Fennis
Footballguy
Donald Trump Hits Back at Ted Cruz Over Private Comments That Went Public
Cruz attacks Trump and Carson and Trump bites back.
Cruz attacks Trump and Carson and Trump bites back.
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Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
If he has the most but not a majority he could go independent as any brokered situation would almost surely go against him.
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
What if they are a good terrorist buying a gun?they can tell someone on that watch list they cannot fly.And you'll have some hillbilly from Texas complaining about taking refugees because it's too easy to get guns in this country....can't make this #### up
hell they can throw them in gitmo without so much as levying an actual charge against them
but dear lord don't keep them from buying guns
-QG
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
This is either:
1) A rare tatical error by Cruz - making a mistake similar to Romney in thinking a closed evemt wouldn't end up on the record.
2) A clever 'mistake' - in that he gets to point that Trump does not have the right temperment and then 'take it back' - without actually taking it back. In the tweet that supposedly walked it back Cruz did not apologize or take back the statement saying Trump has a bad temperment. He instead went after the media and offered vague praise of Trump.
Cruz is clever enough for it to be the latter - he needs to help Trump's numbers go down which he probably thought would have happened by now. This leak came out just 4 days before the next debate. Cruz might just have a trap waiting for Trump to walk into there. We'll see.
-QG
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Why are these candidates afraid to attack Trump's policies and mention him by name? Yes, Trump will respond because that's what he'll do, but his attacks are pathetic.
Cruz did probably make a tactical error based on how he's run so far in not publicly criticizing any other candidate unless it's a specific policy issue (he has gone after Rubio, but on policy). This "attack" on Trump was a passive aggressive attack, but has stirred up Trump to get one of his pathetic Twitter warnings.
I wish these candidates would just keep attacking his policies (or lack there of) - Christie and Cruz should join the others who have been vocal in attacking Trump on that. I still think (maybe hope) that enough attention as we get closer to voting on how Trump is not running on anything other superficial garbage will become clear to voters.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Attacking Trump is political suicide right now. Trump supporters do not care about policies, their prime motivation is fear and anger. They view anyone who attacks Trump as establishment; despite Cruz's anti-establishment position he'd fall into the same category in their eyes.
Also, despite how it may have sounded, I do not believe this was tactical error on Cruz's part. He has played this brilliantly thus far and if you read his recent comments closely nothing he said was a direct attack on Trump. It was very subtle and ultimately I think he was baiting him.
To be clear, I despise Cruz even more so than Trump. He gives off a Sith darklord type of vibe but he's the only one on their side who quickly assessed the situation and tackled it correctly. He's been walking a tight rope and has managed to successfully keep his balance this entire time.
satch
Footballguy
I disagree that attacking Trump is political suicide. I think many Trump supporters know he's a buffoon, and don't really want him to be President, but they love the fact that he has balls. If none of the other candidates has the balls to stand up to a buffoon like Trump then they clearly don't have the balls to be President of the United States.Ted Cruz needs to put Trump in his place and this next debate is the time to do it. But he must commit 100%, and use his masterful speaking ability and knowledge of the issues in doing so. Cruz needs to essentially filibuster at the debate, proving to republican voters that there is a candidate with as just as much strength and conviction as Trump, but who also has the intelligence, respect, and knowledge of the issues to be a great President, not just a rich guy with balls. And there can be zero doubt that Cruz would absolutely embarass Trump in a nationally televised head to head debate.
I think most republican voters are just waiting for one of the other candidates to prove they've got what it takes to lead, and that starts with taking on the schoolyard bully, Donald Trump.
The Commish
Footballguy
How does Cruz "put Trump in his place" when they are essentially one in the same. He's sitting right where he needs to put Trump.
satch
Footballguy
They are "one in the same"? You think Trump is as intelligent and knowledgeable as Cruz regarding the actual issues? You think Trump is as great a speaker as Cruz? You think Trump has as much relevant experience as Cruz? You think Trump could stand toe to toe with Cruz in a debate? Cruz can and should put Trump in his place by making him look like an imbecile next time he says our country's leaders are stupid and/or incompetent. He should make it very clear to republican voters just how disrespectful that kind of statement is to the very office Trump wishes to hold.
