*** OFFICIAL *** 13/14 Off-Season Dynasty Trade Thread (4 Viewers)

[FUBAR]

Devy League

Kaepernick

2014 1.11 rookie

2015 1st rd rookie

2015 1st rd devy

For

Zac Stacy

Team that traded kaep has foles and dalton

Gimme the picks and Kaep.

Easily, but I'm not that big on Stacy.

 

[FUBAR]

12 Team PPR, QRRWWTKD + Flex + Superflex, TE Premium (this is a mirror league to the one earlier in the thread - I run three of these)

Interestingly, another deal involving Shady. Across the three leagues, he's moved twice in three days. There is some Ownership overlap between the leagues, and I am thinking there has been a ton of cross talk, inducing a subsequent deal. Not involved.

Team P gives: McCoy, Olsen, Amendola

Team E gives: Ellington, Rudolph, DMC, Foles, 4.04

Think I still take McCoy.Foles did great but I am not ready to vault him into a top 6-8QB spot yet. Too many solid proven guys I would put ahead of him.

Risky move for the McCoy owner

Foles might by gold in a Superflex, though. Even if there's some risk.

I own Charles in a Superflex and I might move him straight up for Foles. Decision-making is totally different in a league like that.

Superflex, but you're still starting 2-4 RBs. Depends on scoring I suppose, but I think I'd take McCoy.

 

[BuckeyeChaos]

16 team IDP, start 2 DE 2-4 WR 1/2 ppr

give Charles Johnson and 3rd 2015

get Wes Welker

Panther or Brown? presume Panther, but either way give me Wes unless I'm in total rebuild or scoring for DEs is greater than in my IDP leagues.

panther. idp scoring is pretty high

 

[One More Rep]

Devy League

Kaepernick

2014 1.11 rookie

2015 1st rd rookie

2015 1st rd devy

For

Zac Stacy

Team that traded kaep has foles and dalton

Kaepernick and picks

 

[Jere31]

Ic I'm on high on Stacy. Also got 1.3 1.7 it's 2nd year of devy league but still good players available.

 

[Jere31]

Ic I'm on high on Stacy. Also got 1.3 1.7 it's 2nd year of devy league but still good players available.

1.3 1.7 rookie picks that is

 

[FUBAR]

16 team IDP, start 2 DE 2-4 WR 1/2 ppr

give Charles Johnson and 3rd 2015

get Wes Welker

Panther or Brown? presume Panther, but either way give me Wes unless I'm in total rebuild or scoring for DEs is greater than in my IDP leagues.

panther. idp scoring is pretty high

Maybe then. Of course Johnson has a lot longer left in the league, but in mine, DEs are somewhat cheap outside the truly elite. My deepest league has a lot of DEs scoring within a couple points of Johnson on waivers still. We very rarely have a trade of offense for DEs (trades of O for LBs happen occasionally). The highest drafted DEs go in the end of the 2nd or 3rd. (Ansah was the 39th player taken this year)

Always interested to see IDP for Offense trades to see the difference in opinions / leagues.

 

[Jere31]

This trade went down in same Devy league few days ago

Cam

Sammy

For

Peyton

Decker

Morris

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

16 team IDP, start 2 DE 2-4 WR 1/2 ppr

give Charles Johnson and 3rd 2015

get Wes Welker

Panther or Brown? presume Panther, but either way give me Wes unless I'm in total rebuild or scoring for DEs is greater than in my IDP leagues.

panther. idp scoring is pretty high

Maybe then. Of course Johnson has a lot longer left in the league, but in mine, DEs are somewhat cheap outside the truly elite. My deepest league has a lot of DEs scoring within a couple points of Johnson on waivers still. We very rarely have a trade of offense for DEs (trades of O for LBs happen occasionally). The highest drafted DEs go in the end of the 2nd or 3rd. (Ansah was the 39th player taken this year)

Always interested to see IDP for Offense trades to see the difference in opinions / leagues.

