*** OFFICIAL *** 13/14 Off-Season Dynasty Trade Thread (2 Viewers)

[bostonfred]

Team A: K. Wright, Z. Ertz, 2.8

Team B: Forte

Team A: K. Davis and 3.08

Team B: K. Stills

Team A: MJD and 2.4

Team B: T. Austin

1st trade is a good one. I take ertz and co unless im legitimately a player away.Second trade give me stills, but im not really enamored with it.

Third trade give me the pick side. 2.4 for austin isn't a bad deal on its own, so you basically get mjd for free.

People are really missing the boat on Austin in PPR.

Its not that I don't like austin, I just don't have any separation between austin and, say, davante adams. Or jordan mathews. Or kelvin benjamin. There's a long list of guys I think have very similar upside to austin, and 2.4 is the tail end of where you can get them. If you like austin more than those guys, then trading an old running back who's in a timeshare in oakland isn't the worst choice. But there really isn't that much separation. austin could easily end up being the best or worst of that group.

 

[thriftyrocker]

12 tm 0.5 ppr

gerhart

2.12

2015 3rd

 

[bostonfred]

12 tm 0.5 ppr

gerhart

2.12

2015 3rd

gerhart by a lot. 2.12 isn't a bad pick, but its still a lottery ticket. Two lottery tickets for one starter isn't a good trade.

 

[cstu]

Team A: K. Wright, Z. Ertz, 2.8

Team B: Forte

Team A: K. Davis and 3.08

Team B: K. Stills

Team A: MJD and 2.4

Team B: T. Austin

1st trade is a good one. I take ertz and co unless im legitimately a player away.Second trade give me stills, but im not really enamored with it.

Third trade give me the pick side. 2.4 for austin isn't a bad deal on its own, so you basically get mjd for free.

People are really missing the boat on Austin in PPR.

Its not that I don't like austin, I just don't have any separation between austin and, say, davante adams. Or jordan mathews. Or kelvin benjamin. There's a long list of guys I think have very similar upside to austin, and 2.4 is the tail end of where you can get them. If you like austin more than those guys, then trading an old running back who's in a timeshare in oakland isn't the worst choice. But there really isn't that much separation. austin could easily end up being the best or worst of that group.

I see what you're saying. All those guys went before 2.4 in my leagues and I'm looking at Moncrief or Richardson at the spot (or Mason/Hill/Freeman at RB). I still prefer Austin to Adams, Robinson and Benjamin (not many do though).

 

[bostonfred]

Yeah, it totally depends on the league. But if all those receivers were gone, and watkins, evans, cooks, , and the jax duo, and ebron, and probably manziel, then like you said, mason/freeman/hill were available. And personally, I have freeman rated the highest of the bunch, so that's even better news to me because I would gladly trade austin for freeman.

But thats just my preference from a group of similarly ranked guys, which is kind of my point. 2.4 is the last gasp of the high end prospect tier in this years draft. Austin would be somewhere in that mix if he had come out this year. Personally, I think he would have slid towards the end of that group. But some people like him, others like adams, others like mason. I like freeman, you like austin. They're all ranked closely enough that everyone just takes their favorite guy and feels like they got a bargain. Unless austin is your guy (and in this case he is), 2.4 is about the same as what he's worth.

So I see that part as a reasonable trade, with mjd as the filler. I guess if you like austin more than most of the guys in this tier, though, then its fair to ask for a lower end player as a sweetener.

 

[Dragon1952]

14 team, PPR = .33RB, .66WR, 1TE

Vincent Jackson, Rashad Jennings, Jeff Cumberland

for

Golden Tate, Ladarius Green

 

[FUBAR]

Team A: K. Wright, Z. Ertz, 2.8

Team B: Forte

Team A: K. Davis and 3.08

Team B: K. Stills

Team A: MJD and 2.4

Team B: T. Austin

1st trade is a good one. I take ertz and co unless im legitimately a player away.Second trade give me stills, but im not really enamored with it.

Third trade give me the pick side. 2.4 for austin isn't a bad deal on its own, so you basically get mjd for free.

