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Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (3 Viewers)

It's not easy to make me sit back and think "well, maybe Trump's not such an awful choice after all."  Cruz gets me there. 
:lmao:

And you just know there have got to be some in the "establishment" thinking the same thing.
As they should be.  If this isn't a wake up call for the GOP there will never be one.  The question has always been, who are you going to replace Trump with?  Well, Cruz apparently.  Hope they're happy with that because the race to the bottom just got significantly more competitive.  Hillary, Cruz, Trump.....yikes!

 
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I never thought there would be a reason to vote by time it got to NY. I'm probably voting Cruz but might still go with Kasich. 

 
Love to see an exit poll of what proportion of Cruz's votes were simply people voting against Trump and would not actually want Cruz for the nominee.
:hey:   As I posted above.. 99.9% sure I'll be voting 3rd party come November as I simply could not vote for Cruz, Trump, Hillary or Bernie..

 
I don't know, it very much feels like rooting for Al Qaeda over ISIS.  :shrug:
If the GOP gave us better choices I'd take them.. I voted for Cruz yesterday ONLY to make it difficult for Trump to get the delegates needed before the convention..

I'd much rather have voted for Kasich but at this point that would have been a "wasted" vote so did my part to disrupt the Trump :tfp:

 
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I came out and made the declaration that I would never vote for a Clinton or Bush again.   I plan on voting Gary Johnson but if it's Hillary vs Cruz it is going to be really tough to do that.    

I don't like the idea of Hillary as president but Cruz as president would sicken me.   

 
Definitely voting Hillary if Cruz is the nominee. I don't think he will be but then again I never thought Trump would last past the first primary/caucus either.

 
I thought you were a Trump/Romney guy? Solidly anti-Trump now?
Nah, I was a Rubio guy. I would love it if Romney comes in the save the day though. I was open to Trump when the campaign began but he has yet to show any grasp on any issue. I can't vote for him.

 
I actually think a Ted Cruz presidency would be more deleterious to the country than a Trump presidency. 

Anyone else think so?
I agree. Trump, for all his warts and gaffs, is flexible and is a moderate. Cruz is not. He has made it clear he is a Christian first and a politician second. He will lean hard right and believe me this is because God commands him to. 

America hasn't got to known him real well yet because Trump has overshadowed him, but once they do, people will be begging for Trump. 

 
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I agree. Trump, for all his warts and gaffs, is flexible and is a moderate. Cruz is not. He has made it clear he is a Christian first and a politician second. He will lean hard right and believe me this is because God commands him to. 

America hasn't got to known him real well yet because Trump has overshadowed him, but once they do, people will be begging for Trump. 
Sorry but :lmao:

He is NOT flexible.. Unless you know something about his bedroom ability, and if so please keep that to yourself!!

He is the definition of "My way or the highway" .. Go read up on his "policy" on how he'll Make Mexico pay for the wall..

The Republican presidential candidate's campaign said in a memo that if elected in November, Trump would use a U.S. anti-terrorism law to cut off such money transfers unless Mexico made a one-time payment of $5 billion to $10 billion for the wall.
Bully tactics period.. He thinks he can "negotiate" with other countries like he runs a business .. Bully them into doing it his way..

Then go read how he reacts to not getting his way.

Lyin' Ted Cruz had the Governor of Wisconsin, many conservative talk radio show hosts, and the entire party apparatus behind him.  
:cry:

 
Sorry but :lmao:

He is NOT flexible.. Unless you know something about his bedroom ability, and if so please keep that to yourself!!

He is the definition of "My way or the highway" .. Go read up on his "policy" on how he'll Make Mexico pay for the wall..

Bully tactics period.. He thinks he can "negotiate" with other countries like he runs a business .. Bully them into doing it his way..

Then go read how he reacts to not getting his way.

:cry:
While I agree that Trump is a my way or the highway guy, his way seems to flip flop depending on what group he's trying to impress.  Cruz has had his heels dug in on his lunatic fringe rightie policie3s since the beginning of time.  I can't think of two more hateable candidates.  I seriously dislike Hillary, but it's almost like the right is making me vote for her.

 
Sorry but :lmao:

He is NOT flexible.. Unless you know something about his bedroom ability, and if so please keep that to yourself!!

He is the definition of "My way or the highway" .. Go read up on his "policy" on how he'll Make Mexico pay for the wall..

Bully tactics period.. He thinks he can "negotiate" with other countries like he runs a business .. Bully them into doing it his way..

Then go read how he reacts to not getting his way.