Here's one just happened in a league I'm in, though it doesn't involve big name players. 32 team (2 separate 16 team conferences) dynasty IDP, scoring was balanced across offense and defense positions so, for example, DE's score very well:

Team A gives: Toby Gerhardt

Team B gives: Jonathan Massaquoi (sp)

 

[One More Rep]

This trade went down in same Devy league few days ago

Cam

Sammy

For

Peyton

Decker

Morris

Cam/Sammy

 

[maxhyde]

Devy League

Kaepernick

2014 1.11 rookie

2015 1st rd rookie

2015 1st rd devy

For

Zac Stacy

Team that traded kaep has foles and dalton

Gimme the picks and Kaep.

Agreed

 

[maxhyde]

This trade went down in same Devy league few days ago

Cam

Sammy

For

Peyton

Decker

Morris

Cam/Sammy

By miles for me

 

[maxhyde]

16 team IDP, start 2 DE 2-4 WR 1/2 ppr

give Charles Johnson and 3rd 2015

get Wes Welker

Panther or Brown? presume Panther, but either way give me Wes unless I'm in total rebuild or scoring for DEs is greater than in my IDP leagues.

panther. idp scoring is pretty high

Maybe then. Of course Johnson has a lot longer left in the league, but in mine, DEs are somewhat cheap outside the truly elite. My deepest league has a lot of DEs scoring within a couple points of Johnson on waivers still. We very rarely have a trade of offense for DEs (trades of O for LBs happen occasionally). The highest drafted DEs go in the end of the 2nd or 3rd. (Ansah was the 39th player taken this year)

Always interested to see IDP for Offense trades to see the difference in opinions / leagues.

Here's one just happened in a league I'm in, though it doesn't involve big name players. 32 team (2 separate 16 team conferences) dynasty IDP, scoring was balanced across offense and defense positions so, for example, DE's score very well:

Team A gives: Toby Gerhardt

Team B gives: Jonathan Massaquoi (sp)

In that league.

Gerhart isn't a stud or anything but still looks like a good deal to get him

 

[EBF]

Devy League

Kaepernick

2014 1.11 rookie

2015 1st rd rookie

2015 1st rd devy

For

Zac Stacy

Team that traded kaep has foles and dalton

Ouch. That could be a deal the Stacy side regrets for years to come.

 

[ghostguy123]

This trade went down in same Devy league few days ago

Cam

Sammy

For

Peyton

Decker

Morris

Cam/Sammy

By miles for me

yeah, this one isnt remotely close

 

[The_Head_Ape]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

 

[maxhyde]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

Killer deal

 

[One More Rep]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

I would take the 1st but there have been some good players in this mid 2nd range recently

 

[maxhyde]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

I would take the 1st but there have been some good players in this mid 2nd range recently

In 2 QB they aren't top QB options though.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

 

[msudaisy26]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

No kidding, if that does end up the first pick he could trade them for 3 picks that would all be higher then 2.4

 

[ConnSKINS26]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

No kidding, if that does end up the first pick he could trade them for 3 picks that would all be higher then 2.4

Yup, if that ends up the top pick in a mandatory 2QB league, that pick's going to be borderline untouchable. Terrible deal.

 

[ghostguy123]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

No kidding, if that does end up the first pick he could trade them for 3 picks that would all be higher then 2.4

Yup, if that ends up the top pick in a mandatory 2QB league, that pick's going to be borderline untouchable. Terrible deal.

I am thinking one of these days I will get into a dynasty league with mandatory start two Qbs, 12 teamer.

Every deal seems so much different because of it, would be a hoot

 

[ConnSKINS26]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

No kidding, if that does end up the first pick he could trade them for 3 picks that would all be higher then 2.4

Yup, if that ends up the top pick in a mandatory 2QB league, that pick's going to be borderline untouchable. Terrible deal.

I am thinking one of these days I will get into a dynasty league with mandatory start two Qbs, 12 teamer.

Every deal seems so much different because of it, would be a hoot

Changes everything. Guy dealt Doug Martin for Jay Cutler earlier this offseason in my Superflex league (where QB scoring is high enough that it's basically 2QB) and it was considered a pretty fair deal.

And the top rookie picks are almost always QB's...makes the entire first round that much more valuable.

