Odds and ends from Sunday (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

Who has better receivers SD or NE? Man, for all the talk about how poor Brady's receivers are, I am not sure if they have dropped any passes this postseason. I think the SD receivers lost the game for them. Parker had 3 drops and losing that fumble on the punt was terrible to not fall on it. He also fumbled on a catch earlier but I guess 3 feet down is not enough for a catch these days? Vincent Jackson, knocked down a pass right at his head like he was a defender on 4th down (BTW, they could have used him on the 4th down pick they returned to fumble). Also, how about dragging your feet in the back of the end zone on a great throw by Rivers? That was awful and should have been an easy TD.

Kudos to Gaffney and even Caldwell who really stepped up.

The 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty by Florence seems to be something NE players just don't do.

Do you think Marty might have been questioning his waste of a timeout to review the fumbled int (that should have been knocked down)? I am sure he was when SD inexplicably wasted their 2nd timeout AFTER there was a long pause because of an injured NE player. How can you allow that to happen with 4:30 to go in a close game? You had more than enough time to get your play call in order.

Brady is clearly one of the top 3 QB's in the league and you could make a strong argument he is #1, but he stunk yesterday. Yes, the moron on TV will talk about how great he is with the ball in his hands with the game on the line, but he threw what should have been the game ending pick (most likely) and should have had another one early but the defender dropped it. You get pressure on even the great ones and they can look like "Grossman."

The NE offensive line really protects well.

I was surprised we didn't see more LT2 and even more Turner as it appeared they could control the game running. For all the supposed genius of Cam Cameron, after running LT2 for 6 yards on 1st down, I surely would not throw the ball on 2nd 4. I think SD should have used more running and then play actioned.

To be fair, I thought the reverse to Parker in the first half was a great call by Cameron but Parker slipped up after trying to cut in for some odd reason. Parker was bad yesterday.

NE made some great 3rd down calls on the draws (and the direct snap) with Kevin Faulk. Those are the plays that when they don't work, all the non knowing fans scream about what a stupid call that was.

Bears/Seattle

Grossman played well as the OL really did not give him time. He should have taken better care of the ball, but he played well.

Cedric Benson ran with authority yesterday and showed some catching ability. I think TJ will be a backup like Ladell Betts, meaning he gets 1/3 of the carries next year (if he is there)

Urlacher was VERY poor yesterday. Most of the run by SA were because Urlacher either got blocked, missed a tackle or over ran the play. Briggs played much better than BU yesterday.

I have always like Hasselback, but he just throws some really dumb int's.

I thought Alexander ran well. When he had any room he really looked good.

I think Deion Branch talks as much as Chad Johnson.

Think about this one...which was dumber? The fact that on 4th down from the Chicago 45 yard line and time running down on regulation Mike Holmgren did not call his final timeout in order to give his team a hail mary opportunity on the last play of the half OR Lovie Smith and the Bears CALLING the timeout in order to give Seattle a chance? WTF? Do these guys no what they are doing? And please don't for a second give me the BS that what are the odds; I know for sure the odds are zero if you let the clock run out.

Needless to say but great kick on grass in Chicago by Gould.

This was a great game with key stops at key times. Very exciting and frustrating.

Let me here some of your thoughts or respond to mine?

 

[Godsbrother]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Think about this one...which was dumber? The fact that on 4th down from the Chicago 45 yard line and time running down on regulation Mike Holmgren did not call his final timeout in order to give his team a hail mary opportunity on the last play of the half OR Lovie Smith and the Bears CALLING the timeout in order to give Seattle a chance? WTF? Do these guys no what they are doing? And please don't for a second give me the BS that what are the odds; I know for sure the odds are zero if you let the clock run out.

That was stupid on both sides. Chicago should have called a timeout soon enough to give Hester a shot at a return. Or, Seattle should have taken a timeout with 2-4 seconds to go to take a shot at the endzone.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.Parker has the best hands on the team, not sure what his problem was yesterday, usually he has hands of glue, which turned to stone.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.

Sounds like some brilliant coaching.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.

Sounds like some brilliant coaching.

Vjax is going to be a beast, he's just very raw and inexperienced

 

[TD Ryan]

I hate the whole "What is a Catch"...

here's some I remember from SD/NE yesterday:

Parker's "non-catch" for a 1st down (as he went out of bounds"

- I know according to the rule that the refs made the right call... but the rule is stupid. Parker did juggle the ball a tiny bit, but to me, a "catch" is stopping the ball from hitting the ground and Parker did that.

