****OFFICIAL 2009 Off Season Washington Redskins Thread**** (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

Dockery wasn't supposed to be a free agent

Buffalo and Detroit had agreed to a trade Thursday with Detroit willing to pick up the rest of Dockery's 7-year, $49 million contract and to guarantee the 2009 and 2010 portions of that deal. However, the Bills failed to file the necessary paperwork with the NFL Management Council by the 4 p.m. dealine, according to a league source, and, rather than pay Dockery $4.5 million for this year, the Bills allowed him to become a free agent.

The Lions were still willing to pick up the remainder of the deal with the two guaranteed years and Dockery, who spent today in Detroit, was close to accepting their deal. However, tonight he decided to take the Skins' deal, which will pay im $3.5 million less over the duraton of the deal.

That's 2 good players in 2 years (Hall and Dockery) who the Redskins pounced on when other teams were dumb enough to release them. 2 starters, no less. That's very good work by the Skins (I feel awkward saying that).

 

[fatness]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

 

[Ripleys]

 

[fatness]

Transcript of Haynesworth's press conference if anyone's interested.

When Dockery has a press conference it should be a lot of fun. He was well-liked here by players, coaches, and fans.

 

[dgreen]

CAP HELL!!!

How in the hell can they sign all these guys for ridiculous money?

As I said in another thread, they are very good at managing the cap. What they generally suck at, though, is determining who to give money to.And, as fatness posted, the deals are rarely ever what the media reports.

 

[buster c]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

 

[Hang 10]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

How sure are you? After seeing Foxworth get 16.5 million in guarantees from the Ravens, it's not a stretch to think Hall is 6 million better IMO.

 

[southeastjerome]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

How sure are you? After seeing Foxworth get 16.5 million in guarantees from the Ravens, it's not a stretch to think Hall is 6 million better IMO.

Yes, the CB market is crazy right now. I'll be interested to see what Leigh Bodden gets.

 

[T Bell]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

Hall left a dysfunctional Falcons team for a huge contract in Oakland where he was put into a system that didn't match his coverage skills at all. Far smarter NFL people than me in the league had to have seen that and recognized that he was still a valuable FA pickup. The Redskins paid top dollar, but I don't think that the contract was beyond the pale.

 

[southeastjerome]

I like the moves, but this team still lacks some serious depth. And there are still holes to fill with no money and very few draft picks to do so. OLB is still a huge need as is OT. There literally is no depth on the defensive line and that is worrisome with Jason Taylor another year older and coming off of such an injury plagued year. We can plug one of these holes (hopefully) with the first rounder, but that still leaves two pretty significant holes out there.

 

[T Bell]

I like the moves, but this team still lacks some serious depth. And there are still holes to fill with no money and very few draft picks to do so. OLB is still a huge need as is OT. There literally is no depth on the defensive line and that is worrisome with Jason Taylor another year older and coming off of such an injury plagued year. We can plug one of these holes (hopefully) with the first rounder, but that still leaves two pretty significant holes out there.

With Dockery back, they don't need to draft o-line with the first pick. I wouldn't mind them picking one of the top two DT's even after having signed Haynesworth.

 

[Bankerguy]

Dockery-Good move.

Haynesworth-Risky move, boom or bust. Overall it upgrades the team, but that deal was BIG.

Hall-Bad move, you guys are going to regret this one.

 

[fatness]

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

But you're not certain of that. You're guessing that. Let's say they give him this same offer less $2 million. He goes on the market. You're absolutely certain no other team would offer him $4 million more than that? Because if they do, he's gone, or the Redskins have to sign him for more than they did.And signing him wasn't done in a vacuum. If he left, then Springs had to stay. If Springs stayed that ruled out Haynesworth or Dockery or both, and the Skins would have then tried to make lesser improvements to their 2 big weaknesses -- the lines. Big gamble to take. It's usually wise for teams to lock up their free agents that they're depending on in upcoming years. Hall was one of them. Other teams do this and we consider it wise.

 

[fatness]

I wouldn't mind them picking one of the top two DT's even after having signed Haynesworth.

I wouldn't mind seeing them trade their 1st rounder for 2 lower picks, and using their 3 first picks on the best offensive or defensive linemen available. They seriously need depth on both lines.

 

[T Bell]

I wouldn't mind them picking one of the top two DT's even after having signed Haynesworth.

I wouldn't mind seeing them trade their 1st rounder for 2 lower picks, and using their 3 first picks on the best offensive or defensive linemen available. They seriously need depth on both lines.

I agree with this, but if they're on the clock with one of those two DT's on the board, I say grab him too unless they like one of the OT's better.