:cry:
While I agree that Trump is a my way or the highway guy, his way seems to flip flop depending on what group he's trying to impress.  Cruz has had his heels dug in on his lunatic fringe rightie policie3s since the beginning of time.  I can't think of two more hateable candidates.  I seriously dislike Hillary, but it's almost like the right is making me vote for her.
And unfortunately, I agree with that statement :bag:    Hilary is a conniving, lying *itch.. But at least with her you know what you are getting..

Imagine if Cruz or Trump wins, and the House and Senate stay in GOP control..  :scared:

 
There's a great video of him seeing a guy with a Kevin from The Office sign and pausing for just a moment to acknowledge how great it is. It's one only two times I've thought he seemed vaguely human- the other was when he knew the My Little Pony characters, which I could relate to as a father of a 3 year old girl.

 
There's a great video of him seeing a guy with a Kevin from The Office sign and pausing for just a moment to acknowledge how great it is. It's one only two times I've thought he seemed vaguely human- the other was when he knew the My Little Pony characters, which I could relate to as a father of a 3 year old girl.
You didn't like his Simpsons impressions? :mellow:

 
Trump is obviously completely unfit to be president but if the second choice for the GOP is a closet dominionist, then party supporters really need to think about their future national relevance. The country is becoming more secular and more liberal; even the red states aren't the bastion of conservative religiosity they once were.

 
Trump is obviously completely unfit to be president but if the second choice for the GOP is a closet dominionist, then party supporters really need to think about their future national relevance. The country is becoming more secular and more liberal; even the red states aren't the bastion of conservative religiosity they once were.
They'll never learn.. Huntsman was their best candidate before.. Same with Kasich with this cycle..

But they both have shown the ability to work across the aisle and the GOP establishment shows no interest in that. :thumbdown:

 
There's a great video of him seeing a guy with a Kevin from The Office sign and pausing for just a moment to acknowledge how great it is. It's one only two times I've thought he seemed vaguely human- the other was when he knew the My Little Pony characters, which I could relate to as a father of a 3 year old girl.
His Princess Bride shtick is pretty good. 

 
My take is that none of the candidates get to 1,237 so there is no consensus candidate on the first ballot.  The establishment takes the position that the candidates have all been rejected by the people because they didn't get to 1,237 after all the primaries/caucuses.  The establishment then nominates Paul Ryan - who, much like the Speaker position, says he doesn't want to be the nominee but ends up accepting out of "duty" to the party.  The Trump and Cruz people freak out and don't vote for Ryan.  GOP loses. 

Establishment won't care because they were going to lose with Trump or Cruz anyway.  They can then spend the next four years criticizing Hillary, the Dems and take their shot in four more years with someone else.  The point is they stay relevant during the four years Hillary is in office and remain in positions of power.  If Trump got elected he wouldn't be listening to the establishment strategists, lobbyists, pollsters, donors, etc.  So they would lose relevance/power over the next 4-8 years without control over the President. Cruz would do things "his way" as well although not to the extent Trump would.  That is why the establishment has never liked Cruz - he doesn't play by their rules.  They only back him now because he is a way to block Trump from getting to 1,237 so they can handpick another nominee at the convention.

Problem is if the establishment goes the contested convention route and handpicks someone like Ryan then Cruz likely resurfaces in 2020 and runs for President again.  He can argue the nomination was stolen from him and he would have beaten Hillary.  Voters who don't want the establishment will likely vote for him again.  (Trump likely be out in 2020). So the frustrated GOP base will still have Cruz as an option in 2020 to push back at the establishment.  If the establishment wanted to clear the decks for 2020 they should nominate  Cruz at the convention. Trump can bolt and go third party, and the GOP with Cruz as its candidate loses.  That sets up the table so that in 2020 the establishment can say to the people we tried your option with Cruz and he lost so he is now a tainted candidate we can't support in 2020.  Trump bolted the party so we need to get back to a true conservative option for the GOP to support in 2020 - then they pull out someone like Ryan, or whoever they want at that point and support him.  They get "their" party back that way rather than steamrolling Cruz and Trump at a convention and handpicking someone (who will lose anyway so why not have Cruz be the sacrificial lamb). 

 
My take is that none of the candidates get to 1,237 so there is no consensus candidate on the first ballot.  The establishment takes the position that the candidates have all been rejected by the people because they didn't get to 1,237 after all the primaries/caucuses.  The establishment then nominates Paul Ryan - who, much like the Speaker position, says he doesn't want to be the nominee but ends up accepting out of "duty" to the party.  The Trump and Cruz people freak out and don't vote for Ryan.  GOP loses. 