Gate's overturned catch/fumble

- if that play happened IN the endzone instead of on the 2 yard line, would it have been a "catch"? Again, by the rule, I believe that the refs made the right call as Gates didn't make the infamous "football move", but he caught the ball and both feet landed on the ground.

I guess I just with they'd simplify the rule. IMO, they've made the concept of a "Catch" overly complicated.

 

[TD Ryan]

Vjax is going to be a beast, he's just very raw and inexperienced

agreed.polish him up a bit and he's got the tools.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.

Sounds like some brilliant coaching.

Vjax is going to be a beast, he's just very raw and inexperienced

I agree totally. I've been saying that since I saw him at the combine. However, the playoffs is not the time, nor place for grooming your youngsters. Get the guy on the field who has more catches that the rest of the team, combined. (Probably)

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Gate's overturned catch/fumble- if that play happened IN the endzone instead of on the 2 yard line, would it have been a "catch"?

By rule, no, it shouldn't be.However, I agree. That is one of the dumbest rules in the NFL, especially when it happens in the end zone.It astonishes me as to how many stupid rules could be tweaked to really help the game.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Think about this one...which was dumber? The fact that on 4th down from the Chicago 45 yard line and time running down on regulation Mike Holmgren did not call his final timeout in order to give his team a hail mary opportunity on the last play of the half OR Lovie Smith and the Bears CALLING the timeout in order to give Seattle a chance? WTF? Do these guys no what they are doing? And please don't for a second give me the BS that what are the odds; I know for sure the odds are zero if you let the clock run out.

That was stupid on both sides. Chicago should have called a timeout soon enough to give Hester a shot at a return. Or, Seattle should have taken a timeout with 2-4 seconds to go to take a shot at the endzone.

Just a note, if I am Chicago I would call a timeout with 22 seconds left because you want to try and give Hester a shot or you can try and block the FG. This also would be smart because it would keep Seattle from doing what I thought they should have done in calling a timeout with 1 second left to try a hail mary. But calling a timeout with 2 seconds left is just as stupid as Seattle not calling the timeout themselves.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.Parker has the best hands on the team, not sure what his problem was yesterday, usually he has hands of glue, which turned to stone.

Maybe he really was nervous? The punt is what really was lame, he fumbles the punt, and the instead of falling on it he tries to pick it up only to be hit again. Man, you mess up, just fall on it and get another play.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.

Sounds like some brilliant coaching.

Vjax is going to be a beast, he's just very raw and inexperienced

I agree totally. I've been saying that since I saw him at the combine. However, the playoffs is not the time, nor place for grooming your youngsters. Get the guy on the field who has more catches that the rest of the team, combined. (Probably)

this wasnt a playoff only decision, he's been starting for quite awhile now.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.

Sounds like some brilliant coaching.

Vjax is going to be a beast, he's just very raw and inexperienced

You may be correct as he has great size speed combo. But, his hands need to improve and he was like a college player not dragging his feet on a GREAT pass by Rivers in the back of the end zone. That is something he should have been able to dn a side note there is a thing of beauty about getting both feet in bounds and I don't know why college doesn't have the same rule?

 

[Black Box]

I haven't seen many SD games this year, but do they typically commit "stupid" penalties? The head-butt incident to give NE a 1st down comes to mind... talk about keeping the other team in the game.

 

[H.K.]

You get pressure on even the great ones and they can look like "Grossman."

The NE offensive line really protects well.[/quote]

These were back-to-back sentences.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Agree about SD receivers, especially Parker. He absolutely killed his team yesterday.

No doubt. I don't know how many times I called for Rivers to try passing to McCardell. What was his deal? He was invisible. God forbid you try using vets in the playoffs.

Vincent Jackson has replaced McCardell in the starting lineup.

Sounds like some brilliant coaching.

Vjax is going to be a beast, he's just very raw and inexperienced

You may be correct as he has great size speed combo. But, his hands need to improve and he was like a college player not dragging his feet on a GREAT pass by Rivers in the back of the end zone. That is something he should have been able to dn a side note there is a thing of beauty about getting both feet in bounds and I don't know why college doesn't have the same rule?

not only that but he didn't know where to lineup during the hurry up two mintue drill at the end of the game and cost his team 20 seconds.

 

[Liquid Tension]

You get pressure on even the great ones and they can look like "Grossman."

The NE offensive line really protects well.[/quote]

These were back-to-back sentences.

