*** OFFICIAL *** 13/14 Off-Season Dynasty Trade Thread (3 Viewers)

[ShaHBucks]

From what I've seen, Michael's ADP is pretty much on par with his consensus ranking. Not really sure what your point is here. My initial point was that I like him more than Forte and that I don't see consensus rankings as a compelling reason to change my mind.

It is common sense to wait as long as possible to draft a player you're targeting. If I value him as a 3rd rounder and everyone else values him as a 6th rounder, that doesn't mean I'm going to take him exactly where I have him valued. Likewise, if you're trading Forte for Michael then you should look to get some extra value added in even if you actually like Michael more because that's what the market price dictates. The deal I was initially responding to was basically Michael + 1.01 for Forte + 1.04. I like Michael > Forte and that side is also getting a 1.04 -> 1.01 upgrade to compensate for the lower market value. In my opinion that's enough of a bump to make this a pretty proftable exchange, even if it represents "paying over the odds" based on where these players are supposed to be valued.

Where do you have Michael ranked? 1.01? I'm kidding, but serious question.

 

[cdubz]

I agree with this. Though I also understand the wisdom of the crowds angle, i.e. just because you have different valuation than market doesn't make it right. Effectively, the market might not be efficient, but good luck exploiting it consistently. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, and it is a difficult trade-off to navigate.

If you don't believe that you can exploit the market consistently, why are you playing this game? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but to me that's like admitting that you have no edge. I would never sit down at a poker table if I didn't think I had an edge or I didn't think it was possible for me to eventually gain one with experience and learning. Likewise, I wouldn't play FF if I didn't believe that it was possible to gain an edge over the average owner.

In FF, 3-4 good calls can make the difference between having an average roster and a great roster. That is kind of emblematic of the strategy I've been shifting towards over the last year or two. If I can basically operate at an average level with most of my roster moves and then occasionally find specific instances where I can get a player for well below what he's truly worth or sell a player for far above what he's really worth, that should be enough to elevate my team into the playoff picture.

So it's not necessarily about knowing the true value of every single player far better than the wisdom of the crowd, but more about identifying a small handful of spots where the crowd gets it very wrong. So basically playing an ABC style and then finding that small handful of high-certainty spots where you're convinced that you can make a move for high EV. I think that's an achievable goal.

As far as the wisdom of the crowd goes, I think the crowd is far better at assessing certain types of players than others. I think there's relatively little ambiguity with players like Graham, Dez, and McCoy who are established commodities in their prime. Any significant deviations in their valuation among owners are probably just a result of failures to understand scoring systems and relative value. However, many players are a lot more ambiguous. Is Bryce Brown a future NFL starter or just a career backup? Is Tyler Eifert a future top 5 TE or just another serviceable mediocrity? Will Paul Richardson be a 1000+ yard receiver in the NFL? Is Trent Richardson a permanent bust or will he bounce back and have a good career?

I don't think the consensus is well-equipped to handle ambiguity for the reasons I mentioned previously. It treats players as a compromise between their potential career outcomes when in reality most players will break more sharply in one direction or the other. So I think if there's a big edge to be gained in FF, much of it lies in answering questions of this variety rather than drafting robotically off the same cheatsheets as everyone else. You don't need to be Miss Cleo with every single player out there, but if you can get even 2-3 of these questions right in a big way per season and then just have average team management in every other respect then you will actually stack up a pretty big advantage over time. Consensus rankings aren't going to serve that end because by definition all they tell is what everyone thinks, not whether or not that thinking might be off-target in specific cases.

Well, I didn't think you were trying to be a jerk until you stated you weren't.

Trying to have an edge and having an edge are two different things. If we state things as absolutes, then I think they should apply universally.

I agree with most everything you are laying out here.

If my valuation on a player is higher than average, then most likely they are going to end up on my team as fantasy football is largely a relative game. I think the wisdom of crowds angle comes into play more on the absolute level, if no one else (or very few) are seeing what you are seeing in terms of an absolute ranking then that might make me second guess my initial assesment (effectively recognizing winner's curse effect).

