Now that they have beaten 3 of the top 4 teams (1 Viewer)

[Keys Myaths]

Driving into work this morning heard this gem:

"Still not sold on Peyton till he wins a big game, on the road.."

This has always been my argument.Hasn't changed since game 1 this year...I didn't care about the Patriots game, and said many times before last night's game that this would be a whole different ball of wax if it was in Pittsburgh.

Just because it's coming out now, because all the real loudmouths have been silenced (the idiots who still think the Patriots are a tough opponent, etc.), doesn't make it any less valid.

Anyone who thinks a 2nd round playoff winat Arrowhead over a 13-3 Chiefs team that was extremely widely predicted to make the Super Bowl, was not "winning a big game on the road"...Well... they are either displaying an extreme ignorance about football, or they are letting bias override their objectivity.

This isn't one of those "Joe Montana vs Dan Marino" kind of arguments where one can make good arguments either way. 2nd round playoff game, against a 13-3 team in one of the toughest stadiums to play... that's a big game, and trying to say otherwise there isn't a leg to stand on.

Well, if you look into my argument on the previous page...that wasn't my entire argument. The argument was "on the road, against a good team with a good defense." Indy has typically struggled in *those* situations.

LOL, most teams would struggle in those situations. Bottomline, the skeptics won't be satisfied this year since the Colts will have homefield throughout and won't have to face anyone on the road. All they can do is play who is on their schedule and most of the games, last night included haven't been close. The Colts are the best team in the league and are getting respect from all corners but as many have mentioned the regular is the regular season now they need to take the next step in the playoffs....

Like I've said about 5 times in this thread, this skeptic will be satisfied if they win the Super Bowl...or even a meaningful road game against Seattle (which I just don't think will mean anything).

 

[Workhorse]

They are a very talented team who have been among the most injury-free squads I've seen in ages.The Colts this year have just one game lost to injury by an offensive starter (Dallas Clark, season opener). And if Joseph Jefferson is counted as a starter at safety, Colts defensive starters have missed just six games due to injury (all by Jefferson). -- From boston.com.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Like I said before the game in the game thread...this game would've been a lot more interesting if it was in Pittsburgh.

This doesn't prove anything. The knock on Indy all along was that they couldn't win big games *on the road*. Granted, they might not have to play a big game out of Indy until the Super Bowl. Jacksonville's close, but without Lefty, I don't see this as being a big game, either...just like NE wasn't without half their defense.

who needs to win on the road when they will get home field?

even in Pitt it would have been an indy win. they made pitt look like houston.

 

[bobspruill]

Like I said before the game in the game thread...this game would've been a lot more interesting if it was in Pittsburgh.

This doesn't prove anything.  The knock on Indy all along was that they couldn't win big games *on the road*.  Granted, they might not have to play a big game out of Indy until the Super Bowl.  Jacksonville's close, but without Lefty, I don't see this as being a big game, either...just like NE wasn't without half their defense.

who needs to win on the road when they will get home field?

even in Pitt it would have been an indy win. they made pitt look like houston.

I have to agree here. Big Ben was not at his best, and there were some very questionable calls in the second half (onside kick is acceptable, though very risky; that 4th-down QB draw was a disgrace--the sign of a signal-caller who doesn't in his heart of hearts believe they can win the game).Nevertheless, the Colts hit the field playing lights-out. Impressive as that was, it was more impressive still when Pitt mounted challenges, and Indy always had answers. Peyton got frustrated with all the Cover-2, fake bitzes, and 2- or 3-man rushes he was seeing, but they were still able to extend the lead. The Colts D played superbly, although the Pitt offense was also exposed a bit last night. I was never a big Burress guy when he was a Steeler, but you can tell they miss him.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Like I said before the game in the game thread...this game would've been a lot more interesting if it was in Pittsburgh.

This doesn't prove anything. The knock on Indy all along was that they couldn't win big games *on the road*. Granted, they might not have to play a big game out of Indy until the Super Bowl. Jacksonville's close, but without Lefty, I don't see this as being a big game, either...just like NE wasn't without half their defense.

who needs to win on the road when they will get home field?

even in Pitt it would have been an indy win. they made pitt look like houston.

