***Official*** 2009 Washington Redskins Thread (2 Viewers)

[dgreen]

Frankly, the coaching staff should be saying "screw you" and playing who they want back there. I'd love for Zorn to say, "What are you going to do, fire me?"

To do that the coaching staff has to be willing to be fired, and to therefore be unavailable to help the players for the rest of the year. I can't really see any of them doing that, unless they're 100% certain they won't be here next year and it's the last game of the season. I don't see the coaches bailing on their jobs to say F U.

I refuse to believe upper management is making the punt return call. It goes against everything they've done in the past. From telling Coles he can watch the games on a new flat screen to not using Archuletta at all. Dan has always been ok paying money for his mistakes.

Agreed, but it also makes no sense that this is a coach's decision. I'm still waiting to hear a theory/rumor that really makes sense here.

 

[Marvelous]

I agree with most of what you said and I'm a firm believer that Vinny's decisions need to be graded based on their own merit and not simply that they come from Vinny. I hate all the "Everything he does is bad" comments. He's done some good things. But, overall, he's unqualified for the job he's in...whatever that job is. If he's running the draft and leading the college scouting department, he might need someone above him saying a couple years ago, "Our OL is growing old. We really need to use some of our picks this year on OL. Don't reach for anyone who doesn't bring the proper value, but see what you can do. We'll also look into FA and trades to bring guys in."

Any way you slice it, Vinny is just bad for the organization. Whether he's actually making the picks or if he's a yes man....either way, he just needs to go. If he stays it means the circus stays in town for another year. Courting high priced free agents, alienating players, other players receiving seemingly preferential treatment, a complete ZOO of a search for a coaching staff and when that doesn't work you simply interject someone else into the equation. I don't care if it appears he may have stumbled his way into something here...that's what he does. Him being here means more mediocrity. More plug and play attempts at trying to string the team along and keeping us just good enough to where we don't suck. He needs to go.

Fact is, I don't think any of us have the complete picture of how things work in this organization. I don't think we have any idea who makes what decisions and who is in charge of different things. As fans, we like to assign blame but we really don't always know where to assign blame. In most organizations, you know who's responsible. Here, you don't. A lot of people seemed to think Gibbs had such power and responsibility. But, for example, there is no way I'll ever believe that Gibbs was behind the Brandon Lloyd trade. Which moves were his? Which were Vinny's? Which were Dan's? After Gibbs, which decisions were Vinny's and which were Dan's? What can Vinny really be blamed for and what can he really receive credit for?As I said, I think Vinny is totally unqualified for a GM type position. But, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be good at college scouting. Similarly, a guy can be a bad HC but still be a good OC. Different jobs require different skills. I don't care if Vinny is fired, moved, demoted, or stuffed in a closet somewhere just doing a radio show. I just don't want him making organizational decisions. I don't want him in any way deciding the direction of the team. That should be someone else. And, that someone else has to be able to handle Snyder. You can fire Vinny, but that doesn't necessarily move anything in the right direction if Snyder insists on acting the way he has. That doesn't mean Vinny should stay, either. Vinny has to be judged based on what Vinny has control over.

Why couldn't Gibbs be behind the Lloyd decision?I followed all of Gibbs' press conferences and interviews very closely when he was here. He clearly stated that he, Snyder, and Vinny as a team, made the decisions, with input from the scouts and coaching staffs. Even though they had differeing opinions, they left the room with a final, team decision. Secondly, Snyder idolizes the Redskins of the previous Gibbs era. I am almost certain that Snyder would always defer to Gibbs on any personel decision. So in the end, no matter who initially brought up Lloyd and Archuleta, I am certain the Gibbs liked the idea and signed off on it.

 

[dgreen]

From Jason Reid:

Could punt returns be in Thomas' future?

Devin Thomas, punt returner?

The second-year wide receiver is the No. 1 flanker, recently replaced Rock Cartwright as the primary kickoff returner and has emerged as a productive deep threat while displaying improved work habits. It would seem Thomas has more than enough to handle, but he said he's ready to share the load on punt returns if needed.

"If the coaches feel confident in me that they put me in more positions to help us win, why wouldn't I want to do that?" Thomas said. "I'm happy with the role they've given me, I'm happy with getting the ball however I can get it, so let's go."

Antwaan Randle El again struggled in the role in Sunday's 34-13 victory to the Oakland Raiders. On a fair catch, Randle El misplayed one ball that rolled a long way and resulted in poor field position for the Redskins. The Raiders also recovered the ball on Randle El's muff in the fourth.

"I think he was just more frustrated he couldn't get to that ball that hit the ground," Zorn said. "And it was the fumbled kick, the fumbled punt return, that was just something that he's going to see and kick himself for."

Randle El is averaging only 3.9 yards per punt, which is not among the top 24 return averages in the league. His 18 fair catches would be the highest total in the league if Randle El had returned enough punts to qualify among the league's leaders.

"I'm just surprised that it's turned out the way it has with Antwaan," Zorn said. "I really do trust him in there."

Thomas wanted it made clear he was not lobbying for Randle El's job. But he would be willing to take on more work if the coaching staff would prefer to have top wideout Santana Moss, who has been used as a change-of-pace returner, to focus exclusively on offense in the final three games.

"Everybody knows El has been doing it for a long time and he's a great veteran," Thomas said. "But if they want me to go back there and help, I'm going to go back there and help. They're feeling confident in having me back there [on kickoffs] and wanting me to do a good job, and I'm going to continue to do that for them. And I'm still ready to do the punt returns, so we'll see."

Coach Jim Zorn expressed some reluctance to expand Thomas's duties even more this season. "Who knows?" Zorn said. "I'm not sure I'm going to handle that quite yet. ... But he's not out of the question."

Special teams coordinator Danny Smith will have input in the decision, Zorn said. "The big thing is a matter of trust," Zorn said. "Catching a punt versus catching a kickoff, a little bit different. The decision-making, he hasn't had to make, on that minus 10-yard line. ... We're getting there with him."

 

[TankRizzo]

I refuse to believe upper management is making the punt return call. It goes against everything they've done in the past. From telling Coles he can watch the games on a new flat screen to not using Archuletta at all. Dan has always been ok paying money for his mistakes. On top of that, the staff has to realize that no matter what they are being told to do ad far as playing time it will go in history as a reflection of them . It is their jobs to play the guys that will make them look good. That will ultimately get them another job or not. Imagine Zorn at his next interview:"I knew having El as a punt returner hurt our chances of winning, but they told me to play him or I'd be fired.""Didn't you get fired for not winning? Why wouldn't you do what ever you had to to win? Don't call us. We'll call you."And if Largent was right and they brought in Lewis to force Zorn to resign what would stop Zorn from making his own call on the punt returner? None of that makes any sense. It can't be both.

Complete and total lack of respect. As much as Ceratto is a yes man, Zorn is even worse, he has zero leverage. He was so happy to even be in the position to be HC he probably signed away his life in his contract, and we know Snyder LOVES to niggle over contract details.

 

[Marvelous]

From Jason Reid:

Could punt returns be in Thomas' future?

Devin Thomas, punt returner?

