***Official*** 2009 Washington Redskins Thread (2 Viewers)

[dgreen]

You know what really sucks? I'm not upset about the loss or the way the they played. I hope I'm not losing my passion for the team, but right now I feel very little.

OK, I'm starting to get pissed. The more I think about them, the more pissed I get.I'm going to watch some real football. The Bengals are on!

 

[Sebowski]

They say it is a game of inches. We drove right up the field throwing the ball on the first drive and came up a few inches short. What a difference those inches would have made.

 

[buster c]

simply, the rot of the franchise begins at the very top.

everything else is a symptom

Wilbon

Dysfunctional Wisdom

By Michael Wilbon

Sunday, September 27, 2009

If you're the Detroit Lions, the only team to lose all 16 games in an NFL season, losers of 19 straight games and the laughingstock of the league for a couple of seasons, wouldn't you be pretty darn encouraged at the sight of the Washington Redskins coming to town?

Of course you would roll out the red carpet for a team so drawn to drama its coach is in serious trouble the week after winning the home opener. Wouldn't you want a shot at a team that is just about always guilty of underachieving, whose offense is next to worst in the NFL? A team that will be starting a new offensive lineman who has never played a down in the league?

Okay, the Detroit Lions have been a mess for a while. Yes, they're on the short list of biggest losers in professional sports today.

So what does that make the Redskins if they lose in Detroit? Won't that lock in the Redskins as the most dysfunctional team in the NFL? Will Redskins management sue its own players? It wouldn't be any dumber than firing Coach Jim Zorn three games into the season.

Nobody within the organization is confirming that Zorn will be fired if the Redskins lose to the Lions on Sunday, but it's not like the Redskins have earned any benefit of the doubt or given anybody reason to think they'll make a smart, forward-thinking decision.

We're talking about a franchise that undermined its starting quarterback over the summer, a franchise that sued financially strapped ticket holders during a recession while swearing to the longest waiting list for season tickets in professional sports, a franchise whose fans resorted to booing during and after the very first home game of the season, even though it was a victory.

These, sadly, have become the conversations that surround the Washington Redskins, the discussions made even more embarrassing by the fact that the franchise has a record of 83-95 since the last back-to-back winning seasons, in 1996 and 1997.

Why wouldn't Daniel Snyder fire Zorn at 1-2? It fits the pattern of dysfunction dating from 2000. Norv Turner was bounced with three games left in an 8-8 season. Marty Schottenheimer, whom Snyder gave essentially total control of football operations, was fired one year later after going 8-8. Steve Spurrier's tenure ended with an aggregate record of 12-20 and all-around disgust. The second Joe Gibbs era was so much less (30-34) than most of us expected.

The team has missed the playoffs in 13 of the past 16 seasons. The highlights, in fact, have been the headlines in the offseason. Redskins get Bruce Smith. Redskins get Dana Stubblefield. Redskins get Deion Sanders. Redskins hire Ray Rhodes. Redskins trade draft picks. Redskins hire Marvin Lewis. Redskins trade more draft picks.

Redskins steal offensive genius from Kansas City with big playbook. Ooops!

Redskins get Jason Taylor for draft picks. Taylor goes back to Miami.

Just because firing Zorn would be stupid and would set the franchise back two or three years doesn't mean the Redskins won't do it. The Redskins lead the league by a wide margin in being goofy. Why keep Zorn when you've got Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, Mike Shanahan and even Tony Dungy out there available? In fact, the less sense it makes, the more likely the Redskins are to do it, like hiring Zorn in the first place.

Look, I'm not saying Zorn is (or isn't) the answer as head coach. But with a combined career record of 9-9, who knows yet? It's not like he's the first head coach to preside over a dreadful Redskins offense. You know where this club has ranked in scoring the past 10 seasons (including this one)? Starting in 2000 they've been 24th (under Norv Turner), 28th (Schottenheimer), 25th and 22nd (Spurrier), 31st, 13th, 20th and 18th (Gibbs), 28th and now 30th (Zorn).

That marks just once in the top half of the league this decade.

So, you'd fire Zorn after going 1-2 to start the season? I think Zorn looked rather foolish when he said he would bench Sonny Jurgensen for saying (thankfully) he would have gotten out of that silly halfback option play against the Rams last Sunday. But I wouldn't fire the coach. This is the root of the problem with the Redskins now; they change coordinators and coaches like Kim Kardashian changes bikinis. You want to make Greg Blache the head coach? One look at Blache would have told anybody he was more qualified than Zorn to be the head coach in the first place.

So, this is the back story of how the Redskins got to be in such a position entering Detroit. Asked during the week about Zorn being on the "hot seat," Clinton Portis said: "I think everybody in this organization is on the hot seat . . . Who's not on the hot seat? Until we come out and play to our potential, I think everybody is on the hot seat."

Everybody except the men who've made the decisions, because they don't actually have to be accountable or do anything beyond blame the media.

Chances are the Redskins can stiff-arm all this Zorn talk at least for a couple of weeks by beating a Lions team run by a rookie quarterback who is completing barely 50 percent of his passes and is tied for the league lead in interceptions.

