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**Official** 2009 Dallas Cowboys Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bankerguy
- Start date
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
AMERICAS TEAM!
Tyrion
Footballguy
Just like America we are kinda tanking at the moment but don't worry we both will bounce back.This team went well below expectations this season but the good news is we have the talent to get back where we want to go. I am not so much interested in what they bring in as what they do internally this offseason. I don't expect to see much for a few weeks while the players heal up. With rookies like Felix Jones, Tashard Choice, Orlando Scandrick, Michael Jenkins and Tell us Bennet we have something to look forward to in the future.With Romo this offseason I don't want to hear so much on how he is working on his mechanics but on how he is working to build chemistry with his TEs and WRs. The good news is that Roy, Bennet, and Witten (and I am sure other guys too) all make their home in the area so it shouldn't be hard to manage.
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Manster
Footballguy
i think the biggest weaknesses right now are O-line, safety, QB. we need depth.but filling positions is the least of this teams' worries. there needs to be a chain of command on this team. it's a bunch of individuals on the Dallas Cowboys right now. bickering on the sidelines is commonplace. and then Wade has of those golly gee, everything is fine, pressers.i wish jerry jones could set aside his ego and do the things that need to be done in this organization, but i dont see it happening. jerry is more about flash than substance.i'm seriously wondering if Romo is gonna be the man. he continues to come up short (along with his teammates) in big games at the end of the season. it's not all his fault, but he's the QB, so he gets a bigger portion of the responsibility.
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simmonjm
Footballguy
Please dont jump back on the Cowboys bandwagon when this team starts off hot. Thanks in advance.That's your problem, son. You like the hot starts, and bury your head in the sand with the cold finishes.Please dont jump back on the Cowboys bandwagon when this team starts off hot. Thanks in advance.
simmonjm
Footballguy
Damn its going to be one long offseason. Anyways unlike most of the media and Cowboys fans I have optimism. The defense under Wade Phillips has consistently improved each year. I believe in 2007 they finished 14th in total defense this year 9th in total defense. Assuming Dallas can get adequate replacements or resign DE, ILB, NT, S positions they should continue to improve. As for PacMan I know alot of fans want him gone because lets face it he made jerry Jones look like an idiot for off field incident and his play in the philly game. To me he is house money. If he makes it through offseason without incident he will improve and its great if he screws up oh well cut him loose. THe kid can play and was the Cowboys best CB at the beginning of the season.
The main concern to me is the offense. Its mind boggling how inept the offense looked in 2008. Who would have ever thought that late in the season the defense would carry this team? I would not be heartbroken if Garrett leaves but at the same time I still think if he is on the staff he can improve. I think its obvious that the league caught up with his offense. Hopefully an offseason of study can improve his playcalling and schemes. At the same time the success of Garrett will be directly tied to Hudson Houck. This guy was one of my favorite additions last year yet he disappointed. In 2007 Romo had all day in the pocket and Wr's got open with ease this year Romo had to dodge a free rushing DE or LB and then look downfield all the while his WR's were being pressed, after he threw the ball he landed on the ground nearly every play. Its amazing he only missed 3 games. Hudson Houck really should be let go but if he isnt I pray that he can improve. The oline has to be a major concern, G not so much (with Holland, Kosier, and L. Davis) but a tackle and back up center are a must. I dont know how much Flo has left in the tank although some would argue his declining play was a result of injury. I would really like a T drafted early and hope that he can play if called upon or at least give Flo some competition.
Special teams just when you thought it couldnt get any worse, they singlehandily lost the Cards game and contributed in pretty much all the losses. Its time for Wade to stop being so loyal and give DeHaven his pink slip he has earned.
All and all I think this whole chemistry angle is overblown. If Dallas starts off 3-0 or even 2-0 next year everything is great at the Valley Ranch and the Cowboys fan base will increase markedly (see Syrus). If they start out slow then all bets are off and the finger pointing will begin.
To all posters comparing Al Davis to Jerry Jones please stop. Jerry Jones had one of the best drafts last year with HIS guys running the draft. Felix Jones, Martellus Bennett, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick the future looks bright. Jerry has assembled arguably the best roster in the league all while expertly managing the cap situation. Hats off to Jerry what a saavy businessman.