As you mention, deviating from consensus rankings is a necessary condition for turning in better than average results; but it is not a sufficient condition. In the Michael example, you are going out of your way to obtain him (and I have him in 1 of my 2 leagues). But just because you are confident in your assessment, doesn't mean you will ultimately be right. In the longer-run, I understand that small advantages add up for relatively better owners. But not everyone is above average, in fact 50% of owners are going to be below median in their talent evals.

 

[EBF]

From what I've seen, Michael's ADP is pretty much on par with his consensus ranking. Not really sure what your point is here. My initial point was that I like him more than Forte and that I don't see consensus rankings as a compelling reason to change my mind.

It is common sense to wait as long as possible to draft a player you're targeting. If I value him as a 3rd rounder and everyone else values him as a 6th rounder, that doesn't mean I'm going to take him exactly where I have him valued. Likewise, if you're trading Forte for Michael then you should look to get some extra value added in even if you actually like Michael more because that's what the market price dictates. The deal I was initially responding to was basically Michael + 1.01 for Forte + 1.04. I like Michael > Forte and that side is also getting a 1.04 -> 1.01 upgrade to compensate for the lower market value. In my opinion that's enough of a bump to make this a pretty proftable exchange, even if it represents "paying over the odds" based on where these players are supposed to be valued.

Where do you have Michael ranked? 1.01? I'm kidding, but serious question.

I don't usually go through the trouble of ranking players unless I'm specifically planning on publishing a list. The way I draft is by looking at ADP and then picking out who I like based on where they're expected to go. Usually 2-3 names per round and if I really like the player I might plan on taking him a round or maybe even two above where he's expected to come off the board. I'm actually preparing for a draft right now and I only have 28 names on my sheet to cover ten rounds. If I don't have a strong positive feeling about a player, I generally won't bother with him. So it's hard for me to say exactly where I rank somebody unless I've just recently put together some rankings, which I haven't lately.

All I can say is I like him more than most and would be a buyer at his ADP. I took a quick glance at the DLF RB rankings and I would probably prefer him to 12-15 of the backs listed ahead of him. So he's probably right around 8-10 for me. Doesn't really matter because you don't need to pay that for him.

 

[ghostguy123]

One issue with ADP is.........who are the people that are drafting? Where are THEY getting their ADPs from prior to these drafts..........Also WHEN are these ADPs from, since they change all the time.

That's why startup drafts are so fun to do. You just never know where anyone is going to go for one isolated draft.

I think the value of a player (for your specific league) is much more clear after the draft. Put a player on the block and check your feedback. If you are in an active league, you will figure out how the league values that player real fast.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Apropos of nothing, since this is the trade thread and all...

I just realized today that in my oldest league with 30-man rosters, I currently only own 2 players who were drafted by me either in the startup (Roethlisberger back in 2007) or as rookies (JStew in 2008). I just traded away the third and the fourth such guys (Randall Cobb and Le'Veon Bell). The other 28 players currently on my roster either came via waivers or trades.

Anyone else have similar extreme cases? Typically, what percentage of your team is made up of guys you drafted vs. guys you traded for?

 

[ghostguy123]

Apropos of nothing, since this is the trade thread and all...

I just realized today that in my oldest league with 30-man rosters, I currently only own 2 players who were drafted by me either in the startup (Roethlisberger back in 2007) or as rookies (JStew in 2008). I just traded away the third and the fourth such guys (Randall Cobb and Le'Veon Bell). The other 28 players currently on my roster either came via waivers or trades.

Anyone else have similar extreme cases? Typically, what percentage of your team is made up of guys you drafted vs. guys you traded for?

Ha. Almost all my teams that are 2 or more years old have pretty much nobody that I originally drafted.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Apropos of nothing, since this is the trade thread and all...

I just realized today that in my oldest league with 30-man rosters, I currently only own 2 players who were drafted by me either in the startup (Roethlisberger back in 2007) or as rookies (JStew in 2008). I just traded away the third and the fourth such guys (Randall Cobb and Le'Veon Bell). The other 28 players currently on my roster either came via waivers or trades.

Anyone else have similar extreme cases? Typically, what percentage of your team is made up of guys you drafted vs. guys you traded for?