But if the Redskins lose in Detroit, the anxiety in and around the team will be higher than it has been in recent seasons, and maybe Zorn really will be out. Recent history says the Redskins will make changes. The losses and mini-dramas will outnumber the victories. And a new coach, unsuspecting and innocent, will figure he can change it all. Good luck.

 

[Marvelous]

I guess real vitriol will come out later...But I am as embarrased to be a Redskins fan as I have been since the early Norv days.Did you guys hear Strahan flat out say that the team had quit on Zorn on the half-time show? Did anyone hear any of the ESPN980 post game show and specifically Hanrahan say the same thing? I missed the CSN postgame show, but I bet BMitch also said that.Zorn's wife ought to call a real estate agent now and get the house on the market, because they ain't gonna be living in DC very much longer.

IDK. I don't see them quitting. I see them as a team that appears to have no plan. I've been saying it for a while: this offense doesn't know what they want to be. And it shows.This is now officially a bad team. They get to face yet another bad team next week. It'll be another 50 years before this team gets a gift schedule to start a season like this one. And they're blowing it.

I thought the team quit, especially the defense. After not getting the TD on the opening drive, how do you let the Lions go 99 yards and score a TD. I thought a safty was a much more likely outcome. But on the first play, Golston jumps offside to give them breathing room from the goal line. A terrible start to a terrible drive. The next drive, Detroit starts at the 6, marches down the field, and eventually kicks a field goal. And I though Sanchez missed a lot of open recievers. Imagine what happens if this defense plays a team with a real offense with good wide recievers.

 

[dgreen]

I guess real vitriol will come out later...But I am as embarrased to be a Redskins fan as I have been since the early Norv days.Did you guys hear Strahan flat out say that the team had quit on Zorn on the half-time show? Did anyone hear any of the ESPN980 post game show and specifically Hanrahan say the same thing? I missed the CSN postgame show, but I bet BMitch also said that.Zorn's wife ought to call a real estate agent now and get the house on the market, because they ain't gonna be living in DC very much longer.

IDK. I don't see them quitting. I see them as a team that appears to have no plan. I've been saying it for a while: this offense doesn't know what they want to be. And it shows.This is now officially a bad team. They get to face yet another bad team next week. It'll be another 50 years before this team gets a gift schedule to start a season like this one. And they're blowing it.

I thought the team quit, especially the defense. After not getting the TD on the opening drive, how do you let the Lions go 99 yards and score a TD. I thought a safty was a much more likely outcome. But on the first play, Golston jumps offside to give them breathing room from the goal line. A terrible start to a terrible drive. The next drive, Detroit starts at the 6, marches down the field, and eventually kicks a field goal. And I though Sanchez missed a lot of open recievers. Imagine what happens if this defense plays a team with a real offense with good wide recievers.

They played poorly, but they still appeared to be playing hard and not quitting. From my non-expert POV, I didn't think the D was in position to make plays today. The Lions OC owned Blache in the first half.

 

[dgreen]

They say it is a game of inches. We drove right up the field throwing the ball on the first drive and came up a few inches short. What a difference those inches would have made.

Once again, the whole series inside the 10 didn't work. Play 1, fade to Kelly. OK. No problem with that. Play 2, a draw to Betts . Play 3, a screen to Portis. Once again, a pass NOT in the endzone. Would have been a better Play 2. Play 4, they did what everyone expected them to do: run left. The more I think about it, the decision to go for it didn't seem aggressive. It seemed desperate.

 

[fatness]

Frank Hanrahan thinks they quit also.

No brains, no heart, no courage. The game tape to be reviewed on Monday comes straight from “The Wizard of Oz.”

The Redskins showed a painful paucity of those traits in their stunning, inept and awful loss to the Detroit Lions. The Lions. The NFL’s reigning laughingstock, with their 19-game skein of defeats dating to 2007.

Hand that crown over, boys. There’s a new bunch of Munchkins in town.

Yes, the Redskins. The last time the Lions had won was Dec. 23, 2007. That’s also the last time the Redskins scored 30 points in a game. Now, even the paltry production of games past, the field goals that we once loathed, look like handsome achievements.

At the half, 13-0. And it wasn’t that close. The Lions battered the Redskins, bullied them, pushed them around. Gashed them. Mashed them. Trashed them. The Lions 19, the Redskins 14.

“Coming out without a win is very difficult for me to deal with,” coach Jim Zorn said.

As it should be.

The Redskins, if you can believe this, gagged on a fourth-and-1 run from the Lions 1-yard in the first quarter and might just as well have gone home then. The red zone nightmare deflated the entire team, which simply stopped thinking, tackling and playing as if it mattered.

“I didn’t believe, from my standpoint, that three points was going to lose the game for us,” Zorn said.

It would take 45 players and a coaching staff to accomplish that.

Link -- there's more to it, worth reading.

 

[Marvelous]

They say it is a game of inches. We drove right up the field throwing the ball on the first drive and came up a few inches short. What a difference those inches would have made.