Cruz should take a page right out of Trumps book of political incorrectness and say "I know why Donald Trump is leading the polls- because he's got balls. Unfortunately, his balls are bigger than his brain and where I come from that's a dangerous combination. The United States needs a leader with the balls to stand up to ISIS and defeat terrorism, but also the intelligence to know how to actually accomplish those goals. Donald Trump may be a tough talker, but he simply lacks the intelligence and experience to lead this country"
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The Commish
Footballguy
Lots of subjectivity here, so I'll just go with "yes".......until demonstrated otherwise. The solutions I've heard from both are absurd. I'll give you that Cruz is the more polished turd when it comes to speaking, but a turd nonetheless. We see where "great speaker" has gotten us the last 8 years.
If you disagree that their positions are pretty similar (to the point of being close enough to call them "the same"), we can go point by point if you like....would be a fun way to pass the time.
satch
Footballguy
Not necessary, as we agree that their positions are similar as are most positions of all the other republican candidates. Similarly, and also unsurprisingly, the democratic turds share similar positions to each other. As a right leaning independent voter, I share some of Trumps views but they are too extreme. Yes, Cruz holds similar positions but with more realistic views, imo.
As far as the importance of being a good speaker, I do believe it matters. Obama's inability to speak to us, and presumably other foreign leaders in a manner that evokes confidence and strength is a major problem for this country at a time when we need strong leadership. In that regard, Cruz would be a vastly superior President than Trump. Even if you think they're both nut jobs, Cruz is clearly a much more effective speaker and communicator.
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One difference between Trump and all other candidates (probably outside of Carson) is that these people can talk in detail about their policy. Trump talks in high level, soundbytes, but can't get into any detail as to why his policies work because he has no substance behind of any of his comments. Cruz clearly knows policy - now, whether or not his solutions to problems are realistic or not (he'd argue they are, Democrats would not) is a different story, but I think he's the candidate to watch for in terms of if Trump supporters eventually want a candidate who can better defend their believes on how America should move forward. The establishment candidates clearly hate Trump, and Cruz has been walking that fine line of being whatever you need him to be (anti-establishment but with political experience). I don't think he should be laughed at though - or compared to Trump. I think he's much smarter, knows the issues and how to communicate his defense of his positions. I don't think Trump or Carson come close to have this ability. It just comes down to how loyal Trump supporters will be come 45 days from now, and if an establishment candidate emerges from Rubio, Bush or Christie.
The Commish
Footballguy
The difference that I see between the two is simple....Cruz is "smart" enough to wrap his message in political speak. Trump doesn't give a crap and just comes out and says it. This contrast lends to the illusion of the bold IMO. As far as the Democrats, there was a significant difference between Sanders and everyone else. Then, Hillary saw how that was going and began to parrot a lot of what Sanders has said and has supposedly adopted these positions as well. If one believes the crap Hillary is saying, I suppose it would appear that they are similar in the same sort of way that the GOP candidates are, but I don't believe her for a second. Their careers and voting records could not be more different. Their actions suggest they are very different and that's what I'm going off of between them. I don't believe a word Hillary says most of the time.
timschochet
Footballguy
Cruz is a smart politician- compared to Trump. Cruz is a good speaker- compared to Trump.
But that's where it ends. Let's not go overboard here. Ted Cruz is neither a good speaker nor is he particularly a smart politician- the government shutdown that he engineered was terrible. Also somebody made the claim that Cruz has balls. I haven't seen any evidence of this either. In fact he strikes me as especially whiny and smarmy. Paired against a candidate who really does have balls, like Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz is going to get his ### kicked.
But that's where it ends. Let's not go overboard here. Ted Cruz is neither a good speaker nor is he particularly a smart politician- the government shutdown that he engineered was terrible. Also somebody made the claim that Cruz has balls. I haven't seen any evidence of this either. In fact he strikes me as especially whiny and smarmy. Paired against a candidate who really does have balls, like Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz is going to get his ### kicked.
I think you're underestimating him.
Cruz comes across as slimy, etc., but I don't think Clinton comes across much better in matter of trust.
timschochet
Footballguy
I wasn't talking about trust. I was referring to strength, balls, gravitas. She's got it, he doesn't.
I hope you haven't come to that conclusion based on Libya, Russia, or the rise of ISIS.
timschochet
Footballguy
Ah but I have.
satch
Footballguy
Disagree. I've seen and heard Hillary speak for decades and never found her to be impressive in the least. In fact, she comes across as untrustworthy and disingenuine. I've seen and heard Cruz speak at each debate this year and each time have come away impressed with him.I think Cruz would annihilate Hillary.
