I actually think Daniels is worth more than the veteran minimum. I think the vet minimum is $800k+ for a person with many years, so it is still a good amount of money. But he was the starting DE going into the preseason last year. And the Redskin brass thought they had to blow a 2nd and 5th round pick when he got injured. He looks like he will be the starter if he signs. So the only question is if another team will offer more than the minimum, setting his value.
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****OFFICIAL 2009 Off Season Washington Redskins Thread**** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChrisCooleyFan
- Start date
cstu
Footballguy
They are trying to trade for Cutler though. At most I could see Landry and Campbell, but the Broncos seem intent on trading Scheffler as as well. Making Cooley part of the package is way too much.Cooley, Landry + Campbell. I almost had a heart attack until I saw that the piece was marked with a little "satire" tag, and then I was struck, as I'm sure you were, by the hilarity of Paul Roberts' masterful little gag piece. Man, what a comedian. That was GOLD, Paul! Another bad FO move those silly Redskins! HAW HAW HAW! Great stuff!TankRizzo said:
buster c
Footballguy
and you BELIEVE this.From Jason Reid:
Just got a text from VinnyCerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, who wrote that there's no truth to an Internet report that the team is actively pursuing a trade for disgruntled Denver quarterback Jay Cutler.
In addition, Coach Jim Zorn has told many in the organization he is excited about Jason Campbell's potential growth in the second season of Zorn's spread offense
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
southeastjerome
Footballguy
God, I love Cooley's blog. I love how he referred to Cutler as "Angry Jay Cutler".
buster c
Footballguy
this is not about me believing fake rumors, fatman.Yes.You, on the other hand, fed right into the (completely fake) rumor about Campbell, Cooley, and Landry being traded and started explaining why it was a good trade.
Link
flat out told the world that the Skins were not in trade talks with Miami about Jason Taylor when the fact is that they were. even admitted to the deception! So why would you believe any of his denials?
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Bizkiteer
Footballguy
He's not saying he does, he's just pointing out that you can't take the FO's/Vinny's word as the truth. He's basically saying that he takes absolutely no stock in what is being put out by the organization.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Franchise QB's are much harder to find than Safeties. That is why QB's have a much higher ADP than Safeties in the history of NFL drafts. Not saying Landry is not good, but he's much easier to replace. Thus, he shouldn't be untouchable. Same thing for Cooley, as TE's are easier to replace too...especially if a team thinks highly of another player on their roster at the same position.Now that being said, do I want it to happen or think it will...no. Can I understand if the franchise did it...YES.
fatness
Footballguy
And that keeps the discussion stuck on "oh gee the front office sucks". If we're going to post rumors then let's talk about the rumors, you know?I'll go back to what I said before. I think the rumor makes no sense since this is the trade result:Campbell out, Cutler inCooley out, Scheffler inLandry out, 3rd round draft pick inI don't think that's a trade that will happen. Cutler's an upgrade over Campbell but by how much? Put Campbell behind and effective O-line on a successful passing offense last year, put Cutler behind an old, injured, failing o-line on a limited offense last year, and how much of a difference is there is their performances? Not nearly enough to justify basically throwing away a top young safety (in a thin secondary) for a 3rd round pick, and then downgrading from Cooley to Scheffler to boot.But the front office sucks so I guess that's the story.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Ok, the way you point it out...any deal would not make sense. Yes, by looking at a lineup for the year the team has not made any significant upgrade. The problem is that Cutler is a legit QB that appears to be that Franchise QB, he's not Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Tim Couch. Thus, the weight in the deal comes down to the years after. Cooley is great, but if the organization likes Fred Davis as much as they do...it makes him become touchable in a deal. Scheff provides depth and is best friends w/ Cutler, being rep'd by the same agent. Thus, makes it easier to include. As for Landry, he is nice to have for any team, but he can be replaced like basically any Safety can. It's not ideal, but it comes down to a franchise QB is much harder to find than anything else and if you have an opportunity to get one...do it.Nobody said the FO sucks, at least I didn't. Reality is that none of the FO's in the NFL can be taken for their every word because just as in mangement, you don't lay all your cards out on the table.Again, I'm not saying I want to happen or think it will, but if something along the lines does happen...I can at least understand the reasoning.
buster c
Footballguy
fatty likes to use extremes to make a point. the story is not that the FO sucks. that's a given within each story. I used to think his fatness was shrewder than what I've seen from him of late, but he's still a smart guy. just a little over-sensitive.the deal (the story) as I first saw it was JC & Cooley to Cleveland, Quinn from Cleveland to Denver, and Cutler to DC. I like this deal because it's a huge QB upgrade and we could be close to even on the TE "swap" (with Davis seeing the field now). I would not make the deal as described above with Landry added in. Maybe if STaylor was still with us, but not now.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Count me as one who firmly believes that the Redskins Front Office DOES suck from a talent evaluation vs cost to acquire standpoint, and they frequently DO lay all their cards on the table, and then some, when involved in the acquisition of Players they desire to obtain. Owners, GM's, Agents and Players (including their own, who know they can can successfully lobby for the Team to acquire) know this. If they were competent in their decision making, I'd have no problem with them doing this - it's just that with embarrassing frequency, the decisions they make about the Players they are willing to go to any length to acquire aren't the wisest of choices, either in the Players themselves or the means by which to acquire them, and it's no secret to their partners in negotiations at all levels.
