Observations from grand jury duty in a smallish county. (1 Viewer)

[Rustoleum]

Two observations so far:

1.Bill and Ted were prescient, or maybe time travel is indeed real. In other words, something strange is definitely afoot at Circle K. Seriously, an alarming amount of cases touched the local Circle K at some point, and it is literally right across the street from a police station.

2. It’s tough seeing names/families you know come across the case list. Especially when you know you aren’t really getting the whole context of the matter at hand and have to contain it the threshold of probable cause and hope it if goes to a trial, the jury there gets the whole picture

More to come as I serve every Thursday for the rest of my life (or October, whichever comes first).

 

[shuke]

Two observations so far:

1.Bill and Ted were prescient, or maybe time travel is indeed real. In other words, something strange is definitely afoot at Circle K. Seriously, an alarming amount of cases touched the local Circle K at some point, and it is literally right across the street from a police station.

2. It’s tough seeing names/families you know come across the case list. Especially when you know you aren’t really getting the whole context of the matter at hand and have to contain it the threshold of probable cause and hope it if goes to a trial, the jury there gets the whole picture

More to come as I serve every Thursday for the rest of my life (or October, whichever comes first).

Just one day a week? What county?

 

[arrow1]

.

 

[El Floppo]

Black dot of justice.

 

[Rustoleum]

Two observations so far:

1.Bill and Ted were prescient, or maybe time travel is indeed real. In other words, something strange is definitely afoot at Circle K. Seriously, an alarming amount of cases touched the local Circle K at some point, and it is literally right across the street from a police station.

2. It’s tough seeing names/families you know come across the case list. Especially when you know you aren’t really getting the whole context of the matter at hand and have to contain it the threshold of probable cause and hope it if goes to a trial, the jury there gets the whole picture

More to come as I serve every Thursday for the rest of my life (or October, whichever comes first).

Just one day a week? What county?

Campbell, KY. Last week we were done before 11, as there were under 10 cases to be presented.

Much easier to plan my work schedule knowing it’ll be just that day every week at least.

No idea how I would’ve managed if it was regular jury duty and I got selected for a big trial.


Lotsa meth cases though….depressing.

 

[-fish-]

Two observations so far:

1.Bill and Ted were prescient, or maybe time travel is indeed real. In other words, something strange is definitely afoot at Circle K. Seriously, an alarming amount of cases touched the local Circle K at some point, and it is literally right across the street from a police station.

2. It’s tough seeing names/families you know come across the case list. Especially when you know you aren’t really getting the whole context of the matter at hand and have to contain it the threshold of probable cause and hope it if goes to a trial, the jury there gets the whole picture

More to come as I serve every Thursday for the rest of my life (or October, whichever comes first).

Just one day a week? What county?

grand juries are usually convened once a week for 18 months.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

 

[nirad3]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

It's this (click me)

 

[Zow]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

It's generally 10-15 or so regular citizens who simply review the State's evidence, in "secret," to determine whether probable cause exists in felony cases. In other words, they're just supposed to gatekeep incredibly weak from being charged by the prosecutors office. Generally, though, by the end of their session they basically rubber stamp most cases for charging (which is where the "you can indict a ham sandwich" phrase arose from).

While they serve an important function, there really isn't anything "grand" about them and in most jurisdictions they can be bypassed with a preliminary hearing.

 

[Rustoleum]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

It's this (click me)

I’m there earlier than most of the rest of the jurors. I should start playing that as they come in, but alas, I don’t have the nerve. Commonwealth attorney says we’re too quiet though. That would certainly liven things up.

 

[Rustoleum]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

It's generally 10-15 or so regular citizens who simply review the State's evidence, in "secret," to determine whether probable cause exists in felony cases. In other words, they're just supposed to gatekeep incredibly weak from being charged by the prosecutors office. Generally, though, by the end of their session they basically rubber stamp most cases for charging (which is where the "you can indict a ham sandwich" phrase arose from).