 

[Marvelous]

Dockery wasn't supposed to be a free agent

Buffalo and Detroit had agreed to a trade Thursday with Detroit willing to pick up the rest of Dockery's 7-year, $49 million contract and to guarantee the 2009 and 2010 portions of that deal. However, the Bills failed to file the necessary paperwork with the NFL Management Council by the 4 p.m. dealine, according to a league source, and, rather than pay Dockery $4.5 million for this year, the Bills allowed him to become a free agent.

The Lions were still willing to pick up the remainder of the deal with the two guaranteed years and Dockery, who spent today in Detroit, was close to accepting their deal. However, tonight he decided to take the Skins' deal, which will pay im $3.5 million less over the duraton of the deal.

That's 2 good players in 2 years (Hall and Dockery) who the Redskins pounced on when other teams were dumb enough to release them. 2 starters, no less. That's very good work by the Skins (I feel awkward saying that).

I was very impressed that the Redskins landed Hall last year when he was a surprise mid-season cut by the Raiders. They had no history with Hall and he could have signed with any team. With Dockery, the Redskins would naturally have the inside track since he played here before and apparently enjoyed it. It good to go back home after a bad experience. Like Smoot did.

 

[Marvelous]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

Good starting cornerbacks are paid a lot of money now. It's a lot of money, but does not seem out of line for a starting cornerback.

 

[Marvelous]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

Hall left a dysfunctional Falcons team for a huge contract in Oakland where he was put into a system that didn't match his coverage skills at all. Far smarter NFL people than me in the league had to have seen that and recognized that he was still a valuable FA pickup. The Redskins paid top dollar, but I don't think that the contract was beyond the pale.

One great thing the Redskins did, by landing him last year, both the Redskins and Hall got a 7 game trial period to see if it was a good fit. From what I have heard, Hall has matured after his experiences in Atlanta and Oakland. His signing is probably much lower risk than Haynesworth. I think it is hard to find fault with re-signing Hall.

 

[T Bell]

Last night, I was wondering if there was a way to get Haynesworth, resign Hall, and sign Dockery.

3 out of 3 now. And as far as I'm concerned that's very good work by the front office (it feels so weird to say that). Their glaring needs were O-line and D-line which Dockery and Haynesworth should significantly help, and they let Washington and Springs go and kept Hall. They still have their draft picks.Springs and Washington?orHaynesworth, Dockery, and Hall? Not much to think about there.

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

Hall left a dysfunctional Falcons team for a huge contract in Oakland where he was put into a system that didn't match his coverage skills at all. Far smarter NFL people than me in the league had to have seen that and recognized that he was still a valuable FA pickup. The Redskins paid top dollar, but I don't think that the contract was beyond the pale.

One great thing the Redskins did, by landing him last year, both the Redskins and Hall got a 7 game trial period to see if it was a good fit. From what I have heard, Hall has matured after his experiences in Atlanta and Oakland. His signing is probably much lower risk than Haynesworth. I think it is hard to find fault with re-signing Hall.

I agree. I'm not exactly sure why, but I regard Hall as a safer signing than Haynesworth.

 

[Marvelous]

I like the moves, but this team still lacks some serious depth. And there are still holes to fill with no money and very few draft picks to do so. OLB is still a huge need as is OT. There literally is no depth on the defensive line and that is worrisome with Jason Taylor another year older and coming off of such an injury plagued year. We can plug one of these holes (hopefully) with the first rounder, but that still leaves two pretty significant holes out there.

With Dockery back, they don't need to draft o-line with the first pick. I wouldn't mind them picking one of the top two DT's even after having signed Haynesworth.

I still think OL is the biggest area of need. The need another guard (unless Reinhart has a future soon), center, and could use another tackle for the future. I think both Thomas and Rabach should have competition in camp at a minimum.

 

[Yamato]

Dockery-Good move.Haynesworth-Risky move, boom or bust. Overall it upgrades the team, but that deal was BIG. Hall-Bad move, you guys are going to regret this one.

If Hall plays like he did the second half of the season he is a pro bowl CB.

 

[fatness]

One great thing the Redskins did, by landing him last year, both the Redskins and Hall got a 7 game trial period to see if it was a good fit. From what I have heard, Hall has matured after his experiences in Atlanta and Oakland. His signing is probably much lower risk than Haynesworth. I think it is hard to find fault with re-signing Hall.

Both players and coaches say either that Hall is a good guy in the locker room, or a great guy in the locker room. There's significant value in that, too.

 

[fatness]

There seems to be a perception among some observers that the Washington Redskins paid far more for free agent defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth than any other team was willing to pay.

Not so, according to one person involved in the negotiations. "He was going to get that money from someone," said an official with another team that bid on Haynesworth, speaking on the condition of anonymity because his club was not discussing its involvement publicly. "If it wasn't the Redskins, it would have been someone else."

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers were deeply involved in the Haynesworth negotiations, and the New York Giants made an attempt to sign him as well.