No, they didn't. Pittsburgh had Manning *really* struggling for a while, and that could've compounded on the road.From my earlier post:

Well, I'm not a fan of either team. I rooted for the Colts last night, because I do like them, but I like other teams more. The location might have *seriously* altered the outcome of that game. The game turned on false start penalties in the first half on Pittsburgh, which put them down, and put Indy in good enough field position to kick field goals, and lead by 9 at halftime.Since the road team was behind at halftime, Cowher decided to take chances...like the onside kick that set up the second Colts touchdown. If he's at home, does he take that chance? Most likely not. After that, Pittsburgh turned the ball over, and got out of their game plan because they were forced to throw--being so far behind, and on the road.So, the game could have been *much* closer in Pittsburgh.

 

[Joe Bryant]

You said...

But they haven't beaten anyone with a winning record...or

But they haven't beaten a good offense....or

But they haven't played a smashmouth team like the Stillers...

WELL...

Now they have, does this give you doubters enough to finally give the Colts the respect they deserve?

Haters, hate on loud and proud.

Hi Pizza,Was thinking about this on the way to work this morning. #1, I think the Colts get tons of respect. Virtually everyone has them ranked as their #1 team and they're the easy favorites for Super Bowl champs. It's not really even close. There will always be people who don't like them for some reason but I believe they're getting the proper respect by and large.

Secondly, if they do happen to go all the way and win the Super Bowl, be ready to hear this: "They're a finesse team built for a dome. Let them win an outdoor Super Bowl and then I'll believe..."

J

 

[Kit Fisto]

You said...

But they haven't beaten anyone with a winning record...or

But they haven't beaten a good offense....or

But they haven't played a smashmouth team like the Stillers...

WELL...

Now they have, does this give you doubters enough to finally give the Colts the respect they deserve?

Haters, hate on loud and proud.

Hi Pizza,Was thinking about this on the way to work this morning. #1, I think the Colts get tons of respect. Virtually everyone has them ranked as their #1 team and they're the easy favorites for Super Bowl champs. It's not really even close. There will always be people who don't like them for some reason but I believe they're getting the proper respect by and large.

Secondly, if they do happen to go all the way and win the Super Bowl, be ready to hear this: "They're a finesse team built for a dome. Let them win an outdoor Super Bowl and then I'll believe..."

J

While I also agree that the Colts deserve respect (and as a bigtime Pats homer, that kills me to say) I think we're all being a bit premature on annointing them champs this early. They still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield, and then they will get two tough playoff games, albeit at home or not (maybe another game with NE?).

 

[Marc Levin]

You said...

But they haven't beaten anyone with a winning record...or

But they haven't beaten a good offense....or

But they haven't played a smashmouth team like the Stillers...

WELL...

Now they have, does this give you doubters enough to finally give the Colts the respect they deserve?

Haters, hate on loud and proud.

who ever doubted the Colts?idjits?

after they beat New England, I think the discussion of whether they were the top team in the AFC should have been over.

Edit to add: IIRC, they were MANY prognosticators' call for AFC representative before the season even started.

 

[Marc Levin]

then they will get two tough playoff games, albeit at home or not (maybe another game with NE?).

Well, if that happens, they'll have only one tough playoff game.

 

[Kit Fisto]

then they will get two tough playoff games, albeit at home or not (maybe another game with NE?).

Well, if that happens, they'll have only one tough playoff game.

ha, ha, ha... but you know the last team Manning wants to see is the Pats, banged up or not.

 

[Marc Levin]

then they will get two tough playoff games, albeit at home or not (maybe another game with NE?).

Well, if that happens, they'll have only one tough playoff game.

ha, ha, ha... but you know the last team Manning wants to see is the Pats, banged up or not.

True - I do agree with that.But I honeslty don't believe the Pats will be able to do more than squeak by their first round opponent - and whether or not Manning "wants to" see them, I don't think the Colts will have even the slightest bit of problems handily beating NE in Indy in January.

 

[djcolts]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax and the Titans.

 

[Marc Levin]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax.

IMO, two more wins by the colts wil be enough to get them homefield over everyone else.

I don't see any other team getting 13 winsPLUS winning tiebreakers. With one oif those next two wins being an AFC win, the Colts probably will win any tiebreakers v. Denver.

14 wins clinches home field - 13 is probably enough.

 

[cgh3rd]

Win Super Bowl and they'll get all the respect they deserve.

 

[Marc Levin]

Win Super Bowl and they'll get all the respect they deserve.