Agreed on the first two, but I'd take Austin easily for that in PPR. Granted, he has plenty of risk but so do the mid 2nd round rookies.

 

[FUBAR]

14 team, PPR = .33RB, .66WR, 1TE

Vincent Jackson, Rashad Jennings, Jeff Cumberland

for

Golden Tate, Ladarius Green

presuming the apparent - team getting L Green is building, the other is prioritizing 2014), good trade. very fair deal

 

[Rolling_akg]

Sproles for charles sims + 2015 2nd (likely late)

 

[One More Rep]

Sproles for charles sims + 2015 2nd (likely late)

Nice deal getting Sims and a 2nd

 

[Evil G]

12 Team PPR SuperFlex TE Premium

Gave: AP, McKinnon, Cobb, Cam, 2015 1st (mid)

Got: Luck, Patterson, Lacy

 

[Hawkfire]

Team A: Jordan Reed + 2.9

Team B: 1.08

Team A: Romo, J. Hunter

Team B: Brees, G. Tate

 

[False Start]

12 Team PPR SuperFlex TE Premium

Gave: AP, McKinnon, Cobb, Cam, 2015 1st (mid)

Got: Luck, Patterson, Lacy

Give me Luck, Patterson and Lacy all day!

 

[False Start]

Sproles for charles sims + 2015 2nd (likely late)

Nice deal getting Sims and a 2nd

Have to agree here.

 

[False Start]

Team A: Jordan Reed + 2.9

Team B: 1.08

Team A: Romo, J. Hunter

Team B: Brees, G. Tate

Like Team B on both accounts, Reed is a concussion away from having a lot of time off.

 

[maxhyde]

12 Team PPR SuperFlex TE Premium

Gave: AP, McKinnon, Cobb, Cam, 2015 1st (mid)

Got: Luck, Patterson, Lacy

Give me Luck, Patterson and Lacy all day!

I like Cam side I think. If Cobb re-signs in GB I think the value is pretty even

It is close and I like most of the players involved so good deal

 

[maxhyde]

Julio (4 years) + Charles Johnson DE (1 year)

for

Cobb (4 years) + 1.12

Julio easy.

Way too easy

 

[cstu]

12 Team PPR SuperFlex TE Premium

Gave: AP, McKinnon, Cobb, Cam, 2015 1st (mid)

Got: Luck, Patterson, Lacy

Give me Luck, Patterson and Lacy all day!

I like Cam side I think. If Cobb re-signs in GB I think the value is pretty evenIt is close and I like most of the players involved so good deal

Comes down to AP and 1st for Lacy. Could make the case either way, very close trade.

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

10 team .5 PPR

Ebron

2015 first

For

Cameron

2015 third

 

[thaniz]

16 team 1000 dollar salary cap idp league. Tiered PPR (RB 0.5, WR 1 and TE 1.5)

Team A gave:

3.06 and 3.08

Team B gave:

3.15 and J. Boykin 1 dollar and 2 years left on contract.

 

[adrenaline]

12 Team Dynasty PPR

Alpha gave up Gronkowski, Rob NEP TE; Ansah, Ezekiel DET DE; Collins, Jamie NEP LB
Tampa Bay PAiN gave up Ingram, Mark NOS RB; Hunter, Justin TEN WR; Bennett, Martellus CHI TE; Year 2014 Draft Pick 1.08; Year 2014 Draft Pick 2.10

Alpha gave up Hunt, Margus CIN DE;Cushing, Brian HOU LB
Shank gave up Hunter, Kendall SFO RB;Sanders, Emmanuel DEN WR
Alpha gave up Johnson, Dennis HOU RB; Year 2014 Draft Pick 1.05
Shank gave up Ellington, Andre ARI RB

Alpha gave up Bartu, Joplo ATL LB;Irvin, Bruce SEA LB; Year 2014 Draft Pick 5.03;Year 2014 Draft Pick 6.05
Shank gave up Jackson, D'Qwell IND LB;Roach, Nick OAK LB

