***Official*** 2009 Washington Redskins Thread (2 Viewers)

[Marvelous]

The Redskins are 2-6 and have the look of a team just mailing it in.

PFT

From the same article on PFT,

The run defense was supposed to be the strength of the Washington Redskins. Maybe the Redskins have no strength.

 

[thayman]

You folks should read this post by 'menobrown' in another thread. It's a story by John Feinstein about Dan Snyder.

That pre-dates Gibbs and Snyder's backing off. Also, he was right. Nolan sucked as our DC. Sucked as a head coach too. I've never liked him.

I am simply amazed that anyone would actually believe Snyder has "backed off." I mean, when Largent tells us all that tells Zorno the Clown that he's being stripped of play-calling and 'I've got a signed contract saying you have to do whatever the owner tells you' - is that backing off?

Just mind-boggling to see people here continue to defend Snyder, as if is anything other than his puppet.

Nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. I think we won't get an idea of where Snyder stands in the decision making process until the off-season. If he cans Vinnie and hires someone competent to be the GM/VP of Operations I think he is moving in the right direction. This season screams Vinnie in desperation to save his job to me far more than Snyder having his finger on every little thing.

 

[Marvelous]

You folks should read this post by 'menobrown' in another thread. It's a story by John Feinstein about Dan Snyder.

That pre-dates Gibbs and Snyder's backing off. Also, he was right. Nolan sucked as our DC. Sucked as a head coach too. I've never liked him.

I am simply amazed that anyone would actually believe Snyder has "backed off." I mean, when Largent tells us all that :( tells Zorno the Clown that he's being stripped of play-calling and 'I've got a signed contract saying you have to do whatever the owner tells you' - is that backing off?

Just mind-boggling to see people here continue to defend Snyder, as if :( is anything other than his puppet.

Nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. I think we won't get an idea of where Snyder stands in the decision making process until the off-season. If he cans Vinnie and hires someone competent to be the GM/VP of Operations I think he is moving in the right direction. This season screams Vinnie in desperation to save his job to me far more than Snyder having his finger on every little thing.

It is really impossible to know how involved Snyder is in the current front office set up. Regardless, it all comes down to this: Has Snyder seen enough that he knows he has to make a change, or is there still something that tells him this setup can work with some minor adjustments. Obviously, the more involved Snyder is, the more likely he is to think it just needs some tweaking. Everyone would fall into that trap and I am sure Snyder would too.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Sally Jenkins praises Zorn and Campbell for staying professional, despite the failures and dismal future of the organization:

Yet in the second half, the Redskins returned to the field to perform with method and conviction, before falling to the Falcons, 31-17. They did so even though everyone knows this team isn't going to the playoffs without celestial intervention. They did so knowing they lack some essential pieces to be truly competitive. And they did so knowing that their coaching staff and presumably several players won't be around next season. Oddly, and maybe significantly, credit for that resolve has to go to Zorn and Campbell, the two biggest lame ducks on the team, who have been blamed and scapegoated for much of what's gone wrong.

With all the chaos going on around them, Campbell and Zorn have somehow kept their minds right, and their focus steady. They arguably have more at stake than anyone. Yet they have confined their public statements to football and talked about making steady improvement, even when critics jeered at them as Pollyannas. They haven't called news conferences to condemn or defend the owner. They haven't instituted media boycotts. They've just stood up and accepted the scrutiny and criticism for someone else's decisions. They'll both be somewhere else next season. But there are plenty of people who will be back who could learn something from them.

...

As Joe Paterno once said, "Professionalism has nothing to do with getting paid for your services." Professionalism will only be a bigger issue from now for the Redskins, as they move into the toughest part of their schedule. Apart from Dec. 13 at Oakland, there are no foreseeable wins left. They will be playing purely for their reputations. The postgame issues won't be, what play did the game swing on? It will be, did you quit or didn't you? Everyone will have to answer for himself -- or in the cases of those taking media vows of silence, not answering for himself. They know they have at least two people who will step up, and answer.

 

[fatness]

This is our quarterback.

 

[fatness]

Even in the Grits Blitz days of the late '70s, the Falcons never had more sacks in the first half than they did Sunday (five). But then, the Falcons haven't played against many offensive lines as rickety as the Redskins'. Once again, Campbell got dropped for a loss the first time he faded back to pass. In both halves, he was driven to the sideline by injuries (sternum, then ankle) - which, given the pounding he's taken this season, will probably add a few years to his life.

"Horrible" was the adjective Zorn used to describe his offense in the first 30 minutes. (Well, actually, it's not his offense anymore now that others are calling the plays, but he's still the Chief Blame-Taker.) How horrible are we talking about? The Redskins gained a mere 69 yards in the half - and 47 of them came on a pass deep down the middle to Mike Sellers. That pretty much sums up the offense's futility: It's reduced to throwing long to the blocking back.

Dan Daly

 

[fatness]

Mike Williams has an ankle injury. There goes his mobility.

 

[fatness]

But the reality of it is, as we've pointed out for some time now, these guys simply aren't very good. They can't consistently pass protect, and while Betts might be more productive than Portis because he's in good shape and always practices hard, this is not a difference-making line.

And how bad is second-year guard Chad Rinehart? He briefly started when right guard Randy Thomas went down, failed to impress (he was active in games three and four) and isn't even active these days with the line in tatters.

A prominent veteran recently told me that players still talk about the fact that management took three big receivers in the 2008 draft when most in the organization were concerned that the age and injury concerns along the line could soon derail the offense. And although Brian Orakpo already is a beast (he could be among the league's premier pass rushers for a decade or so), the failure to bolster the line in the 2008 draft might have made tackle Michael Oher a better pick in the 2009 draft. Oher was taken 23rd overall by the Baltimore Ravens.

Jason Reid

 

[fatness]

I spoke with several players last night who said that Coach Jim Zorn "went off" at halftime in the visitors' locker room at the Georgia Dome. Obviously, Zorn was frustrated about the Redskins' shoddy overall performance to that point and the 24-3 deficit. He didn't confine his loud criticism to the offensive line (the Falcons tied a franchise record with five first-half sacks), instead blasting the entire team for its execution and lack of discipline.