 

[ghostguy123]

Changes everything. Guy dealt Doug Martin for Jay Cutler earlier this offseason in my Superflex league (where QB scoring is high enough that it's basically 2QB) and it was considered a pretty fair deal.And the top rookie picks are almost always QB's...makes the entire first round that much more valuable.

yep, would be interesting. I would be the worst team by far for a while if playing in a league with people who have done it before.

Luck for Calvin and Dez. I can see it now.

 

[coolnerd]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

No kidding, if that does end up the first pick he could trade them for 3 picks that would all be higher then 2.4

Yup, if that ends up the top pick in a mandatory 2QB league, that pick's going to be borderline untouchable. Terrible deal.

With 10 teams as in this trade, QB values increase, but owners don't have to force any late 1st/2nd round QB into the top 5 or so picks like with 12 team or larger 2QB situations. Of course, the best prospects go there, but the drafts in 10 team 2 Qbs are not that far off from 12 team 1 QBs (at least the one have been involved in)

 

[ConnSKINS26]

10 team start QQRRWWWW

2.4

2.5

2.6

For

2015 1st round pick

(should be high as it's the worst team in the league "on paper")

The guy trading away that 1st is going to feel like an idiot if he DOES end up as the worst team and that's what he traded Winston or Mariota for...

No kidding, if that does end up the first pick he could trade them for 3 picks that would all be higher then 2.4

Yup, if that ends up the top pick in a mandatory 2QB league, that pick's going to be borderline untouchable. Terrible deal.

With 10 teams as in this trade, QB values increase, but owners don't have to force any late 1st/2nd round QB into the top 5 or so picks like with 12 team or larger 2QB situations. Of course, the best prospects go there, but the drafts in 10 team 2 Qbs are not that far off from 12 team 1 QBs (at least the one have been involved in)

That can be true, mostly depends on the NFL draft pedigree of the QB's like you said. I'd expect Winston to be the stone-cold 1.01 lock in 2QB and Superflex leagues next year. Maybe Mariota could challenge him for some people.

 

[Deuceman]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Knowshon Moreno

Team B got: Pierre Thomas, 2.7 and 2015 2nd round pick

 

[BuckeyeChaos]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Knowshon Moreno

Team B got: Pierre Thomas, 2.7 and 2015 2nd round pick

gimme Thomas and the picks

 

[JohnnyU]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Knowshon Moreno

Team B got: Pierre Thomas, 2.7 and 2015 2nd round pick

gimme Thomas and the picks

Wasn't Moreno pretty good this year? I know he may not resign with Denver, but he's better than a lot of starting RBs in the league and should find a starting gig. PT is blah and so are those picks.j Give me Moreno in that deal easily.

 

[Sitch]

Few deals from my leagues recently - all 12 team PPR

1) E. Sanders for 2.02

2) DMac for Shorts

3) K. Allen for Shorts, Ertz and 1.05

4) R.Randle, 2.05 and 2.10 for Wheaton and 1.12

 

[JohnnyU]

Few deals from my leagues recently - all 12 team PPR

1) E. Sanders for 2.02

2) DMac for Shorts

3) K. Allen for Shorts, Ertz and 1.05

4) R.Randle, 2.05 and 2.10 for Wheaton and 1.12

I wouldn't give Randle for the anything less than the 1.3 and I probably wouldn't do that either. He will be a monster this year I believe.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Knowshon Moreno

Team B got: Pierre Thomas, 2.7 and 2015 2nd round pick

gimme Thomas and the picks

Wasn't Moreno pretty good this year? I know he may not resign with Denver, but he's better than a lot of starting RBs in the league and should find a starting gig. PT is blah and so are those picks.j Give me Moreno in that deal easily.

Agreed, while the whole meme that Moreno is an average talent may not be that far astray, this is a terrible deal for the team trading him away.

You'd be far better holding onto him and seeing what happens in his new home than giving him away for a 30 year old RB and a mid second or two. The odds that he remains at least productive are much better than Thomas being more than a bye weke flex or eithr of those picks panning out.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Changes everything. Guy dealt Doug Martin for Jay Cutler earlier this offseason in my Superflex league (where QB scoring is high enough that it's basically 2QB) and it was considered a pretty fair deal.