If they fail to get to the super bowl, they will continue to be considered a second rate AFC team - if they get to, but fail to win, the super bowl, they will still lose a lot of respect.

 

[djcolts]

Win Super Bowl and they'll get all the respect they deserve.

If they fail to get to the super bowl, they will continue to be considered a second rate AFC team - if they get to, but fail to win, the super bowl, they will still lose a lot of respect.

As much as super-high expectations make me uncomfortable - that ship has sailed. The Colts have had a charmed season so far with virtually every break going their way so far. They have to finish the job this season.

 

[Kit Fisto]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax and the Titans.

Yeah, you're right, this is true. If they get to 14 wins, it should be a slam dunk. But they can go 13-3 fellas. Don't put the cart before the horse. Jax, SD and Sea will all be tough games.Out of curiosity, what makes you say they have the tie-breaker over Denver if they both go 14-2? Who did Denver lose to? Miami and...

 

[jonessed]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax and the Titans.

Yeah, you're right, this is true. If they get to 14 wins, it should be a slam dunk. But they can go 13-3 fellas. Don't put the cart before the horse. Jax, SD and Sea will all be tough games.Out of curiosity, what makes you say they have the tie-breaker over Denver if they both go 14-2? Who did Denver lose to? Miami and...

The Giants. I don't think Denver can win out though. Their tougher games are on the road now @KC and @SD. I think they lose at least one of those.

 

[Kit Fisto]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax and the Titans.

Yeah, you're right, this is true. If they get to 14 wins, it should be a slam dunk. But they can go 13-3 fellas. Don't put the cart before the horse. Jax, SD and Sea will all be tough games.Out of curiosity, what makes you say they have the tie-breaker over Denver if they both go 14-2? Who did Denver lose to? Miami and...

The Giants. I don't think Denver can win out though. Their tougher games are on the road now @KC and @SD. I think they lose at least one of those.

You mean to say "hope they lose"... Realistically, what do you think the Colts will do? Now that Leftwich is gone, the Jax game doesn't look as tough, but they are a good "team". I think stopping LT2 and Seattle @ Seattle will be big, big challenges for Indy.

 

[djcolts]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax and the Titans.

Yeah, you're right, this is true. If they get to 14 wins, it should be a slam dunk. But they can go 13-3 fellas. Don't put the cart before the horse. Jax, SD and Sea will all be tough games.Out of curiosity, what makes you say they have the tie-breaker over Denver if they both go 14-2? Who did Denver lose to? Miami and...

If the Colts start 14-0, their last two games are non-conference games, and Denver would have a conference loss - so in that scenario the Colts would win the TB.If the Colts start 13-0, and Denver loses to @KC, then at worst case there would be a 3-way tie between division winners Indy, Denver and Cincy.

Indy would only have at most one conference loss, and Denver and Cincy would have at least 2 conference losses so regardless of how they sort out the 3-way mess, the Colts would get the #1 seed.

The next 2 games are still important for the Colts because they are division games (and therefore conference games).

 

[JohnnyU]

Driving into work this morning heard this gem:

"Still not sold on Peyton till he wins a big game, on the road.."

First they say .. He's nothing till he beat the Pats, does so and it's "well, they aren't the same Pats"

next - he can't win against good teams on the road - Beats The Bengals and it's "Well it was the bengals after all"

Then - He can't beat a physical team - Destory's The Steelers and it's "Well, it was at home, till he does it on the raod I won't believe"

Unfortunatly for most naysayers, he won't be considered a good QB in thier books till they win the Super Bowl..

They are well on their way...

Nope, winning the Super Bowl won't even do it. The naysayers will then be saying, "That's only 1 Super Bowl, pretty boy has 3".

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done. Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable. How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? I like watching THIS version of the Colts. Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen. Simon was a key veteran acquisition. But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

 

[djcolts]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done.  Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.  

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? 

I like watching THIS version of the Colts.  Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen.  Simon was a key veteran acquisition.  But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Edit: As I've said several times in this thread - if they don't win the Super Bowl this year, it is a failure. It would be worse than any of the other times they fell short. Way worse. If you have HFA and you are supposed to win the thing, you have to finish the job.

 

[Wadsworth]

Driving into work this morning heard this gem:

"Still not sold on Peyton till he wins a big game, on the road.."