While they serve an important function, there really isn't anything "grand" about them and in most jurisdictions they can be bypassed with a preliminary hearing.

Hey man, don’t besmirch my civic duty.That’s a hard earned $12 per diem, which I have to hand over to my employer.

Guess that should be expected from a defense attorney.

But yeah, I will be shocked if we return a “no true bill” on anything. So far, we asked them to slightly reword something but the end result was really the same. Think it was more a case of it being the first day and a couple people having to figure out that “probable cause” is a super low bar to clear and “reasonable doubt” is another jury’s job.

 

[simey]

But yeah, I will be shocked if we return a “no true bill” on anything. So far, we asked them to slightly reword something but the end result was really the same. Think it was more a case of it being the first day and a couple people having to figure out that “probable cause” is a super low bar to clear and “reasonable doubt” is another jury’s job.

I was on the grand jury for 12 months back in 2008, and we indicted everyone. I served in a city, and I'm not sure if they do this in a small town, but we had to take a tour of the jailhouse. We actually had to do it twice, because 9 jurors rotated every 6 months. Did you or are you going to have to take a tour of the jailhouse?

 

[Rustoleum]

But yeah, I will be shocked if we return a “no true bill” on anything. So far, we asked them to slightly reword something but the end result was really the same. Think it was more a case of it being the first day and a couple people having to figure out that “probable cause” is a super low bar to clear and “reasonable doubt” is another jury’s job.

I was on the grand jury for 12 months back in 2008, and we indicted everyone. I served in a city, and I'm not sure if they do this in a small town, but we had to take a tour of the jailhouse. We actually had to do it twice, because 9 jurors rotated every 6 months. Did you or are you going to have to take a tour of the jailhouse?

No. We convened in a courtroom where all the jurors for this session were called and the grand jurors selected from the general pool and sworn in ( think those of us with the least amount of requested days off had a leg up here).

Then we went down to the grand jury room and had a short orientation and got the “official” informational pamphlet and parking passes. Everything since then has been the grand jury room, and then up to the courtroom when we finish for the. Barges to be presented to the judge.

No tours of the county jail. I do have to visit the regional juvenile detention center in our county for work from time to time though. Just the sound of the door locks cycling as you are escorted through there is foreboding. I imagine big boy jail is 10 times worse.

 

[GroveDiesel]

My goodness. My employer would lose their mind if I had to serve jury duty one day a week for 12-18 months.

 

[BlackCrowes]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

Only Sam Waterston gets to talk

 

[Rustoleum]

My goodness. My employer would lose their mind if I had to serve jury duty one day a week for 12-18 months.

I feel bad for any hourly workers who might truly miss out on wages due to serving. For me though, grand jury is generally only half the day, and I’m in an admin position so I can mostly work around it. Also, it’s just 3 months here.

Work is probably coming out ahead since I am basically giving them $12 a week to put in at least the same 40 hours a week anyway.

I can block off 4 hours a week easy. What I can’t do is risk getting sequestered or getting a major case that might be two whole weeks and have something major go down and have 3 schools with no phones or internet.

 

[simey]

No tours of the county jail. I do have to visit the regional juvenile detention center in our county for work from time to time though. Just the sound of the door locks cycling as you are escorted through there is foreboding. I imagine big boy jail is 10 times worse.

Our jury room was inside the courthouse where we met the first Monday of every month. The jail is adjacent to the courthouse, and you walk through a tunnel to get there. There are several floors to the jailhouse. We visited both the men and women. I remember the people in the red jumpsuits are the most violent ones. There were orange and tan jumpsuits, too. Most of the women wore tan. Some of the prisoners would shout out comments, but most of them were in a holding area together waiting to go to the courtroom. There was a room where some inmates were attending class to get their GED. In the ladies part of the jail, this one woman was closed inside her cell. When we walked by her cell door window, she ran up to the window and stuck her tongue out at all of us.

 

[Rustoleum]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

Only Sam Waterston gets to talk

Sometimes steely silence and those brows alone are enough to break a man on the stand.