The second-year wide receiver is the No. 1 flanker, recently replaced Rock Cartwright as the primary kickoff returner and has emerged as a productive deep threat while displaying improved work habits. It would seem Thomas has more than enough to handle, but he said he's ready to share the load on punt returns if needed.

"If the coaches feel confident in me that they put me in more positions to help us win, why wouldn't I want to do that?" Thomas said. "I'm happy with the role they've given me, I'm happy with getting the ball however I can get it, so let's go."

Antwaan Randle El again struggled in the role in Sunday's 34-13 victory to the Oakland Raiders. On a fair catch, Randle El misplayed one ball that rolled a long way and resulted in poor field position for the Redskins. The Raiders also recovered the ball on Randle El's muff in the fourth.

"I think he was just more frustrated he couldn't get to that ball that hit the ground," Zorn said. "And it was the fumbled kick, the fumbled punt return, that was just something that he's going to see and kick himself for."

Randle El is averaging only 3.9 yards per punt, which is not among the top 24 return averages in the league. His 18 fair catches would be the highest total in the league if Randle El had returned enough punts to qualify among the league's leaders.

"I'm just surprised that it's turned out the way it has with Antwaan," Zorn said. "I really do trust him in there."

Thomas wanted it made clear he was not lobbying for Randle El's job. But he would be willing to take on more work if the coaching staff would prefer to have top wideout Santana Moss, who has been used as a change-of-pace returner, to focus exclusively on offense in the final three games.

"Everybody knows El has been doing it for a long time and he's a great veteran," Thomas said. "But if they want me to go back there and help, I'm going to go back there and help. They're feeling confident in having me back there [on kickoffs] and wanting me to do a good job, and I'm going to continue to do that for them. And I'm still ready to do the punt returns, so we'll see."

Coach Jim Zorn expressed some reluctance to expand Thomas's duties even more this season. "Who knows?" Zorn said. "I'm not sure I'm going to handle that quite yet. ... But he's not out of the question."

Special teams coordinator Danny Smith will have input in the decision, Zorn said. "The big thing is a matter of trust," Zorn said. "Catching a punt versus catching a kickoff, a little bit different. The decision-making, he hasn't had to make, on that minus 10-yard line. ... We're getting there with him."

I would not put Thomas on punt returns. He is already doing a lot (starting wr, kickoff returns). Since he was slow to get going, I would much rather have him focus on being a wr. Stick some other people back there and try to find another PR in the off season. Note that most teams use low round draft picks to return punts and kickoffs and change it every few years. They don't since a mega free agent to return kicks. But the Redskins never do things the way other teams do.

 

[dgreen]

Why couldn't Gibbs be behind the Lloyd decision?I followed all of Gibbs' press conferences and interviews very closely when he was here. He clearly stated that he, Snyder, and Vinny as a team, made the decisions, with input from the scouts and coaching staffs. Even though they had differeing opinions, they left the room with a final, team decision. Secondly, Snyder idolizes the Redskins of the previous Gibbs era. I am almost certain that Snyder would always defer to Gibbs on any personel decision. So in the end, no matter who initially brought up Lloyd and Archuleta, I am certain the Gibbs liked the idea and signed off on it.

If Gibbs was on board with this decision then my conclusion would be that he was fed horrible information. Brandon Lloyd is not the type of guy Gibbs has ever had on his team. So, the move either happened against Gibbs' wishes or he had poor information. Yes, Gibbs had guys like Riggo and Dexter and some others. But, those guys were team guys. They had their quirks and off-color character issues, but they weren't problems. All the reports out of San Fran is that they were delighted to get rid of Lloyd.I can see Gibbs deferring to Gregg on Archuleta. Gibbs was a delegator.I know what you're saying about the "team decisions". But, we really don't know how that worked, so we really don't know how much power Gibbs had in that process. Let's say they had some system where everyone rated players and they put together some combined score. Well, if Vinny's score is weighted as much as Gibbs' score, then you can end up with a guy like Lloyd who Gibbs never wanted. I'd like to think Snyder gave Gibbs more weight, but maybe not. Or maybe Vinny brought up Lloyd, showed Dan a youtube clip, and Gibbs watched Danny jump up and down giggling like a little girl. Maybe Gibbs said, "He certainly has some unique talent, but I just don't think he's a true Redskin." Then Vinny had a chance for one rebuttal and showed another youtube clip.

 

[dgreen]

Note that most teams use low round draft picks to return punts and kickoffs and change it every few years. They don't since a mega free agent to return kicks. But the Redskins never do things the way other teams do.

I don't think it's so much that they use low round picks, but they use young guys. Some teams have high round picks like Reggie Bush and DeSean Jackson returning punts and they make a big difference. We opened the season with a 30 year old returning kickoffs and a 30 year old returning punts.

 

[fatness]

Frankly, the coaching staff should be saying "screw you" and playing who they want back there. I'd love for Zorn to say, "What are you going to do, fire me?"

To do that the coaching staff has to be willing to be fired, and to therefore be unavailable to help the players for the rest of the year. I can't really see any of them doing that, unless they're 100% certain they won't be here next year and it's the last game of the season. I don't see the coaches bailing on their jobs to say F U.

I refuse to believe upper management is making the punt return call.

Yes, you do.

And if Largent was right and they brought in Lewis to force Zorn to resign what would stop Zorn from making his own call on the punt returner?

Not wanting to be fired.

 

[fatness]

Studs and Duds

Studs

LB/DE Brian Orakpo. This might be the best pick of Vinny Cerrato’s career because of where he got him (13th overall). Orakpo’s first of his four sacks came as a standup linebacker – it would be wrong to abandon having him rush from a two-point stance – when he got through the tight end first and then the running back. What I also like is how nimble his feet are; twice the Raiders tried to cut him low and he avoided the block and got in on the play. He also recorded sacks via different ways: with power, speed and both. And a few times the design of the rush left him with one guy to beat. For example, there was one sack in which Justin Fargas was in the backfield waiting to help the tackle. But as Orakpo patiently rushed at the tackle. Fargas then slid inside to take on London Fletcher, who showed blitz – but only to draw Fargas. Left alone, Orakpo beat Mario Henderson wide. Outstanding.

QB Jason Campbell. Hard to believe they might actually let him go after what is clearly the best season of his career, when considering the circumstances. He gets poor protection yet as he runs up into the pocket his eyes remain downfield. Two touchdowns, no interceptions and no fumbles given the amount of hits yesterday? Hard to beat. It helps

RB Quinton Ganther (runner). He only had 50 yards rushing, but did have a 42-yard catch. What he does well is break tackles and make defenders miss. He had consecutive runs where he gained a combined six extra yards after first contact on tough runs through the left side.

DE Andre Carter. Had two sacks. Again, the design of the rushes left him one-on-one enough times to do damage. Played contain well and had a couple backside tackles.

DT Kedric Golston. A very underrated player. Uses leverage as well as most players and it led to tackles and clogged lanes. Golston played the run well. Want to know why Orakpo got two of his sacks? Because Golston went where he should on a stunt, finding a way to occupy two blockers and, one time, obstructing the vision of the guard enough to let Orakpo slip to the middle.