When you blitz 5 and 6 guys 75% of the time even the greatest OL in history will allow some pressure. It was pretty clear that the NE OL did a fantastic job in protection but the few times they didn't Brady was awful. There was only one time where Brady stood in there and made a throw under heavy pressure and that was a nice 15 yard out to Gaffney; that was an excellent throw.

HK, wouldn't you agree that the NE line gave excellent protection yesterday?

 

[parasaurolophus]

One of my observations is that NFL coaching appears to be at an all time low. There are some young upstart guys who look promising, but man there are some old, bad coaches right now.

Holmgren- Painfully obvious this guy is no longer an offensive mind. Three things I noticed. #1. Running up the gut and running shorter routes to the outside was working great against the bears. Holmgren just kept having to try to get away from that. #2. They had three chances to win the game at the end of the game and couldnt even get into FG range. #3. The announcers actually praised holmgren for running out of the split back set on a play where it was a horrible play call. THREE bears actually missed stopping Alexander. Just seemed funny to me how announcers get so blinded by past performance and didnt focus on what an amazing run it was by Alexander.

Reid-There are several threads on here already discussing his shortcomings

Marty- Stupid penalty, muffed punt, not shoving LT down their throats. He didnt commit the penalty, but his player lacked the discipline to not get the penalty. And I noticed after that his player was still in the game after he committed the penalty. If a player commits a penalty like that, I dont care who he is, I would take him out immedately and I wouldnt put him back in. That message needs to be sent in week 1-17 so it doesnt happen in week 19. The muffed punt wasnt the worst part, it was not covering it up after it happened. That play was just ammo for conspiracy theorists. I think these plays come down to coaching. And that challenge??

Parcells- Why did he not try to take advantage of the Temp agency secondary of seattle? Was that too easy?

Coughlin- Eli is regressing. The team openly questions him without any fear. How can you bring back a coach who is criticized in the media at least once by every major weapon on the team, except for the one he threw under the bus?

Running out of time here at work... but Gibbs, Dungy, and Shanny all have made some pretty poor moves/decisions this year too.

Edited to add i forgot about the worst challenge in the history of Instant replay.

 

[H.K.]

When you blitz 5 and 6 guys 75% of the time even the greatest OL in history will allow some pressure. It was pretty clear that the NE OL did a fantastic job in protection but the few times they didn't Brady was awful. There was only one time where Brady stood in there and made a throw under heavy pressure and that was a nice 15 yard out to Gaffney; that was an excellent throw.HK, wouldn't you agree that the NE line gave excellent protection yesterday?

They gave up two sacks on 51 pass attempts against Merrimen and company, that is not bad. The SD defense is defintely strong. However, Brady deserves credit. He played well when it mattered most. His movement out of the pocket to hit Caldwell for the TD should not be over looked. Your statements were contradictory though, you can't say a line protected well and but the QB played under immense pressure at the same time. Also, choosing to blitz leaves fewer people in coverage, too. Thus leaving the secondary in a vulnerable position, so its a two edged sword when evaluating the secondary in this scenario. Pressure on the QB can help make a secondary look better, too, because the QB will be forced to make throws that are poor. Great game, SD should be a force in the next few years. My overwhelming thought was that Troy Brown has made some amazing plays for the Patriots over the years. That guy comes up big in so many ways, what a big attribute he has been for Patriots during their amazing post season string.

 

[Serenity Now]

The 'what is a catch' 'what is a fumble' issue probably deserves a thread of its own. It's absolutely changing the game...often for the worse.

 

[parasaurolophus]

When you blitz 5 and 6 guys 75% of the time even the greatest OL in history will allow some pressure. It was pretty clear that the NE OL did a fantastic job in protection but the few times they didn't Brady was awful. There was only one time where Brady stood in there and made a throw under heavy pressure and that was a nice 15 yard out to Gaffney; that was an excellent throw.HK, wouldn't you agree that the NE line gave excellent protection yesterday?

They gave up two sacks on 51 pass attempts against Merrimen and company, that is not bad. The SD defense is defintely strong. However, Brady deserves credit. He played well when it mattered most. His movement out of the pocket to hit Caldwell for the TD should not be over looked. Your statements were contradictory though, you can't say a line protected well and but the QB played under immense pressure at the same time. Also, choosing to blitz leaves fewer people in coverage, too. Thus leaving the secondary in a vulnerable position, so its a two edged sword when evaluating the secondary in this scenario. Pressure on the QB can help make a secondary look better, too, because the QB will be forced to make throws that are poor. Great game, SD should be a force in the next few years. My overwhelming thought was that Troy Brown has made some amazing plays for the Patriots over the years. That guy comes up big in so many ways, what a big attribute he has been for Patriots during their amazing post season string.