And the top rookie picks are almost always QB's...makes the entire first round that much more valuable.

yep, would be interesting. I would be the worst team by far for a while if playing in a league with people who have done it before.

Luck for Calvin and Dez. I can see it now.

I'm in a league like that (12 team 2 QB). Took over a terrible abandoned team. Took me a few seasons to adjust to the value of QB's. I finally ended up trading Julio and the 1.1 for Russell Wilson, Greg Olsen, and the 1.7. Killed me to do that deal but you can't compete without QB's. Was a bottom dweller and made the playoffs the season after making that deal. Just took me too long to get it.

 

[One More Rep]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Knowshon Moreno

Team B got: Pierre Thomas, 2.7 and 2015 2nd round pick

I would take Moreno but close

 

[althepostman]

Kaepernick and 2015 2nd

for

2.04 and 2015 1st

 

[One More Rep]

Kaepernick and 2015 2nd

for

2.04 and 2015 1st

I will take the 2015 1st

 

[thriftyrocker]

Agreed, while the whole meme that Moreno is an average talent may not be that far astray, this is a terrible deal for the team trading him away.

You'd be far better holding onto him and seeing what happens in his new home than giving him away for a 30 year old RB and a mid second or two. The odds that he remains at least productive are much better than Thomas being more than a bye weke flex or eithr of those picks panning out.

This reminds me of when I traded for SJax last year, thought I got a steal, had the guy come back to me and say he regretted it immediately afterward, and then 2 months later SJax isn't worth much of anything. Losing the picks won't hurt you much, and it's hard to ignore the upside of Moreno playing in Denver again or ending up in another good situation and actually delivering, but it is a deal that can fall flat. Sometimes you cash out before you lose everything.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Kaepernick and 2015 2nd

for

2.04 and 2015 1st

I would easily take Kaepernick assuming the 2015 1st won't be early.

 

[maxhyde]

Kaepernick and 2015 2nd

for

2.04 and 2015 1st

I would easily take Kaepernick assuming the 2015 1st won't be early.

I guess if I really needed a QB I would.

I am not a big Kaep fan but seems like a decent deal if he helps you win some games

 

[maxhyde]

Agreed, while the whole meme that Moreno is an average talent may not be that far astray, this is a terrible deal for the team trading him away.

You'd be far better holding onto him and seeing what happens in his new home than giving him away for a 30 year old RB and a mid second or two. The odds that he remains at least productive are much better than Thomas being more than a bye weke flex or eithr of those picks panning out.

This reminds me of when I traded for SJax last year, thought I got a steal, had the guy come back to me and say he regretted it immediately afterward, and then 2 months later SJax isn't worth much of anything. Losing the picks won't hurt you much, and it's hard to ignore the upside of Moreno playing in Denver again or ending up in another good situation and actually delivering, but it is a deal that can fall flat. Sometimes you cash out before you lose everything.

I agree with the Broncos resigning upside but if Moreno signs with the Raiders or the Jets what is he worth then?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Agreed, while the whole meme that Moreno is an average talent may not be that far astray, this is a terrible deal for the team trading him away.

You'd be far better holding onto him and seeing what happens in his new home than giving him away for a 30 year old RB and a mid second or two. The odds that he remains at least productive are much better than Thomas being more than a bye weke flex or eithr of those picks panning out.

This reminds me of when I traded for SJax last year, thought I got a steal, had the guy come back to me and say he regretted it immediately afterward, and then 2 months later SJax isn't worth much of anything. Losing the picks won't hurt you much, and it's hard to ignore the upside of Moreno playing in Denver again or ending up in another good situation and actually delivering, but it is a deal that can fall flat. Sometimes you cash out before you lose everything.

It would come down to a cost benefit analysis.

I think we can all agree to assume that Pierre Thomas remains nothing more than a decent flex option, at best. So it comes down to the odds of Moreno being fantasy relevant (in Denver or elsewhere) versus the odds of hitting on either, or both of the second round picks.

I'm not a huge beleiver in Moreno - but imo the odds favor him over a mid-second. I'd take that risk every time, and live with seeing him bust and the 2.07 turning into a Andre Ellington, or even better.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Agreed, while the whole meme that Moreno is an average talent may not be that far astray, this is a terrible deal for the team trading him away.

