ShaHBucks
Footballguy
sacks > INT You have to pick one.
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** Official 2014 Philadelphia Eagles Thread ** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Awful Waffle
- Start date
babydemon90
Footballguy
No, there were times he definately needed to get rid of the ball quicker. Yes, it's far better then making bad decisions and throwing it into coverage. But sometimes you throw the ball away, or out of bounds where no one can get it, etc...
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
TMZ doesn't follow him around to parties, but this guy could go undrafted if you're a Manziel fan. He's not as flashy as a runner. Probably a high 4.5 or low 4.6 guy. Solid resume. http://draftbreakdown.com/video/connor-shaw-vs-georgia-2013/
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I posted this already. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/440420-aaron-rodgers-fever-five-reasons-why-green-bays-new-king-is-over-rated/page/2-5yards is still better than a INT. You can't as for much more from someone coming off of an historic season. Take away the sacks and up goes the picks.
jasvic
Footballguy
No one is disputing that, but you're assuming he's saying throw the ball up for grabs instead of taking a sack. There's been several times he had 7 seconds to throw and instead took a sack. After 5 (or maybe sooner) he should be looking to throw the ball where no one can get it. 0 yards is better than -5. It's Mike Vick disease, always looking to make a big play instead of living to fight next down. Sometimes Foles does that well, others he holds way too long and takes unnecessary sacks. He's young, just something he should work on.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
What I'm saying is stop nitpicking. It's pretty obvious he took a lot of sacks. That's why you hear it so often. What's not obvious is that he is willing to go throught 2-3+ progressions before he throws the ball away and that he isn't willing to put the ball in the other teams hand. Foles was brilliant this year in that regard. We'll be more than fine if he plays this way for the rest of his career.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Guys like this I just want to see more of. I want to see what the reports are out of camp and how much better he has looked before I make a prediction on his numbers.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Anyone ever figure out the James Casey situation?
He was only in on 157 offensive plays (like 15%).
He was only in on 157 offensive plays (like 15%).
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jasvic
Footballguy
And again, no one is saying he sucks because of it, but it's something he can get better at. Foles and Kelly themselves will tell you the same thing, they won't settle for good enough, they want to always get better. Pointing out flaws that he can improve on isn't a bad thing.
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Insein
Footballguy
My guess is they signed him thinking he'd play a big part but then they drafted Ertz. So that combibed with Celek picking it up quickly pretty much ended Casey before he began. Just a guess.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
What do you guys this of the recent coaching changes? I have looked at the asst yet. I was looking at the HC in the division. CK resume is far more impressive than Garrett and Gruden. He has more experience to say the least. I think Gruden put in some time in the AFL, but not much. He was obviously hired because of his name. But we're talking about two decades worth of experience in Chips favor. Garrett F's up all the time. He's still being groomed if you listen to Jerry. Chip was coaching when this guy was in the league. Tom Coughlin is pushing 70. He could have lost his wits for all we know.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/KellCh0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GarrJa0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJa0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CougTo0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/KellCh0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GarrJa0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJa0.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CougTo0.htm
Awful Waffle
Footballguy
Yeah, when FA started, they obviously had no clue who would be available in the draft. I'm guessing they had Ertz as a 1st round lock and didn't think he'd be available at the top of round 2. I thought they'd use a lot more 2 TE sets early in the season, especially since the #3 WR (Avant) isn't anything special. But interestingly, after the Saints game, someone interviewed Ertz and he said they didn't use as many 2 TE sets early on because he wasn't very good at the end of preseason and so the team didn't have confidence in using 2 TE's. Which to me says Ertz was already ahead of Casey before the season started. They've got about $8 million invested in Celek and Casey for the 2014 season. As much as I like Casey, doesn't make much sense to pay him when he's #3 on the depth chart. It's also a strong draft for TE's if they are so inclined. And one last thing about TE's, it'll be interesting to see if Chip takes a gamble on former Duck Colt Lyerla. Super athlete with tons of baggage (arrested for cocaine possession this season after he was kicked off the team) but 1st round talent.
I wouldn't complain about either of them but I'm much more of a ward guy eagles need someone who can lay the lumber
Not saying he isn't a leader but when I hear the young players talking about leaders I keep hearing Ryans and Barwins name. The only guy I remember talking about Cole as a leader was Babin and he never learned to be a team player.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
So we picked Graham over Earl Thomas and Henery over Richard Sherman....ouch
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Its revisionist history at it's finest but I thought that was interesting. We even picked Henery over Julius Thomas
I don't get when people say this. No one has a crystal ball and can predict perfectly how well someone will turn out. 31 Other teams passed on Sherman in the 4th round, and more then half the league passed on him in the 5th round. Doesn't mean every single one of them is dumb.
Could make a very long list of players drafted before our guys who have turned out worse too.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Read the post above yours from me...
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Insein
Footballguy
The Sherman one is but Earl Thomas is right up there with taking Mike Mamula over Warren Sapp. Obvious to everyone at the time except the front office.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
But he can throw hard and run!