Once again, the whole series inside the 10 didn't work. Play 1, fade to Kelly. OK. No problem with that. Play 2, a draw to Betts . Play 3, a screen to Portis. Once again, a pass NOT in the endzone. Would have been a better Play 2. Play 4, they did what everyone expected them to do: run left. The more I think about it, the decision to go for it didn't seem aggressive. It seemed desperate.

There appears to be a lot of desparation moves by Zorn. I think he is cracking under the pressure. And there is a lot.Or maybe we just didn't want to kickoff to Detroit and give them a chance for a big return. It could be a recurring strategy.

 

[Marvelous]

I guess real vitriol will come out later...But I am as embarrased to be a Redskins fan as I have been since the early Norv days.Did you guys hear Strahan flat out say that the team had quit on Zorn on the half-time show? Did anyone hear any of the ESPN980 post game show and specifically Hanrahan say the same thing? I missed the CSN postgame show, but I bet BMitch also said that.Zorn's wife ought to call a real estate agent now and get the house on the market, because they ain't gonna be living in DC very much longer.

IDK. I don't see them quitting. I see them as a team that appears to have no plan. I've been saying it for a while: this offense doesn't know what they want to be. And it shows.This is now officially a bad team. They get to face yet another bad team next week. It'll be another 50 years before this team gets a gift schedule to start a season like this one. And they're blowing it.

I thought the team quit, especially the defense. After not getting the TD on the opening drive, how do you let the Lions go 99 yards and score a TD. I thought a safty was a much more likely outcome. But on the first play, Golston jumps offside to give them breathing room from the goal line. A terrible start to a terrible drive. The next drive, Detroit starts at the 6, marches down the field, and eventually kicks a field goal. And I though Sanchez missed a lot of open recievers. Imagine what happens if this defense plays a team with a real offense with good wide recievers.

They played poorly, but they still appeared to be playing hard and not quitting. From my non-expert POV, I didn't think the D was in position to make plays today. The Lions OC owned Blache in the first half.

Quitting is really hard to see or measure. But if the defense quitt, they won't give the extra effort to make great plays. They will get blocked out a little more often. Receivers may get just a little more open. And angles on tackles may not be as good.I thought the defense quit just because they were gettting beaten soundly in the first half and they were just never in posotion to make a play.

 

[fatness]

PFT

And so the calls for Zorn's head will intensify in D.C., and an interim coach will be installed by the launch of the bye week on October 25, if not sooner.Then, next year, it'll be Mike Shanahan or Mike Holmgren calling the shots in D.C.Though some might think that Bill Cowher also will be in the mix, two issues likely make it unlikely that he'd get the job. First, Cowher would want full control over the football operations, and owner Danier Snyder would be reluctant to agree, especially if it means minimizing (or firing) V.P. of football operations Vinny Cerrato. Also, Cowher's mentor (Marty Schottenheimer) might have a thing or two to share with Cowher regarding Schottenheimer's one-year experience with the team in 2001. Schottenheimer secured full control, fired Cerrato, went 8-8, and then was fired.In the end, look for a high-stakes auction to break out between the Cowboys and the Redskins for Shanahan, with the loser getting Holmgren.

 

[fatness]

Passes 41, carries 14. In a close game. Low-scoring game. When the Redskins defense couldn’t get off the field.

Coach Jim Zorn is a former passer. He believes quarterbacks win games, not running backs. This is the proof. Sure, the R edskins needed to pass regularly in the final two minutes against Detroit when scoring once against a prevent defense. But before the final two drives of 15 passes and no runs, it was still nearly a 2 to 1 pass-run ratio.

Clinton Portis can tell John Riggins the latter’s team record for most career yards is safe. Portis will never come close to the more than 1,500 yards needs to beat Riggo. Portis will be fortunate to grab 1,000 yards.

Maybe Zorn surrendered the run when the offensive line couldn’t punch in a fourth-down play at the goal. It wasn’t even close. The offensive line was bad, and it’s better pass blocking than the run, but that early failure seems to alter Zorn’s playcalling.

Who’s calling plays next week versus Tampa Bay? Hard to believe it wouldn’t be Zorn. There are 13 games remaining. But, only two legitimate touchdowns (and two versus prevent defenses) in three games shows the playcalling needs a jump start. The players can’t change, but the calls may soon.

Anybody know a good offensive consultant?

Warpath Confidential

 

[dgreen]

Keim:

The frustration mounted after two games, with players venting to the coach and to the owner. Just two games into Jim Zorn's second season, cracks in the organization were showing.

And then came Sunday's embarrassment, a 19-14 loss at Detroit -- the NFL's worst team with a 19-game losing streak.

In the first two weeks alone, playmaking running back Clinton Portis voiced his frustration with the head coach over perceived too few carries. Another player unloaded on the coach during practice while a teammate spoke to the owner over his role, according to multiple sources.

Now coach Jim Zorn's job security isn't the only thing at risk (he's safe for now). A lifeless locker room heading for the second half against Detroit may indicate players no longer subscribe to the coach's one-time hip, hip hooray motto.