My oldest dynasty is 4 years old (with this year's rookie draft not yet held). Ten team PPR with non-standard scoring (completion percentage, return yards, etc.), 26 roster slots, starting QQRRWWTTFFF.

These are the guys that I've drafted in the startup or rookie drafts that are still rostered:

QB (3): Brees, Romo

RB (7): L. Miller, Michael, B. Brown

WR (11): Ant. Brown, Cobb, Gordon, Patterson, K. Wright, Hunter

TE (5): L. Green, Fleener

So exactly 50% retained. Biggest turnover by far at RB, with TE next. The parentheses behind the position indicate how many of that position I currently have rostered.

 

[jeaton6]

Startup draft. Team A had originally drafted Gordon at 5.9 (latest I've seen in a startup this year by far) 2 days after the Gordon news broke. Team B drafted Davinte Adams at 7.4.

Team A gave up: Josh Gordon, 2015 4th

Team B have up: Davante Adans, 2015 3rd

Absolute steal for Gordon at that price

 

[tdmills]

I agree with this. Though I also understand the wisdom of the crowds angle, i.e. just because you have different valuation than market doesn't make it right. Effectively, the market might not be efficient, but good luck exploiting it consistently. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, and it is a difficult trade-off to navigate.

If you don't believe that you can exploit the market consistently, why are you playing this game? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but to me that's like admitting that you have no edge. I would never sit down at a poker table if I didn't think I had an edge or I didn't think it was possible for me to eventually gain one with experience and learning. Likewise, I wouldn't play FF if I didn't believe that it was possible to gain an edge over the average owner.

In FF, 3-4 good calls can make the difference between having an average roster and a great roster. That is kind of emblematic of the strategy I've been shifting towards over the last year or two. If I can basically operate at an average level with most of my roster moves and then occasionally find specific instances where I can get a player for well below what he's truly worth or sell a player for far above what he's really worth, that should be enough to elevate my team into the playoff picture.

So it's not necessarily about knowing the true value of every single player far better than the wisdom of the crowd, but more about identifying a small handful of spots where the crowd gets it very wrong. So basically playing an ABC style and then finding that small handful of high-certainty spots where you're convinced that you can make a move for high EV. I think that's an achievable goal.

As far as the wisdom of the crowd goes, I think the crowd is far better at assessing certain types of players than others. I think there's relatively little ambiguity with players like Graham, Dez, and McCoy who are established commodities in their prime. Any significant deviations in their valuation among owners are probably just a result of failures to understand scoring systems and relative value. However, many players are a lot more ambiguous. Is Bryce Brown a future NFL starter or just a career backup? Is Tyler Eifert a future top 5 TE or just another serviceable mediocrity? Will Paul Richardson be a 1000+ yard receiver in the NFL? Is Trent Richardson a permanent bust or will he bounce back and have a good career?

I don't think the consensus is well-equipped to handle ambiguity for the reasons I mentioned previously. It treats players as a compromise between their potential career outcomes when in reality most players will break more sharply in one direction or the other. So I think if there's a big edge to be gained in FF, much of it lies in answering questions of this variety rather than drafting robotically off the same cheatsheets as everyone else. You don't need to be Miss Cleo with every single player out there, but if you can get even 2-3 of these questions right in a big way per season and then just have average team management in every other respect then you will actually stack up a pretty big advantage over time. Consensus rankings aren't going to serve that end because by definition all they tell is what everyone thinks, not whether or not that thinking might be off-target in specific cases.

Well, I didn't think you were trying to be a jerk until you stated you weren't.

Trying to have an edge and having an edge are two different things. If we state things as absolutes, then I think they should apply universally.

I agree with most everything you are laying out here.

If my valuation on a player is higher than average, then most likely they are going to end up on my team as fantasy football is largely a relative game. I think the wisdom of crowds angle comes into play more on the absolute level, if no one else (or very few) are seeing what you are seeing in terms of an absolute ranking then that might make me second guess my initial assesment (effectively recognizing winner's curse effect).