Mark Maske

 

[fatness]

Ryan O'Halloran projects the starting lineups here: Link

OFFENSE

QB: Jason Campbell

RB: Clinton Portis

FB: Mike Sellers

LT: Chris Samuels

LG: Derrick Dockery

C: Casey Rabach

RG: Randy Thomas

RT: Jon Jansen OR Stephon Heyer. Jim Zorn will probably open this competition up at the start of training camp.

E: Chris Cooley

WR:Santana Moss

WR:Antwaan Randle El

DEFENSE

DE:Andre Carter

DT:Albert Haynesworth

DT:Cornelius Griffin

DE:Jason Taylor

SLB:?????. The Redskins should address this spot in the first round but also have a veteran ready to go as a stop gap in case the youngster isn't ready to go.

MLB:London Fletcher

WLB:Rocky McIntosh

CBeAngelo Hall

CB:Carlos Rogers

S:LaRon Landry

S:Chris Horton

SPECIAL TEAMS

P:????. Don't you think it's time for the Redskins to sign somebody?

K: Dave Rayner or Shaun Suisham. Another competition that will make the preseason a little interesting.

 

[buster c]

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

But you're not certain of that. You're guessing that. Let's say they give him this same offer less $2 million. He goes on the market. You're absolutely certain no other team would offer him $4 million more than that? Because if they do, he's gone, or the Redskins have to sign him for more than they did.

And signing him wasn't done in a vacuum. If he left, then Springs had to stay. If Springs stayed that ruled out Haynesworth or Dockery or both, and the Skins would have then tried to make lesser improvements to their 2 big weaknesses -- the lines. Big gamble to take.

It's usually wise for teams to lock up their free agents that they're depending on in upcoming years. Hall was one of them. Other teams do this and we consider it wise.

here's how I know they overpaid. because they ALWAYS do.Hall was inked prior to midnight and received no other offers. do you think that if he had hit the market and got a good offer that Hall's agent would have tried to get the Skins to beat it? of course they would have. but what did the FO do? they did what they always do. negotiated against themselves. Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

this is their history. need a refresher?

L. Coles. Asked for 10m. They gave him $13m. outbid themselves.

B. Lloyd - tore up his contract and gave him a $10m bonus he never asked for!

Archuletta - think anyone else was going to make him the highest paid safety in NFL history? how about the 5th highest paid??

they pay extra in trades, too:

Jason Taylor - think Tuna would have dealt him for less?

did we need to throw in a #2 in the Bailey/Portis deal? that should have been a straight-up trade.

2 draft picks for TJ Duckett?

you're right, I am guessing. but that's what we all do here, for the most part. however, my guesses are backed by a lenghty history.

 

[buster c]

One great thing the Redskins did, by landing him last year, both the Redskins and Hall got a 7 game trial period to see if it was a good fit. From what I have heard, Hall has matured after his experiences in Atlanta and Oakland. His signing is probably much lower risk than Haynesworth. I think it is hard to find fault with re-signing Hall.

Both players and coaches say either that Hall is a good guy in the locker room, or a great guy in the locker room. There's significant value in that, too.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

 

[Ripleys]

Lord I hope ARE isn't our starting #2 WR come Sept...

 

[fatness]

Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

Oh come on. The league is starved for cornerbacks and overpays them regularly. It's quite likely that someone else would've ponied up as much or more than the Redskins. And in that case they'd pay even more to retain him, or they'd lose him, be forced to keep Springs, and not get either Dockery or Haynesworth or both.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

So you figure his most recent team doesn't know him, and the teams that he played for in the past do? Um, OK. It seems the leopard that's not changing its spots is you not changing your opinion of Hall, despite what his coaches and teammates think and what we say on the field. Just sayin......

 

[Ripleys]

I think the Skins have absolutely improved their team with these 3 signings. It really helps ease the pain that we only have 4 draft picks.

 

[Sebowski]

I like the moves, but this team still lacks some serious depth. And there are still holes to fill with no money and very few draft picks to do so. OLB is still a huge need as is OT. There literally is no depth on the defensive line and that is worrisome with Jason Taylor another year older and coming off of such an injury plagued year. We can plug one of these holes (hopefully) with the first rounder, but that still leaves two pretty significant holes out there.

Last year's draft is going to be very important for success next year. At least one of the three pass catchers to step up, as does Rhinehart. Rob Jackson needs to prove that he is not just a project. The more I thin about it the more I want a LB at 13 and a T in the third. Thinking of starting Fincher or Baldes at OLB is giving me Warrick Holdman flash backs and I don't like it. I do like Blades, but I don't want to see him starting on the outside.

 

[buster c]

and while I am venting:

1) I thought we all agreed that you build a team from the inside out. Why then give such a huge deal to Hall, a CB?