The main concern to me is the offense. Its mind boggling how inept the offense looked in 2008. Who would have ever thought that late in the season the defense would carry this team? I would not be heartbroken if Garrett leaves but at the same time I still think if he is on the staff he can improve. I think its obvious that the league caught up with his offense. Hopefully an offseason of study can improve his playcalling and schemes. At the same time the success of Garrett will be directly tied to Hudson Houck. This guy was one of my favorite additions last year yet he disappointed. In 2007 Romo had all day in the pocket and Wr's got open with ease this year Romo had to dodge a free rushing DE or LB and then look downfield all the while his WR's were being pressed, after he threw the ball he landed on the ground nearly every play. Its amazing he only missed 3 games. Hudson Houck really should be let go but if he isnt I pray that he can improve. The oline has to be a major concern, G not so much (with Holland, Kosier, and L. Davis) but a tackle and back up center are a must. I dont know how much Flo has left in the tank although some would argue his declining play was a result of injury. I would really like a T drafted early and hope that he can play if called upon or at least give Flo some competition.
Special teams just when you thought it couldnt get any worse, they singlehandily lost the Cards game and contributed in pretty much all the losses. Its time for Wade to stop being so loyal and give DeHaven his pink slip he has earned.
All and all I think this whole chemistry angle is overblown. If Dallas starts off 3-0 or even 2-0 next year everything is great at the Valley Ranch and the Cowboys fan base will increase markedly (see Syrus). If they start out slow then all bets are off and the finger pointing will begin.
To all posters comparing Al Davis to Jerry Jones please stop. Jerry Jones had one of the best drafts last year with HIS guys running the draft. Felix Jones, Martellus Bennett, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick the future looks bright. Jerry has assembled arguably the best roster in the league all while expertly managing the cap situation. Hats off to Jerry what a saavy businessman.
Avery
Footballguy
Get off Jerry's jock already, kid. Constructing the Titanic and putting a drunken sailor at the steering wheel is not savy, it's stupidity.
bentley
Footballguy
I think you hit the nail on the head for sure in the first post. It's a systemic problem that comes from the top. And it's something that apparently isn't going to change. Jerry's talk over the last few days has me worried that he's completely given in to the "star" mentality and won't do what's best for the team.
As far as Wade "changing" and it having a material effect, I think this quote from Bradie James says it best:
As far as players go, Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and Zach Thomas (who will probably leave of his own volition) should be done with. If Kosier can't be counted on, Dallas needs to sign another guard, because those guys that filled in this year couldn't get it done. Maybe a new offensive line coach can motivate Flozell. Beats me. Serious help is also needed at safety. Keith David is a great special teams guy, but doesn't have any business playing significant time in the secondary. I never thought I'd beg for the return of Roy Williams (Oklahoma), but maybe it's a start.
All that said, I still think there's enough talent there with some changes that Dallas can be a contender. Dallas will benefit from Roy Williams (Texas) having a full training camp and the return of Matt McBriar, Felix Jones and a hopefully healthy 2009 from Terrence Newman and Kyle Kosier.
As far as Wade "changing" and it having a material effect, I think this quote from Bradie James says it best:
I just don't see how that works out for the team as a whole. Jean-Jacques Taylor made that point more eloquently than I can.I cannot believe that either Hudson Houck or Bruce DeHaven will be back. Those guys should have been fired as soon as the final whistle blew against Philly. I think Wade Wilson's also probably an expendable part. Maybe he hasn't contributed to Romo being a turnover machine, but there's only one way to find out.
As far as players go, Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and Zach Thomas (who will probably leave of his own volition) should be done with. If Kosier can't be counted on, Dallas needs to sign another guard, because those guys that filled in this year couldn't get it done. Maybe a new offensive line coach can motivate Flozell. Beats me. Serious help is also needed at safety. Keith David is a great special teams guy, but doesn't have any business playing significant time in the secondary. I never thought I'd beg for the return of Roy Williams (Oklahoma), but maybe it's a start.