Zorn even reminded the Redskins "this is not Pop Warner," and he demanded they get it together as best they could after the break. The offense had its most spirited second-half performance of the season, but the defense faltered down the stretch in the 31-17 loss. Although the Redskins often have been in bad shape at halftime in Zorn's 24-game tenure, he has never displayed the emotion he did Sunday, the players said.

"He hasn't done that before, not like that, anyway," said one veteran player who requested anonymity because what occurs in the locker room is supposed to stay in the locker room. "It was just different. Maybe that's what we needed all along."

Reid

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Sally Jenkins praises Zorn and Campbell for staying professional, despite the failures and dismal future of the organization:

Yet in the second half, the Redskins returned to the field to perform with method and conviction, before falling to the Falcons, 31-17. They did so even though everyone knows this team isn't going to the playoffs without celestial intervention. They did so knowing they lack some essential pieces to be truly competitive. And they did so knowing that their coaching staff and presumably several players won't be around next season. Oddly, and maybe significantly, credit for that resolve has to go to Zorn and Campbell, the two biggest lame ducks on the team, who have been blamed and scapegoated for much of what's gone wrong.

With all the chaos going on around them, Campbell and Zorn have somehow kept their minds right, and their focus steady. They arguably have more at stake than anyone. Yet they have confined their public statements to football and talked about making steady improvement, even when critics jeered at them as Pollyannas. They haven't called news conferences to condemn or defend the owner. They haven't instituted media boycotts. They've just stood up and accepted the scrutiny and criticism for someone else's decisions. They'll both be somewhere else next season. But there are plenty of people who will be back who could learn something from them.

...

As Joe Paterno once said, "Professionalism has nothing to do with getting paid for your services." Professionalism will only be a bigger issue from now for the Redskins, as they move into the toughest part of their schedule. Apart from Dec. 13 at Oakland, there are no foreseeable wins left. They will be playing purely for their reputations. The postgame issues won't be, what play did the game swing on? It will be, did you quit or didn't you? Everyone will have to answer for himself -- or in the cases of those taking media vows of silence, not answering for himself. They know they have at least two people who will step up, and answer.

This is why I can't bash Campbell or Zorn they way that many do. They may not be great or even good ultimately at what they do, but they've never done the organization wrong by failing to work hard, being bad teammates/coaches, causing problems, etc. Neither guy is even close to being the team's biggest problem, even if you ignore the Snyder and Cerrato factor that's been heavily discussed. They're playing the best they can with the hands they've been dealt, and I respect them for that. I'm ashamed of the way that my life-long and favorite team has treated them and handled this entire situation, even as I acknowledge that neither guy is probably the answer for the team, even under the best of circumstances, in his present capacity.

 

[dgreen]

I spoke with several players last night who said that Coach Jim Zorn "went off" at halftime in the visitors' locker room at the Georgia Dome. Obviously, Zorn was frustrated about the Redskins' shoddy overall performance to that point and the 24-3 deficit. He didn't confine his loud criticism to the offensive line (the Falcons tied a franchise record with five first-half sacks), instead blasting the entire team for its execution and lack of discipline.

Zorn even reminded the Redskins "this is not Pop Warner," and he demanded they get it together as best they could after the break. The offense had its most spirited second-half performance of the season, but the defense faltered down the stretch in the 31-17 loss. Although the Redskins often have been in bad shape at halftime in Zorn's 24-game tenure, he has never displayed the emotion he did Sunday, the players said.

"He hasn't done that before, not like that, anyway," said one veteran player who requested anonymity because what occurs in the locker room is supposed to stay in the locker room. "It was just different. Maybe that's what we needed all along."

Reid

Timely. Look, I'm glad he did that, but why wait so long? Also, a big problem with this team is being ready when the game starts. They are rarely intense and focused and disciplined when the game starts. It always takes something during the game to get them going.

 

[buster c]

Czabe

“Look, we lost the game today. I GET that.”

- Jim Zorn, pumping the breaks on his selective post game enthusiasm over what went “right” in the Skins 31-17 loss to the Falcons.

Okay then, that's a start. He does “get it” that losing is bad. We can build from here.

But there's a ton of work still left.

Where to start?

Well, let's start with Zorn. Is it me, or does watching him on the sidelines make you cringe? I mean, I have never, ever, ever, seen an NFL coach who has been so thoroughly drained of “coaching life force” like this.

Sure, I've seen awful coaches, who were almost CERTAIN that they were soon to be fired.

But they still stalked the sidelines, ranting, raving, tilting at imaginary windmills and yelling at the refs on occasion.

Zorn? It's surreal. Nothing.

In fact, he has what I am simply going to call from now on: “Zorn Face.”

Zorn Face: adj. - A facial expression of false interest, concern, or thoughtfulness. Usually highlighted by a steadily furrowed forehead. Used to conceal the fact that you really don't give a crap either way, since you get paid the same just to stand there.

(Example: “You know, Bill, that all-staff meeting on email etiquette was a real waste of time. Still, I just put on my “Zorn Face” and made it look like I was totally engaged.”)

That said, there's only three things I see wrong with this team.

1.They aren't that talented.

2.They don't play very hard.

3.They have poor or non-existent coaching.

Other than that.....

Has anybody else noticed that the guys who keep saying “we've got talent here...” are the guys with the biggest contracts? Haynesworth, Portis, Hall...

Zorn told Sonny on the post-game show that he was “impressed” with how his defense “popped” Michael Turner a few times. Sonny, non-plussed, then said: “Yeah coach, but 168 yards....” Parried Zorn: “But most of that was just on two runs....” Right. Let me say it one more time: THOSE YARDS GET CHARGED TO YOUR ROOM TOO, UPON CHECK OUT!

Is the running attack better – at this point – without Clinton Portis? Well, duh, yeah. But only marginally. Betts gives a quicker chop-chop with his legs through the hole, but he's only a slight upgrade over CP. Plus, just look at the line...

Speaking of..... how great is it (insert sarcasm before “great”) that our line now includes... Mike Williams (plucked off Derrick Dockery's couch at 410 pounds with 2 years of rust), Will Montgomery (who is only playing because 3rd round pick Chad Reinhardt is a total bust), and former Bossier-Shreveport Battle Wings and Edmonton Eskimo D'Anthony Batiste. Fun times!

PS: Center Casey Rabach can't play anymore. Pssst. Keep it quiet. We've got 8 games left still.