PK Graham Gano. How about the new kid? Nobody looked more relieved than Gano after his 46-yard field goal than the rookie. But as much as that, his kickoffs were excellent. He pinned the Raiders into the corner twice and had two touchbacks. His worst kickoff came after the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty when his line drive led to a long return.

TE Fred Davis. He’s on this list a lot lately and well-deserved. Did a nice job on his first touchdown catch, getting to the middle and then cutting hard back to his left to get open. His block on the Santana Moss screen inside the 10-yard line highlighted his athleticism.

FB Todd Yoder. The Redskins used more I-formation in the second half and Yoder made it work with some good lead blocks. He cleared an opening on one touchdown for Ganther. Considering he’s not a fullback, Yoder did a nice job.

DL Lorenzo Alexander. Best plays came in punt coverage when he recorded tackles in the open field, no small feat for a guy his size. Also had a sack late in the game.

S LaRon Landry (when not in man coverage): Used up near the line most of the time and had some strong hits. He blitzed well. Preview of things to come? Or was it because the Redskins wanted to blitz more and knew the Raiders would not be able to go downfield. Plus his interception helped

 

[fatness]

Duds

RB Quinton Ganther (pass protection). He went the wrong way on at least two occasions leading to unblocked blitzers who drilled Jason Campbell. Ganther is a willing blocker and his chips on ends are excellent; he does so with violence and knocks them back. But he must improve at learning where to go. On one blitz, when he was to the left of Campbell, he only looked middle and to the right. He never saw a defender to his left. On the snap, Ganther went to his right and the blitzer went past him for the hit.

WR Antwaan Randle El. He dropped a pass and his punt returns, once again, were brutal. He let one punt roll way too far and then he dropped another. Not a good day for him.

LT Levi Jones. Was beaten way too often and mostly because he did not use his feet well. Found himself reaching too much with his hands and that led to him getting off-balance on a few occasions. The turf was horrible so it appeared many linemen on both teams had a tough time; they’d try to plant and could not. But it doesn’t explain everything.

RT Stephon Heyer. Allowed a sack; again he appeared to have trouble setting one time because of the turf. But overall did not have a strong game. Got knocked off-balance a few times; had help on many occasions. Got beat by a linebacker on a rush where he lunged at him and missed.

S LaRon Landry (man coverage). Darren McFadden and Zach Miller got him in one-on-one coverage, partly because Landry did not have his eyes in the right place. Sean Taylor used to be able to cover in the slot; that’s not Landry’s strength at all. The coaches realized this and ended this strategy early. Blame them for putting him in that position.

LG Derrick Dockery. Was too upright and that landed him in trouble. Got shoved back a couple times forcing a deep cut by the running back. Lunged at Richard Seymour one time and missed.

3 offensive linemen on the Duds list.

 

[dgreen]

3 offensive linemen on the Duds list.

They really weren't good. Campbell was slow to get up a couple times in the first half.For some reason, my son decided to ask, "Is Jason Campbell going to get hurt today." For some reason, I just said, "Probably not," then thought to myself, "Ha, he'll probably get knocked out on the next play." Well, the very next play, Levi Jones decided not to block the Raiders DE and he drilled Campbell in the back. He laid there for a little bit clearly in pain. They cameras then kept showing Campbell on the sideline with a trainer working on his shoulder.

 

[buster c]

TBell, you sound like Vinny's agent.

What specifically do you take issue with and (most importantly) why?

Just like buster, he takes issue with anyone saying anything that is even remotely positive about Vinny or Dan.

 

[buster c]

TBell, you sound like Vinny's agent.

What specifically do you take issue with and (most importantly) why?

I'd be curious to see pre-2008 draft history in that same format. Obviously you can't really evaluate 2009 yet, but honestly it doesn't look very impressive thus far considering that Orakpo was a no-brainer once he slipped to 13 and that Vinny whiffed on several more opportunities to draft OL depth. The big misstep in 2008 was obviously Malcolm Kelly, which was a wasted pick after Devin Thomas, whom we obviously preferred. And the major issue, of course, is not the guys he picked, but the guys he didn't pick. Sure it's nice to have that secondary depth, but I sure wish it was OL depth instead. The seventh-round finds are somewhat impressive, but that's really all that Vinny is good at, and it's really not all that impressive anyway considering how many decent NFL starters are pulled off the scrap heap every year. Also, as a Nationals fan, the schtick about finding hidden gems who turn into average contributors while ignoring huge, glaring team needs sounds very Jim Bowden-like.

so much for my theory that T-Funke is/was a T Bell alias

 

[buster c]

I agree with most of what you said and I'm a firm believer that Vinny's decisions need to be graded based on their own merit and not simply that they come from Vinny. I hate all the "Everything he does is bad" comments. He's done some good things. But, overall, he's unqualified for the job he's in...whatever that job is. If he's running the draft and leading the college scouting department, he might need someone above him saying a couple years ago, "Our OL is growing old. We really need to use some of our picks this year on OL. Don't reach for anyone who doesn't bring the proper value, but see what you can do. We'll also look into FA and trades to bring guys in."

Any way you slice it, Vinny is just bad for the organization. Whether he's actually making the picks or if he's a yes man....either way, he just needs to go. If he stays it means the circus stays in town for another year. Courting high priced free agents, alienating players, other players receiving seemingly preferential treatment, a complete ZOO of a search for a coaching staff and when that doesn't work you simply interject someone else into the equation. I don't care if it appears he may have stumbled his way into something here...that's what he does. Him being here means more mediocrity. More plug and play attempts at trying to string the team along and keeping us just good enough to where we don't suck. He needs to go.

Fact is, I don't think any of us have the complete picture of how things work in this organization. I don't think we have any idea who makes what decisions and who is in charge of different things.

Snyder, Daniel M.

 

[T Bell]

TBell, you sound like Vinny's agent.

What specifically do you take issue with and (most importantly) why?

I'd be curious to see pre-2008 draft history in that same format.

Obviously you can't really evaluate 2009 yet, but honestly it doesn't look very impressive thus far considering that Orakpo was a no-brainer once he slipped to 13 and that Vinny whiffed on several more opportunities to draft OL depth.

The big misstep in 2008 was obviously Malcolm Kelly, which was a wasted pick after Devin Thomas, whom we obviously preferred. And the major issue, of course, is not the guys he picked, but the guys he didn't pick. Sure it's nice to have that secondary depth, but I sure wish it was OL depth instead.

The seventh-round finds are somewhat impressive, but that's really all that Vinny is good at, and it's really not all that impressive anyway considering how many decent NFL starters are pulled off the scrap heap every year. Also, as a Nationals fan, the schtick about finding hidden gems who turn into average contributors while ignoring huge, glaring team needs sounds very Jim Bowden-like.