All that said, I still think there's enough talent there with some changes that Dallas can be a contender. Dallas will benefit from Roy Williams (Texas) having a full training camp and the return of Matt McBriar, Felix Jones and a hopefully healthy 2009 from Terrence Newman and Kyle Kosier.
During his post-game interview he gave every indication he would. He said he was a MLB, and the team already had a great one in Bradie James....that playing for Dallas always would be special to him even though he had to switch positions, but he had to be true to himself and return back to the position he was dominant at for so many years and that he would explore his options.
CowboyFan
Footballguy
Of all the problems on the team, Romo isn't one of them. He wasn't the same after getting pounded in the Giants game. I'm sure he won't admit it, but I can't imagine a hurting back wouldn't affect his throws. The o-line did him no favors. Romo trying to make things happen, while he was running for his life, lead to too many mistakes. The deficiencies in Romo's game can be corrected. The deficiencies with the rest of the team are going to take a lot more work.Manster said:
Mustang Man
Footballguy
Yeah well hey everything does not always go your way. Just chill and see what goes down it is not like any of us can do anything about it. One thing is for sure fix the offensive line that is the main problem. Plus get that high school punter that filled in for Matt and never let him see the light of day. He cost us a lot this year he had a lot to do with the Pitt game and the Raven game. That was a real problem down the stretch.
Just horrible to see Dallas not make the playoffs. Guess what there will only be ONE team happy once the year is done and if you hear other teams fans say other wise they are weak and have standards that are laughable. In the NFL now days you have to do it when you get to the dance cause it is not promised to you next year. Very small margin of being the winner and loser. Round here we do not take moral victory only Super Bowls. Not our year, suck it up and come back next year. THAT'S A REAL FAN! To me this year feels the same as last(13-3) we did not get it done.
Just horrible to see Dallas not make the playoffs. Guess what there will only be ONE team happy once the year is done and if you hear other teams fans say other wise they are weak and have standards that are laughable. In the NFL now days you have to do it when you get to the dance cause it is not promised to you next year. Very small margin of being the winner and loser. Round here we do not take moral victory only Super Bowls. Not our year, suck it up and come back next year. THAT'S A REAL FAN! To me this year feels the same as last(13-3) we did not get it done.
simmonjm
Footballguy
Zach Thomas only played on 1st and 2nd downs him leaving has little effect on the defense. To your point earlier Syrus about Wade Phillips and Garrett, I can admit there not perfect and at times dont seem competent. But to just give up doesnt seem right to me. Hell look at how long it took Cowher to win a superbowl or even look at Tom Coughlin 2 years ago everyone thought he was done as a coach and would never win a superbowl. You just never know. I for one am happy is on board because if Wade was replaced who would run the defense? Ted Cotrell and his soft zone defense?
Avery
Footballguy
Kinda ironic that you mention two notorious disciplinarian coaches when that is one of Phillips' most glaring weaknesses.
Ridgelake
Footballguy
Just an FYI, DeHaven was gone 2 years ago. Bruce Read has been the ST coach the last 2 seasons. And yes, he deserves replacing more than any other coach on this team. I was bummed last year when Sparano didnt take him with him to Miami. I was hoping. But nope.
bentley
Footballguy
Dammit. I was on a roll. I also called the SWT Bobcats the Wildcats yesterday even though I went to school there.That guy that coaches the special teams sucks.
MaddHatter
Footballguy
How about Terrance Newman calling out an anonymous player that is a "coward" and ruined the teams season, or something of that nature.
Saw it on the ticker on ESPN.
Just like Dallas, this message will self-destruct in 3, 2, ...
Saw it on the ticker on ESPN.
Just like Dallas, this message will self-destruct in 3, 2, ...
bentley
Footballguy
I agree with Newman on that one. How can anyone think that was a good idea?
Bankerguy
Footballguy
Developing........
Mort: Don't count out Shanahan to Cowboys
Recently on SportsCenter, Mortensen cited how Jerry and Shanahan are close and have worked against each other the past two training camps; how Shanahan coveted Romo and offered more money when he was an UDFA; and how the Broncos wanted T.O. when he was a free agent. Mort followed it up by saying that while we have to take Jerry at his word, a move like this has to at least get the attention of Jerry.