2) I hear the Giants are looking to add Canty (DE), Rocky Bernard (DT), and Michael Boley (LB). Think they'll come cheaper then what we just paid?

3) by spending so much on 1-2 guys, depth is not addressed. again. especially on the lines, this is the biggest problem.

4) Evans is/was the best DE on the roster; instead, they keep a past-his-prime Taylor and restructure a never-had-a-prime Carter, when they should've cut him.

5) pay attention to what the Pats & Giants do and realize we'll never have that with taking orders from spoiled little Richie Rich.

6) Thomas & Jansen on the OL's right side again? the offense may regress.

 

[buster c]

Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

Oh come on. The league is starved for cornerbacks and overpays them regularly. It's quite likely that someone else would've ponied up as much or more than the Redskins. And in that case they'd pay even more to retain him, or they'd lose him, be forced to keep Springs, and not get either Dockery or Haynesworth or both.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

So you figure his most recent team doesn't know him, and the teams that he played for in the past do? Um, OK. It seems the leopard that's not changing its spots is you not changing your opinion of Hall, despite what his coaches and teammates think and what we say on the field. Just sayin......

hey fat - you see the Jets grab Lito Sheppard for a 5th? that's a shark move. Hall's most recent team - who? us? you'll ignore 4.5 years of history for 7 games? I told you he was playing for this contract. let's watch and see if he reverts to the turd that is his nature. tell you what, I saw him on the field a few times last year with body language saying to his mates 'that was your man!' after a bad play. we'll see. I'll be cheering him on cuz I'm a fool!

 

[Hang 10]

Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

Oh come on. The league is starved for cornerbacks and overpays them regularly. It's quite likely that someone else would've ponied up as much or more than the Redskins. And in that case they'd pay even more to retain him, or they'd lose him, be forced to keep Springs, and not get either Dockery or Haynesworth or both.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

So you figure his most recent team doesn't know him, and the teams that he played for in the past do? Um, OK. It seems the leopard that's not changing its spots is you not changing your opinion of Hall, despite what his coaches and teammates think and what we say on the field. Just sayin......

hey fat - you see the Jets grab Lito Sheppard for a 5th? that's a shark move. Hall's most recent team - who? us? you'll ignore 4.5 years of history for 7 games? I told you he was playing for this contract. let's watch and see if he reverts to the turd that is his nature. tell you what, I saw him on the field a few times last year with body language saying to his mates 'that was your man!' after a bad play. we'll see. I'll be cheering him on cuz I'm a fool!

Trading away 2 draft picks for a malcontent corner is a shark move? Let's see how quick the Jets give him a new fat contract too. This is what you'd rather the skins FO had done? Really?

 

[thayman]

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

But you're not certain of that. You're guessing that. Let's say they give him this same offer less $2 million. He goes on the market. You're absolutely certain no other team would offer him $4 million more than that? Because if they do, he's gone, or the Redskins have to sign him for more than they did.

And signing him wasn't done in a vacuum. If he left, then Springs had to stay. If Springs stayed that ruled out Haynesworth or Dockery or both, and the Skins would have then tried to make lesser improvements to their 2 big weaknesses -- the lines. Big gamble to take.

It's usually wise for teams to lock up their free agents that they're depending on in upcoming years. Hall was one of them. Other teams do this and we consider it wise.

here's how I know they overpaid. because they ALWAYS do.Hall was inked prior to midnight and received no other offers. do you think that if he had hit the market and got a good offer that Hall's agent would have tried to get the Skins to beat it? of course they would have. but what did the FO do? they did what they always do. negotiated against themselves. Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

this is their history. need a refresher?

L. Coles. Asked for 10m. They gave him $13m. outbid themselves.

B. Lloyd - tore up his contract and gave him a $10m bonus he never asked for!

Archuletta - think anyone else was going to make him the highest paid safety in NFL history? how about the 5th highest paid??

they pay extra in trades, too:

Jason Taylor - think Tuna would have dealt him for less?

did we need to throw in a #2 in the Bailey/Portis deal? that should have been a straight-up trade.

2 draft picks for TJ Duckett?

you're right, I am guessing. but that's what we all do here, for the most part. however, my guesses are backed by a lenghty history.

The three trades you mention they were forced to pay extra. The Taylor and Duckett trades were two made after at least one starter went down to injury. The Bailey deal was one where everyone knew he wasn't going to re-sign with Washington. Denver made us pay extra for Portis....to allow the upgrade from the might Trung Candidate.

 

[FavreCo]

You have no QB.

 

[Ripleys]

You have no QB.

