few years in the NE front office and interviewed McDaniels for the Cleveland HC job(which he said he never offered before McDaniels pulled out of the running-which Lombardi had no issue with).

On this Podcast Lombardi skewered McDaniels and several times mentioned that he really liked him which is why this bothered him so much. Seemed genuine to me, not a guy with an axe to grind. He called him selfish, someone whose word is no good and he agreed with McDaniels ex-agent that he had just committed professional suicide. Nothing unusual about any of this but the other part that he mentioned a few times is the thing more of interest, at least to me because this was the thought process I had been having, and that McDaniels just is not interested in being an NFL head coach. At all, anywhere.  So many people rush to conclusion he is the HC in waiting in NE or that BB is heading out soon. Reality may be nothing like that at all. I believe the reports that he is not the HC in waiting, that nothing was promised and it's quite possible BB confided in him that he's not got one foot out the door and this is what appealed to McDaniels about remaining in NE, not to become the next HC but assurance BB was not looking to exit anytime soon so he could remain as the his OC for conceivable few years.
Maybe he is hoping to become a GM.  Being a weasel may be no hindrance in that field of endeavor. Learning the ruthlessness of the Dark Lord at his very feet may be an asset in that line of work, who can say. 

 
After listening to and reading up on the JMD situation, to me it sounds like some of the following could be true:

BB is more likely to stick around for longer with JCM around. 

JCM at this point may not even want to take over for B.B.

JCM may not want to be a head coach again and would be happy staying as an OC. 

JCM likes living in NE, so maybe there is some truth to him not wanting to uproot his family. 

 
After listening to and reading up on the JMD situation, to me it sounds like some of the following could be true:

BB is more likely to stick around for longer with JCM around. 

JCM at this point may not even want to take over for B.B.

JCM may not want to be a head coach again and would be happy staying as an OC. 

JCM likes living in NE, so maybe there is some truth to him not wanting to uproot his family. 
Sounds like he could have just removed himself from consideration or not have interviewed at all if those things are all true. Instead he strung the Colts along for five weeks after accepting their offer and had them sign his assistant "hires" to contracts.

 
Sounds like he could have just removed himself from consideration or not have interviewed at all if those things are all true. Instead he strung the Colts along for five weeks after accepting their offer and had them sign his assistant "hires" to contracts.
Yeah - the biggest screw job isn't to the Colts. (I mean, yes, the Colts got hosed for sure...but)

The biggest hosing is the assistant coaches, and whoever the new HC is who now can't hand-pick his coaching staff because he's stuck with the guys JCM picked.  

Which all screws the colts in a roundabout manner, but the lack of professionalism here is off the charts. 

My gut keeps telling me that JMD orchestrated this as a hit job to the Colts intentionally hamstringing them as revenge for deflate-gate. It cannot be a coincidence that it was the Colts. It just can't be. 

 
You guys humor me for a second. Lots of folks are suggesting JMD was a disaster in DEN and his bailing on the Colts was in bad form (both of which I agree with). But taking things one step further, many people feel he is a disaster in waiting no matter where he becomes a head coach.

But JMD was instrumental in developing TB12 from a game manager into an actual weapon. JMD, TB, BB, and Randy Moss basically remade the Patriots playbook in 2007 and NE has been an offensive force ever since.

In other threads, people are now ushering in Jimmy Garoppolo as possibly one of the next top quarterbacks . . . and JMD would have been the one that worked with him for 3.5 years in NE. He also took Matt Cassel from a college back up into a serviceable QB. He also helped bring along Jacoby Brissett, who was able to start within weeks for the Colts.

That's several QB's that he's helped develop, so why couldn't he do that again either in NE or for another team? I get that he whiffed and whiffed hard on Tim Tebow, but he helped get the Patriots to 8 Super Bowls (he left the Rams and came back to the Patriots for the 2011 post season).

Do people think he could draft and develop another decent QB? He will likely have a say in who NE targets as the heir to Brady.
I would have to respectfully disagree. I think JMD is a classic case study of a run of the mill OC that greatly benefited from having a HOF QB to work with. I don't think he developed TB12. Its the other way around.

 
I would have to respectfully disagree. I think JMD is a classic case study of a run of the mill OC that greatly benefited from having a HOF QB to work with. I don't think he developed TB12. Its the other way around.
How many people have been OC's for teams that scored 589 points and 557 points?

Before JMD became OC (5 seasons), NE averaged 24 ppg. After JMD became OC, between his two stints as OC, NE with Brady at QB had averaged 30 ppg. Is that TB12, JMD, or a combination of both?

Even in the year WITHOUT Brady, the Patriots averaged nearly 26 ppg (which was still better than 4 of the 5 seasons they had Brady with Weis as OC). And NE has changed things up many times over the years . . . ground and pound, dink and dunk, deep routes to moss, double TE's, now back to deeper routes, etc.

I believe no team has scored as many points as NE has over the same time frame as they have with JMD as offensive coordinator. Sure, a lot of that is Brady, but other teams have had top QBs as well and didn't score as many points.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How many people have been OC's for teams that scored 589 points and 557 points?

Before JCM became OC (5 seasons), NE averaged 24 ppg. After JCM became OC, between his two stints as OC, NE with Brady at QB had averaged 30 ppg. Is that TB12, JCM, or a combination of both?

Even in the year WITHOUT Brady, the Patriots averaged nearly 26 ppg (which was still better than 4 of the 5 seasons they had Brady with Weis as OC). And NE has changed things up many times over the years . . . ground and pound, dink and dunk, deep routes to moss, double TE's, now back to deeper routes, etc.