As you mention, deviating from consensus rankings is a necessary condition for turning in better than average results; but it is not a sufficient condition. In the Michael example, you are going out of your way to obtain him (and I have him in 1 of my 2 leagues). But just because you are confident in your assessment, doesn't mean you will ultimately be right. In the longer-run, I understand that small advantages add up for relatively better owners. But not everyone is above average, in fact 50% of owners are going to be below median in their talent evals.

Bingo. EBF thinks that when he sits down at a poker table(FF league), he's the smartest/best player at the table and that actually could be a disadvantage to being overconfident. He could make unnecessary risks that he thinks he could get away with.

In our league, he dealt future 1st, future devy, Gresham for Michael. Which turned into future 1st(Benjamin), future devy(Treadwell), Gresham for Michael. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I still think it was an overpay.

 

[CBower4545]

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

 

[maf005]

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

This seems very fair assuming A is a contender and B is in rebuild mode

 

[MattFancy]

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

Guessing Team A is probably a contender. If that's the case, I think Gore is worth it.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

PPR IDP

1.01 (Watkins) for T.Richardson, C.Michael.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

PPR IDP

1.01 (Watkins) for T.Richardson, C.Michael.

Oh dear.

 

[Soulfly3]

PPR IDP

1.01 (Watkins) for T.Richardson, C.Michael.

I just.... I just dont understand some of these leagues.

 

[menobrown]

PPR IDP

1.01 (Watkins) for T.Richardson, C.Michael.

I just.... I just dont understand some of these leagues.

Seems fair to me but I'd rather have the Trich/Michaels side.

 

[menobrown]

Apropos of nothing, since this is the trade thread and all...

I just realized today that in my oldest league with 30-man rosters, I currently only own 2 players who were drafted by me either in the startup (Roethlisberger back in 2007) or as rookies (JStew in 2008). I just traded away the third and the fourth such guys (Randall Cobb and Le'Veon Bell). The other 28 players currently on my roster either came via waivers or trades.

Anyone else have similar extreme cases? Typically, what percentage of your team is made up of guys you drafted vs. guys you traded for?

This is a great topic I'd have liked to see get it's very own thread.

My oldest league is only from 2010 and it's FFPC so 20 roster size in-season and 14 position players off-season for those who still might now now. My last two remaining players are Crabtree(late second round pick) and Reggie Bush(6th round pick). So 1/7th of my position players and that number will got to 1/9th when the season starts.

Another think I'm curious about is to see who many players, or percentage of players on a team were acquired via free agency and rookie draft. It can get confusing trying to figure out FA pickups and draft picks that got bundled together in trades.

 

[EBF]

HyperActive 1 drafted all the way back in 2006. I still have Santonio Holmes left over from the startup draft. I think he's the last dinosaur on my roster. I traded away Aaron Rodgers, Reggie Bush, and Larry Fitzgerald within the past year or so.

 

[humpback]

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

This seems very fair assuming A is a contender and B is in rebuild mode

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

Guessing Team A is probably a contender. If that's the case, I think Gore is worth it.

Am I reading these two incorrectly?

 

[maf005]

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

This seems very fair assuming A is a contender and B is in rebuild mode

non-ppr

Team A gave Frank Gore

Team B gave 3.2

Guessing Team A is probably a contender. If that's the case, I think Gore is worth it.

Am I reading these two incorrectly?

Yea lol I misspoke

 

[ghostguy123]

Gore.

I will take one year of a decent chance to score some points over a guy who never scores a point for me. Gotta figure he can get better than pick 26.

 

[maf005]

Dynasty start 1qb

Find x:

Matthew Stafford

for

Peyton Manning and 2015 x round pick (borderline playoff team)

 

[cstu]

Dynasty start 1qb

Find x:

Matthew Stafford

for

Peyton Manning and 2015 x round pick (borderline playoff team)

If x > 1 then .

 

[Dez]

12 team PPR

Gave: Richardson, M. Lee, and E. Sanders

Got: Shady McCoy

Took a hit with my WR depth but needed the RB upgrade badly.

A year ago I still take McCoy

A year ago Trent was a universal top 5 dynasty pick and #1 overall ranked player by some and McCoy was coming off a concussion season and being drafted at the end of round 1 in most dynasty startups not to mention M. Lee was expected to the be the #1 overall rookie pick at this time last year.