"pressure" does not imply that a QB was running for his life all day. This is a silly argument to pick. If SD got pressure on Brady three times and he threw 3 picks and was not pressured the rest of the game. That would be one heck of a performance from an Oline. If he throws three picks on those three occasions, it is the QBs fault, not the Oline's. Throwing three picks in a game, makes you look like Grossman. In fact Grossman and Brady looked pretty damn similar this weekend.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Gate's overturned catch/fumble- if that play happened IN the endzone instead of on the 2 yard line, would it have been a "catch"?

By rule, no, it shouldn't be.However, I agree. That is one of the dumbest rules in the NFL, especially when it happens in the end zone.It astonishes me as to how many stupid rules could be tweaked to really help the game.

My main issue on the rules are that they are making it too much interpretation now. The beauty part of two feet in is you can see if the player has two feet in. The catch used to be if you get two feet down it is a catch, now you have to make a football related move? What is that? Isn't everything they do a football related move? I guess if a guy catches a ball gets two feet down and then breaks out his needle and thread that would be incomplete?Seriously, why allow the all the subjectivity into the equation. Does anyone really feel like they know what a real catch is anymore? I mean I have 5 TV's in one room and we watch all the games and I am less confident in my knowledge of the rules than when I was in college (a long time ago)I am hijacking my own thread, but the stupidest rule to me is that coaches can't use their own challenge in the last 2 minutes? What idiot thought of that rule? If they have one left what reason could be given that they can't use it?

 

[H.K.]

"pressure" does not imply that a QB was running for his life all day. This is a silly argument to pick. If SD got pressure on Brady three times and he threw 3 picks and was not pressured the rest of the game. That would be one heck of a performance from an Oline.

If he throws three picks on those three occasions, it is the QBs fault, not the Oline's. Throwing three picks in a game, makes you look like Grossman. In fact Grossman and Brady looked pretty damn similar this weekend.

Well, they both won.Grossman had the advantage of getting 120 yards and two TD's on the ground...not to mention Seattle's defense is not as good as San Diego's.

FWIW, I agree with NFL.com's assessments in their headlines:

Brady leads Pats' rally, knocks out Bolts

NFL.com wire reports

SAN DIEGO (Jan. 14, 2007) -- Tom Brady, as cool as ever, delivered every time the San Diego Chargers gave him another chance.

Gould's OT heroics lifts Chicago past Seattle

NFL.com wire reports

CHICAGO (Jan. 14, 2007) -- Robbie Gould won it after Rex Grossman didn't lose it and the Chicago Bears are back in the NFC Championship Game for the first time in 18 years.

 

[Liquid Tension]

When you blitz 5 and 6 guys 75% of the time even the greatest OL in history will allow some pressure. It was pretty clear that the NE OL did a fantastic job in protection but the few times they didn't Brady was awful. There was only one time where Brady stood in there and made a throw under heavy pressure and that was a nice 15 yard out to Gaffney; that was an excellent throw.HK, wouldn't you agree that the NE line gave excellent protection yesterday?

They gave up two sacks on 51 pass attempts against Merrimen and company, that is not bad. The SD defense is defintely strong. However, Brady deserves credit. He played well when it mattered most. His movement out of the pocket to hit Caldwell for the TD should not be over looked. Your statements were contradictory though, you can't say a line protected well and but the QB played under immense pressure at the same time. Also, choosing to blitz leaves fewer people in coverage, too. Thus leaving the secondary in a vulnerable position, so its a two edged sword when evaluating the secondary in this scenario. Pressure on the QB can help make a secondary look better, too, because the QB will be forced to make throws that are poor. Great game, SD should be a force in the next few years. My overwhelming thought was that Troy Brown has made some amazing plays for the Patriots over the years. That guy comes up big in so many ways, what a big attribute he has been for Patriots during their amazing post season string.