Here's the entirety of the Snyderatto era drafts:

Washington / Boston RedskinsYear	No.	Round	Pick	Player	Name	Position	College2009	1	1	13	13	Brian Orakpo	LB	Texas 	2	3	16	80	Kevin Barnes	DB	Maryland 	3	5	22	158	Cody Glenn	LB	Nebraska 	4	6	13	186	Robert Henson	LB	Texas Christian 	5	7	12	221	Eddie Williams	TE	Idaho 	6	7	34	243	Marko Mitchell	WR	Nevada2008	1	2	3	34	Devin Thomas	WR	Michigan State 	2	2	17	48	Fred Davis	TE	USC 	3	2	20	51	Malcolm Kelly	WR	Oklahoma 	4	3	33	96	Chad Rinehart	G	Northern Iowa 	5	4	25	124	Justin Tryon	DB	Arizona State 	6	6	2	168	Durant Brooks	P	Georgia Tech 	7	6	14	180	Kareem Moore	DB	Nicholls State 	8	6	20	186	Colt Brennan	QB	Hawaii 	9	7	35	242	Rob Jackson	DE	Kansas State 	10	7	42	249	Christopher Horton	DB	UCLA2007	1	1	6	6	LaRon Landry	DB	Louisiana State 	2	5	6	143	Dallas Sartz	LB	USC 	3	6	5	179	H.B. Blades	LB	Pittsburgh 	4	6	31	205	Jordan Palmer	QB	Texas-El Paso 	5	7	6	216	Tyler Ecker	TE	Michigan2006	1	2	3	35	Roger (Rocky) McIntosh	LB	Miami (FL) 	2	5	21	153	Anthony Montgomery	DT	Minnesota 	3	6	4	173	Reed Doughty	DB	Northern Colorado 	4	6	27	196	Kedric Golston	DT	Georgia 	5	7	22	230	Kili Lefotu	G	Arizona 	6	7	42	250	Kevin Simon	LB	Tennessee2005	1	1	9	9	Carlos Rogers	DB	Auburn 	2	1	25	25	Jason Campbell	QB	Auburn 	3	4	19	120	Manuel White	RB	UCLA 	4	5	18	154	Robert McCune	LB	Louisville 	5	6	9	183	Jared Newberry	LB	Stanford 	6	7	8	222	Nehemiah Broughton	RB	Citadel2004	1	1	5	5	Sean Taylor	DB	Miami (FL) 	2	3	18	81	Chris Cooley	TE	Utah State 	3	5	19	151	Mark Wilson	T	California 	4	6	15	180	Jim Molinaro	T	Notre Dame2003	1	2	12	44	Taylor Jacobs	WR	Florida 	2	3	17	81	Derrick Dockery	G	Texas 	3	7	18	232	Gibran Hamdan	QB	Indiana2002	1	1	32	32	Patrick Ramsey	QB	Tulane 	2	2	24	56	Ladell Betts	RB	Iowa 	3	3	14	79	Rashad Bauman	DB	Oregon 	4	3	22	87	Cliff Russell	WR	Utah 	5	5	24	159	Andre Lott	DB	Tennessee 	6	5	25	160	Robert Royal	TE	Louisiana State 	7	6	20	192	Reggie Coleman	T	Tennessee 	8	7	19	230	Jeff Grau	TE	UCLA 	9	7	23	234	Gregory Scott	DE	Hampton 	10	7	46	257	Rock Cartwright	RB	Kansas State2001	1	1	15	15	Rod Gardner	WR	Clemson 	2	2	14	45	Fred Smoot	DB	Mississippi State 	3	4	14	109	Sage Rosenfels	QB	Iowa State 	4	5	23	154	Darnerian McCants	WR	Delaware State 	5	6	23	186	Mario Monds	DT	Cincinnati2000	1	1	2	2	LaVar Arrington	LB	Penn State 	2	1	3	3	Chris Samuels	T	Alabama 	3	3	2	64	Lloyd Harrison	DB	North Carolina State 	4	4	35	129	Michael Moore	G	Troy State 	5	5	26	155	Quincy Sanders	DB	UNLV 	6	6	36	202	Todd Husak	QB	Stanford 	7	7	10	216	Delbert Cowsette	DT	Maryland 	8	7	44	250	Ethan Howell	WR	Oklahoma State

Marty handled 2001, and Gibbs was primarily responsible (whatever that means) for 2004-2007.

 

[TobiasFunke]

TBell, you sound like Vinny's agent.

What specifically do you take issue with and (most importantly) why?

I'd be curious to see pre-2008 draft history in that same format.

Obviously you can't really evaluate 2009 yet, but honestly it doesn't look very impressive thus far considering that Orakpo was a no-brainer once he slipped to 13 and that Vinny whiffed on several more opportunities to draft OL depth.

The big misstep in 2008 was obviously Malcolm Kelly, which was a wasted pick after Devin Thomas, whom we obviously preferred. And the major issue, of course, is not the guys he picked, but the guys he didn't pick. Sure it's nice to have that secondary depth, but I sure wish it was OL depth instead.

The seventh-round finds are somewhat impressive, but that's really all that Vinny is good at, and it's really not all that impressive anyway considering how many decent NFL starters are pulled off the scrap heap every year. Also, as a Nationals fan, the schtick about finding hidden gems who turn into average contributors while ignoring huge, glaring team needs sounds very Jim Bowden-like.

Here's the entirety of the Snyderatto era drafts:

Washington / Boston RedskinsYear	No.	Round	Pick	Player	Name	Position	College2009	1	1	13	13	Brian Orakpo	LB	Texas 	2	3	16	80	Kevin Barnes	DB	Maryland 	3	5	22	158	Cody Glenn	LB	Nebraska 	4	6	13	186	Robert Henson	LB	Texas Christian 	5	7	12	221	Eddie Williams	TE	Idaho 	6	7	34	243	Marko Mitchell	WR	Nevada2008	1	2	3	34	Devin Thomas	WR	Michigan State 	2	2	17	48	Fred Davis	TE	USC 	3	2	20	51	Malcolm Kelly	WR	Oklahoma 	4	3	33	96	Chad Rinehart	G	Northern Iowa 	5	4	25	124	Justin Tryon	DB	Arizona State 	6	6	2	168	Durant Brooks	P	Georgia Tech 	7	6	14	180	Kareem Moore	DB	Nicholls State 	8	6	20	186	Colt Brennan	QB	Hawaii 	9	7	35	242	Rob Jackson	DE	Kansas State 	10	7	42	249	Christopher Horton	DB	UCLA2007	1	1	6	6	LaRon Landry	DB	Louisiana State 	2	5	6	143	Dallas Sartz	LB	USC 	3	6	5	179	H.B. Blades	LB	Pittsburgh 	4	6	31	205	Jordan Palmer	QB	Texas-El Paso 	5	7	6	216	Tyler Ecker	TE	Michigan2006	1	2	3	35	Roger (Rocky) McIntosh	LB	Miami (FL) 	2	5	21	153	Anthony Montgomery	DT	Minnesota 	3	6	4	173	Reed Doughty	DB	Northern Colorado 	4	6	27	196	Kedric Golston	DT	Georgia 	5	7	22	230	Kili Lefotu	G	Arizona 	6	7	42	250	Kevin Simon	LB	Tennessee2005	1	1	9	9	Carlos Rogers	DB	Auburn 	2	1	25	25	Jason Campbell	QB	Auburn 	3	4	19	120	Manuel White	RB	UCLA 	4	5	18	154	Robert McCune	LB	Louisville 	5	6	9	183	Jared Newberry	LB	Stanford 	6	7	8	222	Nehemiah Broughton	RB	Citadel2004	1	1	5	5	Sean Taylor	DB	Miami (FL) 	2	3	18	81	Chris Cooley	TE	Utah State 	3	5	19	151	Mark Wilson	T	California 	4	6	15	180	Jim Molinaro	T	Notre Dame2003	1	2	12	44	Taylor Jacobs	WR	Florida 	2	3	17	81	Derrick Dockery	G	Texas 	3	7	18	232	Gibran Hamdan	QB	Indiana2002	1	1	32	32	Patrick Ramsey	QB	Tulane 	2	2	24	56	Ladell Betts	RB	Iowa 	3	3	14	79	Rashad Bauman	DB	Oregon 	4	3	22	87	Cliff Russell	WR	Utah 	5	5	24	159	Andre Lott	DB	Tennessee 	6	5	25	160	Robert Royal	TE	Louisiana State 	7	6	20	192	Reggie Coleman	T	Tennessee 	8	7	19	230	Jeff Grau	TE	UCLA 	9	7	23	234	Gregory Scott	DE	Hampton 	10	7	46	257	Rock Cartwright	RB	Kansas State2001	1	1	15	15	Rod Gardner	WR	Clemson 	2	2	14	45	Fred Smoot	DB	Mississippi State 	3	4	14	109	Sage Rosenfels	QB	Iowa State 	4	5	23	154	Darnerian McCants	WR	Delaware State 	5	6	23	186	Mario Monds	DT	Cincinnati2000	1	1	2	2	LaVar Arrington	LB	Penn State 	2	1	3	3	Chris Samuels	T	Alabama 	3	3	2	64	Lloyd Harrison	DB	North Carolina State 	4	4	35	129	Michael Moore	G	Troy State 	5	5	26	155	Quincy Sanders	DB	UNLV 	6	6	36	202	Todd Husak	QB	Stanford 	7	7	10	216	Delbert Cowsette	DT	Maryland 	8	7	44	250	Ethan Howell	WR	Oklahoma State