Indeed, the locker room relationship with the former NFL quarterback may be the key to Zorn's future.

After the game Albert Haynesworth told reporters, "It don't matter if Joe Gibbs was here or any All-Star coach, they're still going to point fingers."

Though one NFL source said Sunday that Zorn had "lost the guys," Haynesworth said he thought the players still backed Zorn.

"I hope so," Haynesworth said. "You only have one head coach. I can't speak for everybody else, but I am."

There's no doubt this is the low point in the 19-game Zorn era. But this is likely the lowest point in Snyder's 10-plus year tenure.

It's not just about Sunday's loss. It's about the fact that they were booed off their home field after a win last week and responded with a lackluster effort. It's about the fact that they're now 3-8 since opening Zorn's first season at 6-2. The offensive-minded coach has not seen his offense score more than two touchdowns in 10 of his last 11 games.

The Redskins have largely ignored holes on their offensive line for the past few seasons. The result: a line that was aging last season is now just ineffective. They drafted two receivers and a pass-catching tight end in the second round of 2008; none have yet caught a touchdown pass.

The failure is system-wide.

But that doesn't matter now. The burden is mostly on Zorn.

One player said as the Redskins left the locker room after halftime Sunday, there was no energy. Nobody delivered any rah-rah type yells as they entered a crucial half.

"Just dead silent," the player said. "It was real bad."

 

[Ripleys]

just fire Zorn and Vinny and let us move on. Please.

 

[Ripleys]

and by the way, a few people actually thought Gibbs might have tarnished his reputation coming back and only having 2 playoff appearances in his 2nd tour of duty as our coach. I'd say if anything, what this team has done, or NOT done, since he left, says otherwise. Just winning 8+ games with this team might have been as impressive as winning 3 Super Bowls.

 

[Bizkiteer]

I think the first person that should be fired is Blache. DET was 10 for 16 on 3rd downs at one point, my 13 yr old son can call better defense than what Blache is doing. We've talked about our 3rd down coverage, but it's gotten worse and we suck at blitzing period.

 

[Ripleys]

I agree with that too Bizkiteer. No excuses can be made for our D anymore. We should be MUCH MUCH better than we are looking right now.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

I think the first person that should be fired is Blache. DET was 10 for 16 on 3rd downs at one point, my 13 yr old son can call better defense than what Blache is doing. We've talked about our 3rd down coverage, but it's gotten worse and we suck at blitzing period.

This defense has zero excuses.

 

[fatness]

I think the first person that should be fired is Blache. DET was 10 for 16 on 3rd downs at one point, my 13 yr old son can call better defense than what Blache is doing. We've talked about our 3rd down coverage, but it's gotten worse and we suck at blitzing period.

The maddening thing about Blache is that, when what he's doing during a game doesn't work, he sticks with it. And when his blitzes and coverages don't work over a period of games, he sticks with them. Honestly, he and Zorn share a trait: they believe that what they're calling is right, and that if it fails it's due only to bad understanding or execution by players. And they're both willing to live with the failure fairly indefinitely. They're out of ideas. The cupboard is bare.Listen to this from Zorn after the game:

"The only thing I said to them at the end of the game, again: It's about us taking care of details of the work we put on the field," Zorn said. "I believe that will be the difference once we look at it. . . . The things that we look at will be the small issues that we cannot overlook, and we won't."

There is no clue there that this doesn't work.

 

[fatness]

After a wonderful 10-catch, 178-yard game, wide receiver Santana Moss fell into the deepest and worst snare -- and one that constantly catches the Redskins. Moss said many reasonable things after this defeat. But he also said the magic words that always make my skin crawl in a locker room. "We are the better team," he said.

Anyone who has ever seen "The Hustler," perhaps the best of all sports movies, remembers Paul Newman's character saying to Minnesota Fats, "Even if you beat me, I'm still the best." George C. Scott's character says to Fats, "Stay with this kid. He's a loser."

When the Redskins stop treating outcomes like this, or their losses last year to the Rams and Bengals, as flukes, they will have taken the first step toward minimizing them.

Perhaps most perplexed of all at day's end was Coach Jim Zorn who didn't seem to grasp, entirely, that his two dubious burn-the-book decisions in the first quarter had cost the Redskins at least seven points -- more than the ultimate margin of defeat.

Thomas Boswell

 

[fatness]

If you lose to the worst team in pro football, does that make you the worst team in pro football?

When you lose to the team that has the worst owner in football, does that make your owner the worst owner in football, your general manager the worst assembler of talent in football?

Just asking.

Because if Jim Zorn has to answer one more question about his job security, it's time to also hold the coach's players and his superiors accountable for this dumpster fire -- this abomination of a loss.

Just three games into a season, a meltdown is remarkably complete.

Mike Wise

Whatever fire and urgency should have emerged this week instead barely flickered, its embers burning out.

The myth about this team stacking up, talent-wise, against the Eagles or the Giants or the Cowboys has got to die here in Detroit. The Redskins are inferior in the NFC East. It's that simple. Their bluster about having near the personnel of their divisional opponents on paper is just that -- wind. They're wanting in almost every category, except a handful of skill positions.