This great defense we have, once again failed to produce a score. The last DFT for the Skins came in 2007! For perspective, consider this: the Saints have 5 pick six's this year alone! You would need to go back to the Lavar Arrington pick-six against Carolina that turned around the one Marty year to cover the last 6 skins pick-sixes.

Albert Haynesworth came off the bye week and promptly committed an off-sides penalty. Added another one when Matt Ryan all but shouted out: “Let's make the fat kid jump!” Fabulous.

People say this team is “un-disciplined.” Well, yeah. No players ever get ripped by the coaches. No players ever get benched by the coaches. No players ever get cut from the team. (Okay, they benched Horton, and cut Mason. Otherwise, have fun boys!)

The first snagged fabric of the Magicolor Dreamcoat that is the “Bingo Lewis” Offensive Play-Calling Relay Team has appeared. Near the goal line, you could see Zorn mouth the words “I wanted to throw” when they ran. Later, they called timeout on 4th and 1 inch (waste) and threw un-successfully to Mike Sellers. When asked, Zorn said: “Stump Mitchell designed the play, Sherm Lewis called it. And I made the decision to go for it.” With costume credit to Angela Silverstein, script enhancement by Bert Rossman..... They showed Zorn on the sidelines right after that. Zorn Face. I really wanted him to sheepishly point his finger up in the air. Psst. Sherm's call. Not me.

How is DeAngelo Hall working out for Redskins fans? Uh huh. Not like I didn't try to warn everybody. Aside from his crap tackling, he's really not shutting guys down either. His team-hi three picks included two pop-ups off deflections.

LaRon Landry is regressing. That is sad. He was one of my favorite players. I think back to how insanely devastating he and Sean Taylor were together. He seems lost now. One caller said on the post-game show, that ever since the opening night trucking he took from Brandon Jacobs in 2008, Landry hasn't been the same. Hmm. Interesting theory.

The fake coaching, and weekly mini-dramas begin continue with Denver coming to town Sunday. Should be fun.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Czabe

In fact, he has what I am simply going to call from now on: “Zorn Face.”

I didn't listen to him much last year, but was Czabe making these same rants and complaints last year when we first heard the "Stay medium" mantra? If not, this is complaining just to complain and sounds like it's just the complaint du jour for Czabe.

Zorn has preached "stay medium" since he got here and, as shocking as it may seem, he apparently practices what he preaches. If he were flipping out every play, Czabe would be tired of that now, too.

 

[Sidewinder16]

Tank McNamara will be taking shots at Snyder/the 'Skins this week, too.

 

[fatness]

Czabe

People say this team is “un-disciplined.” Well, yeah. No players ever get ripped by the coaches. No players ever get benched by the coaches. No players ever get cut from the team. (Okay, they benched Horton, and cut Mason. Otherwise, have fun boys!)

I don't think the coaches have the authority to bench certain players. Not when they know those players have an open line of communication with the owner, who acquired those players and who employs those coaches. I think we just saw that with Randle El on punt return duties in the last couple weeks --- he lost the job, then suddenly had it back. Coaches aren't going to scream at and bench players who are going to then call the owner.

 

[TankRizzo]

No LJ talk in here yet?

 

[fatness]

This is why I can't bash Campbell or Zorn they way that many do. They may not be great or even good ultimately at what they do, but they've never done the organization wrong by failing to work hard, being bad teammates/coaches, causing problems, etc. Neither guy is even close to being the team's biggest problem, even if you ignore the Snyder and Cerrato factor that's been heavily discussed. They're playing the best they can with the hands they've been dealt, and I respect them for that. I'm ashamed of the way that my life-long and favorite team has treated them and handled this entire situation, even as I acknowledge that neither guy is probably the answer for the team, even under the best of circumstances, in his present capacity.

I agree with this. We'll never know how Campbell would do behind a decent O-line with a decent coach for a couple years. He'll be gone well before those situations ever coincide here. Campbell's tough, thoroughly decent, uncomplaining, and is taking a beating this year like the beating that killed Ramsey's psyche and career. He's going to get crippled before the year is out and he won't complain about it. Zorn, well, I think we do know about. He's completely unqualified to be head coach. He's not even qualified to be OC, because he would not give up being the QB's coach and the 2 jobs together are too much for him to handle. At most he can do one job, and that job is probably QB coach. But he's a decent man, publicly embarassed by his incompetent employer and superior, who is doing the best he can. There's something admirable in that. It's hard to believe there are 8 games left. This feels like torture.

 

[buster c]

Czabe

In fact, he has what I am simply going to call from now on: “Zorn Face.”

I didn't listen to him much last year, but was Czabe making these same rants and complaints last year when we first heard the "Stay medium" mantra? If not, this is complaining just to complain and sounds like it's just the complaint du jour for Czabe.

Zorn has preached "stay medium" since he got here and, as shocking as it may seem, he apparently practices what he preaches. If he were flipping out every play, Czabe would be tired of that now, too.

I think the better angles from his rant are those I bolded (Rabach, Deangela, & the fat kid). I agree that there is no point to continue to bash Zorno the Clown. He's likable and affable. As are most clowns.

 

[dgreen]

Czabe

People say this team is “un-disciplined.” Well, yeah. No players ever get ripped by the coaches. No players ever get benched by the coaches. No players ever get cut from the team. (Okay, they benched Horton, and cut Mason. Otherwise, have fun boys!)

I don't think the coaches have the authority to bench certain players. Not when they know those players have an open line of communication with the owner, who acquired those players and who employs those coaches. I think we just saw that with Randle El on punt return duties in the last couple weeks --- he lost the job, then suddenly had it back. Coaches aren't going to scream at and bench players who are going to then call the owner.

I never got the impression that ARE still wanted to return punts. He certainly doesn't act like he wants to. I can't see him going above the coaches so he can continue to return punts. Now, that doesn't mean someone above the coaches didn't tell Zorn to stick ARE back there; I just don't think ARE was the one who would initiate that decision.The coaches are all gone at the end of the season. Right now, I don't think they have an incentive to start who Snyederatto wants them to start. If that's why playing time is the way it is, then I still blame the coaches to a large extent. At some point, you have to stand up and make a decision based on what you think is best for the football. If they aren't willing to do that, then I can only cry for them so much.