Alpha gave up Griffin III, Robert WAS QB
Stwongbad gave up Ryan, Matt ATL QB;Griffin, Ryan HOU TE;Hightower, Dont'a NEP LB

Shank gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 1.03
Alpha gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 1.08;Year 2014 Draft Pick 2.10
12 Team Dynasty PPR Start Up

La Albiceleste gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 2.01
Steelworkers gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 6.05; Year 2014 Draft Pick 7.08; Year 2014 Draft Pick 8.05

Steelworkers gave up Year 2015 Round 1 Draft Pick from Steelworkers
Genuine Drafter gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 6.02

Steelworkers gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 3.08; Year 2014 Draft Pick 25.08
La Albiceleste gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 6.01; Year 2014 Draft Pick 6.05
DW's Dastardly D-bags gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 11.09;Year 2014 Draft Pick 23.07
Steelworkers gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 15.08;Year 2014 Draft Pick 27.08; Year 2015 Round 2 Draft Pick from Steelworkers

DW's Dastardly D-bags gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 17.03
Steelworkers gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 19.08; Year 2015 Round 3 Draft Pick from Steelworkers

Steelworkers gave up Year 2015 Round 4 Draft Pick from Steelworkers
DW's Dastardly D-bags gave up Year 2014 Draft Pick 26.01

 

[Hawkfire]

Team A: Jordan Reed + 2.9

Team B: 1.08

Team A: Romo, J. Hunter

Team B: Brees, G. Tate

Now the Brees owner is saying the trade was Romo, Hunter, 1.08 for Brees, Tate

 

[Hawkfire]

Team A: Jordan Reed + 2.9

Team B: 1.08

Team A: Romo, J. Hunter

Team B: Brees, G. Tate

Now the Brees owner is saying the trade was Romo, Hunter, 1.08 for Brees, Tate

Final resolution was Romo, Hunter, 2015 2nd for Brees, Tate

 

[Deuceman]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Ryan Mathews, Joique Bell and Dwayne Allen

Team B got: Tre Mason and Jordan Cameron

 

[jeaton6]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Ryan Mathews, Joique Bell and Dwayne Allen

Team B got: Tre Mason and Jordan Cameron[/] Team B got best player but seems pretty even to me.

 

[One More Rep]

12 Team PPR

Team A got: Ryan Mathews, Joique Bell and Dwayne Allen

Team B got: Tre Mason and Jordan Cameron

Pretty close but Mason/Cameron for me

 

[KCKraken]

Team A sends Marcus Lattimore, 2015 2nd, 2016 2nd

Team B sends Toby Gerhart, 2015 4th, 2016 3rd.

Team B is in the middle of a complete rebuild.

 

[jeaton6]

I like what team A is getting but understand why Tram B made the trade. I probably would have tried getting a 2015 1st ilo the 2015 and 2016 2nd.

 

[Deflinkin]

Gave: JCam and Allen

Got: Lacy, Randle, Lad Green, and 2.09

 

[jeaton6]

Lacy side. Seems like other side could have held onto Randle.

 

[cstu]

Lacy side. Seems like other side could have held onto Randle.

Lacy and Allen are pretty close, don't think Green and the 2.09 was enough to get Cameron.

 

[bostonfred]

Lacy side. Seems like other side could have held onto Randle.

Lacy and Allen are pretty close, don't think Green and the 2.09 was enough to get Cameron.

this is everything wrong with dynasty ppr leagues in a nutshell. Lacy is a consensus top 6 or so running back, and he's arguably the best combination of age, talent and situation in all of fantasy. Allen isn't even close to top 6, and he's not at the top of my next tier, either, although he obviously has his fans. But when you add in ppr, and don't require people to start at least two backs, on top of the longevity factor for receivers, I guess this is a reasonable stance. Personally I think its cuckoo. Its hard enough to find a stud runner, but a guy who should last for close to a decade? Might be the most scarce commodity in fantasy football outside jimmy graham.

 

[FUBAR]

Lacy side. Seems like other side could have held onto Randle.