The Jason Taylor trade is only one example of this, but it illustrate the premise perfectly. Daniels goes down, and rather than research their options to replace him with a 'Daniels-type' Player, who might fit into the Defensive Scheme, and what it supports, they acquire an Andre Carter-type, who the rest of the Defense can't support to do the things that are keys to getting the most out of his type of game-and ask him to play out of position to boot, and in a position where he's taking on more blocking than both he, and his game, can handle.
It's going to be quite embarrassing if/when another Organization (Patriots) signs Jason Taylor, and puts him in a position to make plays this year...and he does.
The Jason Taylor trade is only one example of this, but it illustrate the premise perfectly. Daniels goes down, and rather than research their options to replace him with a 'Daniels-type' Player, who might fit into the Defensive Scheme, and what it supports, they acquire an Andre Carter-type, who the rest of the Defense can't support to do the things that are keys to getting the most out of his type of game-and ask him to play out of position to boot, and in a position where he's taking on more blocking than both he, and his game, can handle.
It's going to be quite embarrassing if/when another Organization (Patriots) signs Jason Taylor, and puts him in a position to make plays this year...and he does.
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Sounds like Crowell has signed with TB and will probably be their SLB. It will be interesting to hear what kind of money he got.Judging by the remaining available OLB names in FA, it will probably be Washington and Blades at SLB again this year.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Already reported to be a $3 mill, but could earn $4.6 mill with incentives. Granted it is a one year deal, but that is more than the 'Skins could afford.
ChrisCooleyFan
Footballguy
JayCutlerFan just doesnt't fit me, if Cooley is involved.
fatness
Footballguy
There was no "deal" to see. It was a fake rumor. I used to think you were shrewder than what I've seen from you of late, but you're still a smart guy. just a little off the deep end chasing any article that might somehow confirm your only point: you don't like the front office.Look at the other talk around the league: Don Banks, SI.combuster c said:
Damn near every other team is "trying to trade for Cutler". But if your look in their offseason threads here the fans of those teams are smart enough not to chase stupid rumors.
fatness
Footballguy
On the other hand, New England is chasing Jason Taylor because they've been failing to land Peppers. They may be after him more out of need than out of thinking he'll be a difference-maker. I guess we'll see.I imagine Belichick will love Taylor skipping practices to be on dance shows.nittanylion said:
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Redskins will go defense in the draft
Basically the article says there will be a run on offensive linemen in the first round, and that once the best ones are off the board the Redskins will choose a defensive player instead of one of the "next best" offensive tackles.
Basically the article says there will be a run on offensive linemen in the first round, and that once the best ones are off the board the Redskins will choose a defensive player instead of one of the "next best" offensive tackles.
Sebowski
Footballguy
You may be right, but I was thinking the same thing when the Bears signed Archuleta. I think Taylor is done. There is a chance he has a good year, but very little chance of him having an 8mil a year type of year. Losing that second round pick will be hard for me to forget though. I still hate thinking of losing a 3rd for Brunell, and then having to trade away a future 2nd to get back into the third to take Cooley. Essentially giving away a 2nd for Brunell when he was getting cut anyway (and when a 2nd could have gotten us Brees that year).nittanylion said:
I think there is a run on OT every year in the draft. And DL too. Teams put a premium on these positions since they are so important. I believe the Redskins have cronically undervalued OL and DL relative to other teams. That is why the have drafted so few of them over the years. If the Redskins continue take the best player available and do not adjuct how they value players, the Redskins will probably end up with another safety or cornerback in round 1.
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buster c
Footballguy
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/D...r-41399007.html
Do Skins want Cutler?
By John Keim
Examiner Staff Writer 3/18/09
The Redskins have serious interest in Denver quarterback Jay Cutler, an NFL source said Tuesday, and have entered talks about a possible three-way deal to acquire him.
Two NFL sources confirmed the possibility of a three-way trade, with Kansas City being mentioned by one source as a possibility.
The Redskins, through a team spokesman, denied interest in Cutler. However, a league source was adamant that Washington has shown interest.
“They’re trying to do something,” one NFL source said of the Redskins.
“Whether or not it materializes is another matter, but [Redskins owner Dan Snyder] is on this hard. They don’t trust Jason Campbell.”