 

[Rustoleum]

No tours of the county jail. I do have to visit the regional juvenile detention center in our county for work from time to time though. Just the sound of the door locks cycling as you are escorted through there is foreboding. I imagine big boy jail is 10 times worse.

Our jury room was inside the courthouse where we met the first Monday of every month. The jail is adjacent to the courthouse, and you walk through a tunnel to get there. There are several floors to the jailhouse. We visited both the men and women. I remember the people in the red jumpsuits are the most violent ones. There were orange and tan jumpsuits, too. Most of the women wore tan. Some of the prisoners would shout out comments, but most of them were in a holding area together waiting to go to the courtroom. There was a room where some inmates were attending class to get their GED. In the ladies part of the jail, this one woman was closed inside her cell. When we walked by her cell door window, she ran up to the window and stuck her tongue out at all of us.

This seems a little messed up. We pretty much just have the cops testify and don’t expect to ever see one of the accused in person t all.

On the one hand, I can see an argument for that reinforcing the seriousness of the job. On the other hand, I don’t think any of them are really supposed to know who you are, even if the people you are indicting are likely out on bond and not anyone “you” put there.

 

[Rustoleum]

Also, I’ve been a registered voter in this county for 35 years. I got my first and only summons to jury duty TWO days after converting my drivers license to a Real ID.

Somehow I think this was less than random.

 

[WDIK2]

Hey man, don’t besmirch my civic duty.That’s a hard earned $12 per diem, which I have to hand over to my employer.

How does that work?

ETA: Nevermind. I figured it out.

 

[simey]

This seems a little messed up. We pretty much just have the cops testify and don’t expect to ever see one of the accused in person t all.

On the one hand, I can see an argument for that reinforcing the seriousness of the job. On the other hand, I don’t think any of them are really supposed to know who you are, even if the people you are indicting are likely out on bond and not anyone “you” put there.

We weren't going to the jail to hear any testimony. It was just part of our "duty" to examine it twice.

We heard all of the cases in the jury room. A Sgt. read most of the cases to us, and sometimes the Sherriff or deputy would talk about a case. Only once did a witness testify in person. That was on an identity theft I think.

 

[Runkle]

My goodness. My employer would lose their mind if I had to serve jury duty one day a week for 12-18 months.

I feel bad for any hourly workers who might truly miss out on wages due to serving. For me though, grand jury is generally only half the day, and I’m in an admin position so I can mostly work around it. Also, it’s just 3 months here.

Work is probably coming out ahead since I am basically giving them $12 a week to put in at least the same 40 hours a week anyway.

I can block off 4 hours a week easy. What I can’t do is risk getting sequestered or getting a major case that might be two whole weeks and have something major go down and have 3 schools with no phones or internet.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a "professional jury" alternative to the standard "12 random peers" and "bench trial" options. People of reasonable intelligence that can understand the increasingly technical and scientific evidence and who are not hardshipped by the grueling length and interminable boredom of a trial.

 

[The Z Machine]

I got called for a federal grand jury which was every day, 8 hours a day for 12 weeks. I had an executive at my company write a letter saying that was a hardship for the company and me. That got me out of serving.

I don't think employers are mandated to continue your wages while on jury duty so I wonder who can get 12 weeks of unpaid leave to serve on such a thing?

Also, I don't want to serve on any violent crime trials although I would happily serve on a white collar crime trial.

 

[Gally]

My goodness. My employer would lose their mind if I had to serve jury duty one day a week for 12-18 months.

I feel bad for any hourly workers who might truly miss out on wages due to serving. For me though, grand jury is generally only half the day, and I’m in an admin position so I can mostly work around it. Also, it’s just 3 months here.

Work is probably coming out ahead since I am basically giving them $12 a week to put in at least the same 40 hours a week anyway.