Lacy and Allen are pretty close, don't think Green and the 2.09 was enough to get Cameron.

this is everything wrong with dynasty ppr leagues in a nutshell. Lacy is a consensus top 6 or so running back, and he's arguably the best combination of age, talent and situation in all of fantasy. Allen isn't even close to top 6, and he's not at the top of my next tier, either, although he obviously has his fans. But when you add in ppr, and don't require people to start at least two backs, on top of the longevity factor for receivers, I guess this is a reasonable stance. Personally I think its cuckoo. Its hard enough to find a stud runner, but a guy who should last for close to a decade? Might be the most scarce commodity in fantasy football outside jimmy graham.

It's not wrong to value receivers higher than running backs. Just different than you might like.I wouldn't bet on Lacy lasting a decade either. Though he could.

 

[LususV]

Lacy side. Seems like other side could have held onto Randle.

Lacy and Allen are pretty close, don't think Green and the 2.09 was enough to get Cameron.

this is everything wrong with dynasty ppr leagues in a nutshell. Lacy is a consensus top 6 or so running back, and he's arguably the best combination of age, talent and situation in all of fantasy. Allen isn't even close to top 6, and he's not at the top of my next tier, either, although he obviously has his fans. But when you add in ppr, and don't require people to start at least two backs, on top of the longevity factor for receivers, I guess this is a reasonable stance. Personally I think its cuckoo. Its hard enough to find a stud runner, but a guy who should last for close to a decade? Might be the most scarce commodity in fantasy football outside jimmy graham.

July 5th, 2013:

Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice

July 5th, 2012:

Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD

July 5th, 2011:

Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis

... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy).

If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

 

[Truman]

Team A :

Chris Johnson

Team B:

Ridley

Robert Woods

Greg Little

 

[bostonfred]

July 5th, 2013:

Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice

July 5th, 2012:

Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD

July 5th, 2011:

Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis

... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy).

If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

1) So why would you want to play in a league which further dilutes the value of the position? The NFL has already devalued running backs with rule changes and the market has responded. Dynasty formats devalue running backs vs. receivers just by virtue of the longevity in their positions. You can set league rules that further devalue running backs by giving a point per reception, which favors a handful of backs but devalues the majority of them. Then you can dilute their value even further by allowing teams to start just one running back and all kinds of PPR hog receivers. The recent trend towards doing ALL of those things is an absurd overreaction to the old RB-RB-RB league problem, and I think it's a bad trend.

 

[LususV]

July 5th, 2013:

Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice

July 5th, 2012:

Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD

July 5th, 2011:

Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis

... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy).

If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

1) So why would you want to play in a league which further dilutes the value of the position? The NFL has already devalued running backs with rule changes and the market has responded. Dynasty formats devalue running backs vs. receivers just by virtue of the longevity in their positions. You can set league rules that further devalue running backs by giving a point per reception, which favors a handful of backs but devalues the majority of them. Then you can dilute their value even further by allowing teams to start just one running back and all kinds of PPR hog receivers. The recent trend towards doing ALL of those things is an absurd overreaction to the old RB-RB-RB league problem, and I think it's a bad trend.

Everyone can join or quit leagues as they please. I play in one QB, 3 RB, 4 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex league. RBs trade for a king's ransom.

 

[bostonfred]

July 5th, 2013:

Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice

July 5th, 2012:

Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD

July 5th, 2011:

Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis

... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy).

If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

Just because running backs get hurt, doesn't mean that you don't need them. The McCoy, Peterson, Charles and Lynch owners made the playoffs in just about every league I was in last year. The AJ Green, Julio Jones and Dez Bryant owners didn't.