 

[Marvelous]

Czabe

People say this team is “un-disciplined.” Well, yeah. No players ever get ripped by the coaches. No players ever get benched by the coaches. No players ever get cut from the team. (Okay, they benched Horton, and cut Mason. Otherwise, have fun boys!)

I don't think the coaches have the authority to bench certain players. Not when they know those players have an open line of communication with the owner, who acquired those players and who employs those coaches. I think we just saw that with Randle El on punt return duties in the last couple weeks --- he lost the job, then suddenly had it back. Coaches aren't going to scream at and bench players who are going to then call the owner.

I never got the impression that ARE still wanted to return punts. He certainly doesn't act like he wants to. I can't see him going above the coaches so he can continue to return punts. Now, that doesn't mean someone above the coaches didn't tell Zorn to stick ARE back there; I just don't think ARE was the one who would initiate that decision.The coaches are all gone at the end of the season. Right now, I don't think they have an incentive to start who Snyederatto wants them to start. If that's why playing time is the way it is, then I still blame the coaches to a large extent. At some point, you have to stand up and make a decision based on what you think is best for the football. If they aren't willing to do that, then I can only cry for them so much.

One thought on playing time: There are only 53 players on the roster. The coaches see what everyone does in practice. More than likely, putting in a backup will not hlep the results. Thomas and Kelly are both probably better than Mitchell as the starting wr. And the Redskins average 1 catch a game from their starting wr. The backup OL have shown they are worse than the starters. People clamoring for Aldridge and Mason need to face the fact that they aren't really NFL caliber players. IF the team can't get Campbell to throw to slightly open recievers, Moss to stop dropping passes, Thomas or Kelley to get open and catch passes, or get Williams, Heyer, and Rabach to pass or run block, this team is going to stink.

 

[fatness]

I never got the impression that ARE still wanted to return punts.

When news first filtered out that he was being replaced on punt returns, he went to Zorn's office and talked to him about it. Then suddenly he wasn't replaced. I believe there's a link to the news story in this thread. To me that says Randle El was upset about being replaced on punt returns.

 

[dgreen]

I never got the impression that ARE still wanted to return punts.

When news first filtered out that he was being replaced on punt returns, he went to Zorn's office and talked to him about it. Then suddenly he wasn't replaced. I believe there's a link to the news story in this thread. To me that says Randle El was upset about being replaced on punt returns.

Could have just as easily been ARE saying, "Cool, I agree it's time to give someone else a shot," and Zorn didn't know what he was talking about. It also could have been ARE saying, "I'm ok with either decision because I just want to help the team, but I wish I didn't have to hear about it from the media," and, again, Zorn didn't know what he was talking about. Zorn's story was that that decision was never made by the coaching staff. It was another case of "unnamed sources" telling reporters about the upcoming change. It could have just been a misunderstanding by the source in regards to Hall and Moss getting more opportunities but Zorn/Danny Smith always intended to keep ARE in the loop. I think I even remember hearing Hall say that it was news to him when asked by a reporter early last week.In other words, something as simple and small as who is returning punts is, on its own, a huge mess within the organization.

 

[buster c]

Czabe

People say this team is “un-disciplined.” Well, yeah. No players ever get ripped by the coaches. No players ever get benched by the coaches. No players ever get cut from the team. (Okay, they benched Horton, and cut Mason. Otherwise, have fun boys!)

I don't think the coaches have the authority to bench certain players. Not when they know those players have an open line of communication with the owner, who acquired those players and who employs those coaches. I think we just saw that with Randle El on punt return duties in the last couple weeks --- he lost the job, then suddenly had it back. Coaches aren't going to scream at and bench players who are going to then call the owner.

I never got the impression that ARE still wanted to return punts. He certainly doesn't act like he wants to. I can't see him going above the coaches so he can continue to return punts. Now, that doesn't mean someone above the coaches didn't tell Zorn to stick ARE back there; I just don't think ARE was the one who would initiate that decision.The coaches are all gone at the end of the season. Right now, I don't think they have an incentive to start who Snyederatto wants them to start. If that's why playing time is the way it is, then I still blame the coaches to a large extent. At some point, you have to stand up and make a decision based on what you think is best for the football. If they aren't willing to do that, then I can only cry for them so much.

One thought on playing time: There are only 53 players on the roster. The coaches see what everyone does in practice. More than likely, putting in a backup will not hlep the results. Thomas and Kelly are both probably better than Mitchell as the starting wr. And the Redskins average 1 catch a game from their starting wr. The backup OL have shown they are worse than the starters. People clamoring for Aldridge and Mason need to face the fact that they aren't really NFL caliber players. IF the team can't get Campbell to throw to slightly open recievers, Moss to stop dropping passes, Thomas or Kelley to get open and catch passes, or get Williams, Heyer, and Rabach to pass or run block, this team is going to stink.

whoever said what I bolded above is right, IMO. and it applies to those with the direct line to Snyder as well as those who have been picked high (talking about #11 & #12. for some reason, Reinhart does not qualify). But I refuse to believe that #11 & #12 are better than Marko. Hopefully we'll get a chance to see and I was pleased to see him get in the game. Of course, he had a professional QB toss him his 1st ball (Collins).

 

[Sidewinder16]

I never got the impression that ARE still wanted to return punts.

When news first filtered out that he was being replaced on punt returns, he went to Zorn's office and talked to him about it. Then suddenly he wasn't replaced. I believe there's a link to the news story in this thread. To me that says Randle El was upset about being replaced on punt returns.

Could have just as easily been ARE saying, "Cool, I agree it's time to give someone else a shot," and Zorn didn't know what he was talking about. It also could have been ARE saying, "I'm ok with either decision because I just want to help the team, but I wish I didn't have to hear about it from the media," and, again, Zorn didn't know what he was talking about. Zorn's story was that that decision was never made by the coaching staff. It was another case of "unnamed sources" telling reporters about the upcoming change. It could have just been a misunderstanding by the source in regards to Hall and Moss getting more opportunities but Zorn/Danny Smith always intended to keep ARE in the loop. I think I even remember hearing Hall say that it was news to him when asked by a reporter early last week.

In other words, something as simple and small as who is returning punts is, on its own, a huge mess within the organization.