The hype he has should be going to the QB that won the game yesterday
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Why? He was at home. If this game was in SF the outcome would have been different. Kaepernick carried that SF offense.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I dont know what the outcome would have been in SF. He carried a very average looking offense, I'm not sure if that's good or bad. His last 3 drives of the game went INT, fumble and INT. My issue with him remains the same--his hype doesnt match his play.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
It's not even close. He has 5 games with over 300 yards passing and 14 games with under 200 yards passing and averaging 38 yards a game rushing. I just don't get all the love.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
It's over, Johnny. It's over.
Insein
Footballguy
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
There was a lot of backlash against JPP before the draft, "experts" declaring him overrated.
And I know Didinger was one of the main drivers of the Earl Thomas bandwagon, plus Dawkins had recently left, so when the trade up happened I think a lot of people's first instincts at the time was Thomas
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
He was just as big as Dwight Freeney
Insein
Footballguy
That was the draft that everyone thought they had learned there lesson on not replacing Dawkins. Earl Thomas sitting there and the Eagles jumped up ahead of the only other Team interested him (Sea). So it looked like a no brainer. Instead they took a guy who would have been there at their pick, was touted as 2nd round at best until that week and was a project OLB conversion to DE. Basically an Andy Reid special. Then they doubled down on Nate Allen. An ok player in college with upside. Another Andy Reid special.
JPP was raw and no one knew if he'd turn out to be a player. I think a lot of credit has to go to the Giants Dline coaching staff there. There were a lot of skeptics on him.
Earl Thomas had all the makings of a stud. Only Eric Berry was rated higher but it was very close when draft day came. Thomas closed the gap. KC took Berry at 5 and Thomas went 14.
Seahawks got Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate and Kam Chancellor in the 2010 Draft.
Eagles got Brandon Graham, Nate Allen, Daniel Teo' Nesheim, Tevard Lindley, Keenan Clayton, Mike Kafka, Clay Harbor, Ricky Sapp, Riley Cooper, Charles Scott, and Jamar Cheney. Only 2 guys have given us anything and one of those isn't even in the league anymore (Cheney).
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Right, I remember now.
At BEST a 2nd round grade? Not many had him as a 3rd round grade, and most had him as a 1st/2nd round grade, (2nd round before the last few weeks) so not sure how this is accurate.
"Eagles Move Up - DE Brandon Graham Posted by Tommy Lawlor at 9:05 PM 0 comments ***
The Eagles gave up 24, 70, and 87 to move up to pick 12 and take Michigan DE Brandon Graham. This is a good move. We needed to boost the pass rush. Graham was one of the best rushers in the draft class. We were able to move up and get him without having to sacrifice our 2nd round picks. That gives us a chance to be active on Friday. We don't have a 3rd rounder now, but could easily move down and pick one up. We can play the board. Tapp is our LDE. Cole is the man on the right side. Graham becomes a key backup. He also can move inside to DT in some passing situations. Here is the report I wrote up for ScoutsNotebook: Relentless and disruptive defender. Led the nation in TFLs in 2009 with 26. Finished his career with an amazing total of 56. Athletic edge rusher who is more fast than quick. Michigan moved him around to keep teams from gameplanning too much. Graham played both DE spots. Slides inside to DT at times. Fights off cut blocks. Uses his hands well. Beat Bulaga for a sack in the Iowa game. Used good dip move. Beat Bulaga to the inside for another sack. Got the RT off balance, threw him to the ground, and hit the QB. Uses his hands well. Fights to hold the point on run plays. Quick, but not explosive. Mixes in some bull rushes. There were questions about his height. Measured in at 6013. That means he's almost 6'1 1/2. That's acceptable for a 4-3 DE. There will be plenty of 3-4 teams who value him as a LB. His size and build will be perfect for some schemes. He can play in space if needed. Made a real impressive play against Terrell Pryor in the OSU game. Pryor was on the run. Graham showed great agility and COD skills to handle the fakes and still make a solid tackle in space. Graham is an athletic defende and a top flight pass rusher. His ability showed up in workouts as well. Ran a 4.71 at the Combine. Had a solid showing at the Combine. Only came up short in the VJ (31.5). Great career production. 29.5 sacks and 8 FFs. Had a monster performance at the Senior Bowl, both practices and in the game. Looked like a dominant player. 1st round prospect. Could go real high if teams are okay with his size and build. Good start to the 2010 draft"
Adam_Schefter: "Brandon Graham is the best pass rusher in this draft, My prediction: Graham will win Defensive Rookie of the Year. #nfldraft Kiper mocked Graham at #11. Gosselin had him #10. I don't know he would have been there anywhere near #24"
Jason Wood: "Why are people acting like this was a reach? All the premier draftniks had him gone by 13...he's an elite 4-3 end (projected).
And as much as I would like Earl Thomas, he's not a Top 12 type of player. I thought we might get him in the 20s"
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Insein
Footballguy
ESPN Mock Drafts 2010Adam_Schefter: "Brandon Graham is the best pass rusher in this draft, My prediction: Graham will win Defensive Rookie of the Year. #nfldraft Kiper mocked Graham at #11. Gosselin had him #10. I don't know he would have been there anywhere near #24"
Jason Wood: "Why are people acting like this was a reach? All the premier draftniks had him gone by 13...he's an elite 4-3 end (projected).