Establishment won't care because they were going to lose with Trump or Cruz anyway.  They can then spend the next four years criticizing Hillary, the Dems and take their shot in four more years with someone else.  The point is they stay relevant during the four years Hillary is in office and remain in positions of power.  If Trump got elected he wouldn't be listening to the establishment strategists, lobbyists, pollsters, donors, etc.  So they would lose relevance/power over the next 4-8 years without control over the President. Cruz would do things "his way" as well although not to the extent Trump would.  That is why the establishment has never liked Cruz - he doesn't play by their rules.  They only back him now because he is a way to block Trump from getting to 1,237 so they can handpick another nominee at the convention.

Problem is if the establishment goes the contested convention route and handpicks someone like Ryan then Cruz likely resurfaces in 2020 and runs for President again.  He can argue the nomination was stolen from him and he would have beaten Hillary.  Voters who don't want the establishment will likely vote for him again.  (Trump likely be out in 2020). So the frustrated GOP base will still have Cruz as an option in 2020 to push back at the establishment.  If the establishment wanted to clear the decks for 2020 they should nominate  Cruz at the convention. Trump can bolt and go third party, and the GOP with Cruz as its candidate loses.  That sets up the table so that in 2020 the establishment can say to the people we tried your option with Cruz and he lost so he is now a tainted candidate we can't support in 2020.  Trump bolted the party so we need to get back to a true conservative option for the GOP to support in 2020 - then they pull out someone like Ryan, or whoever they want at that point and support him.  They get "their" party back that way rather than steamrolling Cruz and Trump at a convention and handpicking someone (who will lose anyway so why not have Cruz be the sacrificial lamb). 
Why would Cruz run as a GOP in 2020?  They already told him no once in your scenario.  Hell, they might not even certify his ballot just to avoid that mess again and tell him to go run on the Tea Party ticket or whatever Trump runs on in 2016.

 
The GOP is screwed either way. The numbers coming out of Wisconsin last night were very telling. The number of people who said they voted for Trump and if he didn't get the nomination,  they either wouldn't vote or they would vote for 3rd party,  was significant. The same question was asked of Cruz supporters  and the numbers were almost identical to the answers Trump supporters gave. 

 When you look at the current situation (and I know most don't agree with me) the GOP should have backed Trump understanding the number of voters he was bringing to the table. He has already shown that he will flip-flop and change his platform.  They should've got behind him  and even if he was a puppet,  they could've gotten things done.

Now he is such damaged goods (A lot of it self-inflicted)  and they have put their eggs in a basket they don't want. There's  no coming back from this. The Establishment has polarized so much of their own party that IMO not only will Clinton easily win the White House, but they've created an untenable position for their candidates on the lower elections. 

 
Why would Cruz run as a GOP in 2020?  They already told him no once in your scenario.  Hell, they might not even certify his ballot just to avoid that mess again and tell him to go run on the Tea Party ticket or whatever Trump runs on in 2016.
He can't win as a third party candidate and as a GOP candidate he can try to win over the folks that are dissatisfied with the GOP establishment and were Trump supporters in 2016.  There is a significant chunk of the GOP electorate that could support an anti-establishment candidate in 2020 and without Trump taking those votes they could gravitate to Cruz as that person,  If they do he could get enough delegates to force the GOP to run him as the nominee in 2020.  Obviously a lot can happen before 2020 but there is a path for Cruz to run again as a GOP candidate in 2020.

 
The GOP is screwed either way. The numbers coming out of Wisconsin last night were very telling. The number of people who said they voted for Trump and if he didn't get the nomination,  they either wouldn't vote or they would vote for 3rd party,  was significant. The same question was asked of Cruz supporters  and the numbers were almost identical to the answers Trump supporters gave. 

 When you look at the current situation (and I know most don't agree with me) the GOP should have backed Trump understanding the number of voters he was bringing to the table. He has already shown that he will flip-flop and change his platform.  They should've got behind him  and even if he was a puppet,  they could've gotten things done.

Now he is such damaged goods (A lot of it self-inflicted)  and they have put their eggs in a basket they don't want. There's  no coming back from this. The Establishment has polarized so much of their own party that IMO not only will Clinton easily win the White House, but they've created an untenable position for their candidates on the lower elections. 
It was something like 18% for "Trump Supporters" who would vote for 3rd party if he didn't get the nomination and 17% of Cruz Supporters..