2) The thing is, while there are some truly elite receivers in the league right now - guys like Harrison, Moss and Owens gave way to guys like Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne, who gave way to guys like Calvin, Dez and AJ Green - Keenan Allen isn't in that elite tier. He's in the 11-20 range. Here are some guys from that same range over the past few years:

2013: Larry Fitzgerald, Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, James Jones

2012: Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, Kenny Britt, Greg Little, Justin Blackmon

2011: Kenny Britt, Dwayne Bowe, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin, Stevie Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Reggie Wayne

Not all of those guys were TOTAL busts, mind you, but neither were the ones you listed. Ray Rice had four straight years of stud RB production and may have two or three more left in him. Chris Johnson six years of 1000+ yard seasons including his 2000 yarder, and may have two or three more left in him. During that time he's had a year and a half of down production, but otherwise been everything he's supposed to. MJD had six years of top RB production. The jury's still out on Richardson, but Martin still holds his elite trade value. Spiller didn't hit the ground running, so he isn't really a comparable to Lacy, who did. He had a stud season in year three, then played hurt last year in his fourth year in the league.

You also ignored guys like Adrian Peterson and LeSean McCoy. But that's because you were looking for busts. So I didn't list some of the true stud talent that came out of those tiers - guys who were undeniable hits at RB or WR. There are instances of both at both positions. Cherry picking one or the other for the benefit of your argument doesn't help anyone.

 

[jeaton6]

Lacy side. Seems like other side could have held onto Randle.

Lacy and Allen are pretty close, don't think Green and the 2.09 was enough to get Cameron.

I like Allen but I don't have him that close to Lacy to make the above the case.

 

[Truman]

July 5th, 2013:Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice July 5th, 2012arren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD July 5th, 2011:Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis ... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy). If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

1) So why would you want to play in a league which further dilutes the value of the position? The NFL has already devalued running backs with rule changes and the market has responded. Dynasty formats devalue running backs vs. receivers just by virtue of the longevity in their positions. You can set league rules that further devalue running backs by giving a point per reception, which favors a handful of backs but devalues the majority of them. Then you can dilute their value even further by allowing teams to start just one running back and all kinds of PPR hog receivers. The recent trend towards doing ALL of those things is an absurd overreaction to the old RB-RB-RB league problem, and I think it's a bad trend.

PPR reduces variance. Top WRs are more consistent from year to year. Assets like 2000s LT and ADP are all timers who are an exception to the rule. Given the amount of luck involved anyway I would rather play in a format that minimises variance. If you want something that really values all positions why not a 2 QB league? In current fantasy formats the most important position in the game is the most irrelevant.

 

[bostonfred]

3) Even if you choose to play in that crap format, the depth at receiver is ridiculous right now.

http://dynastyleaguefootball.com/rankings/wr-rankings/

The #40 receiver on that list - Jeremy Maclin - could easily outscore Keenan Allen this year. I wouldn't be shocked to see #30, DeSean Jackson, outscore him either. If you tried to trade Allen straight up for #20, Cordarelle Patterson, it wouldn't be unreasonable for either owner to ask for a little more as a sweetener.

Yet on this list, Keenan Allen is currently ranked 10th. That's a pretty arbitrary ranking. You can make a case for #11, Antonio Brown, over Allen and nobody would argue after Brown has one of the best receiving seasons in fantasy. #27, Kendall Wright, had more receptions and more yards than Allen, but because he didn't score as many TDs playing with backup QBs the last two years he's ranked 17 spots lower. And I haven't even mentioned any of the guys from the deepest rookie WR class we've ever seen.

Great young receivers are a dime a dozen. Lacy, on the other hand, is not. He averaged over 100 yards per game and had 11 TDs in 14 games for him. He's one of a small handful of running backs who play every down, and who can run, catch, and score, and who play on top offenses. Yet people are unironically talking about him having about the same value as one of those many stud WRs. That's absolutely ridiculous, yet it's perfectly correct strategy in these leagues that overemphasize WRs in every possible way.

 

[One More Rep]

Team A :

Chris Johnson

Team B:

Ridley

Robert Woods

Greg Little

Ridley/Woods

 

[bostonfred]

July 5th, 2013:Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice July 5th, 2012arren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD July 5th, 2011:Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis ... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy). If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

1) So why would you want to play in a league which further dilutes the value of the position? The NFL has already devalued running backs with rule changes and the market has responded. Dynasty formats devalue running backs vs. receivers just by virtue of the longevity in their positions. You can set league rules that further devalue running backs by giving a point per reception, which favors a handful of backs but devalues the majority of them. Then you can dilute their value even further by allowing teams to start just one running back and all kinds of PPR hog receivers. The recent trend towards doing ALL of those things is an absurd overreaction to the old RB-RB-RB league problem, and I think it's a bad trend.