 

[Nucker101]

Dynasty start 1qb

Find x:

Matthew Stafford

for

Peyton Manning and 2015 x round pick (borderline playoff team)

If x > 1 then .

Solve for X.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

12 team PPR

Gave: Richardson, M. Lee, and E. Sanders

Got: Shady McCoy

Took a hit with my WR depth but needed the RB upgrade badly.

A year ago I still take McCoy

A year ago Trent was a universal top 5 dynasty pick and #1 overall ranked player by some and McCoy was coming off a concussion season and being drafted at the end of round 1 in most dynasty startups not to mention M. Lee was expected to the be the #1 overall rookie pick at this time last year.

 

[EBF]

This one generated some buzz in one of my leagues. I wasn't involved.

14 team start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 FLEX. .75/1/1.25 PPR for RB/WR/TE.

Team A gave:

RB LeSean McCoy

Team B gave:

WR Michael Floyd

2015 1st round dev pick

2015 2nd round rookie pick (x3)

The guy getting Floyd is working on a little bit of a rebuilding project, having already traded most of his "win now" guys in favor of youth and picks.

 

[DexterDew]

on the face of it, it seems pretty light for McCoy... but his new owner now has a WR core of Garcon, Wallace, Boldin and Wayne. In a start 3 and can flex a 4th, that group could be rough (obviously other trades will happen)

 

[tdmills]

on the face of it, it seems pretty light for McCoy... but his new owner now has a WR core of Garcon, Wallace, Boldin and Wayne. In a start 3 and can flex a 4th, that group could be rough (obviously other trades will happen)

He's not flexing a 4th, he will start 3 rbs: shady, bell, lacy. Outside of byes/injuries

 

[Concept Coop]

This one generated some buzz in one of my leagues. I wasn't involved.

14 team start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 FLEX. .75/1/1.25 PPR for RB/WR/TE.

Team A gave:

RB LeSean McCoy

Team B gave:

WR Michael Floyd

2015 1st round dev pick

2015 2nd round rookie pick (x3)

The guy getting Floyd is working on a little bit of a rebuilding project, having already traded most of his "win now" guys in favor of youth and picks.

Way too cheap for McCoy, IMO--less than half of his actual value.

 

[Concept Coop]

on the face of it, it seems pretty light for McCoy... but his new owner now has a WR core of Garcon, Wallace, Boldin and Wayne. In a start 3 and can flex a 4th, that group could be rough (obviously other trades will happen)

He won't miss borderline WR2 numbers, having just added McCoy.

 

[ghostguy123]

12 team PPR

Gave: Richardson, M. Lee, and E. Sanders

Got: Shady McCoy

Took a hit with my WR depth but needed the RB upgrade badly.

A year ago I still take McCoy

A year ago Trent was a universal top 5 dynasty pick and #1 overall ranked player by some and McCoy was coming off a concussion season and being drafted at the end of round 1 in most dynasty startups not to mention M. Lee was expected to the be the #1 overall rookie pick at this time last year.

I said who I would take, not who YOU would take.

 

[ghostguy123]

This one generated some buzz in one of my leagues. I wasn't involved.

14 team start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 FLEX. .75/1/1.25 PPR for RB/WR/TE.

Team A gave:

RB LeSean McCoy

Team B gave:

WR Michael Floyd

2015 1st round dev pick

2015 2nd round rookie pick (x3)

The guy getting Floyd is working on a little bit of a rebuilding project, having already traded most of his "win now" guys in favor of youth and picks.

not good.

Can definitely and easily do better with minimal effort

 

[ghostguy123]

on the face of it, it seems pretty light for McCoy... but his new owner now has a WR core of Garcon, Wallace, Boldin and Wayne. In a start 3 and can flex a 4th, that group could be rough (obviously other trades will happen)

That doesnt mean he should go out and make horrid deals.

 

[renesauz]

This one generated some buzz in one of my leagues. I wasn't involved.

14 team start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 FLEX. .75/1/1.25 PPR for RB/WR/TE.