You have no clue

 

[buster c]

Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

Oh come on. The league is starved for cornerbacks and overpays them regularly. It's quite likely that someone else would've ponied up as much or more than the Redskins. And in that case they'd pay even more to retain him, or they'd lose him, be forced to keep Springs, and not get either Dockery or Haynesworth or both.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

So you figure his most recent team doesn't know him, and the teams that he played for in the past do? Um, OK. It seems the leopard that's not changing its spots is you not changing your opinion of Hall, despite what his coaches and teammates think and what we say on the field. Just sayin......

hey fat - you see the Jets grab Lito Sheppard for a 5th? that's a shark move. Hall's most recent team - who? us? you'll ignore 4.5 years of history for 7 games? I told you he was playing for this contract. let's watch and see if he reverts to the turd that is his nature. tell you what, I saw him on the field a few times last year with body language saying to his mates 'that was your man!' after a bad play. we'll see. I'll be cheering him on cuz I'm a fool!

Trading away 2 draft picks for a malcontent corner is a shark move? Let's see how quick the Jets give him a new fat contract too. This is what you'd rather the skins FO had done? Really?

let me be clear: you build from the inside-out. I don't see CB as a position to throw an ocean of cash at. so trading a #5 pick for a proven CB is a good move. I'd've preferred the Skins make that deal and let Hall walk. plow his money to the interior lines.

 

[buster c]

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

But you're not certain of that. You're guessing that. Let's say they give him this same offer less $2 million. He goes on the market. You're absolutely certain no other team would offer him $4 million more than that? Because if they do, he's gone, or the Redskins have to sign him for more than they did.

And signing him wasn't done in a vacuum. If he left, then Springs had to stay. If Springs stayed that ruled out Haynesworth or Dockery or both, and the Skins would have then tried to make lesser improvements to their 2 big weaknesses -- the lines. Big gamble to take.

It's usually wise for teams to lock up their free agents that they're depending on in upcoming years. Hall was one of them. Other teams do this and we consider it wise.

here's how I know they overpaid. because they ALWAYS do.Hall was inked prior to midnight and received no other offers. do you think that if he had hit the market and got a good offer that Hall's agent would have tried to get the Skins to beat it? of course they would have. but what did the FO do? they did what they always do. negotiated against themselves. Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

this is their history. need a refresher?

L. Coles. Asked for 10m. They gave him $13m. outbid themselves.

B. Lloyd - tore up his contract and gave him a $10m bonus he never asked for!

Archuletta - think anyone else was going to make him the highest paid safety in NFL history? how about the 5th highest paid??

they pay extra in trades, too:

Jason Taylor - think Tuna would have dealt him for less?

did we need to throw in a #2 in the Bailey/Portis deal? that should have been a straight-up trade.

2 draft picks for TJ Duckett?

you're right, I am guessing. but that's what we all do here, for the most part. however, my guesses are backed by a lenghty history.

The three trades you mention they were forced to pay extra. The Taylor and Duckett trades were two made after at least one starter went down to injury. The Bailey deal was one where everyone knew he wasn't going to re-sign with Washington. Denver made us pay extra for Portis....to allow the upgrade from the might Trung Candidate.

those were trades that looked unnecessary at the time and in retrospect, were unnecessary. Portis was hurt in preseason and was clearly going to play in '06 - just maybe not in game 1 (which he actually played in). Plus, we had a healthy Betts at the ready! and when Portis eventually shut it down later that year, how much did TJ play? he barely got a sniff! Betts carried the full load. cost? 2 picks.the trade for Taylor? We already had the unsung Evans. We should have saved the picks and plugged him in.

but that's not what we do here. the little rich kid would rather pay somebody else's player than the homegrown guy.

 

[Hang 10]

Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

Oh come on. The league is starved for cornerbacks and overpays them regularly. It's quite likely that someone else would've ponied up as much or more than the Redskins. And in that case they'd pay even more to retain him, or they'd lose him, be forced to keep Springs, and not get either Dockery or Haynesworth or both.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

So you figure his most recent team doesn't know him, and the teams that he played for in the past do? Um, OK. It seems the leopard that's not changing its spots is you not changing your opinion of Hall, despite what his coaches and teammates think and what we say on the field. Just sayin......

hey fat - you see the Jets grab Lito Sheppard for a 5th? that's a shark move. Hall's most recent team - who? us? you'll ignore 4.5 years of history for 7 games? I told you he was playing for this contract. let's watch and see if he reverts to the turd that is his nature. tell you what, I saw him on the field a few times last year with body language saying to his mates 'that was your man!' after a bad play. we'll see. I'll be cheering him on cuz I'm a fool!

Trading away 2 draft picks for a malcontent corner is a shark move? Let's see how quick the Jets give him a new fat contract too. This is what you'd rather the skins FO had done? Really?

let me be clear: you build from the inside-out. I don't see CB as a position to throw an ocean of cash at. so trading a #5 pick for a proven CB is a good move. I'd've preferred the Skins make that deal and let Hall walk. plow his money to the interior lines.