First they say .. He's nothing till he beat the Pats, does so and it's "well, they aren't the same Pats"

next - he can't win against good teams on the road - Beats The Bengals and it's "Well it was the bengals after all"

Then - He can't beat a physical team - Destory's The Steelers and it's "Well, it was at home, till he does it on the raod I won't believe"

Unfortunatly for most naysayers, he won't be considered a good QB in thier books till they win the Super Bowl..

They are well on their way... 

Nope, winning the Super Bowl won't even do it. The naysayers will then be saying, "That's only 1 Super Bowl, pretty boy has 3".

It's really quite simple, win the Super Bowl, at the least get to the Super Bowl. That's what great teams do. Remember 'The Drive" and "The Fumble"? That was a really good browns team that never made it to the Super Bowl. If they had people would remember them as something besides Elway's catapult to stardom. The colts have pretty much this season and next season before cap issues start to seriously eat at talent level. They need to get it done. If they don't they won't ever get the respect they perhaps deserve and some colts fans seem to crave.Right now they are the best team in the NFL. They have easily earned that title. But if they lose in the playoffs it won't matter a bit except to further fuel the idea that the colts can't win the big one.

 

[djcolts]

Driving into work this morning heard this gem:

"Still not sold on Peyton till he wins a big game, on the road.."

First they say .. He's nothing till he beat the Pats, does so and it's "well, they aren't the same Pats"

next - he can't win against good teams on the road - Beats The Bengals and it's "Well it was the bengals after all"

Then - He can't beat a physical team - Destory's The Steelers and it's "Well, it was at home, till he does it on the raod I won't believe"

Unfortunatly for most naysayers, he won't be considered a good QB in thier books till they win the Super Bowl..

They are well on their way... 

Nope, winning the Super Bowl won't even do it. The naysayers will then be saying, "That's only 1 Super Bowl, pretty boy has 3".

I don't agree. See: Young, Steve (and to some extent, Favre, Brett). Winning the Super Bowl would be enough.

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done.  Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.  

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? 

I like watching THIS version of the Colts.  Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen.  Simon was a key veteran acquisition.  But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Sorry, while you make a good arguement, I'm not buying. Good teams win at home, but GREAT teams win on the road and in the playoffs. Not just the regular season.

 

[djcolts]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done.  Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.  

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? 

I like watching THIS version of the Colts.  Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen.  Simon was a key veteran acquisition.  But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Sorry, while you make a good arguement, I'm not buying. Good teams win at home, but GREAT teams win on the road and in the playoffs. Not just the regular season.

They were a bad team that made the playoffs in 2002 by strange circumstances (Steve Young called them the worst team to ever make the playoffs - and he was right). In 2003, they did win a playoff road game, then lost to the eventual champs on the road. In 2004, they lost to the eventual champs on the road. No question they weren't a great team in any of those years - but great teams usually have 1st round byes, also.

 

[Marc Levin]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done.  Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.  

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? 

I like watching THIS version of the Colts.  Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen.  Simon was a key veteran acquisition.  But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Sorry, while you make a good arguement, I'm not buying. Good teams win at home, but GREAT teams win on the road and in the playoffs. Not just the regular season.

no - not really.Great teams win the super bowl. Period. Chicago Bears never won on the road in the playoffs, but they were a great team b/c they gave up only 10 points on their way to winning the Super Bowl after going 15-1.

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done.  Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.  

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? 

I like watching THIS version of the Colts.  Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen.  Simon was a key veteran acquisition.  But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Sorry, while you make a good arguement, I'm not buying. Good teams win at home, but GREAT teams win on the road and in the playoffs. Not just the regular season.

They were a bad team that made the playoffs in 2002 by strange circumstances (Steve Young called them the worst team to ever make the playoffs - and he was right). In 2003, they did win a playoff road game, then lost to the eventual champs on the road. In 2004, they lost to the eventual champs on the road. No question they weren't a great team in any of those years - but great teams usually have 1st round byes, also.

OK, let me just say that I want to see the Colts win and I really think this team has a great chance. I also would like to see Peyton & Dungy get that monkey off their back. But to sit here and demand respect for a team that has chocked time and time again (on the road or not), is asking a little much from the posters on this site.

 

[Marc Levin]

OK, let me just say that I want to see the Colts win and I really think this team has a great chance. I also would like to see Peyton & Dungy get that monkey off their back. But to sit here and demand respect for a team that has chocked time and time again (on the road or not), is asking a little much from the posters on this site.