Marty handled 2001, and Gibbs was primarily responsible (whatever that means) for 2004-2007.

I don't know who was really running the show for the 2007 draft, but any Redskin who was remotely involved in that atrocity should be forced to leave the team, the game, and possibly the country.

 

[dgreen]

I agree with most of what you said and I'm a firm believer that Vinny's decisions need to be graded based on their own merit and not simply that they come from Vinny. I hate all the "Everything he does is bad" comments. He's done some good things. But, overall, he's unqualified for the job he's in...whatever that job is. If he's running the draft and leading the college scouting department, he might need someone above him saying a couple years ago, "Our OL is growing old. We really need to use some of our picks this year on OL. Don't reach for anyone who doesn't bring the proper value, but see what you can do. We'll also look into FA and trades to bring guys in."

Any way you slice it, Vinny is just bad for the organization. Whether he's actually making the picks or if he's a yes man....either way, he just needs to go. If he stays it means the circus stays in town for another year. Courting high priced free agents, alienating players, other players receiving seemingly preferential treatment, a complete ZOO of a search for a coaching staff and when that doesn't work you simply interject someone else into the equation. I don't care if it appears he may have stumbled his way into something here...that's what he does. Him being here means more mediocrity. More plug and play attempts at trying to string the team along and keeping us just good enough to where we don't suck. He needs to go.

Fact is, I don't think any of us have the complete picture of how things work in this organization. I don't think we have any idea who makes what decisions and who is in charge of different things.

Snyder, Daniel M.

I'm fine with saying: "Daniel M. Snyder makes more football-related decisions than any owner other than possibly Jerry Jones and Al Davis." But, I'm also fine with saying: "Daniel M. Snyder doesn't make as many football-related decisions as we think he does."And, you cut off the bold statement at the wrong spot. The "who is in charge" part goes with the "of different things" part. Snyder clearly has "scouted" some of the top prospects, especially QBs. But, I doubt he has any input into lower draft picks and other positions. He didn't scout Kareem Moore. I get that Snyder is in charge and more involved than other owners, but that doesn't mean he is in charge of every little thing. He sticks his nose in areas it doesn't belong, but that doesn't mean he sticks his nose into everything. He may say ARE must return punts, but that doesn't mean he decides who is on punt coverage. Hence why I say we don't really know who does what in different areas and different scenarios.

 

[T Bell]

I don't know who was really running the show for the 2007 draft, but any Redskin who was remotely involved in that atrocity should be forced to leave the team, the game, and possibly the country.

With the exception of Marty's 2001 draft effort, the pattern has been with only very rare exception to nail early picks and to blow it on all of the rest (assuming there even are many more picks that weren't traded away). The last two drafts have seemed better with regards to the later rounds. And yeah, 2007, 2002 and 2001 were absolutely

 

[Marvelous]

I don't know who was really running the show for the 2007 draft, but any Redskin who was remotely involved in that atrocity should be forced to leave the team, the game, and possibly the country.

With the exception of Marty's 2001 draft effort, the pattern has been with only very rare exception to nail early picks and to blow it on all of the rest (assuming there even are many more picks that weren't traded away). The last two drafts have seemed better with regards to the later rounds. And yeah, 2007, 2002 and 2001 were absolutely

In the Gibbs 2.0 era, Gibbs was involved in the very high picks, but Vinny's biggest responsibility was the draft. After the high picks, Gibbs pretty much turned it over to Vinny. I remember Gibbs going over this once during an interview.

 

[Sebowski]

Frankly, the coaching staff should be saying "screw you" and playing who they want back there. I'd love for Zorn to say, "What are you going to do, fire me?"

To do that the coaching staff has to be willing to be fired, and to therefore be unavailable to help the players for the rest of the year. I can't really see any of them doing that, unless they're 100% certain they won't be here next year and it's the last game of the season. I don't see the coaches bailing on their jobs to say F U.

I refuse to believe upper management is making the punt return call.

Yes, you do.

And if Largent was right and they brought in Lewis to force Zorn to resign what would stop Zorn from making his own call on the punt returner?

Not wanting to be fired.

1. Those Zorn quotes dgreen posted support me.2. Getting fired for standing up to the owner will earn him respect and sympathy. Plus, he'll still get paid. Resigning won't. That is why Largent said he took the Lewis thing.

 

[T Bell]

1. Those Zorn quotes dgreen posted support me.2. Getting fired for standing up to the owner will earn him respect and sympathy. Plus, he'll still get paid. Resigning won't. That is why Largent said he took the Lewis thing.

Zorn standing up to Snyder is about his next job, not this one. By now Snyder has the reputation of being a meddlesome owner, so Zorn showing backbone there would probably earn him credit around the league. Even if it came out that by using someone else besides ARE as the PR was "insubordination", most football peoples' reactions to that would be, "WTF is Snyder or Cerrato doing telling the coach who to play at PR, especially when they suck!"

 

[fatness]

1. Those Zorn quotes dgreen posted support me.2. Getting fired for standing up to the owner will earn him respect and sympathy. Plus, he'll still get paid. Resigning won't. That is why Largent said he took the Lewis thing.