Wow. It doesn't look like you got all the facts infront of you. First off, it's 5th and conditional pick for Lito...that conditional pick could end up being a 2nd rounder next season if he plays well. Second, Lito was unhappy in Philly because he wanted a new contract...so you better believe the Jets are about to pay him (maybe not Hall money but I'm sure it will be a big deal). And lasttly, they just signed Haynesworth and Dockery...you know, building from the inside out. Or did you miss all that?

 

[Marvelous]

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

But you're not certain of that. You're guessing that. Let's say they give him this same offer less $2 million. He goes on the market. You're absolutely certain no other team would offer him $4 million more than that? Because if they do, he's gone, or the Redskins have to sign him for more than they did.

And signing him wasn't done in a vacuum. If he left, then Springs had to stay. If Springs stayed that ruled out Haynesworth or Dockery or both, and the Skins would have then tried to make lesser improvements to their 2 big weaknesses -- the lines. Big gamble to take.

It's usually wise for teams to lock up their free agents that they're depending on in upcoming years. Hall was one of them. Other teams do this and we consider it wise.

here's how I know they overpaid. because they ALWAYS do.Hall was inked prior to midnight and received no other offers. do you think that if he had hit the market and got a good offer that Hall's agent would have tried to get the Skins to beat it? of course they would have. but what did the FO do? they did what they always do. negotiated against themselves. Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

this is their history. need a refresher?

L. Coles. Asked for 10m. They gave him $13m. outbid themselves.

B. Lloyd - tore up his contract and gave him a $10m bonus he never asked for!

Archuletta - think anyone else was going to make him the highest paid safety in NFL history? how about the 5th highest paid??

they pay extra in trades, too:

Jason Taylor - think Tuna would have dealt him for less?

did we need to throw in a #2 in the Bailey/Portis deal? that should have been a straight-up trade.

2 draft picks for TJ Duckett?

you're right, I am guessing. but that's what we all do here, for the most part. however, my guesses are backed by a lenghty history.

The three trades you mention they were forced to pay extra. The Taylor and Duckett trades were two made after at least one starter went down to injury. The Bailey deal was one where everyone knew he wasn't going to re-sign with Washington. Denver made us pay extra for Portis....to allow the upgrade from the might Trung Candidate.

those were trades that looked unnecessary at the time and in retrospect, were unnecessary. Portis was hurt in preseason and was clearly going to play in '06 - just maybe not in game 1 (which he actually played in). Plus, we had a healthy Betts at the ready! and when Portis eventually shut it down later that year, how much did TJ play? he barely got a sniff! Betts carried the full load. cost? 2 picks.the trade for Taylor? We already had the unsung Evans. We should have saved the picks and plugged him in.

but that's not what we do here. the little rich kid would rather pay somebody else's player than the homegrown guy.

Moves like that show how little confidence you have in your backups. They should have given Evans a shot as starting. It's not like he's an unknown commdity.Last season the Redskins also had a safty on their roster in the begining of the season. When Doughty gets hurt, you figure they would activate him and get him into the rotation. Instead, the cut him and sign Mike Green. Why was this guy on the roster if you had no plans to ever play him.

The Erasmus James situation also looks very bad. The could have cut him at the end of camp and not paid a 7th rounder to Minnesota. Instead, they kept him, had him inactive all year, and finally cut him near the end of the season. That made no sense.

And Justin Tryon over Leigh Torrence. Makes not sense.

I agree that the front office did well in signing Hall last year, but there are also some head-scratching moves they made.

 

[buster c]

Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

Oh come on. The league is starved for cornerbacks and overpays them regularly. It's quite likely that someone else would've ponied up as much or more than the Redskins. And in that case they'd pay even more to retain him, or they'd lose him, be forced to keep Springs, and not get either Dockery or Haynesworth or both.

yet two teams have had to fumigate their locker rooms to rid them of his presence. tell you what, a leopard can't change it's spots and odds are that D.Hall will wear out his welcome here too. I hope not, but I semi-expect it. he played nice for 7 games because he knew if he did he'd get a lot of the little boy's money.

So you figure his most recent team doesn't know him, and the teams that he played for in the past do? Um, OK. It seems the leopard that's not changing its spots is you not changing your opinion of Hall, despite what his coaches and teammates think and what we say on the field. Just sayin......

hey fat - you see the Jets grab Lito Sheppard for a 5th? that's a shark move. Hall's most recent team - who? us? you'll ignore 4.5 years of history for 7 games? I told you he was playing for this contract. let's watch and see if he reverts to the turd that is his nature. tell you what, I saw him on the field a few times last year with body language saying to his mates 'that was your man!' after a bad play. we'll see. I'll be cheering him on cuz I'm a fool!