If they fall short of the Bowl this year, they will be "the same old Colts" and Manning will be the "same ole QB who can't win the big game."

I suffered through it for years with Marino - and he NEVER had close to the team that this Colts team represents. Thios Colts team basically HAS Marino in his prime with Duper and Clayton - but iot also has a better runnin ggame than those teams ever had and a SIGNIFICANTLY better defense.

There are no excuses for this Colts team - its the Super Bowl or they lose all the respect they gained this year.

 

[djcolts]

OK, let me just say that I want to see the Colts win and I really think this team has a great chance.  I also would like to see Peyton & Dungy get that monkey off their back.  But to sit here and demand respect for a team that has chocked time and time again (on the road or not), is asking a little much from the posters on this site.

If they fall short of the Bowl this year, they will be "the same old Colts" and Manning will be the "same ole QB who can't win the big game."

I suffered through it for years with Marino - and he NEVER had close to the team that this Colts team represents. Thios Colts team basically HAS Marino in his prime with Duper and Clayton - but iot also has a better runnin ggame than those teams ever had and a SIGNIFICANTLY better defense.

There are no excuses for this Colts team - its the Super Bowl or they lose all the respect they gained this year.

I agree with both of you that they have to do it this year. As for respect - I don't care about that - I'm a little sensitve to the "choke" word, though. But, if they don't do it this year, "choke" would truly be appropriate, and I won't argue with that term. I don't like that this is the case, but I think I'm fair (for a fan of the team).

 

[Marc Levin]

OK, let me just say that I want to see the Colts win and I really think this team has a great chance.  I also would like to see Peyton & Dungy get that monkey off their back.  But to sit here and demand respect for a team that has chocked time and time again (on the road or not), is asking a little much from the posters on this site.

If they fall short of the Bowl this year, they will be "the same old Colts" and Manning will be the "same ole QB who can't win the big game."

I suffered through it for years with Marino - and he NEVER had close to the team that this Colts team represents. Thios Colts team basically HAS Marino in his prime with Duper and Clayton - but iot also has a better runnin ggame than those teams ever had and a SIGNIFICANTLY better defense.

There are no excuses for this Colts team - its the Super Bowl or they lose all the respect they gained this year.

I agree with both of you that they have to do it this year. As for respect - I don't care about that - I'm a little sensitve to the "choke" word, though. But, if they don't do it this year, "choke" would truly be appropriate, and I won't argue with that term. I don't like that this is the case, but I think I'm fair (for a fan of the team).

and you are preaching to the choir.I was very objective - all those years Marino came up short of the Bowl, it was easy to see that Marino was playing his butt off and the rest of the team was flat. It should be just as easy to see that when the Colts went into NE all those years, the rest of the team played well, but Manning was flat (and confused).

If they fall short of the Bowl this year, choke is the only word that could come to mind - whether its the team that chokes, or Manning, is what is yet to be seen.

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done.  Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.  

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that? 

I like watching THIS version of the Colts.  Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen.  Simon was a key veteran acquisition.  But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Sorry, while you make a good arguement, I'm not buying. Good teams win at home, but GREAT teams win on the road and in the playoffs. Not just the regular season.

no - not really.Great teams win the super bowl. Period. Chicago Bears never won on the road in the playoffs, but they were a great team b/c they gave up only 10 points on their way to winning the Super Bowl after going 15-1.

That Chicago team would have won no matter where the games where played...I was just trying to make a point about this Colts team...not all teams. I guess it wouldnt really matter anyways, as they will be playing at home come playoff time.

 

[Marc Levin]

exactly - my poiont is that not winning a playoff road game or a "big game on the road" means absolutely NOTHING to whether the team is a great team.Go 12-0, get home field through the playoffs, win the Bowl, you are a great team. You think the 80s/90s '9ers or Cowbvoys had to win on the road to be "great" teams?Nope.

 

[Gamblor]

Dont forget all the choking this Colts team has done. Dungy is a great guy and so is Peyton, but both of their playoff/big game careers are questionable.

How does ANY amount of wins during one REGULAR season change that?

I like watching THIS version of the Colts. Peyton is awesome to watch and one of the best QBs I've ever seen. Simon was a key veteran acquisition. But Like most logical fans, I'll wait until Manning/Dungy/& the Colts prove it in the playoffs with a SB win, where coaching and not choking might be the difference.