PPR reduces variance. Top WRs are more consistent from year to year. Assets like 2000s LT and ADP are all timers who are an exception to the rule. Given the amount of luck involved anyway I would rather play in a format that minimises variance. If you want something that really values all positions why not a 2 QB league? In current fantasy formats the most important position in the game is the most irrelevant.

I don't favor one format over another. I don't care how realistic it is, or how much week to week or year to year variance there is. I've played for decades in lots of different formats, and I can remember when QBs were considered overpowered, because Brett Favre was unstoppable when he was scoring 39 TDs and nobody else came close to 30, or Kurt Warner came off waivers to crush leagues as the leader of the greatest show on turf. And people changed the rules to 3 pt passing TDs and one point per 25 instead of per 20 yards passing. I remember stud RB theory dominating the day, and people adopting PPR to try to balance the positions. One of my longest standing leagues went to a 2QB model, and we love it.I don't care which format you play in and I don't think one format is better of worse. But the current trend towards PPR formats and especially the 1 RB/1 WR/3 FLEX format has dominated the dynasty discussion here recently, and I think it massively overemphasizes WR values. So I think it's reasonable to bring that up in a thread about interpositional trade values, because in most other formats, I think it would be absurd to trade one of the highest ranked running backs for any but a small handful of receivers straight up.

 

[Adam Harstad]

3) Even if you choose to play in that crap format, the depth at receiver is ridiculous right now.

http://dynastyleaguefootball.com/rankings/wr-rankings/

The #40 receiver on that list - Jeremy Maclin - could easily outscore Keenan Allen this year. I wouldn't be shocked to see #30, DeSean Jackson, outscore him either. If you tried to trade Allen straight up for #20, Cordarelle Patterson, it wouldn't be unreasonable for either owner to ask for a little more as a sweetener.

Yet on this list, Keenan Allen is currently ranked 10th. That's a pretty arbitrary ranking. You can make a case for #11, Antonio Brown, over Allen and nobody would argue after Brown has one of the best receiving seasons in fantasy. #27, Kendall Wright, had more receptions and more yards than Allen, but because he didn't score as many TDs playing with backup QBs the last two years he's ranked 17 spots lower. And I haven't even mentioned any of the guys from the deepest rookie WR class we've ever seen.

Great young receivers are a dime a dozen. Lacy, on the other hand, is not. He averaged over 100 yards per game and had 11 TDs in 14 games for him. He's one of a small handful of running backs who play every down, and who can run, catch, and score, and who play on top offenses. Yet people are unironically talking about him having about the same value as one of those many stud WRs. That's absolutely ridiculous, yet it's perfectly correct strategy in these leagues that overemphasize WRs in every possible way.

It's important to remember that, when Lacy was drafted, three NFL teams (Denver, Pittsburgh, and a third anonymous franchise) reportedly were concerned that his fused toe would not impact him in the short term, but would cause issues within 2-3 years and shorten his NFL career. Personally, when I value Lacy, I treat him more like a 25-year-old instead of a 23-year-old, just to try to account for that lurking risk.

With that said, I do agree that PPR isn't a great scoring system for dynasty. PPR was designed to bring WR values in line with RB values in redraft leagues. The problem is that receivers didn't NEED a boost in dynasty- they already had their longer careers bringing their value more in line with RB value in dynasty. Adding PPR on top of that skews the math too much in favor of the receivers.

 

[Zyphros]

10 team 2QB 3WR 2RB 2TE 2flex .5 PPR

A gave up: Montee/Russel

B gave up: Gordon/T-Rich/Lattimore/2.10/2015 2nd/2015 4th

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this one. B is trying to compete and A is kind of in a rebuild but I fail to make sense of why A did this. Am I missing something?