The first print report of this was Jason Reid on RI. The post is entitled "Redskins promote Hall, demote Randle El", but if you read it, there is nothing in the post that really warrants the use of the terms "promote" and "demote". I think dgreen is right, in that Reid got wind of something, Zorn was asked about it and then it got blown out of proportion. The Times tried to play level-headed journalists, but that seemed to go largely ignored.

 

[dgreen]

But I refuse to believe that #11 & #12 are better than Marko.

At this point, I have a hard time believing that too. But, I've read Keim write that Marko's "inability to run more than a couple routes" is what keeps him benched. He looked like he ran some good slants yesterday. The fade is probably one of his routes. I don't see how anyone can NOT run a fly pattern so he's got at least three routes down. Moss and Thomas should probably get the screens, but I'm guessing Marko can run a route where the route is to take a couple steps backwards and catch. And, with all I've been hearing about lazy routes by Skins WRs, I don't see how he could be worse than the others at posts and hooks and outs.

 

[dgreen]

So there's actual talk of LJ coming here if Portis is going to miss a couple games? That's so freakin' laughable if true. BRILLIANT!!! Can't you just see the future of this team improving with every transaction?

 

[dgreen]

So, more injuries. Horton is out either 4-6 weeks or 4-6 months (I'm kind of confused by that). Mike Williams is out a couple weeks. Portis probably won't play this week. Do we see Levi Jones next week?

 

[fatness]

There'll be a new starting left tackle Sunday against Denver: Levi Jones. Heyer will move back to right tackle while Mike Williams is out

Jason ReidAnd signing Larry Johnson would be laughable except that, um, they have no capable RB if Betts goes down.

 

[fatness]

The first print report of this was Jason Reid on RI. The post is entitled "Redskins promote Hall, demote Randle El", but if you read it, there is nothing in the post that really warrants the use of the terms "promote" and "demote". I think dgreen is right, in that Reid got wind of something, Zorn was asked about it and then it got blown out of proportion. The Times tried to play level-headed journalists, but that seemed to go largely ignored.

Zorn is quoted in that article as saying the returning responsibilities would be flipped --- in other words that Randle El was going to the bottom of the pile. That's pretty clear about describing a promotion and a demotion.

The Redskins plan to make a major change on special teams for their upcoming game against the Atlanta Falcons, demoting punt returner Antwaan Randle El and elevating DeAngelo Hall to the primary role, a league source said today.

Danny Smith, special teams coordinator, will focus this week on helping Hall prepare to handle the majority of returns in Sunday's game at the Georgia Dome, and Santana Moss also is expected to continue as a change-of-pace returner. Although the Redskins still plan to have Randle El involved in the return game in a reduced role, they need more production out of the position and believe Hall is their best option.

When asked about the move after practice at Redskins Park, Coach Jim Zorn stressed he has not made a final decision but acknowledged Hall would be involved in a potential change. "One of the things that's going to happen is we're going to get another guy involved in punt returning and that's going to be DeAngelo," Zorn said. "We're going to try to get him more and more reps. I've been trying to get Santana at least a couple of punt returns a game and I'm going to continue that. You're still going to see Antwaan out there but it'll be a little more flipped as far as the involvement. You're going to see more and more" of Hall.

Someone told Zorn not to do this.

 

[fatness]

Washington Freedom Ad: Every Skins fan should go buy today's newspaper! Half- page ad in the Sports section for the Washington Freedom, women's pro soccer team.

Among the "freedoms" one can enjoy at their games:

"Freedom of Speech and Self Expression, Including the right to Create Signs and Banners and Bring Them into the Stadium!"

"Full Media Access and Welcoming of All Coverage, Positive or Hostile!"

"You Will Not Be Sued if for Some Reason You Must Default on Your Payments ..."

 

[fatness]

The whole DeAngelo Hall/Mike Smith+Falcons dustup on the sideline, including what looks like a punch by Mike Smith.

 

[fatness]

"Sonny, on the pregame show yesterday with me, you said something that I've never heard you say as definitively as you said it yesterday," Sheehan began. "You in essence said that this whole mess is really on Vinny's watch, that Vinny Cerrato's been making the decisions ever since he got the title promotion, that the decisions have been his and basically his alone. Will you sort of describe that a little bit more this morning?"

"You know, I think Joe Gibbs and Dan Snyder felt that Vinny had earned the opportunity to lead this football team, and they gave him that," Jurgensen said. "And Gibbs agreed with Snyder. And they gave him the opportunity to make the decisions. And I think, from my understanding, it was his decision to bring in another set of eyes, it was his decision to have [sherm Lewis] call the plays, and I think these have been his decisions. He's living and dying by the success of this football team. He's tied to it. And he realizes that. And I think he would tell you that. You know, it's got to be successful for him to be here and continue in this position."

Well, it hasn't been successful. And if Sonny's understanding of things is correct, a lot of Redskins fans are now very, very happy. Pollin followed up, asking Jurgensen to assume for a minute that the Redskins win two more games and finish 4-12, which is about the right over-under at this point. In that scenario, he asked, "Can you pretty much confidently say that he's gone?"

"Yeah, I would think so, I would think so," Jurgensen said, as many listeners heard the sounds of heavenly chimes and angels singing HTTR. "I like Vinny, I don't want to....This is what is going to happen, I think. I think it's obvious that we've fired six or seven coaches, we've given him an opportunity. That's not to say Vinny wouldn't be here, but they could give Vinny something else."

"I know what I have been told, I know what is supposed to be the situation, and the situation is that these are Vinny's calls," Jurgensen said. "I'm saying that he is tied to this thing, and it's got to happen. His experiment with Sherm Lewis has got to be successful."

Dan Steinberg

 

[southeastjerome]

Sally Jenkins praises Zorn and Campbell for staying professional, despite the failures and dismal future of the organization:

Yet in the second half, the Redskins returned to the field to perform with method and conviction, before falling to the Falcons, 31-17. They did so even though everyone knows this team isn't going to the playoffs without celestial intervention. They did so knowing they lack some essential pieces to be truly competitive. And they did so knowing that their coaching staff and presumably several players won't be around next season. Oddly, and maybe significantly, credit for that resolve has to go to Zorn and Campbell, the two biggest lame ducks on the team, who have been blamed and scapegoated for much of what's gone wrong.