Peyton had a 1st round bye once when the team was young, dumb, not nearly as good as their record, and lost their best defensive player in a meaningless final regular season game. I don't think Dungy ever got a 1st round bye (Buc fans, do you know this - I know they didn't have HFA in the Dungy era)?Look at the history of the NFL since 1990 (meaning 12-team playoffs) and I can't think of a team besides the 2000 Ravens (maybe the 1997 Broncos - I don't remember) that won the Super Bowl since 1990 that played on WC weekend. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Also, as ugly as the 3 Dungy/Manning era Colts playoff exits were, they were on the road - meaning they were supposed to lose.

Sorry, while you make a good arguement, I'm not buying. Good teams win at home, but GREAT teams win on the road and in the playoffs. Not just the regular season.

Great teams never win on the road in the playoffs, cause great teams should never be in position to play on the road.

 

[Marc Levin]

exactly - even though the Pats winning in Steeler land last year and then winning the Bowl was a sign of a great team, that is the EXCEPTION not the rule.If the Colts had been a "great team" and had won on the road one of the last few years, the Pats woudl NOT be a great team - they'd have been one-time "lucky" Super Bowl winners.Taking care of home field advantage and taking care of your home field in the playoffs is the sign of a great team.

 

[nortobc]

Driving into work this morning heard this gem:

"Still not sold on Peyton till he wins a big game, on the road.."

First they say .. He's nothing till he beat the Pats, does so and it's "well, they aren't the same Pats"

next - he can't win against good teams on the road - Beats The Bengals and it's "Well it was the bengals after all"

Then - He can't beat a physical team - Destory's The Steelers and it's "Well, it was at home, till he does it on the raod I won't believe"

Unfortunatly for most naysayers, he won't be considered a good QB in thier books till they win the Super Bowl..

They are well on their way...

But the Superbowl will be indoors so I still will not be sold on Peyton...

 

[Marc Levin]

Driving into work this morning heard this gem:

"Still not sold on Peyton till he wins a big game, on the road.."

First they say .. He's nothing till he beat the Pats, does so and it's "well, they aren't the same Pats"

next - he can't win against good teams on the road - Beats The Bengals and it's "Well it was the bengals after all"

Then - He can't beat a physical team - Destory's The Steelers and it's "Well, it was at home, till he does it on the raod I won't believe"

Unfortunatly for most naysayers, he won't be considered a good QB in thier books till they win the Super Bowl..

They are well on their way... 

But the Superbowl will be indoors so I still will not be sold on Peyton...

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

exactly - even though the Pats winning in Steeler land last year and then winning the Bowl was a sign of a great team, that is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

If the Colts had been a "great team" and had won on the road one of the last few years, the Pats woudl NOT be a great team - they'd have been one-time "lucky" Super Bowl winners.

Taking care of home field advantage and taking care of your home field in the playoffs is the sign of a great team.

One little comment is taking away from my whole argument! But I'll keeep it going anyways. Marc, I disagree with your last statement. You can lock up home field and win all the regular season games you want. But if you dont win the SB, your just another good team. FWIW, didnt the pats go to steeler land in 2001 as well? Winning on the road in the playoffs is the exception and a great accomplishment in my book. But after that 2001 victory and eventual SB win, many still didnt think that Pats team was worthy. So why should anyone buy into a Colts team that hasnt done much of anything (when it counts)?

 

[Kit Fisto]

I'm sorry but any point(s) you try making lose a lot of credibility when you keep calling them the clots. You may like or dislike a team but when you make little bashes like that in an otherwise objective post it makes you come across as nothing more than a biased hater.

Cry me a river, pal. I've been hearing "Patsies" for years.

 

[Marc Levin]

exactly - even though the Pats winning in Steeler land last year and then winning the Bowl was a sign of a great team, that is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

If the Colts had been a "great team" and had won on the road one of the last few years, the Pats woudl NOT be a great team - they'd have been one-time "lucky" Super Bowl winners.

Taking care of home field advantage and taking care of your home field in the playoffs is the sign of a great team.