Trading away 2 draft picks for a malcontent corner is a shark move? Let's see how quick the Jets give him a new fat contract too. This is what you'd rather the skins FO had done? Really?

let me be clear: you build from the inside-out. I don't see CB as a position to throw an ocean of cash at. so trading a #5 pick for a proven CB is a good move. I'd've preferred the Skins make that deal and let Hall walk. plow his money to the interior lines.

Wow. It doesn't look like you got all the facts infront of you. First off, it's 5th and conditional pick for Lito...that conditional pick could end up being a 2nd rounder next season if he plays well. Second, Lito was unhappy in Philly because he wanted a new contract...so you better believe the Jets are about to pay him (maybe not Hall money but I'm sure it will be a big deal). And lasttly, they just signed Haynesworth and Dockery...you know, building from the inside out. Or did you miss all that?

Vinnie, for what you paid for Hall to eventually divide your locker room, you could have signed two starting linemen and still paid Dock and Albert.

 

[Rockchild]

And how likely would it be that the Eagles would have traded Lito to divisional rival? Not very without a substantial premium attached.

 

[thayman]

fatty: is it good work by the front office to outbid themselves for Hall's services? I'm quite certain that no other team was going to go near the number that he got.

But you're not certain of that. You're guessing that. Let's say they give him this same offer less $2 million. He goes on the market. You're absolutely certain no other team would offer him $4 million more than that? Because if they do, he's gone, or the Redskins have to sign him for more than they did.

And signing him wasn't done in a vacuum. If he left, then Springs had to stay. If Springs stayed that ruled out Haynesworth or Dockery or both, and the Skins would have then tried to make lesser improvements to their 2 big weaknesses -- the lines. Big gamble to take.

It's usually wise for teams to lock up their free agents that they're depending on in upcoming years. Hall was one of them. Other teams do this and we consider it wise.

here's how I know they overpaid. because they ALWAYS do.Hall was inked prior to midnight and received no other offers. do you think that if he had hit the market and got a good offer that Hall's agent would have tried to get the Skins to beat it? of course they would have. but what did the FO do? they did what they always do. negotiated against themselves. Hall wasn't going anywhere. this is where he wanted to be.

this is their history. need a refresher?

L. Coles. Asked for 10m. They gave him $13m. outbid themselves.

B. Lloyd - tore up his contract and gave him a $10m bonus he never asked for!

Archuletta - think anyone else was going to make him the highest paid safety in NFL history? how about the 5th highest paid??

they pay extra in trades, too:

Jason Taylor - think Tuna would have dealt him for less?

did we need to throw in a #2 in the Bailey/Portis deal? that should have been a straight-up trade.

2 draft picks for TJ Duckett?

you're right, I am guessing. but that's what we all do here, for the most part. however, my guesses are backed by a lenghty history.

The three trades you mention they were forced to pay extra. The Taylor and Duckett trades were two made after at least one starter went down to injury. The Bailey deal was one where everyone knew he wasn't going to re-sign with Washington. Denver made us pay extra for Portis....to allow the upgrade from the might Trung Candidate.

those were trades that looked unnecessary at the time and in retrospect, were unnecessary. Portis was hurt in preseason and was clearly going to play in '06 - just maybe not in game 1 (which he actually played in). Plus, we had a healthy Betts at the ready! and when Portis eventually shut it down later that year, how much did TJ play? he barely got a sniff! Betts carried the full load. cost? 2 picks.the trade for Taylor? We already had the unsung Evans. We should have saved the picks and plugged him in.

but that's not what we do here. the little rich kid would rather pay somebody else's player than the homegrown guy.

Betts was not healthy at the time, Portis was CLEARLY going to play? Are you kidding me?? Many thought his shoulder was a big time injury and going to put him out for awhile.

 

[fatness]

Last year's draft is going to be very important for success next year. At least one of the three pass catchers to step up, as does Rhinehart. Rob Jackson needs to prove that he is not just a project. The more I thin about it the more I want a LB at 13 and a T in the third. Thinking of starting Fincher or Baldes at OLB is giving me Warrick Holdman flash backs and I don't like it. I do like Blades, but I don't want to see him starting on the outside.

I agree that they need a LB, but Rinehart seems far far away from stepping up and I think he may end up a total bust. After the first preseason game last year he got some good words from the coaching staff, but in the other games he was bad and embarrassing. It will be a very big deal whether Thomas and/or Kelly step up this year.

 

[fatness]

Vinnie, for what you paid for Hall to eventually divide your locker room, you could have signed two starting linemen and still paid Dock and Albert.