With all the chaos going on around them, Campbell and Zorn have somehow kept their minds right, and their focus steady. They arguably have more at stake than anyone. Yet they have confined their public statements to football and talked about making steady improvement, even when critics jeered at them as Pollyannas. They haven't called news conferences to condemn or defend the owner. They haven't instituted media boycotts. They've just stood up and accepted the scrutiny and criticism for someone else's decisions. They'll both be somewhere else next season. But there are plenty of people who will be back who could learn something from them.

...

As Joe Paterno once said, "Professionalism has nothing to do with getting paid for your services." Professionalism will only be a bigger issue from now for the Redskins, as they move into the toughest part of their schedule. Apart from Dec. 13 at Oakland, there are no foreseeable wins left. They will be playing purely for their reputations. The postgame issues won't be, what play did the game swing on? It will be, did you quit or didn't you? Everyone will have to answer for himself -- or in the cases of those taking media vows of silence, not answering for himself. They know they have at least two people who will step up, and answer.

This is why I can't bash Campbell or Zorn they way that many do. They may not be great or even good ultimately at what they do, but they've never done the organization wrong by failing to work hard, being bad teammates/coaches, causing problems, etc. Neither guy is even close to being the team's biggest problem, even if you ignore the Snyder and Cerrato factor that's been heavily discussed. They're playing the best they can with the hands they've been dealt, and I respect them for that. I'm ashamed of the way that my life-long and favorite team has treated them and handled this entire situation, even as I acknowledge that neither guy is probably the answer for the team, even under the best of circumstances, in his present capacity.

Exactly. Campbell has been tossed into a lot of adversity and he's always remained extremely professional. I don't think its likely, but I'd like to see him go somewhere where he can be successful.

 

[jbz]

This is why I can't bash Campbell or Zorn they way that many do. They may not be great or even good ultimately at what they do, but they've never done the organization wrong by failing to work hard, being bad teammates/coaches, causing problems, etc. Neither guy is even close to being the team's biggest problem, even if you ignore the Snyder and Cerrato factor that's been heavily discussed. They're playing the best they can with the hands they've been dealt, and I respect them for that. I'm ashamed of the way that my life-long and favorite team has treated them and handled this entire situation, even as I acknowledge that neither guy is probably the answer for the team, even under the best of circumstances, in his present capacity.

I agree with this. We'll never know how Campbell would do behind a decent O-line with a decent coach for a couple years. He'll be gone well before those situations ever coincide here. Campbell's tough, thoroughly decent, uncomplaining, and is taking a beating this year like the beating that killed Ramsey's psyche and career. He's going to get crippled before the year is out and he won't complain about it. Zorn, well, I think we do know about. He's completely unqualified to be head coach. He's not even qualified to be OC, because he would not give up being the QB's coach and the 2 jobs together are too much for him to handle. At most he can do one job, and that job is probably QB coach. But he's a decent man, publicly embarassed by his incompetent employer and superior, who is doing the best he can. There's something admirable in that. It's hard to believe there are 8 games left. This feels like torture.

We actually do know how Campbell would do behind a decent OL....not much different. He wouldn't be making as many mistakes in regards to turnover, but he will always be gun shy and just not a decisive QB. When the OL was playing lights out last year in the beginning, Campbell still wasn't making a ton of plays. But he was playing within the system and letting Portis and the D do most of the lifting. Once the team requires Campbell to lift them up and make them better, he fails. He seems like a nice kid and he has handled most of this fiasco rather professionally (I'd still like to see him take some blame for once, he always deflects it off somehow), but it doesn't change the fact that he's just an average QB at best. He'll be the new Byron Leftwich.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

This is why I can't bash Campbell or Zorn they way that many do. They may not be great or even good ultimately at what they do, but they've never done the organization wrong by failing to work hard, being bad teammates/coaches, causing problems, etc. Neither guy is even close to being the team's biggest problem, even if you ignore the Snyder and Cerrato factor that's been heavily discussed.

They're playing the best they can with the hands they've been dealt, and I respect them for that. I'm ashamed of the way that my life-long and favorite team has treated them and handled this entire situation, even as I acknowledge that neither guy is probably the answer for the team, even under the best of circumstances, in his present capacity.

I agree with this. We'll never know how Campbell would do behind a decent O-line with a decent coach for a couple years. He'll be gone well before those situations ever coincide here. Campbell's tough, thoroughly decent, uncomplaining, and is taking a beating this year like the beating that killed Ramsey's psyche and career. He's going to get crippled before the year is out and he won't complain about it.

Zorn, well, I think we do know about. He's completely unqualified to be head coach. He's not even qualified to be OC, because he would not give up being the QB's coach and the 2 jobs together are too much for him to handle. At most he can do one job, and that job is probably QB coach. But he's a decent man, publicly embarassed by his incompetent employer and superior, who is doing the best he can. There's something admirable in that.

It's hard to believe there are 8 games left. This feels like torture.

We actually do know how Campbell would do behind a decent OL....not much different. He wouldn't be making as many mistakes in regards to turnover, but he will always be gun shy and just not a decisive QB. When the OL was playing lights out last year in the beginning, Campbell still wasn't making a ton of plays. But he was playing within the system and letting Portis and the D do most of the lifting. Once the team requires Campbell to lift them up and make them better, he fails. He seems like a nice kid and he has handled most of this fiasco rather professionally (I'd still like to see him take some blame for once, he always deflects it off somehow), but it doesn't change the fact that he's just an average QB at best. He'll be the new Byron Leftwich.

A WCO system that was just starting to be installed and that everyone says takes at least a year to get on top of. Just sayin'. Yeah, yeah, there's always one more excuse for Campbell, but this is what happens when you make so much of a hash out of managing your team that everything's up in the air all the time.

 

[Sidewinder16]

The first print report of this was Jason Reid on RI. The post is entitled "Redskins promote Hall, demote Randle El", but if you read it, there is nothing in the post that really warrants the use of the terms "promote" and "demote". I think dgreen is right, in that Reid got wind of something, Zorn was asked about it and then it got blown out of proportion. The Times tried to play level-headed journalists, but that seemed to go largely ignored.

Zorn is quoted in that article as saying the returning responsibilities would be flipped --- in other words that Randle El was going to the bottom of the pile. That's pretty clear about describing a promotion and a demotion.

The Redskins plan to make a major change on special teams for their upcoming game against the Atlanta Falcons, demoting punt returner Antwaan Randle El and elevating DeAngelo Hall to the primary role, a league source said today.