McShay 12/15/09 #1 - Earl Thomas 14th, Brandon Graham (Not in 1st round)
Kiper 1/20/10 #1 - Earl Thomas - 16th, Brandon Graham 32nd
McShay 2/10/10 #2- ET 20th, BG 22nd
Kiper 2/17/10 #2 - ET (not in 1st round), BG 22nd
McShay 3/11/10 #3 - ET 10th, BG 22nd
Kiper 3/11/10 #3 - ET 27th, BG 22nd
McShay 4/7/10 #4 - ET 10th, BG 19th
Kiper 4/7/10 #4 - ET 11th, BG 19th
McShay 4/19/10 #5 - ET 14th, BG 16th
Kiper 4/22/10 #5 - ET 14th, BG 19th
McShay 4/22/10 #6 - ET 14th, BG 19th
Plus this Scouts Inc blurb on 4/21/10
They had Graham pegged as a late first rounder until the last few weeks. Earl Thomas was going in the mid to early first for most of the post combine draft process.
Philadelphia Eagles
Record: 11-5 | Needs: OLB, G, DC, OT/G, FS
Earl Thomas, S, Texas
Again, we like the Eagles to go after Thomas and use some of their many picks to get him. It might happen much higher than No. 24, but in essence they would be using this pick combined with others to bring him into the fold.
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
The only reason I brought it up was he was a top notch OLB prospect and PFF raves about his effency as a pass rusher.
With the Colts taking Jerry Hughes Idk if Graham makes it to the second. Hughes actually resurrected his career with double digit sacks this year in Buf after getting traded. He was considered a huge bust as well even though he was stuck behind two of the greates pass rushers in this era. It would kill me to see Graham do that for another team with that being such a need.
With the Colts taking Jerry Hughes Idk if Graham makes it to the second. Hughes actually resurrected his career with double digit sacks this year in Buf after getting traded. He was considered a huge bust as well even though he was stuck behind two of the greates pass rushers in this era. It would kill me to see Graham do that for another team with that being such a need.
I'm confused... you said before the last few weeks he was a 2nd round AT BEST, and now you're saying he was a late first rounder before the last few weeks? I know you exaggerated for affect, but those are two very different statements. Your statement that he would be there at pick 24 is completely absurd, even with your mock results you showed.
Also, Mayock's final mock draft had him going at #11.
Graham wasn't making it to the 24th pick on almost ANYONE's draft board. If you go back and read the 2010 forum, most fans were happy with the move. Deranged Hermit said he was the teams #1 DE and that other teams coveted him in the middle of the first.... and he raved about the pick. As did Jason Wood, and many other posters, especially after seeing Mayock (who is usually pretty darn accurate) put him at #11 overall.
Hindsight is 20/20, it seems ridiculous to be saying that was a bad pick, when at the time most analysts and fans were happy with the pick. Of course it didn't work out, but history would be totally changed. Maybe we would have done better and had a worse draft pick and never gotten Foles. Maybe our D with E.Thomas would have been good enough to get us into the playoffs the last few years and Andy kept his job and we would be mediocre again for years. Everything could have changed, and I'm pretty sure we are all happy with where this team is right now.... it could have been a lot worse had we selected Thomas over Graham. At the time, the pick was great... it didn't work out, but we need to move on and be happy things went that way and we have the team we do now.
Insein
Footballguy
The problem we had at the time was that DE was not a need. They drafted so many failed DE's in the first. They obviously felt it was a need though because they just cut Babin who then blew up and drafted Graham who they then proceeded to not play for much of the year at DE. They just could not get out of their own way.
Their is no hindsight 20/20 in this case. We needed a stud safety. They moved up in a position to get one and then drafted a DE.
And yes, we may have had Andy for a bit longer but whatever. It still stings. Just like Mamula over Sapp stings.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Reading this made me think of these post again. http://chipwagon.typepad.com/eagles/2014/01/touchdowns-instead-of-field-goals.html
Just seems like one of those "it's a good call if it works, bad if it doesn't". Payton is always praised for the balls he had to onside kick to start 2nd half of the superbowl. Had it not worked, it would have been one of the WORST coaching decisions ever. The result doesn't always make the decision good/bad. If Graham became the stud or DPOY that many fans/experts/analysts predicted he would be, we'd be praising the pick, but because he turned out worse then ANYONE expected, we re-live this bad decision for years and years.
Just think we can't go back, and going back and making that might have made us an Andy-coached, Vick-led, 9 win team again with not much to look forward to... I'm pretty happy with the team the way it is right now and wouldn't change too much about the past as it could totally change the current situation.
Insein
Footballguy
Or Andy still would have failed anyway because of incredibly poor coaching and now we'd have Earl Thomas on a Chip Kelly team instead of nobody.
Yea it's all what if but it's still one of the biggest bone head decisions in draft history. To not just make the wrong pick with the obvious glaring need in front of our face and the BPA sitting ahead of "their guy" on pretty much every draft board, but to trade up to get the guy.