Cutler is involved in a dispute with Denver after the Broncos had discussions about trading him to New England for quarterback Matt Cassel.
First-year Broncos coach Josh McDaniels met with Culter this past weekend. Afterward, Cutler said he could not trust McDaniels and wanted to be traded.
Denver has said they don’t want to trade Cutler for draft picks, meaning the Redskins or the third team would have to surrender at least one top player. The Redskins could also end up with Denver tight end Tony Scheffler, who is represented by the same agent as Culter — Bus Cook.
Fueling the speculation is the close relationship between former Denver coach Mike Shanahan and Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerrato. Shanahan, who traded several times with Cerrato while with Denver, could provide the endorsement needed for Cutler.
Also, after the season Cerrato gave Campbell a tepid endorsement as Washington’s quarterback of the future. Campbell is entering the last year of his contract and the Redskins have not had discussions about extending his deal.
Redskins coach Jim Zorn has praised Campbell publicly this offseason.
The strong-armed Cutler, 25, made the Pro Bowl this past season after throwing 25 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. In three seasons he’s tossed 54 touchdowns and 37 interceptions. In 16 games this past season, Campbell threw 13 touchdowns and six interceptions.
Cutler signed a six-year, $48-million contract in 2006. Campbell has a base salary of $2.5 million this season with a cap number of $7.5 million.
Examiner columnist Rick Snider contributed to this report
FAKE RUMOR FATTY???
I say that this story has legs and that there is a 50% chance that a trade goes down. I've been saying on these boards for a year now that the Skins "don't trust Jason Campbell" and I got this info from a Skins "insider"
you say the story is BS - a 0% chance of happening.
If it goes down, you should eat your hat live on the internet.
Do Skins want Cutler?
By John Keim
Examiner Staff Writer 3/18/09
The Redskins have serious interest in Denver quarterback Jay Cutler, an NFL source said Tuesday, and have entered talks about a possible three-way deal to acquire him.
Two NFL sources confirmed the possibility of a three-way trade, with Kansas City being mentioned by one source as a possibility.
The Redskins, through a team spokesman, denied interest in Cutler. However, a league source was adamant that Washington has shown interest.
“They’re trying to do something,” one NFL source said of the Redskins.
“Whether or not it materializes is another matter, but [Redskins owner Dan Snyder] is on this hard. They don’t trust Jason Campbell.”
Cutler is involved in a dispute with Denver after the Broncos had discussions about trading him to New England for quarterback Matt Cassel.
First-year Broncos coach Josh McDaniels met with Culter this past weekend. Afterward, Cutler said he could not trust McDaniels and wanted to be traded.
Denver has said they don’t want to trade Cutler for draft picks, meaning the Redskins or the third team would have to surrender at least one top player. The Redskins could also end up with Denver tight end Tony Scheffler, who is represented by the same agent as Culter — Bus Cook.
Fueling the speculation is the close relationship between former Denver coach Mike Shanahan and Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerrato. Shanahan, who traded several times with Cerrato while with Denver, could provide the endorsement needed for Cutler.
Also, after the season Cerrato gave Campbell a tepid endorsement as Washington’s quarterback of the future. Campbell is entering the last year of his contract and the Redskins have not had discussions about extending his deal.
Redskins coach Jim Zorn has praised Campbell publicly this offseason.
The strong-armed Cutler, 25, made the Pro Bowl this past season after throwing 25 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. In three seasons he’s tossed 54 touchdowns and 37 interceptions. In 16 games this past season, Campbell threw 13 touchdowns and six interceptions.
Cutler signed a six-year, $48-million contract in 2006. Campbell has a base salary of $2.5 million this season with a cap number of $7.5 million.
Examiner columnist Rick Snider contributed to this report
FAKE RUMOR FATTY???
I say that this story has legs and that there is a 50% chance that a trade goes down. I've been saying on these boards for a year now that the Skins "don't trust Jason Campbell" and I got this info from a Skins "insider"
you say the story is BS - a 0% chance of happening.
If it goes down, you should eat your hat live on the internet.
fatness
Footballguy
Buster, old buddy, old pal ----- this will come as quite a shock to you.
That is the same article that was posted on Tuesday. It is not anything new. The link to it appears in several different threads here at FBG. If you look at the comments below the article they are dated March 17. That was Tuesday. Today is Friday.
This is not a new article. It's 4 days old, and there has been nothing anywhere else confirming this rumor.
Let's review the reports of the Redskins wanting to trade for Cutler. There have only been 2; everything else is just repeating them or gossip based on them:
1. bleacherreport.com wrote an article saying the 3-way trade would happen by 5 pm Monday. The article was later that day labeled "satire".
