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Notre Dame in Paris is on fire (1 Viewer)

So, was the Crown of Thorns (and other historical artifacts of extreme importance) not in a fireproof safe or similar?  I mean I have one for birth certificates and other documents, wouldn't all of these artifacts have some type of protection for events like this?  It's just sitting in a gold box, which any viewer of GOT will tell you can melt pretty easily?

 
Doug B said:
Donation pledges are now up to $675 million. The family that owns the French cosmetics company L'Oréal has pledged $226 million. American technology firm Apple has pledged an unspecified amount not included in the $675 million. 
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At the risk of appearing cynical, you have to consider these pledges (especially the ones from huge individual and family donors) in the context of the ongoing debate over high marginal tax rates in France.

 
this is a tragedy but if there is any sort of a silver lining it is the countless people who have already pledged what is likely billions of dollars to repair the cathedral and the truth is that timber structures that are closing in on a thousand years old eventually need retrofitting or to simply be replaced so the cathedral will now get all the attention it needs and then some come out significantly stronger and safer on the back end and stand for another thousand years like i said its a tragedy but this is a good silver lining 

 
SWC said:
this is a tragedy but if there is any sort of a silver lining it is the countless people who have already pledged what is likely billions of dollars to repair the cathedral and the truth is that timber structures that are closing in on a thousand years old eventually need retrofitting or to simply be replaced so the cathedral will now get all the attention it needs and then some come out significantly stronger and safer on the back end and stand for another thousand years like i said its a tragedy but this is a good silver lining 
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I agree 100%. Took it to the bank. 

 
It's odd that something so horrible could be so relieving with the sunrise. This morning despite a hollowed out shell people were actually happy that it was recoverable. 

I personally had this awful feeling yesterday that this was some harbinger or metaphor writ very large about the state of western civilization, democracy, humanism, all that. But what we see about humanity is that we are at our best when things are at the worst. We saw heroes, real life heroes, emerge from all this. 

I guess my other thought was seeing how religion can matter in a positive way. Please I'm not saying 'something' here, I'm say that France is statistically one of the most secular, agnostic and even atheistic in Europe. Church attendance has been down, the percentages saying they have belief in God is down, membership in the Church is down, etc. - And yet the reaction in Paris itself was heartbreaking, moving. Parisians singing hymns in the street, and others just weeping at what is essentially an icon and treasure box of more religious icons. But when you see the art in France's churches you see they were sources of community, even neighborhood pride, and the art and treasures within told the struggle with time, pestilence, invasion, wars, despotism, oppression, dreadful hopelessness, and also prayers said in tears, crying mothers and families wrapped in hope. It's all there, and in times like these the bonds of humanity to each other and itself over time become clear. You can include God in that or not, it's there, and France showed its soul I think.

Anyway, out of all that horror I thought I'd just remember the first time I saw Notre Dame. I was 26 and pretty much at the peak of whatever it is you want to peak at. All cylinders were clicking. I was alone, with little money, didn't know a cluck of French, and had taken the train in from Lyon. Landed at the Gare de Lyon, got a room for the night at some hotel nearby picked from the guidebook, parked ye olde maroon backpack, and hit the rue. I might have walked 4-5 miles, going completely the wrong way, then making the quai, and then seeing the Lady rise up in the distance, like a sunrise, with the sunset. It felt like I had crossed some bridge in life, and ultimately I would, to the Cathedral itself. I know millions have shared that moment, and somehow its irreplaceable and impervious to any fire. 

 
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matttyl said:
So, was the Crown of Thorns (and other historical artifacts of extreme importance) not in a fireproof safe or similar?  I mean I have one for birth certificates and other documents, wouldn't all of these artifacts have some type of protection for events like this?  It's just sitting in a gold box, which any viewer of GOT will tell you can melt pretty easily?
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It's a working church.  Many of the objects are in use or on display.  Also, fireproof safes aren't always waterproof.

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
The water had to go somewhere.  Down is the usual place.
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Haven't seen any media expressing any concerns about water damage.  It seems like they didn't even use much because the weight of the water was a risk.  