Mort: Don't count out Shanahan to Cowboys
Recently on SportsCenter, Mortensen cited how Jerry and Shanahan are close and have worked against each other the past two training camps; how Shanahan coveted Romo and offered more money when he was an UDFA; and how the Broncos wanted T.O. when he was a free agent. Mort followed it up by saying that while we have to take Jerry at his word, a move like this has to at least get the attention of Jerry.
Phurfur
Footballguy
When are people going to give up on this, it is really getting old. They have proven they don't have the talent and not admitting it doesn't help the them. This team is not good enough to make the playoffs, they just proved it. Big changes are needed!
Bankerguy
Footballguy
So, then.....who is a talent on this team? Enlighten us.
Phurfur
Footballguy
No they don't! Get off this wagon now! This is what was said last year too, do you want to repeat the past.Ware and Witten are the only Exceptional talents on this team, everyone else if fair game. These players need a fear of losing their jobs, but I doubt they care.
The sad fact is that the Cowboy Fans are more passionate and concerned about the franchise than the players are. These players are not "Dallas Cowboys", they don't care.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
Fail. Please stop speaking for all of Cowboys fans and their players. Especially since you aren't even a fan yourself.
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Phurfur
Footballguy
It is hard for me to think that Atlanta fans will be disappointed no matter what the outcome in the playsoffs will be. It is about taking a step forward, not backward like Dallas just did.
Routilla
Footballguy
Is football new to you?
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Seriously? How can you say with a straight face that they are not a talented team?First, let's look at their WR's, not many teams have a 1-2 combo like Owens and Williams. Granted, they haven't played well together (see my chemistry comment) but talent wise, they are right up there. Add in Crayton and then Witten grabbing passes and you have a very talented receiving group.Phurfur said:
Next, look at Romo. You can call the guy a choker all you want but you can't deny his talent. His is one year from throwing 36 TDs and threw 26 TDs this past year in a rough year. The guy can play. He's a top 10 QB for sure.....top 5 in some people's eyes.
Now, add in the good defense that fell apart at times (see chemistry and discipline) and you have a very talented team.
Ridgelake
Footballguy
On the surface, this may seem really intriguing. The one big (literally and figuratively) problem that I see is the o-line. Shanny likes the 290 lb quick olinemen to run his zone blocking scheme. Outside of Kosier, all of Dallas' linemen are 325lb+ maulers. All locked up for 2 to 5 more years. Either Shanny would have to change his schemes to fit the linemen, or use the linemen in ways they aren't best suited. I do think the skill position players would be great for Shanny's schemes, especially Romo.Then there's the defense. Dallas has 3-4 personnel. Shanny, as far as I know, has always run a 4-3. He'd have to bring in a coordinator to run the D. How's his relationship with Dom Capers?Complicating things further is Shanny made the personnel decisions in Denver. How does that get worked out? Shanny is used to getting totally different types of players for the oline and the defensive front 7. Making these types of changes take years to implement. So either Dallas totally blows up what they have (highly unlikely), or Shanny has to learn/adapt new systems. That would be a tough thing to do.Bankerguy said:
Bankerguy
Footballguy
You are welcome to your opinion. We'd just appreciate that you speak for yourself and not for me or the Cowboys players. I'll go out on a limb and say don't know what are players are thinking are feeling. My apologies in advance, if you do have some fabulous source for your assertion. However, I'm pretty confident based on much of your anti Cowboy posts that you don't. We're happy to hear your thoughts on our players if you are willing to be specific instead of throwing out generalities and just trying to
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culdeus
Footballguy
The thing most people don't see is that Roy and TO are the same player. They run straight for 20 yards and then turn in one actute angle and keep running. Neither is comfortable dragging or running over the middle. The only other way they get the ball is on screens which romo does a crappy job of hiding.
If you have two guys that are just runners and not route runners and you fail to protect the QB then they fail. Miserably. Garrett's main failing is that he would not force TO and Roy to adjust routes when a blitz is detected. He's simply scared of them. Roy and TO want to be sent deep every.single.play.period. This is what is so "predictable" about the offense. They don't even know the hot routes at times it would seem.
I think the failure of the OL this year allowed TO to quit and when Roy got here that attitude plus his foot injury spread to him. Having the hungry guys like crayton and hurd/austin healthy and willing to take orders made a huge difference.