2. DCExaminer wrote that article saying that 2 (which they then lowered to 1) "NFL source" said the Redskins were interested. This article also admits it is just speculation:
Meanwhile bleacherreport.com has retracted: Link
That is the same article that was posted on Tuesday. It is not anything new. The link to it appears in several different threads here at FBG. If you look at the comments below the article they are dated March 17. That was Tuesday. Today is Friday.
This is not a new article. It's 4 days old, and there has been nothing anywhere else confirming this rumor.
Let's review the reports of the Redskins wanting to trade for Cutler. There have only been 2; everything else is just repeating them or gossip based on them:
1. bleacherreport.com wrote an article saying the 3-way trade would happen by 5 pm Monday. The article was later that day labeled "satire".
2. DCExaminer wrote that article saying that 2 (which they then lowered to 1) "NFL source" said the Redskins were interested. This article also admits it is just speculation:
That's it. A fake rumor, and some speculation.
Meanwhile bleacherreport.com has retracted: Link
Buster, old buddy, old pal. There's nothing to this. There never was.
T Bell
Footballguy
Their problems seem to arise out of fixation on individucal players, and overpayment for them whether via contracts or trades (if not both). This is further fed by either impatience or lack of understanding about how to build a complete roster through the draft and develop young, non-elite players, which causes them to too readily trade away draft picks. It becomes a vicious cycle.Despite all the criticisms about last year's draft class, I did feel that the approach they took, with 10 draft picks, was a refreshing change from all of this and I hoped it boded well for the future. That only lasted until July when they hastily traded away two 2009 draft picks to get Taylor, who probably was going to be released by the Dolphins anyway. Here we are back again facing the same problems once again, with few draft picks to use to address the numerous holes in both the starting lineup and the depth that we're facing both this season and beyond.
T Bell
Footballguy
T Bell
Footballguy
Ah, GB the Draft Rumor Mill. During the two months preceding any NFL draft, anything in an article about any team following the words "will take" is complete BS. It may end up being correct but it's not because of any special insight that the author had at the time.
buster c
Footballguy
no shock to me, I posted in the thread that had the Examiner article (and btw - tuesday to thursday is 2, not 4 days). I'll give the Cutler story a rest for now by simply saying that where there's smoke, there's fire. The Examiner article's sources do not appear to be anything less than the typical "unnamed sources" that are part & parcel with most any story that precedes a trade:
Two NFL sources confirmed the possibility of a three-way trade, with Kansas City being mentioned by one source as a possibility.
The Redskins, through a team spokesman, denied interest in Cutler. However, a league source was adamant that Washington has shown interest.
“They’re trying to do something,” one NFL source said of the Redskins.
“Whether or not it materializes is another matter, but [Redskins owner Dan Snyder] is on this hard. They don’t trust Jason Campbell.”
Londo
Footballguy
I wish this weren't so true...
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
Ah, GB the Draft Rumor Mill. During the two months preceding any NFL draft, anything in an article about any team following the words "will take" is complete BS. It may end up being correct but it's not because of any special insight that the author had at the time.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
That is actually very entertaining to say the least, problem is that some of it hits alittle too close to home.
buster c
Footballguy
http://www.northernvirginiamag.com/enterta...09/03/19/czabe/
a little off-topic, but if you like the Czabe, you'll like this
a little off-topic, but if you like the Czabe, you'll like this
TankRizzo
Footballguy
It's funny cuz it's true!!! [/homer]That is actually very entertaining to say the least, problem is that some of it hits alittle too close to home.
fatness
Footballguy
Yeah, it's too close to true. Our owner is just an ### clown. Anyone in this forum would do a better job running the Skins because each one of us would hire someone qualified to do it. But it's still funny.That is actually very entertaining to say the least, problem is that some of it hits alittle too close to home.
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fatness
Footballguy
That's a good article. He's quite a hardworking guy.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
I would love to have Cutler, but I would hate to give up what it would take to get him. The rumors involving Sheffler are especially annoying as TE is one of the only positions that we might have some depth on if Davis is what he was drafted to be. Also because Cooley's new deal makes him untradable from a cap perspective this year. I really doubt something happens here.
The draft just can't get here soon enough.
The draft just can't get here soon enough.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
IIRC, I don't think it's unusual for teams with a pick as high as the 'Skins pick to meet with just about all the players expected to go before them, if not most of the 1st round talent. It's just due diligence. Personally, I wouldn't read a whole lot into this.
This is true for a couple of reasons, imo. First of all, no team wants to narrow its list so much that other teams will be able to predict who they may take. Also, teams interview, and show due diligence, on players that should go before or after their picks in case they trade up or down. It would be foolish not to do homework on all players that may come into play with or without a trade.IIRC, I don't think it's unusual for teams with a pick as high as the 'Skins pick to meet with just about all the players expected to go before them, if not most of the 1st round talent. It's just due diligence. Personally, I wouldn't read a whole lot into this.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
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