You missed the parts where the players say Hall's a good locker room guy, and the coaches say the same thing. Really man, you've got some good and valid criticisms of the Skins, ones that several of us have agreed with for years. But you're also off the wall and completely wrong about some other ones. You've got to separate them. I can list 15 bad things the front office has done over the years. I dislike the front office. I've badmouthed them as much as anyone here has over the years when I thought they were screwing up. But the Hall signing is a good one by all indications. Someone else would've paid him more than that, and on critical late-game plays we'd have Springs on the bench hurt, Smoot playing hurt or on the bench hurt, Rogers, Tryon, and Torrence. That's at least 2 TD's given up if you have an inadequate pass rush. And guess what the Redskins have always had? An inadequate pass rush. A good defense needs a strong line, and you can never have enough good cornerbacks. Never. Cornerbacks are the last line of defense on game-changing plays. Dockery is a BIG upgrade for the O-line. They got him MUCH cheaper than the money Buffalo paid him 2 years ago. Shark move there, with no draft picks wasted. The biggest potential failure for the front office last year and this year (so far) is the failure of anyone in last year's draft class to step up besides Chris Horton. If those guys fail again to produce this year the Skins are fairly screwed. And if this year's draft is similar, this year and next will get ugly as the inevitable injuries occur. That's why the front office can rightly be criticized for drafting so few linemen last year, because that's what we need more of now.Oh and by the way, we got 2 linemen already.

 

[fatness]

You have no QB.

You're doing this wrong.

 

[southeastjerome]

I like the moves, but this team still lacks some serious depth. And there are still holes to fill with no money and very few draft picks to do so. OLB is still a huge need as is OT. There literally is no depth on the defensive line and that is worrisome with Jason Taylor another year older and coming off of such an injury plagued year. We can plug one of these holes (hopefully) with the first rounder, but that still leaves two pretty significant holes out there.

With Dockery back, they don't need to draft o-line with the first pick. I wouldn't mind them picking one of the top two DT's even after having signed Haynesworth.

I still think OT is a huge need. I don't want to go into another year with the failed Heyer/Jansen experiment of 2008. That obviously didn't work out too well.

 

[dgreen]

Ryan O'Halloran projects the starting lineups here: Link

OFFENSE

QB: Jason Campbell

RB: Clinton Portis

FB: Mike Sellers

LT: Chris Samuels

LG: Derrick Dockery

C: Casey Rabach

RG: Randy Thomas

RT: Jon Jansen OR Stephon Heyer. Jim Zorn will probably open this competition up at the start of training camp.

E: Chris Cooley

WR:Santana Moss

WR:Antwaan Randle El

DEFENSE

DE:Andre Carter

DT:Albert Haynesworth

DT:Cornelius Griffin

DE:Jason Taylor

SLB:?????. The Redskins should address this spot in the first round but also have a veteran ready to go as a stop gap in case the youngster isn't ready to go.

MLB:London Fletcher

WLB:Rocky McIntosh

CBeAngelo Hall

CB:Carlos Rogers

S:LaRon Landry

S:Chris Horton

SPECIAL TEAMS

P:????. Don't you think it's time for the Redskins to sign somebody?

K: Dave Rayner or Shaun Suisham. Another competition that will make the preseason a little interesting.

If the value is there, I'd much rather see them address RT in the first round over SLB.

 

[T Bell]

Last year's draft is going to be very important for success next year. At least one of the three pass catchers to step up, as does Rhinehart. Rob Jackson needs to prove that he is not just a project. The more I thin about it the more I want a LB at 13 and a T in the third. Thinking of starting Fincher or Baldes at OLB is giving me Warrick Holdman flash backs and I don't like it. I do like Blades, but I don't want to see him starting on the outside.

I agree that they need a LB, but Rinehart seems far far away from stepping up and I think he may end up a total bust. After the first preseason game last year he got some good words from the coaching staff, but in the other games he was bad and embarrassing. It will be a very big deal whether Thomas and/or Kelly step up this year.

Linemen. They need linemen. They still need linemen and they are going to need linemen. That's where their draft focus needs to be. I have no problem getting a LB later on, particularly if they trade down, but their primary draft resources need to be spent on the lines.

 

[Meast21]

Last year's draft is going to be very important for success next year. At least one of the three pass catchers to step up, as does Rhinehart. Rob Jackson needs to prove that he is not just a project. The more I thin about it the more I want a LB at 13 and a T in the third. Thinking of starting Fincher or Baldes at OLB is giving me Warrick Holdman flash backs and I don't like it. I do like Blades, but I don't want to see him starting on the outside.

I agree that they need a LB, but Rinehart seems far far away from stepping up and I think he may end up a total bust. After the first preseason game last year he got some good words from the coaching staff, but in the other games he was bad and embarrassing. It will be a very big deal whether Thomas and/or Kelly step up this year.

Linemen. They need linemen. They still need linemen and they are going to need linemen. That's where their draft focus needs to be. I have no problem getting a LB later on, particularly if they trade down, but their primary draft resources need to be spent on the lines.