 

[fatness]

This is horrible.

 

[Marvelous]

And of all the ironies, coming into the preseason, if the Oline could pass protect and if Campbell can play decently, this should be a good team.

The pass blocking has really been pretty good. And Campbell has played fairly well. Combined with no run blocking, especially on the right side of the Oline, and a defense that is terrible, especially on 3rd down, this team is down right lousy.

 

[thayman]

Anyone see how the Vikings-49ers game ended? Exact same situation as the Redskins, only the Vikings ran a play into the endzone...and scored...AND WON!!!!!! Those crazy Vikings.

WHAT?!?!?! YOU CAN DO THAT?!?!

 

[fatness]

Anyone see how the Vikings-49ers game ended? Exact same situation as the Redskins, only the Vikings ran a play into the endzone...and scored...AND WON!!!!!! Those crazy Vikings.

WHAT?!?!?! YOU CAN DO THAT?!?!

Teams that try that are quitters. They don't stick with the plan. Zorn sticks with the plan. Stay medium. Pay attention to the details.

 

[DCThunder]

I was listening to the Monday Morning QB show on ESPN980 with Kevin Sheehan (but no Andy Polly...Yom Kippur) and Czabe did a drive by from his FSR show. The conclusion they came to was that the team is AVERAGE. Not good, not great, not awful, but AVERAGE. It's not "little details" like Zorn or Blatche or Buges would lead us to believe, but players that are old and going downhill or in what is supposed to be the prime of their careers and just not getting it done or just good enough to make an NFL roster.

How many of our players could make the roster of the Steelers or Giants or Patriots? Hell, how many of our players could make the Lions after they dominated the Redskins yesterday?

We need to face it, this team needs a huge housecleaning, not just in the front office, but in the locker room too. We better be prepared for some 4-12 seasons over the next couple of years (possibly/probably starting this season) before the team can return to repectability.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Portis is concerning me. I suppose the whole offense is cause for tremendous concern.

I scrambled yesterday and plugged in Buckhalter for....Portis due to his Questionable status. Never thought I would stoop so low and bench Portis for a career backup RB.

 

[Marvelous]

I was listening to the Monday Morning QB show on ESPN980 with Kevin Sheehan (but no Andy Polly...Yom Kippur) and Czabe did a drive by from his FSR show. The conclusion they came to was that the team is AVERAGE. Not good, not great, not awful, but AVERAGE. It's not "little details" like Zorn or Blatche or Buges would lead us to believe, but players that are old and going downhill or in what is supposed to be the prime of their careers and just not getting it done or just good enough to make an NFL roster. How many of our players could make the roster of the Steelers or Giants or Patriots? Hell, how many of our players could make the Lions after they dominated the Redskins yesterday? We need to face it, this team needs a huge housecleaning, not just in the front office, but in the locker room too. We better be prepared for some 4-12 seasons over the next couple of years (possibly/probably starting this season) before the team can return to repectability.

I think average would be a great improvement at this point. They barely beat the Rams and lost to the Lions. They are on par with the worst of the NFL.I think talent wise, they are above average. It looks like the game day coaching is killing the team. And there are severe motivation issues.Like Bad_Mo mentioned, I am definately getting a bad feeling about Portis. I think he may be the one who really tears the locker room apart.

 

[Bizkiteer]

I think the first person that should be fired is Blache. DET was 10 for 16 on 3rd downs at one point, my 13 yr old son can call better defense than what Blache is doing. We've talked about our 3rd down coverage, but it's gotten worse and we suck at blitzing period.

The maddening thing about Blache is that, when what he's doing during a game doesn't work, he sticks with it. And when his blitzes and coverages don't work over a period of games, he sticks with them. Honestly, he and Zorn share a trait: they believe that what they're calling is right, and that if it fails it's due only to bad understanding or execution by players. And they're both willing to live with the failure fairly indefinitely.

Good point! Come to think of it, we never see a change in the way the game is called. Gibbs 1.0 was infamous for making great halftime changes, while we are nothing close to that now. Though it's been talked about here a few times, I just realized that neither the O or the D change a thing about how they play in any game. It is the same and no adjustments are evident to my eye or anyone else's I suppose.Zorn needs to let Blache go and then he'd be next to go if he can't pull it together. I would say that unless they win out all their games, Zorn is a goner regardless.As for the players, they are average at this point. Age is caught up very fast with this time and we are on the decline. I can't tell if CP has anything left because he keeps getting hit in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage on every carry. He seems to still have a bit of speed, but is always touched before he can get going...frustrating for me to see, I can only imagine for him carrying the ball even more.

 

[Bizkiteer]

We need to face it, this team needs a huge housecleaning, not just in the front office, but in the locker room too. We better be prepared for some 4-12 seasons over the next couple of years (possibly/probably starting this season) before the team can return to repectability.