Two excuses I don't buy is that Proctor was the root cause of this. Bull####. The total inability of the offensive staff to adapt the OL to pickup blitzes or change blocking schemes up front is what caused this. Having a LT that's deaf in his right ear doesn't help either. The tackle situation on this team is a total abortion and if you don't cut TO and let Roy be the #2 and don't solve the OL situation to the point where the two WRs can just run long routes every time you are toast.
The second excuse is that romo somehow doesn't have it. I don't buy that either. He's best throwing dumpoffs to Witten because witten does the things that his WRs won't do which is create routes and break off when needed as Romo scrambles. It's truly Jerry's fault that we ended up with identical WRs on each side, not romo's. There are at least 20 teams that will take Romo 1 for 1 right now for their QB if offered. Maybe more.
I really think the only thing that chances is PacMan is let go. Might find another tackle in FA, but who knows. I'm not really all that worked up about the schedule as some people are. Seems about average to me. There's a reasonable chance with the new stadium something clicks, but really I don't see any chance this thing takes a big step forward.
If you have two guys that are just runners and not route runners and you fail to protect the QB then they fail. Miserably. Garrett's main failing is that he would not force TO and Roy to adjust routes when a blitz is detected. He's simply scared of them. Roy and TO want to be sent deep every.single.play.period. This is what is so "predictable" about the offense. They don't even know the hot routes at times it would seem.
I think the failure of the OL this year allowed TO to quit and when Roy got here that attitude plus his foot injury spread to him. Having the hungry guys like crayton and hurd/austin healthy and willing to take orders made a huge difference.
Two excuses I don't buy is that Proctor was the root cause of this. Bull####. The total inability of the offensive staff to adapt the OL to pickup blitzes or change blocking schemes up front is what caused this. Having a LT that's deaf in his right ear doesn't help either. The tackle situation on this team is a total abortion and if you don't cut TO and let Roy be the #2 and don't solve the OL situation to the point where the two WRs can just run long routes every time you are toast.
The second excuse is that romo somehow doesn't have it. I don't buy that either. He's best throwing dumpoffs to Witten because witten does the things that his WRs won't do which is create routes and break off when needed as Romo scrambles. It's truly Jerry's fault that we ended up with identical WRs on each side, not romo's. There are at least 20 teams that will take Romo 1 for 1 right now for their QB if offered. Maybe more.
I really think the only thing that chances is PacMan is let go. Might find another tackle in FA, but who knows. I'm not really all that worked up about the schedule as some people are. Seems about average to me. There's a reasonable chance with the new stadium something clicks, but really I don't see any chance this thing takes a big step forward.
Phurfur
Footballguy
Pipe Dreams!
Phurfur
Footballguy
Fair enough, I didn't realize I was coming off as a Cowboy Fan.My main point is that Cowboy Fans are saying the same things this year as last year. NOBODY is holding the players accountable and the outcome will be the same. An exceptionally talented player that has no heart becomes a very average player.You are welcome to your opinion. We'd just appreciate that you speak for yourself and not for me or the Cowboys players. I'll go out on a limb and say don't know what are players are thinking are feeling. My apologies in advance, if you do have some fabulous source for your assertion. However, I'm pretty confident based on much of your anti Cowboy posts that you don't. We're happy to hear your thoughts on our players if you are willing to be specific instead of throwing out generalities and just trying to.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
I for one would welcome the 4-3 (If Wade was let go). I think with a few changes this team could transition over relatively quickly. As far as the Offense....a sign of a good coach is working with what you have. I think Shanny could adjust and over time work towards the Zone blocking with smaller lineman. He would be a breath of fresh air. Especially because he would want full control and Jerry knows he'd have to give it up.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
You make some fair points on general themes. It's no secret that something is missing but some your thoughts seem incomplete and lacking real in depth analysis to this point. Cowboy fans clearly ge this. To say we aren't talented is very silly. Maybe you have done some alaysis, but your posts don't show that as of yet. I'll put it back to you and ask a few questions.1) What players need to go?Fair enough, I didn't realize I was coming off as a Cowboy Fan.My main point is that Cowboy Fans are saying the same things this year as last year. NOBODY is holding the players accountable and the outcome will be the same. An exceptionally talented player that has no heart becomes a very average player.You are welcome to your opinion. We'd just appreciate that you speak for yourself and not for me or the Cowboys players. I'll go out on a limb and say don't know what are players are thinking are feeling. My apologies in advance, if you do have some fabulous source for your assertion. However, I'm pretty confident based on much of your anti Cowboy posts that you don't. We're happy to hear your thoughts on our players if you are willing to be specific instead of throwing out generalities and just trying to.