I can block off 4 hours a week easy. What I can’t do is risk getting sequestered or getting a major case that might be two whole weeks and have something major go down and have 3 schools with no phones or internet.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a "professional jury" alternative to the standard "12 random peers" and "bench trial" options. People of reasonable intelligence that can understand the increasingly technical and scientific evidence and who are not hardshipped by the grueling length and interminable boredom of a trial.

i would love to be a professional juror. The whole process of jury trials fascinates me.

 

[Zow]

No tours of the county jail. I do have to visit the regional juvenile detention center in our county for work from time to time though. Just the sound of the door locks cycling as you are escorted through there is foreboding. I imagine big boy jail is 10 times worse.

Our jury room was inside the courthouse where we met the first Monday of every month. The jail is adjacent to the courthouse, and you walk through a tunnel to get there. There are several floors to the jailhouse. We visited both the men and women. I remember the people in the red jumpsuits are the most violent ones. There were orange and tan jumpsuits, too. Most of the women wore tan. Some of the prisoners would shout out comments, but most of them were in a holding area together waiting to go to the courtroom. There was a room where some inmates were attending class to get their GED. In the ladies part of the jail, this one woman was closed inside her cell. When we walked by her cell door window, she ran up to the window and stuck her tongue out at all of us.

I've seen some stuff in women's jail pods and prison yards. I'd prefer to be on a male death row yard than the average women's yard or pod.

 

[Zow]

This seems a little messed up. We pretty much just have the cops testify and don’t expect to ever see one of the accused in person t all.

On the one hand, I can see an argument for that reinforcing the seriousness of the job. On the other hand, I don’t think any of them are really supposed to know who you are, even if the people you are indicting are likely out on bond and not anyone “you” put there.

We weren't going to the jail to hear any testimony. It was just part of our "duty" to examine it twice.

We heard all of the cases in the jury room. A Sgt. read most of the cases to us, and sometimes the Sherriff or deputy would talk about a case. Only once did a witness testify in person. That was on an identity theft I think.

1. I think that's pretty cool they have you see the jail since could be potentially a factor in seeing somebody go there. I've always advocated that us criminal attorneys and judges should spent one night in jail and one night in prison so we understand it better when we're negotiating literal years of incarceration.
2. It's very normal for a grand juror to hear from just one officer. If the grand jury hears from a civilian witness, generally that's the prosecutor trying to lock in some witness's testimony who may either change their minds or be unavailable later. A grand jury doesn't hear from a defendant because the defendant has no right to even know his matter is being reviewed in grand jury because, again, the sole function of the grand jury is simply to ensure that the State has something (i.e. the charge isn't bogus).

 

[Rustoleum]

Little bit of a bummer of a day today. Bad stuff should just never happen to kids.

Wish the docket had been all meth instead.

On a lighter note, has writing multiple checks out to “Cash”ever ended well from a bookkeeping perspective?

We did get to remove a felony burglary charge and kick a case down to the lower court today too.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

No tours of the county jail. I do have to visit the regional juvenile detention center in our county for work from time to time though. Just the sound of the door locks cycling as you are escorted through there is foreboding. I imagine big boy jail is 10 times worse.

Our jury room was inside the courthouse where we met the first Monday of every month. The jail is adjacent to the courthouse, and you walk through a tunnel to get there. There are several floors to the jailhouse. We visited both the men and women. I remember the people in the red jumpsuits are the most violent ones. There were orange and tan jumpsuits, too. Most of the women wore tan. Some of the prisoners would shout out comments, but most of them were in a holding area together waiting to go to the courtroom. There was a room where some inmates were attending class to get their GED. In the ladies part of the jail, this one woman was closed inside her cell. When we walked by her cell door window, she ran up to the window and stuck her tongue out at all of us.

I've seen some stuff in women's jail pods and prison yards. I'd prefer to be on a male death row yard than the average women's yard or po

First question: why or how have you seen stuff in a women’s jail pod?

Second question: what have you seen that would cause you to choose that over a male death row yard?

 

[Zow]

No tours of the county jail. I do have to visit the regional juvenile detention center in our county for work from time to time though. Just the sound of the door locks cycling as you are escorted through there is foreboding. I imagine big boy jail is 10 times worse.