I think that is one of the major problems. Ownership or Front office has felt that we were just a player or two away, when we were not. I think all came about when we made the playoffs and they thought, man one or two more guys and we could have a legit shot. Problem is they have been great at manipulating the cap, but the downside is we keep extending guys who are slightly over their prime. So, adding one or two guys keeps us on par or lower, opposed to putting us over the top. Now, we have a bunch of guys taking up much more cap space than they really should for their production.Take all that and add shakey coaching and we have a recipe for disaster.

 

[Bizkiteer]

I sat there yesterday watching and I got angry at times, but a feeling of sadness hit me. I thought that I love my Redskins, but this teams was just plain awful. Talking about it and then realizing it is two total different things. Didn't feel like a Mack Truck hit me because there have been plenty of clues along the way, but seeing how ineffective our Defense was and how much our offense lacked just really sunk in. It is terrible to be irrelevant at a team in your division, let lone the NFL.

 

[dgreen]

I'm just getting angrier and angrier. This sucks.

My low points as a Skins fan:

1) The Super Bowl of which we shall not speak.

2) 0-7 start in 1998 after a blowout against the Vikings. Remember Darrell Green crying on the sideline?

3) Yesterday.

 

[dgreen]

So The Junkies were talking about passing out bags at next week's game. Kind of lame, if you ask me. Not very original. But, they also mentioned the possibility of doing a ticket exchange. Bring in your Skins tix for Caps or Wizards tickets. If they are offering pretty good Caps seats, I might do that.

LET'S GO CAPS!!!!!!!!!!! Opening night is Thursday!

 

[dgreen]

Fantastic

 

[B-Deep]

What are the chances Zorn gets axed during the season?

 

[Ripleys]

hoping he gets canned today...

 

[DCThunder]

hoping he gets canned today...

It's Yom Kippur. It can't happen before sundown.

 

[TankRizzo]

What are the chances Zorn gets axed during the season?

I'd say near 100% He's incapable of improvising, things aren't going to get any better.

 

[DCThunder]

I was listening to the Monday Morning QB show on ESPN980 with Kevin Sheehan (but no Andy Polly...Yom Kippur) and Czabe did a drive by from his FSR show. The conclusion they came to was that the team is AVERAGE. Not good, not great, not awful, but AVERAGE. It's not "little details" like Zorn or Blatche or Buges would lead us to believe, but players that are old and going downhill or in what is supposed to be the prime of their careers and just not getting it done or just good enough to make an NFL roster. How many of our players could make the roster of the Steelers or Giants or Patriots? Hell, how many of our players could make the Lions after they dominated the Redskins yesterday? We need to face it, this team needs a huge housecleaning, not just in the front office, but in the locker room too. We better be prepared for some 4-12 seasons over the next couple of years (possibly/probably starting this season) before the team can return to repectability.

I think average would be a great improvement at this point. They barely beat the Rams and lost to the Lions. They are on par with the worst of the NFL.I think talent wise, they are above average. It looks like the game day coaching is killing the team. And there are severe motivation issues.Like Bad_Mo mentioned, I am definately getting a bad feeling about Portis. I think he may be the one who really tears the locker room apart.

Who on this team is "above average"? Haynesworth, Cooley, London Fletcher? Who else? Don't tell me Orakpo or Portis or Moss, because one's too young and playing out of position and the other two are on the downside of their careers.

 

[Marvelous]

I was listening to the Monday Morning QB show on ESPN980 with Kevin Sheehan (but no Andy Polly...Yom Kippur) and Czabe did a drive by from his FSR show. The conclusion they came to was that the team is AVERAGE. Not good, not great, not awful, but AVERAGE. It's not "little details" like Zorn or Blatche or Buges would lead us to believe, but players that are old and going downhill or in what is supposed to be the prime of their careers and just not getting it done or just good enough to make an NFL roster. How many of our players could make the roster of the Steelers or Giants or Patriots? Hell, how many of our players could make the Lions after they dominated the Redskins yesterday? We need to face it, this team needs a huge housecleaning, not just in the front office, but in the locker room too. We better be prepared for some 4-12 seasons over the next couple of years (possibly/probably starting this season) before the team can return to repectability.

I think average would be a great improvement at this point. They barely beat the Rams and lost to the Lions. They are on par with the worst of the NFL.I think talent wise, they are above average. It looks like the game day coaching is killing the team. And there are severe motivation issues.Like Bad_Mo mentioned, I am definately getting a bad feeling about Portis. I think he may be the one who really tears the locker room apart.

Who on this team is "above average"? Haynesworth, Cooley, London Fletcher? Who else? Don't tell me Orakpo or Portis or Moss, because one's too young and playing out of position and the other two are on the downside of their careers.

