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Notre Dame in Paris is on fire (3 Viewers)

The materials do not exist which could replace that.  The history, art, atmosphere is impossible to replace.  Very sad and tragic.  

 
Walking Boot said:
France24/Paris Match is reporting that all the artworks and relics were able to get out. Guess we'll find out soon what the real story is. Though definitely the in-place organ and stained glass are going to be lost. 
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wow, that would be incredible if they were able to scramble enough people to evacuate everything before the fire.

certainly the immovable structures (the stained glass, the organ, etc.) are ####ed

 
Walking Boot said:
France24/Paris Match is reporting that all the artworks and relics were able to get out. Guess we'll find out soon what the real story is. Though definitely the in-place organ and stained glass are going to be lost. 
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The France24 coverage has been solid but there's been a lack of official information.  We'll learn much more tomorrow after the blaze is brought under control.

 
https://news.artnet.com/art-world/paris-burning-notre-dame-cathedral-paris-catches-fire-1517254

"A devastating fire ripping through the historic Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris has destroyed the cathedral’s spire, which weighs an estimated 750 tons, and caused the ceiling to topple. "

:eek:

"A rooster at the top of the spire contained three relics, now likely reduced to ash: relics of Saint Denis and Saint Genevieve, patron saints of Paris, and a supposed tiny piece of the Crown of Thorns acquired by the church in 1239. The relics were originally placed at the summit by the Archbishop Verdier in 1935 to protect the building and its parishioners from harm."

 
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Devastating and makes think of a line from an EM Forster novel to effect of something like “buildings are far more valuable than people”. The cathedral is as irreplaceable as it gets.

 
So just say the stone framework stands.  Is this something that they would just leave as is, or would they rebuild it all?  

I ask because I always think it's weird that old stuff gets rebuilt. We have tons of wooden bridges here in SE PA but if you look into them, they've all been rebuilt over the years.  Kind of takes away the point of it, really.  But obviously the Cathedral is a much, much more significant building.  I just was wondering if it's better to leave the burned carcass or if they rebuild it to look like it used to.

 
TheIronSheik said:
So just say the stone framework stands.  Is this something that they would just leave as is, or would they rebuild it all?  

I ask because I always think it's weird that old stuff gets rebuilt. We have tons of wooden bridges here in SE PA but if you look into them, they've all been rebuilt over the years.  Kind of takes away the point of it, really.  But obviously the Cathedral is a much, much more significant building.  I just was wondering if it's better to leave the burned carcass or if they rebuild it to look like it used to.
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I don't think we'll know for a long time.

 
I used to work in a building that housed a waterless fire suppression system to protect a couple of MRI machines. It was some type of gas. Maybe this is the way going forward for old structures and museums.

 
TheIronSheik said:
So just say the stone framework stands.  Is this something that they would just leave as is, or would they rebuild it all?  

I ask because I always think it's weird that old stuff gets rebuilt. We have tons of wooden bridges here in SE PA but if you look into them, they've all been rebuilt over the years.  Kind of takes away the point of it, really.  But obviously the Cathedral is a much, much more significant building.  I just was wondering if it's better to leave the burned carcass or if they rebuild it to look like it used to.
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Other cathedrals have been rebuilt after fires, earthquakes, bombings, etc.  There was very little left of the Frauenkirche after the bombing of Dresden.  It was rebuilt to look like the original exterior.

Notre Dame is the nexus of the Catholic Church in France.  It will eventually reopen in some form. 

 
Never went there, and probably would never have had the means to go there, but just so sad.  Damn.

 
Its gutted all the same, but I really, really, really hope this was just a stupid accident and not something more sinister.

I don't want to feel anger along with sadness.

 
TheIronSheik said:
So just say the stone framework stands.  Is this something that they would just leave as is, or would they rebuild it all?  

I ask because I always think it's weird that old stuff gets rebuilt. We have tons of wooden bridges here in SE PA but if you look into them, they've all been rebuilt over the years.  Kind of takes away the point of it, really.  But obviously the Cathedral is a much, much more significant building.  I just was wondering if it's better to leave the burned carcass or if they rebuild it to look like it used to.
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I think they will rebuild.  The cathedral underwent a lot of work in the mid-1800s after Hugo's book came out, as it was in a bit of disrepair then.  The spire dates from that era, rather than the 13th century.  

 
Don Quixote said:
I think they will rebuild.  The cathedral underwent a lot of work in the mid-1800s after Hugo's book came out, as it was in a bit of disrepair then.  The spire dates from that era, rather than the 13th century.  
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Many years ago, I read a book called "Notre Dame of Paris:  The Biography of a Cathedral" by Pulitzer prize winning architectural critic Allan Temko.  Unfortunately it's currently out of print.

Temko wrote in great detail about how the building was constructed over many centuries.  Additions and improvements occurred as funds became available, whether from kings, nobles or parishioners.  Most modern buildings are constructed from precise plans.  Notre Dame evolved as the city grew around it.  The next cycle of rebirth starts tomorrow.

 
Interesting thread about the current and previous restoration efforts and how they might be to blame 

@maggiekb1: Husband (architect and engineer) pointed out that whoever the contractor on this Notre Dame renovation was, they're legally and financially ####ed now. That got me curious about the firm ... which led to some old articles and, oh man, the aftermath of this is gonna be messy ...
Shared via TweetCaster

https://twitter.com/maggiekb1/status/1117874743711948800

 
How long for all that stone to cool?  How much shifting occurs as it does?  How many are cracked from being cooled too fast by water?  I really wonder how much we have left here?  I hope enough to restore the glory but I am not sure we have such artisans anymore.  Yes we can hang sheets of glass on metal superstructures up to the sky, but this type of construction, we may understand it academically, but not experientially.  Sadly, now Masons are a cult or a club, not artisans.

 
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Henry Ford said:
God, I forgot about that.  That fire's going to melt or vaporize hundreds of tons of lead.  That's incredibly toxic.
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where is the lead primarily located?  I can't imagine the fire is hot enough to vaporize it, maybe make some fumes.  

 
Not to be Debbie Downer but the “crown of thorns” at ND wasn’t really worn by JC.

ETA: the pieces of the cross and nails aren’t authentic either

 
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i suspect that when they rebuild the walls will no longer be load bearing they will be a curtain wall and inside will be steel superstructure and normal construction which bears on that steel structure will follow but be made to look period and it will be built up to modern code 

 
@culdeus: lead starts to vaporize at 752 degrees Fahrenheit.  A house fire is about 1100 degrees.  This thing is going to get hotter even than that, and it'll have been burning for a long time before we're done.

 
SWC said:
i suspect that when they rebuild the walls will no longer be load bearing they will be a curtain wall and inside will be steel superstructure and normal construction which bears on that steel structure will follow but be made to look period and it will be built up to modern code 
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Hardly recognized you and you can take that to the bank bromigo

 
Henry Ford said:
@culdeus: lead starts to vaporize at 752 degrees Fahrenheit.  A house fire is about 1100 degrees.  This thing is going to get hotter even than that, and it'll have been burning for a long time before we're done.
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I'm surprised there is quite so much combustible material in play here.   Well what you gonna do, other than don't drive a forklift over a tapestry or whatever they did?

 
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