So Trump yelling from the roof top of him taking "All" his voters to a 3rd party run if the GOP "steals" the nomination from him is, like most of the other things he says, :hophead:

 
He can't win as a third party candidate and as a GOP candidate he can try to win over the folks that are dissatisfied with the GOP establishment and were Trump supporters in 2016.  There is a significant chunk of the GOP electorate that could support an anti-establishment candidate in 2020 and without Trump taking those votes they could gravitate to Cruz as that person,  If they do he could get enough delegates to force the GOP to run him as the nominee in 2020.  Obviously a lot can happen before 2020 but there is a path for Cruz to run again as a GOP candidate in 2020.
This is almost a Higgsian level of stupid right here.  Are you a Cruz person?  I didn't know there was one on here.

There is ZERO way the GOP even allows Cruz to run in 2020.  They simply will just say, no. Go run 3rd party or get with the program.

 
This is almost a Higgsian level of stupid right here.  Are you a Cruz person?  I didn't know there was one on here.

There is ZERO way the GOP even allows Cruz to run in 2020.  They simply will just say, no. Go run 3rd party or get with the program.
They can't keep him off the ballots in the GOP primary or exclude him from caucuses.  Heck, they had 17 candidates to start the cycle.  So I don't see how they can tell him "no you can't run in 2020". 

If enough people vote for him in caucuses/primaries where he reaches the level of committed delegates in 2020 the GOP has to nominate him.  

And no I am not a Cruz supporter.   I was just trying to make the point that he could stick around in 2020 if the establishment hand picks someone else at the convention and there are ways to taint him for 2020.  If you don't agree with me so be it, my life will still go on.

 
It was something like 18% for "Trump Supporters" who would vote for 3rd party if he didn't get the nomination and 17% of Cruz Supporters..

So Trump yelling from the roof top of him taking "All" his voters to a 3rd party run if the GOP "steals" the nomination from him is, like most of the other things he says, :hophead:
Trump won't run third party. 

However, you do omit the other important number,  the 10% of voters who say they just won't vote if their guy isn't the nominee. 

So we have 18% voting Gary or whoever, 10% staying home and then the 8-10% who said they would actually vote Clinton. When added up, that's significant. 

I agree with some that maybe the Republican big wigs are content with the evil they know in Clinton and they will roll the dice with her; however, the collateral damage they are doing to their candidates in the other elections is also going to be significant. 

 
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The GOP is screwed either way. The numbers coming out of Wisconsin last night were very telling. The number of people who said they voted for Trump and if he didn't get the nomination,  they either wouldn't vote or they would vote for 3rd party,  was significant. The same question was asked of Cruz supporters  and the numbers were almost identical to the answers Trump supporters gave. 

 When you look at the current situation (and I know most don't agree with me) the GOP should have backed Trump understanding the number of voters he was bringing to the table. He has already shown that he will flip-flop and change his platform.  They should've got behind him  and even if he was a puppet,  they could've gotten things done.

Now he is such damaged goods (A lot of it self-inflicted)  and they have put their eggs in a basket they don't want. There's  no coming back from this. The Establishment has polarized so much of their own party that IMO not only will Clinton easily win the White House, but they've created an untenable position for their candidates on the lower elections. 
I note that you and others keep blaming the Republican establishment for this. But it seems to me they are the adults in the room. They told you after 2012 that you had to support immigration reform in order to attract more Latino voters into the party. You refused to listen. They told you it was unwise to shut down the government over Obamacare. You refused to listen. They told you it was stupid to refuse to raise the debt ceiling because you couldn't get your way. You refused to listen. They pointed out that the American people like bipartisanship and wanted you to work together with Obama to get things done. You balked. And you acted outraged and like spoiled children in each instance and refused to compromise. And when the nomination process came around you angrily rejected all of the viable candidates and chose Trump and Cruz. And you're still blaming the establishment for this mess that you caused. 

 
Tim that Is simply not true and you know it. You basically hodgepodged a bunch of positions from different factions of the GOP party and sprinkled in some of your own wish list agenda items in this post 

And BTW I don't know who you keep referring to s "you" I didn't support half these things 

 
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Congratulations Hillary on becoming the first default presidential winner. Don't #### up the country too much. 

 
Sorry but :lmao:

He is NOT flexible.. Unless you know something about his bedroom ability, and if so please keep that to yourself!!

He is the definition of "My way or the highway" .. Go read up on his "policy" on how he'll Make Mexico pay for the wall..

Bully tactics period.. He thinks he can "negotiate" with other countries like he runs a business .. Bully them into doing it his way..

Then go read how he reacts to not getting his way.

:cry:
You're having a hard time justifying your Cruz vote aren't you? 

 
A few years ago I heard Jesse Ventura pitching the idea of including "none of the above" as an option on the ballot.  Imagine what kind of percentages that would command in the upcoming general.  