1) Brady actually moved into the rush on the TD to Caldwell. watch the play again, he broke down early on that play. Not saying it wasn't a good throw or anything but your comment was incorrect as I watched the play 6 times to see the push off from Caldwell.2) You wonder why people have been up in arms with your style of "debate"...When did I say Brady played under "Immense pressure" HK, you are making stuff up again. I said, "when you get pressure on even the great ones they can look like Grossman" My reasoning for saying Brady was awful was that he didn't get pressure too many times, but when he did get pressure he threw the ball terrible.3) BTW, sacking 2 times may or may not be a good indication of pressure as good QB's will sacrifice their QB rating to throw a ball away rather than take a sack. In this case, I think the NE line did an excellent job pass protecting.4) Troy Brown is a poster child for NE heads up play.5) I am never sure whether to blame a coach when his players do dumb things in the heat of battle or the players themselves (as well as players ion the field), but it appears that NE will get rid of those types of players they feel could pull a "Florence" or like in the Giant game, retaliate like Cofield did.

 

[Liquid Tension]

"pressure" does not imply that a QB was running for his life all day. This is a silly argument to pick. If SD got pressure on Brady three times and he threw 3 picks and was not pressured the rest of the game. That would be one heck of a performance from an Oline.

If he throws three picks on those three occasions, it is the QBs fault, not the Oline's. Throwing three picks in a game, makes you look like Grossman. In fact Grossman and Brady looked pretty damn similar this weekend.

Well, they both won.Grossman had the advantage of getting 120 yards and two TD's on the ground...not to mention Seattle's defense is not as good as San Diego's.

FWIW, I agree with NFL.com's assessments in their headlines:

Brady leads Pats' rally, knocks out Bolts

NFL.com wire reports

SAN DIEGO (Jan. 14, 2007) -- Tom Brady, as cool as ever, delivered every time the San Diego Chargers gave him another chance.

Gould's OT heroics lifts Chicago past Seattle

NFL.com wire reports

CHICAGO (Jan. 14, 2007) -- Robbie Gould won it after Rex Grossman didn't lose it and the Chicago Bears are back in the NFC Championship Game for the first time in 18 years.

This is exactly what I would expect every LAME person who doesn't no squat to say. Ok that was harsh but for a reason. I would expect guys like Sean Salsbury to say the same thing. It is what people want to hear. Brady did it again blah blah blah. Didn't Brady have his chance when he threw the pick that should have ended the game most likely? It doesn't tell a story as well to say Brady who put his team in a hole with poor play could have ended his teams season with a brutal pick but got a huge break when Troy Brown stripped the ball free for NE to keep their hopes alive....In other words, if this were Grossman, it would be how the team bailed out Grossman. because it is Brady, the headline says he delivered EVERY time... Please, this is the Shark Tank, let's not be like the guppies who soak up the nonsense.

 

[H.K.]

This is exactly what I would expect every LAME person who doesn't no squat to say. Ok that was harsh but for a reason. I would expect guys like Sean Salsbury to say the same thing. It is what people want to hear. Brady did it again blah blah blah. Didn't Brady have his chance when he threw the pick that should have ended the game most likely? It doesn't tell a story as well to say Brady who put his team in a hole with poor play could have ended his teams season with a brutal pick but got a huge break when Troy Brown stripped the ball free for NE to keep their hopes alive....In other words, if this were Grossman, it would be how the team bailed out Grossman. because it is Brady, the headline says he delivered EVERY time... Please, this is the Shark Tank, let's not be like the guppies who soak up the nonsense.

Brady made a mistake. Several in fact. But his team put him in a position to win and he got it done. Do you disagree with that?BTW - Troy Brown is the guy I think who should be getting the credit. His play really changed the game. He had amazing presence of mind to strip the ball.

 

[Liquid Tension]

This is exactly what I would expect every LAME person who doesn't no squat to say. Ok that was harsh but for a reason. I would expect guys like Sean Salsbury to say the same thing. It is what people want to hear. Brady did it again blah blah blah. Didn't Brady have his chance when he threw the pick that should have ended the game most likely? It doesn't tell a story as well to say Brady who put his team in a hole with poor play could have ended his teams season with a brutal pick but got a huge break when Troy Brown stripped the ball free for NE to keep their hopes alive....In other words, if this were Grossman, it would be how the team bailed out Grossman. because it is Brady, the headline says he delivered EVERY time... Please, this is the Shark Tank, let's not be like the guppies who soak up the nonsense.

Brady made a mistake. Several in fact. But his team put him in a position to win and he got it done. Do you disagree with that?BTW - Troy Brown is the guy I think who should be getting the credit. His play really changed the game. He had amazing presence of mind to strip the ball.

No, I don't disagree with that. Although I will say that his team put him in position earlier in the drive as well and he didn't get it done. I also think he played very poorly for the entire game and that is up from awful because I give some credit to the half time drive (Kevin Faulk did a good job) and the GW drive.