 
When I first heard that it was on fire, my first thought was, "Isn't it made of stone?"  Then the videos and pictures came out and I thought, "Holy crap!  It's crumbling to the ground."

But yesterday, I saw a couple videos posted on Imgur from inside the church and it didn't look bad at all.  And that's because my first assumption was fairly accurate.  Now, I've never been, so I can't say what it looked like before in there, but it doesn't seem like it would take much to rebuild what was damaged.  I think in my head, I was picturing it to look like the church that Ross and Emily got married in, in Friends.  

 
culdeus said:
Haven't seen any media expressing any concerns about water damage.  It seems like they didn't even use much because the weight of the water was a risk.  
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It is not like they have carpet or wood in their floors or foundation.  Stone and concrete and tile flooring.  Water would not be an issue for anything at the ground level.  Most of it just ended up in the Seine River.  

 
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Mrs. Rannous said:
It's a working church.  Many of the objects are in use or on display.  Also, fireproof safes aren't always waterproof.
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Mine is both.  Just saying things can be "on display" and still protected from situations like this.  Take the Declaration of Independence (and other documents) at the National Archives here. 

 
matttyl said:
Mine is both.  Just saying things can be "on display" and still protected from situations like this.  Take the Declaration of Independence (and other documents) at the National Archives here. 
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Their crap they have on diplay is a bunch of rubbish that they pass off as relics.  It's the architecture, sculpture, and engineering that make up the style and decor that is the main monument here.  

 
culdeus said:
Their crap they have on diplay is a bunch of rubbish that they pass off as relics.  It's the architecture, sculpture, and engineering that make up the style and decor that is the main monument here.  
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We were initially talking about the Crown of Thorns here (among other things).  I wouldn't describe that as "rubbish".  Agreed that there are other things here that make it a monument, but it also is quite literally a museum. 

I was just wondering why someone would have to "run into the fire" to save certain priceless items from destruction, namely the crown.  Even if it isn't 100% authentic, it was given to the church by King Louis IX in 1239, over 250 years before Columbus would set sail - it's priceless. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's odd that something so horrible could be so relieving with the sunrise. This morning despite a hollowed out shell people were actually happy that it was recoverable. 

I personally had this awful feeling yesterday that this was some harbinger or metaphor writ very large about the state of western civilization, democracy, humanism, all that. But what we see about humanity is that we are at our best when things are at the worst. We saw heroes, real life heroes, emerge from all this. 

I guess my other thought was seeing how religion can matter in a positive way. Please I'm not saying 'something' here, I'm say that France is statistically one of the most secular, agnostic and even atheistic in Europe. Church attendance has been down, the percentages saying they have belief in God is down, membership in the Church is down, etc. - And yet the reaction in Paris itself was heartbreaking, moving. Parisians singing hymns in the street, and others just weeping at what is essentially an icon and treasure box of more religious icons. But when you see the art in France's churches you see they were sources of community, even neighborhood pride, and the art and treasures within told the struggle with time, pestilence, invasion, wars, despotism, oppression, dreadful hopelessness, and also prayers said in tears, crying mothers and families wrapped in hope. It's all there, and in times like these the bonds of humanity to each other and itself over time become clear. You can include God in that or not, it's there, and France showed its soul I think.

Anyway, out of all that horror I thought I'd just remember the first time I saw Notre Dame. I was 26 and pretty much at the peak of whatever it is you want to peak at. All cylinders were clicking. I was alone, with little money, didn't know a cluck of French, and had taken the train in from Lyon. Landed at the Gare de Lyon, got a room for the night at some hotel nearby picked from the guidebook, parked ye olde maroon backpack, and hit the rue. I might have walked 4-5 miles, going completely the wrong way, then making the quai, and then seeing the Lady rise up in the distance, like a sunrise, with the sunset. It felt like I had crossed some bridge in life, and ultimately I would, to the Cathedral itself. I know millions have shared that moment, and somehow its irreplaceable and impervious to any fire. 
Click to expand...
NPR had segment with a reporter who was in Paris to cover this. She told a story about  a Muslim immigrant who was her taxi driver that day who talked very passionately about the church and it's importance to him as someone who is not Christian but an adopted Parisian and citizen of the world. I'm paraphrasing but it was very touching.