Danny Smith, special teams coordinator, will focus this week on helping Hall prepare to handle the majority of returns in Sunday's game at the Georgia Dome, and Santana Moss also is expected to continue as a change-of-pace returner. Although the Redskins still plan to have Randle El involved in the return game in a reduced role, they need more production out of the position and believe Hall is their best option.

When asked about the move after practice at Redskins Park, Coach Jim Zorn stressed he has not made a final decision but acknowledged Hall would be involved in a potential change. "One of the things that's going to happen is we're going to get another guy involved in punt returning and that's going to be DeAngelo," Zorn said. "We're going to try to get him more and more reps. I've been trying to get Santana at least a couple of punt returns a game and I'm going to continue that. You're still going to see Antwaan out there but it'll be a little more flipped as far as the involvement. You're going to see more and more" of Hall.

Someone told Zorn not to do this.

And yet we saw Hall on 2 PRs and Randle El on 1.

 

[jbz]

True, but let's not try to shade our eyes from the truth or just make another excuse for him. JC is just not a very good QB. Good QBs can handle a new system just fine. Good QBs can elevate the play of those around them. Good QBs come through in the clutch. JC is just not a good QB. He's a serviceable one, but trying to plug him into a WCO only highlighted his faults.

Him NOT throwing to Santana Moss on the pump and go vs Philly on MNF pretty much sums up his career. The opportunity was there, he just either a) was too scared to take it or b) didn't see it. Either way he sucks.

 

[Sidewinder16]

The whole DeAngelo Hall/Mike Smith+Falcons dustup on the sideline, including what looks like a punch by Mike Smith.

When I first rewatched the video (it's up at nfl.com) I thought the same thing. But the more I see it, I think Smith was just yanking his arm out of someone's grasp (ETA: Steinberg was also right in that there's no reason for Smith to be in the middle of that; what I don't get is why he then takes a shot at Zorn for not being in the middle of it ). What I don't understand is why that Atlanta assistant coach grabbed Hall the way he did and wouldn't let go.Hall gets stupid points for stepping onto the other teams sideline and yappin it up with the opponents, but to his credit when it really started escalating, he really doesn't show anything that could be construed as an attack on someone else. Steinberg is right in that, at the very least, this is a 50-50 fault thing with the Falcon's sideline needing at least as much blame as Hall.

 

[dgreen]

The whole DeAngelo Hall/Mike Smith+Falcons dustup on the sideline, including what looks like a punch by Mike Smith.

When I first rewatched the video (it's up at nfl.com) I thought the same thing. But the more I see it, I think Smith was just yanking his arm out of someone's grasp (ETA: Steinberg was also right in that there's no reason for Smith to be in the middle of that; what I don't get is why he then takes a shot at Zorn for not being in the middle of it ). What I don't understand is why that Atlanta assistant coach grabbed Hall the way he did and wouldn't let go.Hall gets stupid points for stepping onto the other teams sideline and yappin it up with the opponents, but to his credit when it really started escalating, he really doesn't show anything that could be construed as an attack on someone else. Steinberg is right in that, at the very least, this is a 50-50 fault thing with the Falcon's sideline needing at least as much blame as Hall.

Lavar was upset that more Skins weren't over there helping Hall. A couple guys eventually came over, but Lavar wanted all 11 defenders there...especially Landry. He was wondering why Landry started it all with the late hit and then wasn't there to help Hall, who was supposedly there to help Landry.I haven't rewatched it, so I'm not sure if Lavar's view of it is correct that very few Skins were there to defend their teammate.

 

[Marvelous]

True, but let's not try to shade our eyes from the truth or just make another excuse for him. JC is just not a very good QB. Good QBs can handle a new system just fine. Good QBs can elevate the play of those around them. Good QBs come through in the clutch. JC is just not a good QB. He's a serviceable one, but trying to plug him into a WCO only highlighted his faults. Him NOT throwing to Santana Moss on the pump and go vs Philly on MNF pretty much sums up his career. The opportunity was there, he just either a) was too scared to take it or b) didn't see it. Either way he sucks.

I think that for whatever potential Campbell has, it will never be realized due to the instability of the Redskin organization. Going from Gibbs to Saunders to Zorn in 5 years has basically ruined Campbell. I cannot think of a single star quarterback who had 3 different systems in their first 5 years in the league.At this point, I think Campbell's upside potential will be a career like Gus Ferrotte or Tommy Maddox. A back up qb who may get a shot to start a few game or a season sometime later in his career.

 

[Sidewinder16]

The whole DeAngelo Hall/Mike Smith+Falcons dustup on the sideline, including what looks like a punch by Mike Smith.

When I first rewatched the video (it's up at nfl.com) I thought the same thing. But the more I see it, I think Smith was just yanking his arm out of someone's grasp (ETA: Steinberg was also right in that there's no reason for Smith to be in the middle of that; what I don't get is why he then takes a shot at Zorn for not being in the middle of it ). What I don't understand is why that Atlanta assistant coach grabbed Hall the way he did and wouldn't let go.Hall gets stupid points for stepping onto the other teams sideline and yappin it up with the opponents, but to his credit when it really started escalating, he really doesn't show anything that could be construed as an attack on someone else. Steinberg is right in that, at the very least, this is a 50-50 fault thing with the Falcon's sideline needing at least as much blame as Hall.

Lavar was upset that more Skins weren't over there helping Hall. A couple guys eventually came over, but Lavar wanted all 11 defenders there...especially Landry. He was wondering why Landry started it all with the late hit and then wasn't there to help Hall, who was supposedly there to help Landry.I haven't rewatched it, so I'm not sure if Lavar's view of it is correct that very few Skins were there to defend their teammate.

If you watch it close, it all happens pretty quick, and I'm not convinced most of the D hadn't basically turned their backs to the play (once it was clear Ryan was out of bounds) before it got heated up. That's not to say that they were sprinting over when they finally realized what was going on (~10 seconds elapse between when the Falcon assistant grabs Hall and when Landry comes back), but I don't think anyone was just standing around watching Deangelo get swallowed by a mob.As soon as Landry and Ryan get off the ground they are heading straight back to the field. Landry does brush by Hall (they are the only 2 'Skins near the sideline at this point; the next closest players at the end of the play, Doughty and Carter, appear to have turned away well before the "melee" starts), and it looks like he tries to grab and pull him toward the field a little, but at the time Hall is just jawing with a couple Atlanta defenders. Almost as soon as Landry turns his back is when the grabbing and pushing and shoving (and Mike Smith) come in to play. Tryon is the first one to step in because it appears that he's the only one still watching the sideline.