One little comment is taking away from my whole argument! But I'll keeep it going anyways. Marc, I disagree with your last statement. You can lock up home field and win all the regular season games you want. But if you dont win the SB, your just another good team. FWIW, didnt the pats go to steeler land in 2001 as well? Winning on the road in the playoffs is the exception and a great accomplishment in my book. But after that 2001 victory and eventual SB win, many still didnt think that Pats team was worthy. So why should anyone buy into a Colts team that hasnt done much of anything (when it counts)?

b/c that year it seemed clear that the Rams should and would win the Bowl - everyone considered a lucky drive to have been why the Pats won the Bowl.That turned out only to be the beginning, of course, but the point is that the Colts have been the class of the league all year long so far - if they go on to win the Bowl this year, they wil not be perceived as lucky - they will be perceived as the DOMINANT NFL team in 2005.

The Pats were anything BUT dominant in 2001. They seemed to have been given a gift win against Oakland and then a lucky win against the Rams. That was the perception.

 

[Marc Levin]

exactly - even though the Pats winning in Steeler land last year and then winning the Bowl was a sign of a great team, that is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

If the Colts had been a "great team" and had won on the road one of the last few years, the Pats woudl NOT be a great team - they'd have been one-time "lucky" Super Bowl winners.

Taking care of home field advantage and taking care of your home field in the playoffs is the sign of a great team.

One little comment is taking away from my whole argument! But I'll keeep it going anyways. Marc, I disagree with your last statement. You can lock up home field and win all the regular season games you want. But if you dont win the SB, your just another good team.

I fully agree here, actually - I should have said "and win the Bowl" - though the 2001 Rams were a great team, had home field, won at home into the Bowl, lost the Bowl. Also, the Bills often had homefield throughout and made the Bowl and those teams are considered great teams.

 

[Kit Fisto]

still have to beat Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego before they even get homefield

Not really true. If the Colts start 14-0 - they have home field regardless of what Denver does. If Denver loses @KC this week (or loses to the Ravens - fat chance) and the Colts win the next two games, they have home field, also after week 14 - meaning they'd only have to beat Jax and the Titans.

Yeah, you're right, this is true. If they get to 14 wins, it should be a slam dunk. But they can go 13-3 fellas. Don't put the cart before the horse. Jax, SD and Sea will all be tough games.Out of curiosity, what makes you say they have the tie-breaker over Denver if they both go 14-2? Who did Denver lose to? Miami and...

If the Colts start 14-0, their last two games are non-conference games, and Denver would have a conference loss - so in that scenario the Colts would win the TB.If the Colts start 13-0, and Denver loses to @KC, then at worst case there would be a 3-way tie between division winners Indy, Denver and Cincy.

Indy would only have at most one conference loss, and Denver and Cincy would have at least 2 conference losses so regardless of how they sort out the 3-way mess, the Colts would get the #1 seed.

The next 2 games are still important for the Colts because they are division games (and therefore conference games).

thank you.

 

[Marc Levin]

I'm sorry but any point(s) you try making lose a lot of credibility when you keep calling them the clots.  You may like or dislike a team but when you make little bashes like that in an otherwise objective post it makes you come across as nothing more than a biased hater.

Cry me a river, pal. I've been hearing "Patsies" for years.

As a fin fan, they have been the Clots for years for lots of my fellow fans, too (actually, I usually called them the "ponies" not the colts).

 

[Kit Fisto]

Guys, like I said, don't get too far ahead of yourselves here. The Colts are enjoying a nice run and look unstoppable, but it'll mean nada unless they get to (and/or win) the SuperBowl.Ask Steelers fans what 15-1 got them last year.

 

[Marc Levin]

Guys, like I said, don't get too far ahead of yourselves here. The Colts are enjoying a nice run and look unstoppable, but it'll mean nada unless they get to (and/or win) the SuperBowl.

Ask Steelers fans what 15-1 got them last year.

And flip side - undefeated doesn't mean crap without the Bowl. Just as the '85 Bears if they care about losing to the phins in week 13.BTW, NOONE is ahead of themselves - every post in the last few pages acknowledges that the Colts withotu the Bowl means nothing - in fact that has been the entire discussion going on these last two pages.

 

[harrycarey]

What I've learned from this thread.... ignore Keys Myaths and Warsteinner. Oh yeah.. Im a Colts fan so go Colts but I am nervous because they will never win back any respect if they don't win it all this year.

 

[DerangedGridironGeek]

exactly - even though the Pats winning in Steeler land last year and then winning the Bowl was a sign of a great team, that is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

If the Colts had been a "great team" and had won on the road one of the last few years, the Pats woudl NOT be a great team - they'd have been one-time "lucky" Super Bowl winners.