I believe that if they had a good coach and the team was performing well, many more players would look above average. That would include Moss, Samuels, Rogers, Carter, Hall, and Landry. Probably Campbell and Dockery too.So far, Haynesworth has not looked anything other than average. Yet he was the best player in the NFL last year. Has he lost it? Or is the team just so bad that he looks bad too.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

I was listening to the Monday Morning QB show on ESPN980 with Kevin Sheehan (but no Andy Polly...Yom Kippur) and Czabe did a drive by from his FSR show. The conclusion they came to was that the team is AVERAGE. Not good, not great, not awful, but AVERAGE. It's not "little details" like Zorn or Blatche or Buges would lead us to believe, but players that are old and going downhill or in what is supposed to be the prime of their careers and just not getting it done or just good enough to make an NFL roster. How many of our players could make the roster of the Steelers or Giants or Patriots? Hell, how many of our players could make the Lions after they dominated the Redskins yesterday? We need to face it, this team needs a huge housecleaning, not just in the front office, but in the locker room too. We better be prepared for some 4-12 seasons over the next couple of years (possibly/probably starting this season) before the team can return to repectability.

I think average would be a great improvement at this point. They barely beat the Rams and lost to the Lions. They are on par with the worst of the NFL.I think talent wise, they are above average. It looks like the game day coaching is killing the team. And there are severe motivation issues.Like Bad_Mo mentioned, I am definately getting a bad feeling about Portis. I think he may be the one who really tears the locker room apart.

Who on this team is "above average"? Haynesworth, Cooley, London Fletcher? Who else? Don't tell me Orakpo or Portis or Moss, because one's too young and playing out of position and the other two are on the downside of their careers.

Samuels. Landry and Rogers should be, but are having horrible years. McIntosh can be but is inconsistent has hell. Carter maybe. What is obvious to me, however, is that if this team is going to win a championship, it's going at a minimum to be with new starting QB, RB's, WR's and OL's, and DE's, LB's and CB's at a minimum. That's essentially rebuilding your entire roster. Average is exactly the right label. I still think this team will end up with six or even seven wins. They always do and find a way to get a way to "not look bad".

 

[Grahamburn]

Portis is concerning me. I suppose the whole offense is cause for tremendous concern.I scrambled yesterday and plugged in Buckhalter for....Portis due to his Questionable status. Never thought I would stoop so low and bench Portis for a career backup RB.

Is it Portis that is concerning you, or the Redskins as a whole? What can you expect when you only touch the ball 13 times?I have no idea why there weren't more run plays called in this game? Clinton seemed to make a nice run or two in a row and then the Skins would completely abandon the running game. I was following the gamecast. I'd see Portis for 12 then Portis for 6 and then three incompletions in a row. Ridiculous.

 

[DCThunder]

Who got faked out of their jockstrap by Stafford on that 3rd down run that set up the first TD?

And what did anyone think of the decision to take the offensive PI to give them another 3rd down play that lead to that Stafford run? While not the ball game, it was a key play.

 

[Marvelous]

I have one thought on the Redskin's problems. I got this from my daughter's travel softball team last year. It had a number of good hitters. Yet, during tournaments, they would go into incredibly bad hitting slumps. 0ne game: 4 innings, 12 batters, 12 strikeouts. Another game: 3 innings, 10 batters, 9 strikeouts and 1 walk. In the last game of the season, after hitting the pitcher hard, 8 straight strikouts.

I think that pressure, stress, up tightness from the coach spilled over to the players. I think the coach got so wound up and it affects the girls ability to perform. And as a result, the losses just keep piling up. So Zorn may be so uptight before and during the games and that makes the players underperform.

And some of the play calling has looked desparate at times. It does not help the players or coach to relax.

 

[Marvelous]

Portis is concerning me. I suppose the whole offense is cause for tremendous concern.I scrambled yesterday and plugged in Buckhalter for....Portis due to his Questionable status. Never thought I would stoop so low and bench Portis for a career backup RB.

Is it Portis that is concerning you, or the Redskins as a whole? What can you expect when you only touch the ball 13 times?I have no idea why there weren't more run plays called in this game? Clinton seemed to make a nice run or two in a row and then the Skins would completely abandon the running game. I was following the gamecast. I'd see Portis for 12 then Portis for 6 and then three incompletions in a row. Ridiculous.

If you have not noticed, the Redskins cannot run to the right or up the middle. They only run left. So 2/3 of the playbook is not applicable. Maybe that has something to do with Portis not getting the ball as much. The Redskins have serious run blocking issues. And that was apparent coming out of the preseason.

 

[Sylira21]

What are the chances Zorn gets axed during the season?

I think he need to be fired...if for nothing else, the quote about it being "little details" that need fixing.My problem is, who the heck do you get to take over? If you go interim, then you are presumably going with someone already on the staff. Blache? He need to go even faster than Zorn. Sheman Smith? Danny Smith? Maybe we're better off with HUNTER Smith.I don't think any of the current staff is any improvement over Zorn.Going with someone outside the team - since Danny went the "new and exciting assistant coach" route with Zorn, presumably he'll go for "big name who can come in and save the team" this time around. But will any big name coach come in for a train wreck of a team and work for Danny and Vinny? Don't think so.Will Danny fire Vinny to get a coach? Doubt it. I'm imagining the two of them have convinced themselves the fault is with Zorn - I mean, look at all the great players they've assembled!Would Fassel take the job? He seems to be in need, and supposedly wouldn't have minded working for Vinny/Danny a couple of years ago.Would the Danny hire Fassel, basically admitting he made a mistake with Zorn two years ago?I'm beginning to think that Zorn may be left to twist in the wind for a while, due to their being very little in the way of replacement options.