I believe no team has scored as many points as NE has over the same time frame as they have with JCM as offensive coordinator. Sure, a lot of that is Brady, but other teams have had top QBs as well and didn't score as many points.
Of course a lot of it is with Brady.  How did JCM do as OC for the Rams?

 
Of course a lot of it is with Brady.  How did JCM do as OC for the Rams?
The Rams had to start 3 different QB's in his time there including a very young and brittle Sam Bradford (who had his worst season as a pro). They had Steven Jackson and not a lot of help at the skill positions. Is that on JMD, HC Steve Spagnuolo, or the GM (or did they all under perform)?

If we can allocate credit to TB in NE, why can't we assign blame to Sam Bradford in STL?

 
The Rams had to start 3 different QB's in his time there including a very young and brittle Sam Bradford (who had his worst season as a pro). They had Steven Jackson and not a lot of help at the skill positions. Is that on JMD, HC Steve Spagnuolo, or the GM (or did they all under perform)?

If we can allocate credit to TB in NE, why can't we assign blame to Sam Bradford in STL?
Where can we assign blame to JCM in STL?  Didn't Philly just win a SB with their back up?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
How many people have been OC's for teams that scored 589 points and 557 points?

Before JMD became OC (5 seasons), NE averaged 24 ppg. After JMD became OC, between his two stints as OC, NE with Brady at QB had averaged 30 ppg. Is that TB12, JMD, or a combination of both?

Even in the year WITHOUT Brady, the Patriots averaged nearly 26 ppg (which was still better than 4 of the 5 seasons they had Brady with Weis as OC). And NE has changed things up many times over the years . . . ground and pound, dink and dunk, deep routes to moss, double TE's, now back to deeper routes, etc.

I believe no team has scored as many points as NE has over the same time frame as they have with JMD as offensive coordinator. Sure, a lot of that is Brady, but other teams have had top QBs as well and didn't score as many points.
Without TB12, JMD is just another guy. I would say a similar example to him is Todd Haley. One Big Ben or one Tom Brady is worth 1000 of these guys.

 
Where can we assign blame to JCM in STL?  Didn't Philly just win a SB with their back up?


We can point to anyone you want to. Not saying McDaniels was error free by any stretch.
Let him go, his hate is too strong. Yes, Philly won the super bowl with a back up and a few others have done it too, but they always had great teams around them. I don't think any team has won the super bowl with a 3rd stringer. The Rams were awful and I would bet that 75 % of teams in the last 30 years have losing records if their back ups started more than 5 or 6 games in a season and most haven't won a playoff game let alone a super bowl.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I live here in Indianapolis so there's a lot of talk on the radio about all this, I know it's water under the bridge at this point but I just wanted to chime in with my thoughts.  It was actually Ryan Grigson that turned the Patriots in over the whole deflate-gate thing so I don't think that had anything to do with McDaniels decision.  Secondly, I seriously doubt McDaniels was so upset to go out and do that, heck the Patriots got ultimate payback by winning the super bowl last year after all that while the Colts slipped deeper down the division.

As a fan, honestly, the only thing that bothers me is that he had other people uproot their lives so that they could come and work for him.  I know they are all grown men and perhaps they will like Reich more but still, that sucks.  I mean that's exactly like a manager hiring you while he knows full well he's leaving before you even start, I had that happen to me and that's a crappy feeling.  On the flip side, as an employee, I get getting cold feet, especially if your current company offered to match your salary or give you additional perks, who knows.  My last thought is that  I can't help but wonder if he felt Andrew Luck's career was over or something?  I dunno, we'll see though.

 
Absolutely one of the worst reasons to go back to a job you decided to leave in the first place.
I agree 100% but the NFL is not really like an ordinary job, my fault for making a poor comparison.  I do wonder if the keys to the future Patriots HC job were offered as a perk though.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree 100% but the NFL is not really like an ordinary job


Agreed.  Good previous post though.  Leaving the Colts and the asst. coaches they hired for him twisting in the wind is completely inexcusable, but quite honestly that level of behavior ought to be expected of McDaniels by now.  Cat doesn’t change his markings.

 
What a little dbag.  

Link

It was a shock to the football world when Josh McDaniels spurned the Indianapolis Colts and decided to back out of the deal he agreed upon to become their next head coach and the New England Patriots offensive coordinator has finally broken the silence.

The Colts have since moved on from the McDaniels fiasco but fans are still bitter - and rightfully so - after the 41-year-old decided to back out of the deal to be the next head coach.

McDaniels felt he didn't know his future with the Patriots when he agreed to be the head coach of Colts but when owner Robert Kraft and head coach Bill Belichick clarified his role moving forward, that's when he made the decision to bail.

"I wasn't 100 percent sure what the future was. I just hadn't had any clarity on that,'' McDaniels said Monday, via Jim McBride of the Boston Globe. "So, where did I fit in? Where there any plans? I just didn't have much clarity on what my role was here moving forward.

"Once I heard from Robert and Bill on that Tuesday, it just gave me reason to pause and consider this whole situation."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So, he’s allegedly learned from his childish and petulant utter failure of a stint in DEN, agrees with IND to become their HC, has IND hire on his handpicked assistants, and THEN he goes to talk to Kraft and NE about his future there and decides after that talk that he’d rather let IND twisting in the wind and on the hook for him?

And he still hasn’t learned.  He should have just kept his mouth shut and take the abuse instead of offering up this horrendous explanation.  Seriously, IND.  Be very glad that you didn’t end up with this sorry punk *** POS as your HC.  Man, I hope NE hire this guy after BB leaves.  That would invoke some significant karma on them.

.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If only there was some way he could have found out what his future was with Kraft/Patriots before accepting the job with the Colts.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top