Our jury room was inside the courthouse where we met the first Monday of every month. The jail is adjacent to the courthouse, and you walk through a tunnel to get there. There are several floors to the jailhouse. We visited both the men and women. I remember the people in the red jumpsuits are the most violent ones. There were orange and tan jumpsuits, too. Most of the women wore tan. Some of the prisoners would shout out comments, but most of them were in a holding area together waiting to go to the courtroom. There was a room where some inmates were attending class to get their GED. In the ladies part of the jail, this one woman was closed inside her cell. When we walked by her cell door window, she ran up to the window and stuck her tongue out at all of us.

I've seen some stuff in women's jail pods and prison yards. I'd prefer to be on a male death row yard than the average women's yard or po

First question: why or how have you seen stuff in a women’s jail pod?

Second question: what have you seen that would cause you to choose that over a male death row yard?

1. In many jail and prisons, especially the older ones and especially pre-Covid before many jails installed a videoconferencing booth, the attorney-client visitation booth is connected to the pod or directly on the particular prison yard. So, in order to visit a female client, I'd have to go back into the women's pod to that visitation booth (there's usually a separate walkway and level that inmates don't have access to that staff, clergy, social workers, law enforcement, and defense attorneys can utilize to navigate to the different pods). Given that the visitation booth is connected to the pod, there's usually a clear line of sight into the pod and, of course, back into the visitation booth. Further, the jail staff isn't always prompt with having the female client available so I may be in that visitation booth - again, with a line of sight into the pod - for an hour even if my client meeting only takes 20-30 minutes or whatever. In that timeframe other female inmates may see me and it was pretty common for them to flash me, cat call me, etc. Though, I have noticed a significant decrease in such as I've gotten older and more out of shape but this regularly happened when I was in my 20s.

2. This is more so from what I've heard from my female clients, through small talk with the jail guards (who unanimously prefer working the men's pods/yards), and investigative reports I've read for when a female client gets into an altercation while in custody. I would break FBG rules if I described the graphic stuff, but the short version is that sexual assault is significantly more prevalent in the women's pods and physical assaults and bullying is also more prevalent. I've also spent dozens of hours on my state's "death row" (albeit in the visitation booth) and talked to my clients about being on it. My anecdotal takeaway is that, in the men's pods or on the men's yards - including death row, bad things only happen to a male inmate if he steps out of line in some way (e.g. disrespects another inmate, causes the pod to go into lockdown because he committed a major rules infraction, etc.) but if he plays by the rules - both the literal rules of the jail and the unwritten rules the inmates impose on themselves - he's generally quite safe. In contrast, my anecdotal experience and secondhand information received suggests that women will just mess with each other for no specific reason or out of boredom.

 

[Zow]

Little bit of a bummer of a day today. Bad stuff should just never happen to kids.

Wish the docket had been all meth instead.

On a lighter note, has writing multiple checks out to “Cash”ever ended well from a bookkeeping perspective?

We did get to remove a felony burglary charge and kick a case down to the lower court today too.

Those are tough days. I believe or at least hope they spare you from seeing any videos or photos (in my State it's usually enough for the testifying officer to just describe them).

 

[Rustoleum]

Little bit of a bummer of a day today. Bad stuff should just never happen to kids.

Wish the docket had been all meth instead.

On a lighter note, has writing multiple checks out to “Cash”ever ended well from a bookkeeping perspective?

We did get to remove a felony burglary charge and kick a case down to the lower court today too.

Those are tough days. I believe or at least hope they spare you from seeing any videos or photos (in my State it's usually enough for the testifying officer to just describe them).

So, the accused actually wanted to have someone testify for him before the grand jury, (presumably along the lines of “so and so would never do that”)and they wanted to subpoena the victim to a preliminary hearing scheduled that same day.