 

[bostonfred]

3) Even if you choose to play in that crap format, the depth at receiver is ridiculous right now.

http://dynastyleaguefootball.com/rankings/wr-rankings/

The #40 receiver on that list - Jeremy Maclin - could easily outscore Keenan Allen this year. I wouldn't be shocked to see #30, DeSean Jackson, outscore him either. If you tried to trade Allen straight up for #20, Cordarelle Patterson, it wouldn't be unreasonable for either owner to ask for a little more as a sweetener.

Yet on this list, Keenan Allen is currently ranked 10th. That's a pretty arbitrary ranking. You can make a case for #11, Antonio Brown, over Allen and nobody would argue after Brown has one of the best receiving seasons in fantasy. #27, Kendall Wright, had more receptions and more yards than Allen, but because he didn't score as many TDs playing with backup QBs the last two years he's ranked 17 spots lower. And I haven't even mentioned any of the guys from the deepest rookie WR class we've ever seen.

Great young receivers are a dime a dozen. Lacy, on the other hand, is not. He averaged over 100 yards per game and had 11 TDs in 14 games for him. He's one of a small handful of running backs who play every down, and who can run, catch, and score, and who play on top offenses. Yet people are unironically talking about him having about the same value as one of those many stud WRs. That's absolutely ridiculous, yet it's perfectly correct strategy in these leagues that overemphasize WRs in every possible way.

It's important to remember that, when Lacy was drafted, three NFL teams (Denver, Pittsburgh, and a third anonymous franchise) reportedly were concerned that his fused toe would not impact him in the short term, but would cause issues within 2-3 years and shorten his NFL career. Personally, when I value Lacy, I treat him more like a 25-year-old instead of a 23-year-old, just to try to account for that lurking risk.

With that said, I do agree that PPR isn't a great scoring system for dynasty. PPR was designed to bring WR values in line with RB values in redraft leagues. The problem is that receivers didn't NEED a boost in dynasty- they already had their longer careers bringing their value more in line with RB value in dynasty. Adding PPR on top of that skews the math too much in favor of the receivers.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that.I think it's reasonable to assume most running backs are going to miss a year somewhere in the career, and they'll be dinged up for part of another. In Lacy's case, I can understand projecting two missed seasons. I've said the same in other threads. I don't think that's quite the same as considering him a 25 year old, because he's not likely to miss his final year, just some arbitrary year somewhere along the way. And all running backs are injury risk, so adding a year to everyone's age across the board doesn't really change much when we look at an actual age - 30 - as a horizon for all of them.

The thing is, in leagues that don't massively deemphasize RB value, what that really means is that you need RB depth to compete. If all RBs are injury risks, and RBs are already scarce, that makes for some interesting strategy decisions. On the one hand, you need a deep corps of running backs to deal with the looking injury risk. On the other hand, picking a good receiver could pay off for over a decade. That makes rookie picks a lot more interesting to me.

In these 1 RB leagues, I guess you just pick the best receiver on the baord and hope you get lucky. I guess I can see how that's fun when your league mates haven't caught on yet, but the end game is pretty boring.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Just went down in my 14 team PPR devy league. Lots of unknown value changing hands here.

Team A gives:

Jordy Nelson

Jeremy Hill

Team B gives:

T.J. Yeldon

Cory Clement

Alex Collins

Leonard Fournette

It's gonna take patience and some luck, but I thought that was a TON of potential being given up for a WR who I think is undervalued, but still has a questionable long-term situation. Plus Hill, who I think tops out as an RB2.

You only have to start 1 RB in this league, but still.

 

[LususV]

July 5th, 2013:

Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Ray Rice

July 5th, 2012:

Darren McFadden, Chris Johnson, MJD

July 5th, 2011:

Rashard Mendenhall, Peyton Hillis

... I can go on and on. Of all the positions, RB is the riskiest elite asset to hold, period. I had a dyno startup last year where TRich and Doug Martin went ahead of AJG, Dez, Charles, McCoy (and later on, after TRich started horribly in Indy, he was traded, straight up, for McCoy).