Team A gave:

RB LeSean McCoy

Team B gave:

WR Michael Floyd

2015 1st round dev pick

2015 2nd round rookie pick (x3)

The guy getting Floyd is working on a little bit of a rebuilding project, having already traded most of his "win now" guys in favor of youth and picks.

not good.

Can definitely and easily do better with minimal effort

He did put some effort into trying to make a deal with another partner, and had at least one offer that I would have thought was a better one.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Apropos of nothing, since this is the trade thread and all...

I just realized today that in my oldest league with 30-man rosters, I currently only own 2 players who were drafted by me either in the startup (Roethlisberger back in 2007) or as rookies (JStew in 2008). I just traded away the third and the fourth such guys (Randall Cobb and Le'Veon Bell). The other 28 players currently on my roster either came via waivers or trades.

Anyone else have similar extreme cases? Typically, what percentage of your team is made up of guys you drafted vs. guys you traded for?

My main league drafted back in 2005 and I remember when I moved Gates last offseason that he was my last originally drafted player.

What I didn't realize is that there are only 2 players (Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith) still on their original teams in the entire league.

 

[ghostguy123]

He did put some effort into trying to make a deal with another partner, and had at least one offer that I would have thought was a better one.

In April, I tell people not to make "the best I could get" deals................ because IT'S APRIL!!!!

Same holds true for June.

 

[cstu]

This one generated some buzz in one of my leagues. I wasn't involved.

14 team start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 FLEX. .75/1/1.25 PPR for RB/WR/TE.

Team A gave:

RB LeSean McCoy

Team B gave:

WR Michael Floyd

2015 1st round dev pick

2015 2nd round rookie pick (x3)

The guy getting Floyd is working on a little bit of a rebuilding project, having already traded most of his "win now" guys in favor of youth and picks.

not good.

Can definitely and easily do better with minimal effort

He did put some effort into trying to make a deal with another partner, and had at least one offer that I would have thought was a better one.

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

 

[ghostguy123]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

 

[cstu]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

How close will McCoy and Floyd be in 2015?

McCoy is a negative asset on a rebuilding team and an injury could drastically decrease his value next year.

 

[ghostguy123]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

How close will McCoy and Floyd be in 2015?

McCoy is a negative asset on a rebuilding team and an injury could drastically decrease his value next year.

Sigh....................I am aware that Mccoys value has nowhere to go but down, and that Floyd's likely increases, and that FLoyd on his team will be better in a couple years than having Mccoy.........................still a horrible trade.

I didnt say not to trade him, but at least get CLOSE to market value, my god.

 

[ghostguy123]

Did I mention it's June?

 

[cstu]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

How close will McCoy and Floyd be in 2015?

McCoy is a negative asset on a rebuilding team and an injury could drastically decrease his value next year.

Sigh....................I am aware that Mccoys value has nowhere to go but down, and that Floyd's likely increases, and that FLoyd on his team will be better in a couple years than having Mccoy.........................still a horrible trade.

I didnt say not to trade him, but at least get CLOSE to market value, my god.

McCoy was traded straight up for Watkins in my league. You may want to get market value but it's not always possible when you only have 11 other owners in different stages of competing or rebuilding.

 

[ghostguy123]

McCoy was traded straight up for Watkins in my league. You may want to get market value but it's not always possible when you only have 11 other owners in different stages of competing or rebuilding.

So.......................wait.....................a.......................little........................longer....................at....................least.......................................it's June 7th

 

[tdmills]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

How close will McCoy and Floyd be in 2015?

McCoy is a negative asset on a rebuilding team and an injury could drastically decrease his value next year.

Sigh....................I am aware that Mccoys value has nowhere to go but down, and that Floyd's likely increases, and that FLoyd on his team will be better in a couple years than having Mccoy.........................still a horrible trade.

I didnt say not to trade him, but at least get CLOSE to market value, my god.