 
So will the "new" church have some sort of sprinkler/foam/fire prevention system put in place?  Good grief. 

Is there any thought that this might have been deliberately set?  The fire occurred when most of the assets of value had been removed.  A billion dollars in donations (and rising) along with any fire insurance payout they would get.  I'm not insinuating that happened here, but places have been torched for much less.

Has there been any legitimate chatter about this, or is it confined to the tin-foil hat crowd?

 
culdeus said:
Haven't seen any media expressing any concerns about water damage.  It seems like they didn't even use much because the weight of the water was a risk.  
Click to expand...
They used as much water as they could.  The communications director for the cathedral mentioned the water below the main floor today.

 
TheIronSheik said:
When I first heard that it was on fire, my first thought was, "Isn't it made of stone?"  Then the videos and pictures came out and I thought, "Holy crap!  It's crumbling to the ground."

But yesterday, I saw a couple videos posted on Imgur from inside the church and it didn't look bad at all.  And that's because my first assumption was fairly accurate.  Now, I've never been, so I can't say what it looked like before in there, but it doesn't seem like it would take much to rebuild what was damaged.  I think in my head, I was picturing it to look like the church that Ross and Emily got married in, in Friends.  
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It will take more to rebuild than you realise.  Those walls have lost a lot of the support they had from being tied to the roof and vault.  The vault was not made to support that weight and could still collapse, as could some of the exterior walls.  And it's not going to be easy to replace the main timbers of the roof, even if they can find a suitable material.

 
Sorry if this was already discussed but I’ve seen some tweets that really got me thinking. People weren’t in a rush to donate to rebuild the churches in LA until the ND fire. We don’t seem to concerned that we are destroying rain forests at a staggering rate either. How and why do we decide to care so deeply about?

 
Ilov80s said:
Sorry if this was already discussed but I’ve seen some tweets that really got me thinking. People weren’t in a rush to donate to rebuild the churches in LA until the ND fire. We don’t seem to concerned that we are destroying rain forests at a staggering rate either. How and why do we decide to care so deeply about?
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i’ve seen the flint water crisis being brought up constantly in connection to notre dame.  i think people and the internet have time to be outraged about everything.  i don’t know enough about either to say what people are or are not doing.

 
Chemical X said:
i’ve seen the flint water crisis being brought up constantly in connection to notre dame.  i think people and the internet have time to be outraged about everything.  i don’t know enough about either to say what people are or are not doing.
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It’s worth thinking about in my opinion. 

 
Ilov80s said:
It’s worth thinking about in my opinion. 
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but what are we thinking about?  is flint being raised to make this a black white thing?  i mean, they don’t seem related.  it seems flint has gotten money and has been mismanaged.  notre dame doesn’t seem to be funded by the government or an entity.  i have no idea about this faux outrage.....honest.  i mean, it’s even two different countries.  is it that the wh pledged to “help”?  heck, along of things are wrong in this country, so singling out flint water just shukes me.

 
Chemical X said:
but what are we thinking about?  is flint being raised to make this a black white thing?  i mean, they don’t seem related.  it seems flint has gotten money and has been mismanaged.  notre dame doesn’t seem to be funded by the government or an entity.  i have no idea about this faux outrage.....honest.  i mean, it’s even two different countries.  is it that the wh pledged to “help”?  heck, along of things are wrong in this country, so singling out flint water just shukes me.
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I didn’t bring up the Flint situation but it fits. How and why do people choose to focus their money and sympathies? Why did the government and billionaires jump up to donate to Paris? It’s a philosophical question because there are distasters happening all the time. I’m not making it about race, just curious.

Wouldn’t Notre Dame be owned and operated by the Catholic Church which is worth about $20 billion? Surely they need help with this and I’m not saying it’s not worthy. I was raised Catholic and have a history degree so this was devastating to me but it probably doesn’t really compare to disease or famine or tearing down the rain forest that happens daily.

Also why is it that if I feel bad that the huge floods in poverty stricken South Dakota and want to talk about it that makes it fake outrage? I really hate that term.

 
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