2) Who do you build around?
3) Give us your thoughts on the offense and what ails it?
4) Should this team stay with the 3-4, or go 4-3? What coaches go/stay?
I wonder if Shanny was hired if Wade would take the demotion and run the defense. Then they could keep the 3-4 and would probably be a dominant team on both sides of the ball in a short amount of time ideally. I believe that Shanny and Wade have worked together in the past as well, no? Wade seems like the kind of guy who would do something like that, I dont know if its realistic or not. But as a Cowboys fan, I'd love to see that happen.
Newman needs surgery: Terence Newman will have arthroscopic surgery on his right ankle after suffering an injury in the second half against the Eagles.
For Newman, the injury was a fitting end to this season. He battled a groin injury during training camp, tried to play through the pain and then ultimately missed five games after midseason sports hernia surgery.
Same old Newman. So now we'll hear all off-season how great his ankle rehab is going. He'll sit out mini-camps because he'll be rehabbing it. Then he'll participate in two whole days of training camp before he re-injures the same ankle and misses the rest of training camp and all of the pre-season games. He'll return in Week Two and look rusty for three weeks before delivering a stellar game in Week Five and getting our hopes up. Then in Week Seven he tweaks his ankle again causing him to sit in and out of the lineup the rest of the season and wreaking havoc on the chemistry of the secondary. Same old Newman.
For Newman, the injury was a fitting end to this season. He battled a groin injury during training camp, tried to play through the pain and then ultimately missed five games after midseason sports hernia surgery.
Same old Newman. So now we'll hear all off-season how great his ankle rehab is going. He'll sit out mini-camps because he'll be rehabbing it. Then he'll participate in two whole days of training camp before he re-injures the same ankle and misses the rest of training camp and all of the pre-season games. He'll return in Week Two and look rusty for three weeks before delivering a stellar game in Week Five and getting our hopes up. Then in Week Seven he tweaks his ankle again causing him to sit in and out of the lineup the rest of the season and wreaking havoc on the chemistry of the secondary. Same old Newman.
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Statcruncher
Footballguy
I heard on the Ticket sports radio station this morning an interesting stat about the Cowboys offense. 10 out of 11 of the offensive players in the 3WR 1RB formation are signed through at least 2011 with the 11th (lineman I think?) being signed throught 2010. If the coaching staff is going to stay and they've locked down the starting offense that doesn't leave much room for "change". It will be interesting to see what they do in the off-season. Personally I think they have the talent, they just need a coach who will give them a kick in the #### and hold them accountable.
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Bankerguy
Footballguy
Ditto.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
coaches never take a demotion and stay on the team except for Dave Campo
Bankerguy
Footballguy
I agree, I certainly don't expect it to happen. It would be nice though. Wade is a fine DC, just not head coach material imo.
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
Why would a team want Mike Shanahan as their coach/gm when he's shown that he failed at that particular job If he wants to be the coach that's fine. Anything else is too much power for one man. Especially when that one main didn't use that power properly.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
Shanny > Jerry
Ridgelake
Footballguy
Thats correct. Romo, Barber, Witten, Davis and maybe Gurode and Crayton all have 5+ years left on their deal. Williams, Columbo, Felix all have 4+.Bennett has 3 more I think.Flozell, TO, and Choice have 2 more years.Kosier, I think has 1 more year. Deon Anderson has 1 more year, then becomes an RFA. Miles Austin is an RFA. He will almost certainly be tendered, either at 1st round or 2nd round level. So if I'm not mistaken, the entire starting offense is signed through next season. Only Kosier and Anderson are not signed for 2010.