 
My take is that none of the candidates get to 1,237 so there is no consensus candidate on the first ballot.  The establishment takes the position that the candidates have all been rejected by the people because they didn't get to 1,237 after all the primaries/caucuses.  The establishment then nominates Paul Ryan - who, much like the Speaker position, says he doesn't want to be the nominee but ends up accepting out of "duty" to the party.  The Trump and Cruz people freak out and don't vote for Ryan.  GOP loses. 
GOP loses.  Hillary gets a prosecution referral from the FBI, which Lynch ingores.  Huge national outcry and she's impeached within the first two months and her VP is the new POTUS.  This is fun.  

(Honestly my bet is Trump gets about 1200 pledged delegates and is goes over the top on the first ballot). Very similar to McGovern (he was about 40 votes shy).

 
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They can't keep him off the ballots in the GOP primary or exclude him from caucuses.  Heck, they had 17 candidates to start the cycle.  So I don't see how they can tell him "no you can't run in 2020". 

If enough people vote for him in caucuses/primaries where he reaches the level of committed delegates in 2020 the GOP has to nominate him.  

And no I am not a Cruz supporter.   I was just trying to make the point that he could stick around in 2020 if the establishment hand picks someone else at the convention and there are ways to taint him for 2020.  If you don't agree with me so be it, my life will still go on.


No, they don't have to do any of this. It's a political party.  Nothing says you have to belong to a political party to run.  If you want their help in getting on ballots you run under their rules.  If you can manage this yourself and the 10000000000s of stupid little rules in every state then you are more than welcome to go elsewhere.  GOP is well within their rights to tell someone to pound sand and run as an independent.  

If the GOP passes on Cruz with the second ballot he is absolutely not getting certified to run in 2020.  They learned their lesson this last time.  They will marginalize the non-establishment wackos and force them off the ballots, the debates, and the national consciousness of people that punch nothing but R tickets.  If they don't they are doomed to let Hillary get 8 years.

 
Tim that Is simply not true and you know it. You basically hodgepodged a bunch of positions from different factions of the GOP party and sprinkled in some of your own wish list agenda items in this post 

And BTW I don't know who you keep referring to s "you" I didn't support half these things 
VERY :goodposting: The use of "You" was dominant throughout his post.. and yet I'm trying to recall when I said or did any of those things.. :oldunsure:

 
You're having a hard time justifying your Cruz vote aren't you? 
Not all.. I know WHY I voted Cruz.. To do as much as I can do to make sure Trump is not the nominee.. In the end I won't vote for either in the November election.. Just want to help kick Trump to the curb.. :)

 
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While I agree that Trump is a my way or the highway guy, his way seems to flip flop depending on what group he's trying to impress.  Cruz has had his heels dug in on his lunatic fringe rightie policie3s since the beginning of time.  I can't think of two more hateable candidates.  I seriously dislike Hillary, but it's almost like the right is making me vote for her.
He's emphatic about being right, but he's vague about what that means.

A lot of wealthy consultants have made careers out of this skill.

He's a fraud, but Hillary is a crook.  I could never vote fir either one.

 
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GOP loses.  Hillary gets a prosecution referral from the FBI, which Lynch ingores.  Huge national outcry and she's impeached within the first two months and her VP is the new POTUS.  This is fun.  

(Honestly my bet is Trump gets about 1200 pledged delegates and is goes over the top on the first ballot). Very similar to McGovern (he was about 40 votes shy).
I think a real controversy might occur when the press reports Donald has x delegates, say 1190, and he actually comes up with fewer votes on the first ballot because of defections.

 
I think a real controversy might occur when the press reports Donald has x delegates, say 1190, and he actually comes up with fewer votes on the first ballot because of defections.
Very :goodposting: a lot of the delegates are not "set in stone" so they can easily switch on the first ballot alone..

The :shock: the media, and the sheep's that only follow what the media puts on their TV sets, IF that happens will be fun to watch :popcorn:

 
I think a real controversy might occur when the press reports Donald has x delegates, say 1190, and he actually comes up with fewer votes on the first ballot because of defections.
On the first ballot, aren't all 1190 pledged to Trump? On a 2nd ballot, how many of them are, maybe 1/2? That's where Cruz is doing well in getting supporters as these delegates.

If Trump doesn't get to 1237, but 1190, how many unpledged delegates are there (that for whatever reason, don't have to pledge until the convention) for the 1st vote?

It sure seems like Cruz would take a significant bit out of those 1190 on a 2nd (and beyond vote) with his organization while Trump is currently playing catch up.

 

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