Taking care of home field advantage and taking care of your home field in the playoffs is the sign of a great team.

One little comment is taking away from my whole argument! But I'll keeep it going anyways. Marc, I disagree with your last statement. You can lock up home field and win all the regular season games you want. But if you dont win the SB, your just another good team. FWIW, didnt the pats go to steeler land in 2001 as well? Winning on the road in the playoffs is the exception and a great accomplishment in my book. But after that 2001 victory and eventual SB win, many still didnt think that Pats team was worthy. So why should anyone buy into a Colts team that hasnt done much of anything (when it counts)?

b/c that year it seemed clear that the Rams should and would win the Bowl - everyone considered a lucky drive to have been why the Pats won the Bowl.That turned out only to be the beginning, of course, but the point is that the Colts have been the class of the league all year long so far - if they go on to win the Bowl this year, they wil not be perceived as lucky - they will be perceived as the DOMINANT NFL team in 2005.

The Pats were anything BUT dominant in 2001. They seemed to have been given a gift win against Oakland and then a lucky win against the Rams. That was the perception.

While I've pointed to all the losing and choking the ponies have done, I cant deny that this version of a Peyton lead team is by far the best and that they have improved each and every year. They are THE team to beat regardless of who the current Champion is (and I'm from NE).I agree that the 2001 Pats were anything but dominant and they caught a lucky break, but the Rams win was anything but lucky and regardless of perception - the fact that they beat a offensive powerhouse like "the greatest show on turf" in a SB was a sign of a great team that many choose to ignore. While I dont totally discount the Colts achievements to this point, they have much more to prove and I truly hope they get there (If my Pats dont).

 

[P Boy]

Which teams are the 3 of the top 4? Rankings of the teams using Scripps Howard poll:Sep 11 @#25 BaltimoreSep 18 #5 JacksonvilleSep 25 #22 ClevelandOct 2 @ #28 TennesseeOct 9 @ #30 San FranciscoOct 17 #19 St. LouisOct 23 @ #32 HoustonWeek 8 BYENov 7 @ #15 New EnglandNov 13 #32 HoustonNov 20 @ #7 CincinnatiNov 28 #10 Pittsburgh

 

[Marc Levin]

exactly - even though the Pats winning in Steeler land last year and then winning the Bowl was a sign of a great team, that is the EXCEPTION not the rule.

If the Colts had been a "great team" and had won on the road one of the last few years, the Pats woudl NOT be a great team - they'd have been one-time "lucky" Super Bowl winners.

Taking care of home field advantage and taking care of your home field in the playoffs is the sign of a great team.

One little comment is taking away from my whole argument! But I'll keeep it going anyways. Marc, I disagree with your last statement. You can lock up home field and win all the regular season games you want. But if you dont win the SB, your just another good team. FWIW, didnt the pats go to steeler land in 2001 as well? Winning on the road in the playoffs is the exception and a great accomplishment in my book. But after that 2001 victory and eventual SB win, many still didnt think that Pats team was worthy. So why should anyone buy into a Colts team that hasnt done much of anything (when it counts)?

b/c that year it seemed clear that the Rams should and would win the Bowl - everyone considered a lucky drive to have been why the Pats won the Bowl.That turned out only to be the beginning, of course, but the point is that the Colts have been the class of the league all year long so far - if they go on to win the Bowl this year, they wil not be perceived as lucky - they will be perceived as the DOMINANT NFL team in 2005.

The Pats were anything BUT dominant in 2001. They seemed to have been given a gift win against Oakland and then a lucky win against the Rams. That was the perception.

While I've pointed to all the losing and choking the ponies have done, I cant deny that this version of a Peyton lead team is by far the best and that they have improved each and every year. They are THE team to beat regardless of who the current Champion is (and I'm from NE).I agree that the 2001 Pats were anything but dominant and they caught a lucky break, but the Rams win was anything but lucky and regardless of perception - the fact that they beat a offensive powerhouse like "the greatest show on turf" in a SB was a sign of a great team that many choose to ignore. While I dont totally discount the Colts achievements to this point, they have much more to prove and I truly hope they get there (If my Pats dont).

and the gift to get there v. the Raiders? The Pats had a LOT of lucky breaks in 2001.