 

[DCThunder]

It seems well established that Portis (and probably others) have a direct "hot line" to Snyder. Anytime CP doesn't like the number of carries he gets he rings up his protector and magically his carries increase. I don't think it's any coincidence that he's the #1 option inside the red zone, to the detriment of the rest of the team. Other players see this and say if he's unaccountable to the coaching staff, then why should I worry. All that coupled with "keeping it medium" is a recipie for the disaster which we are seeing unfold before our eyes.

 

[fatness]

I was listening to the Monday Morning QB show on ESPN980 with Kevin Sheehan (but no Andy Polly...Yom Kippur) and Czabe did a drive by from his FSR show. The conclusion they came to was that the team is AVERAGE. Not good, not great, not awful, but AVERAGE. It's not "little details" like Zorn or Blatche or Buges would lead us to believe, but players that are old and going downhill or in what is supposed to be the prime of their careers and just not getting it done or just good enough to make an NFL roster.

That show irritated me. Specifically, Kevin Sheehan irritated me. He used to be good when he was on with Riggins but since he got his own gig he's been nothing but a management apologist and PR guy, and equivalent to Larry Michael. Sheehan managed that whole discussion, and wouldn't tolerate opinions of the Redskins that fell below "average".If they're an average team, I'm John Holmes.I don't like the team managing the news about itself and trying to manage opinion like that. And Sheehan's a whore for doing it for money. The team is deficient in the front office, below average at coach and assistant coaches, and has a terribly thin and weak roster. But Sheehan will only say "average". This isn't honest sports opinion, folks. It's a paid guy spouting PR.

 

[dgreen]

Who got faked out of their jockstrap by Stafford on that 3rd down run that set up the first TD?

Andre Carter.And don't give me this crap that Portis isn't above average. He's still good. I don't watch him and see him as a problem. Yes, I think he has some attitude issues, but I think he's still a top talent. He needs the freakin' ball. Just because he isn't what he once was, does not make him average.And did someone say Haynesworth has been average? That's ridiculous.

 

[Marvelous]

What are the chances Zorn gets axed during the season?

I think he need to be fired...if for nothing else, the quote about it being "little details" that need fixing.My problem is, who the heck do you get to take over? If you go interim, then you are presumably going with someone already on the staff. Blache? He need to go even faster than Zorn. Sheman Smith? Danny Smith? Maybe we're better off with HUNTER Smith.I don't think any of the current staff is any improvement over Zorn.Going with someone outside the team - since Danny went the "new and exciting assistant coach" route with Zorn, presumably he'll go for "big name who can come in and save the team" this time around. But will any big name coach come in for a train wreck of a team and work for Danny and Vinny? Don't think so.Will Danny fire Vinny to get a coach? Doubt it. I'm imagining the two of them have convinced themselves the fault is with Zorn - I mean, look at all the great players they've assembled!Would Fassel take the job? He seems to be in need, and supposedly wouldn't have minded working for Vinny/Danny a couple of years ago.Would the Danny hire Fassel, basically admitting he made a mistake with Zorn two years ago?I'm beginning to think that Zorn may be left to twist in the wind for a while, due to their being very little in the way of replacement options.

I think Zorn lasts the rest of the season precisely since nothing will change if you fire him and make Smith, Blache, or Bugel interim HC. No name coach will come in the middle of the season. Maybe Pepper Rodgers is still available.Snyder has left Fassel at the alter twice (Fassel as a leading candidate when they re-hired Gibbs). After losing out to Zorn, Fassel may not want the job. I suspect all the big name coaches will decline to work with the Snyder/Cerrato front office and the Redskins will end out with another shot in the dark HC who will agree to any idiotic idea Danny and Vinny have.

 

[sinatravolta]

So who on the team can we rebuild with? I would say rebuild around - but there's there's not a great young core - big pieces are missing there.

D:

Orakpo (23)

Jarmon (21)

Landry (24)

McIntosh (26)

Hall (25)

Horton (24)

Didn't realize Rogers is already 28. I'm basically making that the cut-off, assuming it takes at least 2 years to rebuild - if you're 30 by the time we're good, that's not going to help for very long.

O:

Cooley (27)

Kelly (22)

Campbell (27) - ok I know most of you probably don't agree there - so feel free to take him off.

can hope:

D. Thomas (22)

F. Davis (23)

Obviously the most gapingly missing position is OL. We need to start drafting OL early and often. The D - assuming Jarmon turns out to be decent - is actually not that bad in talent - but obviously has holes as well.

I think the big shift needs to be to start looking to get young. They tried bringing in old talent (e.g. Bruce Smith) - that didn't work, they then moved to more like established player in prime of career (Haynesworth type) - and doesn't look like that's going to do it. So now they need to go rebuild and get young and then if/when we start to get good you can think about bringing in established guys to take it over the top.