Those quotes don't support your "Dan Snyder is blameless" opinion, no. They're just the same kind of gobbledy#### Zorn had to mouth before when he had decided to replace Randle El as punt returner and was overruled by the front office. I think you and a few other people are forgetting what a tightrope Zorn's had to walk ever since they took brought in Sherm Lewis. He can't say what he means or he'll get fired (likely "for cause" so they don't have to pay him), and not be there for the players. Acting like he should bail on the team and get fired in order to have an ineffective moment of righteous indignation is silly, really. Sure, it's cool in movies, and he'd get lots of applause, but it would simply mean they promote Smith or someone for the last few games to carry out what the front office wants. A head coach committed to his players isn't going to defy an owner knowing he'll get fired in the middle of a season. Come on.edit to add: I think if Randle El's replaced it'll be during the last game of the season. Nothing to lose then.

 

[fatness]

Blache broke his media silence this week to explain why London Fletcher is one of the game's most consistent and dependable defensive players yet hasn't reached a Pro Bowl in 12 seasons.

"The thing that hurts London is that he doesn't act like an idiot every time he makes a tackle," Blache said. "He doesn't bring that attention to himself. He's a football player, not a showman. He takes great pride in his football, and he has great respect for the game. He acts the way a professional is supposed to act, and consequently, it's cost him."

Link

Fletcher has more tackles in the past decade than any other player.

"He is our coach on the field, as far as getting guys aligned, making checks, recognition, calling out offensive sets," he said. "The guy is smarter than a lot of assistant coaches that I've worked with.

"

Blache is on-record as a coach who has little tolerance for first-year players. But he says Orakpo, who lines up as the team's strong-side linebacker and defensive end, is different.

"No disrespect to them, but the other rookies in this class -- the other rookies in last year's class -- he's heads and shoulders above them," Blache said. "This guy walks in here, and he prepares like a man. A lot of the rookies, you have to worry because they're talking about all these things that are unrelated to football. They know more about Gameboys than game plans. That's not what he's about."

 

[dgreen]

1. Those Zorn quotes dgreen posted support me.2. Getting fired for standing up to the owner will earn him respect and sympathy. Plus, he'll still get paid. Resigning won't. That is why Largent said he took the Lewis thing.

Zorn standing up to Snyder is about his next job, not this one. By now Snyder has the reputation of being a meddlesome owner, so Zorn showing backbone there would probably earn him credit around the league. Even if it came out that by using someone else besides ARE as the PR was "insubordination", most football peoples' reactions to that would be, "WTF is Snyder or Cerrato doing telling the coach who to play at PR, especially when they suck!"

Plus, Snyder has said many times that he now thinks he was wrong to fire Norv during the season. I don't think he'd do that again. I think Zorn could make the call to bench ARE as a PR and he would not be fired.We need to start listing all the theories for this and try to determine which one makes the most sense (well, not that it "makes sense", but, you know, like the one that we'd most believe is what's happening).

 

[T Bell]

My predictions for the rest of the year:

@ Oakland - W 24-10

New York - L 17-31

Dallas - W 21-17

@ San Diego - L 13-27

Oakland -- L (letdown after a string of defeats that seemed like victories compared to earlier in the year -- bizarro)NY Giants -- L (they're better than the Redskins)

Dallas -- W (final good effort of the season, against a collapsing team)

San Diego -- L ((humiliated by Norv as Redskin players go home early)

If Dallas has anything to play for, there's no way the skins will beat them. But that's a big if.

You know it's December, right?

 

[fatness]

I was wrong about the Oakland game. I hope I'm wrong about 2 of the other 3.

 

[fatness]

Plus, Snyder has said many times that he now thinks he was wrong to fire Norv during the season. I don't think he'd do that again. I think Zorn could make the call to bench ARE as a PR and he would not be fired.

Randle El's salary would probably be instantly cut, though.

 

[dgreen]

We need to start listing all the theories for this and try to determine which one makes the most sense (well, not that it "makes sense", but, you know, like the one that we'd most believe is what's happening).

OK, so who are all the possible players here? We have Danny, Vinny, Zorn, Danny Smith, and ARE. Anyone else possibly be part of a decision here?Is the only theory currently out there the Nittany Source Theory that some of us aren't buying? Any other theories? Andy and Steve were asking for theories last night, but I didn't hear any decent ones.The Nittany Source Theory - Basically, Danny signed ARE to be a WR and return punts. That's what he's being paid to do. And, by golly, he's going to return punts no matter how bad he is.
Why it might be true - Well, it's apparently an actual source within the team. And, it sounds kind of crazy and weird and vindictive which might be right up Snyder's alley.

Problems - Danny's never shied away from spending money on guys that are doing nothing. Several players have been paid to do X and then end up not doing X. Archuletta was demoted to punt protection/coverage duty. Coles was told to stay at home and watch the games on his new big tv courtesy of Mr. Snyder. Oh, and didn't Lloyd get the same $ and years as ARE?

So, any other theories out there? I guess there's always "Zorn's Telling the Truth Theory" and he actually does want him back there. There's the "Danny Smith likes ARE Theory". Both of those have obvious problems and would have to be somehow based on a "ARE is Actually the Best PR on the Team Theory." Anyone buying a "ARE Wants to Return Punts and Whined to Snyder About Being Benched Theory"? The main problem there is that all the on-the-field evidence is that ARE absolutely does not want to return punts.If I don't get a satisfactory theory, this is going to bug me for the rest of my life. I honestly think this has to be the single worst positional decision in the NFL. There probably isn't another positional decision in the league that is as ridiculous as this. Maybe if JaMarcus Russell was still the starter in Oakland then there would be some competition, but he's not.

 

[dgreen]

Plus, Snyder has said many times that he now thinks he was wrong to fire Norv during the season. I don't think he'd do that again. I think Zorn could make the call to bench ARE as a PR and he would not be fired.

Randle El's salary would probably be instantly cut, though.

I heard that NFL contracts don't include those types of clauses detailing what duties they'll perform. It's unlikely there's a "He gets paid X for returning punts and Y for being a WR" in his contract. If you're suggesting there's a bonus for the number of punts he returns, then why would the team let him reach that and get the bonus? It's usually the opposite that the team would cut him off before he reaches enough returns. That doesn't go well with it being a Danny decision.

 

[buster c]

We need to start listing all the theories for this and try to determine which one makes the most sense (well, not that it "makes sense", but, you know, like the one that we'd most believe is what's happening).

OK, so who are all the possible players here? We have Danny, Vinny, Zorn, Danny Smith, and ARE. Anyone else possibly be part of a decision here?Is the only theory currently out there the Nittany Source Theory that some of us aren't buying? Any other theories? Andy and Steve were asking for theories last night, but I didn't hear any decent ones.

The Nittany Source Theory - Basically, Danny signed ARE to be a WR and return punts. That's what he's being paid to do. And, by golly, he's going to return punts no matter how bad he is.

Why it might be true - Well, it's apparently an actual source within the team. And, it sounds kind of crazy and weird and vindictive which might be right up Snyder's alley.

Problems - Danny's never shied away from spending money on guys that are doing nothing. Several players have been paid to do X and then end up not doing X. Archuletta was demoted to punt protection/coverage duty. Coles was told to stay at home and watch the games on his new big tv courtesy of Mr. Snyder. Oh, and didn't Lloyd get the same $ and years as ARE?