You'd be far better holding onto him and seeing what happens in his new home than giving him away for a 30 year old RB and a mid second or two. The odds that he remains at least productive are much better than Thomas being more than a bye weke flex or eithr of those picks panning out.

This reminds me of when I traded for SJax last year, thought I got a steal, had the guy come back to me and say he regretted it immediately afterward, and then 2 months later SJax isn't worth much of anything. Losing the picks won't hurt you much, and it's hard to ignore the upside of Moreno playing in Denver again or ending up in another good situation and actually delivering, but it is a deal that can fall flat. Sometimes you cash out before you lose everything.

I agree with the Broncos resigning upside but if Moreno signs with the Raiders or the Jets what is he worth then?

I don't think we can really know - but a 7th round pick (Jennings) and an UDFA (Ivory) both performed failry well for those two teams last season. Surely a former first round pick coming off a great season, would have a chance to be fantasy relevant in either location.

Like I said I'm not a huge Moreno fan, but this thread is telling me he could be a guy to target.

 

[menobrown]

I'm on the other side there. I think that's stealing Cameron.

EBF. this is why I like posting my trades here. I count 4 preferring the Vereen/Davis side and one preferring the Cameron side. My team is very strong and Cameron is my back up TE - I also have Graham. Makes it easier to part with Cameron. Taking a chance Vereen can become a more consistent RB.

Make it 5 to 1. I looked at that trade as you basically getting Vereen for close to nothing.

Davis had a big season in 2013, but that was with Crabtree out. The year prior he finished right around TE20 despite playing in all 16 games. Over the course of his career he's put together a few really good seasons, but he's 30 years old and he's always been a better raw athlete than receiver. Once he loses a step, a lot of what makes him special will be gone. He's not the innate pass catcher that Witten and Gonzo are. Add it all up and I don't think he's worth very much moving forward. He'll probably give you 2-3 years of TE8-TE12 production. That's not going to put you over the edge in a typical league.

Vereen vs. Cameron isn't that close for me. Cameron is one of the top 3-4 talents in the league at his position. He has a chance to give you real difference maker production at a required starting spot. Vereen had nice ppg down the stretch last year, but three years out he still hasn't put together a top 20 FF season. He doesn't carry the ball, so you're basically relying on his receptions for his FF points. That makes him equivalent to someone like Sproles, who has always been useful but never really a difference-maker.

I just think it's giving up two fringe FF starters for a guy who could be top 2-3 at his position next year. I'd rather have the one really good player than the two moderately useful pieces.

Depends if you really think Cameron is a top 2-3 TE. Of course we don't know how consistent Cameon will be since he only had one good season out of 3 in the NFL. We do know that in season he was inconsistent in his one good year. Also I have much more confidence in SF offense going forward. The way NE uses and rotates their RBs is a concern. I'm worreid Vereen could be the next Kevin Faulk but overall the dropoff (if any) from Cameron to Davis is worht the chance Vereen can become a solid PPR RB.

That's really it in a nutshell. I don't think Cameron is that great. Not close to a top 2-3 TE. I put his talent level just a small notch above a guy like Fleener. He broke out with the most TE friendly coaching duo a player could have and both of those guys are gone. Improved QB play can help make up some of that loss but I would not be surprised if Cameron just had his best season.

This seems to be the prevailing wisdom on Cameron. I think his ADP in 12 team startups is somewhere in the 5th round. To me, he might be more of a 3rd round candidate. I get that he had a quiet second half of the season, but I view him a legitimate talent rather than a one-off fluke. He's 6'5 1/4" and 252 pounds. He runs routes like a WR. He's got some of the best combine measurables of any TE in the league. 4.53 40, 37.5" vertical, 9'11" broad jump, and 6.82 three cone. Those are Jimmy Graham numbers. He's just a little bit smaller. He passes the eyeball test for me and his production was outstanding last season.

I'd feel pretty good about getting him for a fringe player like Vereen and an inconsistent fading star like Davis. I view him as a possible core player in dynasty leagues. The other guys are basically just filler. Any time you can trade filler for a core player, I'm usually going to be a fan of that move.