If I have a young, elite RB, I am trying to turn him into an WR or two, every chance I get.

Just because running backs get hurt, doesn't mean that you don't need them. The McCoy, Peterson, Charles and Lynch owners made the playoffs in just about every league I was in last year. The AJ Green, Julio Jones and Dez Bryant owners didn't.

2) The thing is, while there are some truly elite receivers in the league right now - guys like Harrison, Moss and Owens gave way to guys like Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne, who gave way to guys like Calvin, Dez and AJ Green - Keenan Allen isn't in that elite tier. He's in the 11-20 range. Here are some guys from that same range over the past few years:

2013: Larry Fitzgerald, Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, James Jones

2012: Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, Kenny Britt, Greg Little, Justin Blackmon

2011: Kenny Britt, Dwayne Bowe, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin, Stevie Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, Reggie Wayne

Not all of those guys were TOTAL busts, mind you, but neither were the ones you listed. Ray Rice had four straight years of stud RB production and may have two or three more left in him. Chris Johnson six years of 1000+ yard seasons including his 2000 yarder, and may have two or three more left in him. During that time he's had a year and a half of down production, but otherwise been everything he's supposed to. MJD had six years of top RB production. The jury's still out on Richardson, but Martin still holds his elite trade value. Spiller didn't hit the ground running, so he isn't really a comparable to Lacy, who did. He had a stud season in year three, then played hurt last year in his fourth year in the league.

You also ignored guys like Adrian Peterson and LeSean McCoy. But that's because you were looking for busts. So I didn't list some of the true stud talent that came out of those tiers - guys who were undeniable hits at RB or WR. There are instances of both at both positions. Cherry picking one or the other for the benefit of your argument doesn't help anyone.

I was trying to list guys who were considered 1st/early 2nd round startup guys (where I see Lacy ranked). Yes, AP/McCoy were hits (and Charles last year), but when 5 of top 7 or so valued RBs all busted compared to draft position... that's huge. Julio (who would be a redraft 'bust') hasn't lost a lick of trade value year over year. Martin is valued as a 3rd/4th, and TRich slid even more.

Checking some dyno/keeper rankings on the WRs you listed, none were 1st/2nd rounders. Similar ranked WRs:

2011: Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Fitzgerald

2012: Calvin, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson mid 2nd, (Julio Jones mid-late 2nd)

2013: Calvin, Dez, AJG, Marshall, Julio mid 2nd

Now, I definitely wouldn't deal Lacy for Allen straight up (and I'm rather low on Allen as I see 2013 as closer to his ceiling than his floor), but if I have an RB like him I'm aggressively trying to turn him into an elite WR. That's just my dyno philosophy - turn young RBs into proven young WRs, turn unproven young WRs into (multiple) older RBs.

 

[cstu]

10 team 2QB 3WR 2RB 2TE 2flex .5 PPR

A gave up: Montee/Russel

B gave up: Gordon/T-Rich/Lattimore/2.10/2015 2nd/2015 4th

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this one. B is trying to compete and A is kind of in a rebuild but I fail to make sense of why A did this. Am I missing something?

Looks like he'll be rebuilding a bit longer.

 

[cstu]

14 team PPR

J Matthews, M Wheaton

for

Josh Gordon

That is the most I would pay for Gordon right now

I might pay a little more but most Gordon owners I'm seeing are looking at 90 cents on the dollar.Had a guy shopping him and his minimum ask was Lynch, and a 2015 1 & 2. I told him Lynch' ADP higher than Gordon and Lynch was best I could do and he didn't even bother responding.

Tell me about it. For some reason, while the Gordon owners want to trade him, they also expect the other party to take all the risk of a suspension but pay only a slightly discounted value of what he was worth before the rumors of the latest troubles emerged. So a trade for them ends up close to a no lose proposition.

I was one to trade Gordon away here, and I feel all things considered, it's pretty fair for both teams. I was really short on WRs as well.

I will agree with that. My comment was directed to a tangent discussion about Gordon owners in general, rather than the above trade.

Just threw away Matthews in the matter of a week.