So, any other theories out there? I guess there's always "Zorn's Telling the Truth Theory" and he actually does want him back there. There's the "Danny Smith likes ARE Theory". Both of those have obvious problems and would have to be somehow based on a "ARE is Actually the Best PR on the Team Theory." Anyone buying a "ARE Wants to Return Punts and Whined to Snyder About Being Benched Theory"? The main problem there is that all the on-the-field evidence is that ARE absolutely does not want to return punts.If I don't get a satisfactory theory, this is going to bug me for the rest of my life. I honestly think this has to be the single worst positional decision in the NFL. There probably isn't another positional decision in the league that is as ridiculous as this. Maybe if JaMarcus Russell was still the starter in Oakland then there would be some competition, but he's not.

dude, you need to relax and simply trust in the Nittany Lion theory. the man has people inside the building!

 

[dgreen]

dude, you need to relax and simply trust in the Nittany Lion theory. the man has people inside the building!

But it doesn't make sense! I know, I know. Lots of things coming out of Ashburn don't make sense. But, this doesn't make sense even when considering who is involved. Then again, I can't think of anything that does make sense.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Good news from the League Office:

No Tampering in Haynesworth Signing

 

[Marvelous]

dude, you need to relax and simply trust in the Nittany Lion theory. the man has people inside the building!

But it doesn't make sense! I know, I know. Lots of things coming out of Ashburn don't make sense. But, this doesn't make sense even when considering who is involved. Then again, I can't think of anything that does make sense.

I agree that the Nittany Lion theory does not make much sense. But every other scenario makes even less sense. Especailly after Zorn announced Randle El was being taken off PR and then recanting it.

 

[dgreen]

From Zorn today:

On why Antwaan Randle El is still returning punts: I put him in on that last one. I told Danny Smith I want Antwaan in there because of the sure catch. There was no argument. The decision obviously failed at that point. We’re going to make some adjustments. That doesn’t mean Antwaan will be totally sitting on the bench the whole time. Devin will be more involved. Santana will be more involved. We’ll see what happens with DeAngelo and try to get him back there as well.

On if Justin Tryon would go back there: He hasn’t shown yet that I would trust him. He hasn’t worked at it from that standpoint of decision-making and sure-catching. As a coach you have to have a comfort level. That’s why I had Antwaan there. I had a comfort level and it proved to be a little backfire. But that doesn’t mean he won’t catch the next 10 in a row. It just means at that moment it was a bad idea.

There's other stuff in that link, but I'm obsessed with this PR thing.

 

[Sebowski]

From Zorn today:

On why Antwaan Randle El is still returning punts: I put him in on that last one. I told Danny Smith I want Antwaan in there because of the sure catch. There was no argument. The decision obviously failed at that point. We’re going to make some adjustments. That doesn’t mean Antwaan will be totally sitting on the bench the whole time. Devin will be more involved. Santana will be more involved. We’ll see what happens with DeAngelo and try to get him back there as well.

On if Justin Tryon would go back there: He hasn’t shown yet that I would trust him. He hasn’t worked at it from that standpoint of decision-making and sure-catching. As a coach you have to have a comfort level. That’s why I had Antwaan there. I had a comfort level and it proved to be a little backfire. But that doesn’t mean he won’t catch the next 10 in a row. It just means at that moment it was a bad idea.

There's other stuff in that link, but I'm obsessed with this PR thing.

More support for my theory you can deny, fatness.

 

[dgreen]

dude, you need to relax and simply trust in the Nittany Lion theory. the man has people inside the building!

But it doesn't make sense! I know, I know. Lots of things coming out of Ashburn don't make sense. But, this doesn't make sense even when considering who is involved. Then again, I can't think of anything that does make sense.

I agree that the Nittany Lion theory does not make much sense. But every other scenario makes even less sense. Especailly after Zorn announced Randle El was being taken off PR and then recanting it.

I don't recall how all the Zorn comments went, but I don't remember them being very clear. Shocker.

 

[Sidewinder16]

From Zorn today:

There's other stuff in that link...

Including:

On if Ganther is a 16-game starter: I view him as a guy who comes in to help us out.

I read that to say that Portis isn't going anywhere.

 

[fatness]

Plus, Snyder has said many times that he now thinks he was wrong to fire Norv during the season. I don't think he'd do that again. I think Zorn could make the call to bench ARE as a PR and he would not be fired.

Randle El's salary would probably be instantly cut, though.

I heard that NFL contracts don't include those types of clauses detailing what duties they'll perform. It's unlikely there's a "He gets paid X for returning punts and Y for being a WR" in his contract. If you're suggesting there's a bonus for the number of punts he returns, then why would the team let him reach that and get the bonus? It's usually the opposite that the team would cut him off before he reaches enough returns. That doesn't go well with it being a Danny decision.

Another possibility is that he gets an instant raise if he's removed from punt return responsibilities. And another is that his contract guarantees that he'll return punts, unless he gives up the role. The front office is driving this one. I am guessing the basis is contractual because the only other reasons don't make sense --- personal like/dislike, a command structure where the front office has to OK all starting/non-starting moves, etc. Czaban and Polin were talking this afternoon about Zorn's bull#### explanation today (which Sebowski laughingly calls 'proof'), and Zorn's earlier appearance on the radio today with Sheehan and Lovero. Czaban said his question would have been "is it possible that Randle El's contract is the reason he's returning punts?" and, after a Zorn denial, would follow it with questions about Randle El's punt returning stats (according to Dan Steinberg he's either 49th or 65th in the league, depending on how many opportunities someone needs to qualify to rank). Sheehan doesn't ask questions like that. I think nittanylion is right that the reason is contractual; the only thing I wonder about is what exactly in contract it is that keeps an incompetent punt returner returning punts. Don't forget, Randle El was signed with lots of money and schmoozing, and a simple promise to make him THE punt returner may have been in that contract to seal the deal.

 

[fatness]

Don't forget, Randle El was signed with lots of money and schmoozing, and a simple promise to make him THE punt returner may have been in that contract to seal the deal.

Snyder: We want you to be a WR and to return punts when you sign with us.

Randle El: I already do that. I'm a slot receiver and punt returner.

Snyder: We don't want you in the slot. We want you as WR2.

Randle EL: What about punts?

Snyder: You'll be THE Redskin punt returner. And WR2, and look at these dollars.

Randle El: *signs*

Redskin Park announcement: As further proof of Dan Snyder's desire to win, a blockbuster deal has been reached with prime free agent Antwaan Randle El.

 

[fatness]

It makes no sense that Zorn doesn't see Randle El mishandle punt after punt. It makes no sense that it does not come up in coaches meetings. And it makes no sense that Zorn blows off what his coaches see and say. The guy's job has been hanging by a thread for weeks, his team was in turmoil, and yet they've remained cohesive and made progress. Credit for the cohesion goes to Zorn. And you don't maintain cohesion amongst a group of coaches who may all be fired at the end of the season by blowing off their opinions in coaches meetings.

It's not anyone on the coaching staff making the decision that Randle El keep returning punts.