Yes they are Graham like combine numbers but they are also extremely similar to Fleener and Olsen combine/pro day numbers as well and that's more of what I see Cameron as, not Graham.

Previous to this past season I saw a soft player who could not separate. Which is the primary issue I see right now with Fleener and was the primary issue I saw with Olsen before Chud got ahold of him.

As for his numbers I thought they were more good than great. Nice number of catches and TD's but generally speaking in line with the high target usage, which was third most among TE's. Vernon almost doubled him up on TD's and matched his yardage on 70% of the targets. That's impressive numbers to me but I do think they recede when Crabtree is back for full season but does not take away the fact I think Vernon is a far superior talent to Cameron. An older talent but a superior one.

I'd likely prefer Cameron over Vernon straight up in dynasty due to that age gap and what could be some lean or non consistent usage for Vernon next season. But the big key here, where I think we likely disagree way more then our perceptions of Cameron, is our perception of Vereen. I don't see him as filler in the least. In PPR leagues he was RB10 in points per game which I think he can do at least next year.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Agreed, while the whole meme that Moreno is an average talent may not be that far astray, this is a terrible deal for the team trading him away.

You'd be far better holding onto him and seeing what happens in his new home than giving him away for a 30 year old RB and a mid second or two. The odds that he remains at least productive are much better than Thomas being more than a bye weke flex or eithr of those picks panning out.

This reminds me of when I traded for SJax last year, thought I got a steal, had the guy come back to me and say he regretted it immediately afterward, and then 2 months later SJax isn't worth much of anything. Losing the picks won't hurt you much, and it's hard to ignore the upside of Moreno playing in Denver again or ending up in another good situation and actually delivering, but it is a deal that can fall flat. Sometimes you cash out before you lose everything.

I agree with the Broncos resigning upside but if Moreno signs with the Raiders or the Jets what is he worth then?

I don't think we can really know - but a 7th round pick (Jennings) and an UDFA (Ivory) both performed failry well for those two teams last season. Surely a former first round pick coming off a great season, would have a chance to be fantasy relevant in either location.

Like I said I'm not a huge Moreno fan, but this thread is telling me he could be a guy to target.

I wonder about Moreno's role in a different situation where dynamic ability as a runner might trump reliability as a blocker / receiver. It'll be interesting to see what level of contract he gets -- I kind of think that he might end up as a pure passing down specialist as opposed to landing a gig as a featured guy.

 

[EBF]

I'm on the other side there. I think that's stealing Cameron.

EBF. this is why I like posting my trades here. I count 4 preferring the Vereen/Davis side and one preferring the Cameron side. My team is very strong and Cameron is my back up TE - I also have Graham. Makes it easier to part with Cameron. Taking a chance Vereen can become a more consistent RB.

Make it 5 to 1. I looked at that trade as you basically getting Vereen for close to nothing.

Davis had a big season in 2013, but that was with Crabtree out. The year prior he finished right around TE20 despite playing in all 16 games. Over the course of his career he's put together a few really good seasons, but he's 30 years old and he's always been a better raw athlete than receiver. Once he loses a step, a lot of what makes him special will be gone. He's not the innate pass catcher that Witten and Gonzo are. Add it all up and I don't think he's worth very much moving forward. He'll probably give you 2-3 years of TE8-TE12 production. That's not going to put you over the edge in a typical league.

Vereen vs. Cameron isn't that close for me. Cameron is one of the top 3-4 talents in the league at his position. He has a chance to give you real difference maker production at a required starting spot. Vereen had nice ppg down the stretch last year, but three years out he still hasn't put together a top 20 FF season. He doesn't carry the ball, so you're basically relying on his receptions for his FF points. That makes him equivalent to someone like Sproles, who has always been useful but never really a difference-maker.

I just think it's giving up two fringe FF starters for a guy who could be top 2-3 at his position next year. I'd rather have the one really good player than the two moderately useful pieces.