We listened to the investigating officers testimony which also included results of a forensic interview between a child specialist and the victim and it definitely met probable cause for us.

hopefully that made the preliminary thing moot and that kid is spared that at least until any actual trial.

 

[General Malaise]

I’ve seen most episodes of law and order and I still don’t really understand what a grand jury even is

Me either. I always just nod my head in agreement when I hear the term but I have no idea what they are either.

 

[Rustoleum]

Justice dispensed in under 2 hours yesterday. Of note were an Amazon driver who rang up wanton endangerment in addition to reckless driving, another wanton endangerment (PSA: Don’t do dumb things in your car if there is a cop on foot anywhere close.) and some largely uneventful demolition derby between a girl, her mechanic ex , and her tow truck driver current.

Next week: Justice takes a holiday as all the prosecutors will be at some conference. almost halfway through my stint.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

How long do you have to do it in total?

 

[massraider]

In contrast, my anecdotal experience and secondhand information received suggests that women will just mess with each other for no specific reason or out of boredom.

My experience too, and I never been to a pod

 

[Rustoleum]

How long do you have to do it in total?

We reported the first week of July and I believe we are done after the first week of October. Between the week off next week, and probably getting released early on a day when more than 12 of the 15 of us are available because it will be “my turn”, I probably only have 2-3 more sessions left.

 

[Rustoleum]

Pretty sure a lady bought herself a suspended license, a wanton endangerment charge, and a school bus yesterday. (No injuries and no kids on the bus fortunately).

We were asked to actually reduce charges to the lower court for shoplifting because the bulk of the stuff the Commonwealth attorneys felt they couldn’t prove was stolen in KY and not nearby Ohio and Indiana. Frustrating.

Two more strangulation charges on domestics. One tried the Pornhub defense. Maybe the state forcing ID verification on xxx sites has its benefits after all.

And one we dropped entirely because the stories changed from “he ran over me with his car” to “maybe I was hitting him through the open car door and pulling pieces off his steering wheel (the whole turn signal wand), he tried to get away, and I fell down and he ran over my foot. (No breaks, just a bruise).

This jury duty thing is not inspiring me to dip my divorced toes into the dating pool (or potentially under any tires).

 

[the moops]

. In that timeframe other female inmates may see me and it was pretty common for them to flash me, cat call me, etc.

Oh the horror!!

 

[The Z Machine]

One tried the Pornhub defense.

What's this now?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

One tried the Pornhub defense.

What's this now?

Asking for a friend …

 

[Rustoleum]

One tried the Pornhub defense.

What's this now?

Asking for a friend …

He claimed the fresh red marks around her neck were from the night before and she liked being choked.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

One tried the Pornhub defense.

What's this now?

Asking for a friend …

He claimed the fresh red marks around her neck were from the night before and she liked being choked.

Oh, you mean the Trevor Bauer defense

 

[Zow]

. In that timeframe other female inmates may see me and it was pretty common for them to flash me, cat call me, etc.

Oh the horror!!

I mean, I'm not a piece of meat...

 

[Rustoleum]

Easiest $12 I never made today. There were 13 jurors there today and they put the 5 of us who had only been excused one time so far in an envelope and I was the lucky winner. So my civic duty today lasted about 5 minutes.

Would’ve been a short day anyway, Only about 10 cases on the list.

 

[Rustoleum]

We were done in less than a hour this week. Despite the low volume of cases, there were a couple of things that stood out from what has mostly been 2 months of meth possession cases. Only 3 more sessions to go.


1: Points for honesty, at least, but maybe don’t consent to the vehicle search unless you are REALLY confident in the results. Pretty sure they would have found a way (K9 unit, whatever) to search regardless, but still.

“If I had known that meth was there I would have taken it.”
- actual statement given to the arresting officer

2: Pro Tip: if you walk into Lowes empty handed and then “return” $500 in stuff, the loss prevention people are going to catch on, especially since you provided ID per their return policy.

3.If I had a brother, and that brother used my ID to try to dodge a warrant, I would hope at least we looked something alike…..