I'm in that league. He shopped him around to every team. It's a 14 teamer with devys, so all of the contenders didn't have the juice to pay market value for Shady and still field a good lineup(he was asking for 2 good, young players). He didn't want to just get devy players/picks because he wanted something proven. So he honestly had a limited market. I had a bunch of trade discussions with him, but I wasn't going to give up near market value because I could see that the rest of the league couldn't offer that and be competitive. Supply/demand.

 

[T.Rex]

McCoy was traded straight up for Watkins in my league. You may want to get market value but it's not always possible when you only have 11 other owners in different stages of competing or rebuilding.

So.......................wait.....................a.......................little........................longer....................at....................least.......................................it's June 7th

Clearly...................you...............value...............McCoy....................more.......................than.................most.................I............prefer.........other side..................of...........both................those.................deals......and..............it's.......still........June.

 

[renesauz]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

How close will McCoy and Floyd be in 2015?

McCoy is a negative asset on a rebuilding team and an injury could drastically decrease his value next year.

Sigh....................I am aware that Mccoys value has nowhere to go but down, and that Floyd's likely increases, and that FLoyd on his team will be better in a couple years than having Mccoy.........................still a horrible trade.

I didnt say not to trade him, but at least get CLOSE to market value, my god.

I'm in that league. He shopped him around to every team. It's a 14 teamer with devys, so all of the contenders didn't have the juice to pay market value for Shady and still field a good lineup(he was asking for 2 good, young players). He didn't want to just get devy players/picks because he wanted something proven. So he honestly had a limited market. I had a bunch of trade discussions with him, but I wasn't going to give up near market value because I could see that the rest of the league couldn't offer that and be competitive. Supply/demand.

This was a big part of it. Nobody could trade the studs he wanted and still be in a position to compete this year. Floyd seems like a good player to get back in the deal, but would have thought he could pull more than a collection of 2's to go with him.

 

[maxhyde]

It may look bad but if he's not going to win this year Floyd is a safer bet to stay healthy than McCoy. I have Floyd as a top 10 dynasty WR and may be the #1 in AZ next year.

It looks bad cause it's bad.

Sure, Floyd will be worth more than Mccoy in a couple years......................but that doesnt make this a bright idea.

How close will McCoy and Floyd be in 2015?

McCoy is a negative asset on a rebuilding team and an injury could drastically decrease his value next year.

Sigh....................I am aware that Mccoys value has nowhere to go but down, and that Floyd's likely increases, and that FLoyd on his team will be better in a couple years than having Mccoy.........................still a horrible trade.

I didnt say not to trade him, but at least get CLOSE to market value, my god.

I'm in that league. He shopped him around to every team. It's a 14 teamer with devys, so all of the contenders didn't have the juice to pay market value for Shady and still field a good lineup(he was asking for 2 good, young players). He didn't want to just get devy players/picks because he wanted something proven. So he honestly had a limited market. I had a bunch of trade discussions with him, but I wasn't going to give up near market value because I could see that the rest of the league couldn't offer that and be competitive. Supply/demand.

This was a big part of it. Nobody could trade the studs he wanted and still be in a position to compete this year. Floyd seems like a good player to get back in the deal, but would have thought he could pull more than a collection of 2's to go with him.

I agree.

I like Floyd but all the 2's and a devy 1st may not have been enough for me to accept that.

Still not terrible but hard to trade top end players sometimes and get full value...however it is June

 

[Coeur de Lion]

McCoy was traded straight up for Watkins in my league. You may want to get market value but it's not always possible when you only have 11 other owners in different stages of competing or rebuilding.

So.......................wait.....................a.......................little........................longer....................at....................least.......................................it's June 7th

Clearly...................you...............value...............McCoy....................more.......................than.................most.................I............prefer.........other side..................of...........both................those.................deals......and..............it's.......still........June.

You actually prefer Floyd, a devy pick, and three rookie 2nds (in a devy diluted pool) in a 14 team 2 RB setup? Wow.

Taking that as the best you can do is one thing (although I agree that I'd certainly wait for a better offer -- McCoy's value is going nowhere anytime soon barring a freak injury in camp which is true for literally anyone). Actually liking that crap over the top RB in a vacuum though? Wow. And I'm a big fan of Floyd relative to most.

 

[Archer]

My cats breath smells like cat food. That is all.