Depends if you really think Cameron is a top 2-3 TE. Of course we don't know how consistent Cameon will be since he only had one good season out of 3 in the NFL. We do know that in season he was inconsistent in his one good year. Also I have much more confidence in SF offense going forward. The way NE uses and rotates their RBs is a concern. I'm worreid Vereen could be the next Kevin Faulk but overall the dropoff (if any) from Cameron to Davis is worht the chance Vereen can become a solid PPR RB.

That's really it in a nutshell. I don't think Cameron is that great. Not close to a top 2-3 TE. I put his talent level just a small notch above a guy like Fleener. He broke out with the most TE friendly coaching duo a player could have and both of those guys are gone. Improved QB play can help make up some of that loss but I would not be surprised if Cameron just had his best season.

This seems to be the prevailing wisdom on Cameron. I think his ADP in 12 team startups is somewhere in the 5th round. To me, he might be more of a 3rd round candidate. I get that he had a quiet second half of the season, but I view him a legitimate talent rather than a one-off fluke. He's 6'5 1/4" and 252 pounds. He runs routes like a WR. He's got some of the best combine measurables of any TE in the league. 4.53 40, 37.5" vertical, 9'11" broad jump, and 6.82 three cone. Those are Jimmy Graham numbers. He's just a little bit smaller. He passes the eyeball test for me and his production was outstanding last season.

I'd feel pretty good about getting him for a fringe player like Vereen and an inconsistent fading star like Davis. I view him as a possible core player in dynasty leagues. The other guys are basically just filler. Any time you can trade filler for a core player, I'm usually going to be a fan of that move.

Yes they are Graham like combine numbers but they are also extremely similar to Fleener and Olsen combine/pro day numbers as well and that's more of what I see Cameron as, not Graham.

Previous to this past season I saw a soft player who could not separate. Which is the primary issue I see right now with Fleener and was the primary issue I saw with Olsen before Chud got ahold of him.

As for his numbers I thought they were more good than great. Nice number of catches and TD's but generally speaking in line with the high target usage, which was third most among TE's. Vernon almost doubled him up on TD's and matched his yardage on 70% of the targets. That's impressive numbers to me but I do think they recede when Crabtree is back for full season but does not take away the fact I think Vernon is a far superior talent to Cameron. An older talent but a superior one.

I'd likely prefer Cameron over Vernon straight up in dynasty due to that age gap and what could be some lean or non consistent usage for Vernon next season. But the big key here, where I think we likely disagree way more then our perceptions of Cameron, is our perception of Vereen. I don't see him as filler in the least. In PPR leagues he was RB10 in points per game which I think he can do at least next year.

We'll see. Cameron just had a 917 yard season, which is far better than anything Fleener has ever done and also better than any season Olsen has ever had even though Olsen has already been in the league for 7 years. I don't see him as the creation of opportunity because he looks like the real deal to me and has measurables to back it up.

It took him a while to get rolling in the NFL, but some of that is likely due to nagging injuries in his first two seasons and also his lack of experience. His college career did not really prepare him to walk onto the field in the NFL and thrive from day one. Now that he's comfortable with the TE position, he seems to have turned the corner and I think he'll rank right near the top of the TE scoring for the next few years.

I'd take him over Vereen without hesitation. Vernon is a useful player, but he's also a very inconsistent one approaching the backslope of his career. I generally agree with the "the team getting the best player in the trade wins" and Cameron is the best player in that deal IMO.

 

[Evil G]

12 Team PPR QRRWWTKD + Flex + SuperFlex, TE Premium. Not involved.

Team G gives Antonio Brown, 1.06

Team Z gives: Gronk

 

[One More Rep]

12 Team PPR QRRWWTKD + Flex + SuperFlex, TE Premium. Not involved.

Team G gives Antonio Brown, 1.06

Team Z gives: Gronk

Brown/1.6

 

[Evil G]

12 Team PPR QRRWWTKD + Flex + SuperFlex, TE Premium. Not involved.

Team G gives Antonio Brown, 1.06

Team Z gives: Gronk

Brown/1.6

Those are my thoughts too, personally. Not by a ton, if Gronk comes back healthy. Big IF.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Gronk, not even close. I own Gronk in a TE premium league and that offer wouldn't even make me think.