 

[Sebowski]

It makes no sense that Zorn doesn't see Randle El mishandle punt after punt. It makes no sense that it does not come up in coaches meetings. And it makes no sense that Zorn blows off what his coaches see and say. The guy's job has been hanging by a thread for weeks, his team was in turmoil, and yet they've remained cohesive and made progress. Credit for the cohesion goes to Zorn. And you don't maintain cohesion amongst a group of coaches who may all be fired at the end of the season by blowing off their opinions in coaches meetings. It's not anyone on the coaching staff making the decision that Randle El keep returning punts.

It does make sense when you you realize Zorn is a bad coach. He is a veteran guy. He would let Kelly, Thomas, Davis on the field last year, refused to run plays designed for them to get them in the game, etc... It wasn't until Lewis started calling plays that Thomas emerged. So he won't give the unproven guys a chance again. That leaves Moss and Hall. I don't think he can afford them getting hurt on a punt return. Not on his watch.ETA One more theory: Zorn keeps him in there to rub it in Vinny's face and make him look bad. If Dan and Vinny asked Zorn why he kept El in all season he can say, "gee, isn't that why you guys brought him here? He's the guy you gave me to return punts isn't he?"

 

[Bizkiteer]

Plus, Snyder has said many times that he now thinks he was wrong to fire Norv during the season. I don't think he'd do that again. I think Zorn could make the call to bench ARE as a PR and he would not be fired.

Randle El's salary would probably be instantly cut, though.

I heard that NFL contracts don't include those types of clauses detailing what duties they'll perform. It's unlikely there's a "He gets paid X for returning punts and Y for being a WR" in his contract. If you're suggesting there's a bonus for the number of punts he returns, then why would the team let him reach that and get the bonus? It's usually the opposite that the team would cut him off before he reaches enough returns. That doesn't go well with it being a Danny decision.

In all fairness, it might not be listed in the contract, but it could have been a BIG negotiational ploy by ARE & agent to increase the $$$ for coming to DC. Remember, CHI about had ARE locked up and we snatched him up. Maybe to get more muhla, they kept pointing out that he was a PR too. Just an idea...who really knows?

 

[jbz]

Don't forget, Randle El was signed with lots of money and schmoozing, and a simple promise to make him THE punt returner may have been in that contract to seal the deal.

Snyder: We want you to be a WR and to return punts when you sign with us.

Randle El: I already do that. I'm a slot receiver and punt returner.

Snyder: We don't want you in the slot. We want you as WR2.

Randle EL: What about punts?

Snyder: You'll be THE Redskin punt returner. And WR2, and look at these dollars.

Randle El: *signs*

Redskin Park announcement: As further proof of Dan Snyder's desire to win, a blockbuster deal has been reached with prime free agent Antwaan Randle El.

Pretty much a guarantee that's how it went down. But now that he's signed, they can take that punt returner promise back. Put Santana back there. DA U......

 

[jbz]

From Zorn today:

There's other stuff in that link...

Including:

On if Ganther is a 16-game starter: I view him as a guy who comes in to help us out.

I read that to say that Portis isn't going anywhere.

or that Ganther really isn't a full time starter type RB and they will pursue one in the offseason. I love my boy Portis but it might be time to move on

 

[Sidewinder16]

From Zorn today:

There's other stuff in that link...

Including:

On if Ganther is a 16-game starter: I view him as a guy who comes in to help us out.

I read that to say that Portis isn't going anywhere.

or that Ganther really isn't a full time starter type RB and they will pursue one in the offseason. I love my boy Portis but it might be time to move on

Possibly, but when I read between those lines it sounds to me like he's saying the backs they already have (Portis, Betts, Cartwright) are all they need going in to the future.Whether Zorn is quoting the party line or whether that's his own opinion is beyond me.

 

[fatness]

But given the Redskins' disappointing 4-9 season and the fact that the team has won just one playoff game since he arrived in a 2004 trade with Denver, Portis said he would understand if he became part of sweeping changes to the roster.

"I would love to be here," Portis said. "I'm grateful of everything this organization [has] done for me. At the same time, it's just understanding the business side of things. I could be selfish and say: 'Oh, man, look at my production. Look at what I've done.' But we don't have anything to show for my production. So if it happened, it happened, and I can understand that."

Portis interview

Portis said he thought last week that he would be cleared to play against Oakland on Sunday, but he still has trouble focusing his right eye, and doctors told him they wouldn't be comfortable with him playing. "Is it scary?" he said. "Of course." But he said he is comfortable with the club's decision to end his season -- "Why risk it?" -- even if that decision brings up the possibility he will never again appear in a Washington uniform.

"If I have played my last game as a Redskin," Portis said, "I would like the fans here to remember, on Sunday I gave you everything I had."

 

[fatness]

Vinny Cerrato, that cad, flirted heavily with NFL-quarterback-to-be Jimmy Clausen on Friday. As usual, the team architect forgot Jason Campbell ever existed, continually pining for something better just two days before the most loyal employee in the locker room went out and helped guide this hard-times franchise to its first road victory in almost 13 months.

Cerrato's crime may have only been a harmless interview with the Notre Dame junior on his weekly radio show. But this comes after dalliances with Mark Sanchez and Jay Cutler last spring -- when he felt he could trade up, jettison the only Redskin behind center in 10 years to start and finish a 16-game season. Just last month, Cerrato flew to see his old college coach Mack Brown at Texas, where Colt McCoy bedazzled the brain trust the day before the Cowboys game.

Call it bona fide scouting or due diligence by the Redskins' executive vice president of football operations. Or forge whatever rationale needed to hide the truth:

Campbell was never wanted. He could march his team downfield every week for four touchdowns, like Sunday against the Raiders in Washington's most one-sided victory of the two-years-and-out Jim Zorn era. He could come into the game as the fifth-most sacked quarterback in the NFL, dodging large, menacing men paid to hurt him -- behind a duct-tape offensive line that many of those large, menacing men use like Rock Creek Parkway at rush hour -- and it still wouldn't matter.

Article by Mike Wise, praising Jason Campbell, justifiably.

For all the disloyalty showed Jason Campbell by the people who pay his salary this season, the only thing he did in return was help save the GM's job.

 

[fatness]

Holmgren's probably going to the Browns.

That's one down. Schottenheimer was blasting the Skins recently so I figure he's out. I don't see any way Cowher would come here with the existing ####ed-up management style. Dungy doesn't seem interested in unretiring (man oh man would I love to see Dungy coach the Redskins, he reminds me of Gibbs when Gibbs was good).

Looks like we're down to:

Shanahan and Vinnie

or

Some nobody and Vinnie

 

[T Bell]

Holmgren's probably going to the Browns.

That's one down. Schottenheimer was blasting the Skins recently so I figure he's out. I don't see any way Cowher would come here with the existing ####ed-up management style. Dungy doesn't seem interested in unretiring (man oh man would I love to see Dungy coach the Redskins, he reminds me of Gibbs when Gibbs was good).

Looks like we're down to:

Shanahan and Vinnie

or

Some nobody and Vinnie

Meet the new nobody.Same as the old nobody.

 

[TankRizzo]

Meet the new nobody.Same as the old nobody.

I really can't imagine Zorn being back.