 

[fatness]

hip hip

 

[fatness]

The relevant part of Mike Florio's power rankings at PFT:

26. Oakland Raiders (2-6) (Last week: 25). The psychological evaluation of coach Tom Cable will begin and end with the following question: "Tell me why in the hell you took this job?"

27. Kansas City Chiefs (1-7) (Last week: 26). Larry Johnson got what he wanted.

28. Washington Redskins (2-6) (Last week: 28). A 2-14 finish isn't out of the question.

29. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1-7) (Last week: 32). It's a good thing the Bucs waited until Josh Freeman was ready. They might have lost their first seven games if they had rushed him into action.

30. St. Louis Rams (1-7) (Last week: 30). The Saints. Are coming.

31. Detroit Lions (1-7) (Last week: 27). Coming soon, the Browns and Lions will battle for the right to screw up the first overall pick in the draft.

32. Cleveland Browns (1-7) (Last week: 31). There's nothing like a quiet, uneventful bye week to help stabilize a horrible team.

 

[fatness]

Tracee Hamilton

These are veteran guys, doing silly things in Week 8 of what may be one of the worst seasons in memory. Brian Orakpo had two sacks Sunday; he has 5 1/2 for the season and is having a great year. I didn't see any dancing or posing from him.

"I'm holding back," the rookie said. "It's like getting a home run when you're down 10-3. There's no point celebrating when you're down."

Future team leader there.

 

[Sidewinder16]

The relevant part of Mike Florio's power rankings at PFT:

26. Oakland Raiders (2-6) (Last week: 25). The psychological evaluation of coach Tom Cable will begin and end with the following question: "Tell me why in the hell you took this job?"

27. Kansas City Chiefs (1-7) (Last week: 26). Larry Johnson got what he wanted.

28. Washington Redskins (2-6) (Last week: 28). A 2-14 finish isn't out of the question.

29. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1-7) (Last week: 32). It's a good thing the Bucs waited until Josh Freeman was ready. They might have lost their first seven games if they had rushed him into action.

30. St. Louis Rams (1-7) (Last week: 30). The Saints. Are coming.

31. Detroit Lions (1-7) (Last week: 27). Coming soon, the Browns and Lions will battle for the right to screw up the first overall pick in the draft.

32. Cleveland Browns (1-7) (Last week: 31). There's nothing like a quiet, uneventful bye week to help stabilize a horrible team.

Tampa still has games against Carolina and Seattle, St. Louis plays Seattle and Tennessee and the Browns play KC and Oakland. Certainly some potential wins in there. Detroit has a pretty tough remaining schedule, but they have the head-to-head tiebreaker over the 'Skins so if they can pull off one win......#1 pick, here we come!!!

 

[Marvelous]

The relevant part of Mike Florio's power rankings at PFT:

26. Oakland Raiders (2-6) (Last week: 25). The psychological evaluation of coach Tom Cable will begin and end with the following question: "Tell me why in the hell you took this job?"

27. Kansas City Chiefs (1-7) (Last week: 26). Larry Johnson got what he wanted.

28. Washington Redskins (2-6) (Last week: 28). A 2-14 finish isn't out of the question.

29. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1-7) (Last week: 32). It's a good thing the Bucs waited until Josh Freeman was ready. They might have lost their first seven games if they had rushed him into action.

30. St. Louis Rams (1-7) (Last week: 30). The Saints. Are coming.

31. Detroit Lions (1-7) (Last week: 27). Coming soon, the Browns and Lions will battle for the right to screw up the first overall pick in the draft.

32. Cleveland Browns (1-7) (Last week: 31). There's nothing like a quiet, uneventful bye week to help stabilize a horrible team.

Tampa still has games against Carolina and Seattle, St. Louis plays Seattle and Tennessee and the Browns play KC and Oakland. Certainly some potential wins in there. Detroit has a pretty tough remaining schedule, but they have the head-to-head tiebreaker over the 'Skins so if they can pull off one win......#1 pick, here we come!!!

The competitive part of the Redskins schedule is over. Now they play all the teams in the playoff hunt.

 

[fatness]

Our receiver.

 

[fatness]

Horton's out 4-6 weeks and may need surgery. If so, he'd be gone for the season. There was some talk on ESPN980 this morning of moving Landry from free safety to strong safety.

 

[fatness]

A strong finish at this point only would hurt the Redskins' draft stock. If the season finished today, they would draft somewhere from No. 6 to No. 8 - they're tied with Oakland and Tennessee.

Players like Alexander want to have a strong finish before they hit free agency. That group also includes center Casey Rabach and potentially quarterback Jason Campbell, cornerback Carlos Rogers and linebacker Rocky McIntosh. If they put some good performances together, they could increase their open-market value.

"You try to play for yourself and play for your future, but you also have to play for other guys," Alexander said. "Anytime guys start to showboat and play for themselves, that's when things really fall apart.

Another reason the Redskins are 2-6 is because they do squat in the first halves of games; they have been outscored 45-10 in the first quarter and 58-26 in the second quarter. Sure, they hold a 49-10 third-quarter advantage, but that's primarily because opponents have enough of a lead to play a defense to avoid the big play. The Redskins needed two 13-play drives to score touchdowns against Atlanta.

The Redskins' first-half drives: 41 possessions, 11 turnovers, five field goals, three touchdowns and one safety.

O'Halloran

 

[fatness]

*Zorn was asked about his comments about the halftime atmosphere and mentioned the lack of pass protection.

"The only preparation that I wanted better was the mental concentration and heightened physical toughness," he said. "I’m referring to the offensive line and not everybody on the offensive line. It was just a few guys. We got sacked on a three-step drop. How do you do that? That shouldn’t happen. Those are the things that I was really concerned about."

Reaction: The old Zorn is seeping out of the closet with his analysis of the offensive line. He would be blowing an opportunity to criticize the construction of the roster if he glossed over the pass protection issues.

From Zorn's radio show today.