As far as Cruz having balls? I suppose it comes down to how you define "having balls". If strong convictions, and the willingness and ability to defend those convictions is having balls then I think Cruz qualifies. At first I agreed with what some consider smarminess, but after learning more about him and watching the debates I now see it as confidence, with a dash of cockiness. And I like it.
timschochet
Footballguy
OK. We obviously look at this quite differently. If Cruz wins the nomination (which I still believe is more unlikely than not even though his chances are rising) and Hillary wins hers (very likely at this point but not yet for sure) then we'll find out which of us was more on the mark.
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I keep reading that Cruz can show that he's the more adept politician and that this will somehow win over the Trump supporters. I'm going to say it again, they do not care. In fact, this is what they despise.
satch
Footballguy
This is actually another positive for Cruz. Many of his colleagues don't like him because he's his own man and stands up for what he believes is right, even if it's not necessarily in the best interest of his party, and he doesn't care if they like him. Even if you disagree with what he stands for, it's a respectable trait. In fact, that's what most Americans want, a President who's more concerned with doing what's best for the country, not what's best for Republicans or Democrats.
The Commish
Footballguy
What's the value of "strength, balls, gravitas" built on a house of cards? I can't think it's very much. Using sand as a foundation and all that.....
The Commish
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
or.....he's just an ###hole
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timschochet
Footballguy
Did you read the thread? If it's Cruz vs Hillary, I predict Hillary will win easily. He thinks Cruz will win easily. If it's a close contest we're both wrong. Otherwise one of us will be right.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sadly, I've read the entire thread. So what you're saying is whoever is elected (should it come down to those two) will be the evidence you need to see who has the bigger "balls"? HFS
ok........This is Eminence level reasoning on full display 
satch
Footballguy
Actually, I should've been more clear. I think Cruz would annihilate Hillary in debates, etc. Not necessarily win the election.
I think there's a good chance of this as well. Cruz is very skilled, but also very conservative. Hillary, although playing the role of a far leftist, is probably not more to the left overall than Cruz is to the right so Cruz could very well score points in a debate, but lose because he's playing to a much smaller audience.
satch
Footballguy
Perhaps both. Maybe that's a good thing. This country needs a firm kick in the ###.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
To use Trump's term if art I think Cruz has quite a bit of the pathological disease.
I'm surprised a little that Trump is trying a conventional attack on Cruz (hitting him for being anti-ethanol) - that is an actual issue-based attack which generally has not been Trump's bag.
On a different not for all of his supposed outside status it's clear that Trump has more than a few insider friends somewhere as he was a day or two ahead of the impending bad news for him in the latest Iowa poll. My thoughts are that his field operation is probably chaotic but his media operation clearly laps the field.
-QG
I'm surprised a little that Trump is trying a conventional attack on Cruz (hitting him for being anti-ethanol) - that is an actual issue-based attack which generally has not been Trump's bag.
On a different not for all of his supposed outside status it's clear that Trump has more than a few insider friends somewhere as he was a day or two ahead of the impending bad news for him in the latest Iowa poll. My thoughts are that his field operation is probably chaotic but his media operation clearly laps the field.
-QG
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Most Americans want a president who's more concerned with doing what's best for the country.Most Americans doubt that Ted Cruz will do what's best for the country.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
What's the timeline look like for this? Was Trumps call for a moratorium really before the news of the Iowa poll? I thought it was simultaneous (same day).
As for the tactic itself. If/when his polls really start to slide I'll be ready with my
because it will be ####### glorious.
John Bender
Footballguy
Same could be said for Bernie IMO. If you respect that aspect of him and like what he stands for, you might find him appealing too - just saying.
If you want a TV Dinner microwaved politician like the last 100 years, you probably should decide between Hillary or Bush (or Rubio/Biden/OMalley???). I've been saying it for months - it's really ####### sad that the GOP is not going to give us one of those guys to put against Hillary because it seems their best chance. I can't think of a more perfect scenario than Hillary v Rubio to decide between (for me as I tend to agree with TIm in wanting a straight up the middle kind of Pres)
IF you want someone that's possibly nuts, definitely passionate, and certainly not like anything we've ever seen before, you probably should decide between Bernie or Trump
I think both groups of candidates above are more similar than the folks think in that regard. You've got your straight up the middle folks and your two way out west guys at opposite ends. It's just a matter of what you value more.
I didn't include Cruz because he is some weird uncomfortable amalgam of both with a creepier smile.
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satch
Footballguy
I don't think most Americans know enough about Ted Cruz to arrive at that conclusion, because the mainstream media is obsessed with Donald Trump. Unless, of course, by "most Americans" you mean "Democrats" in which case I'd agree.
timschochet
Footballguy
such as? I see them as almost polar opposites
The Commish
Footballguy
bud29
Footballguy
I seem to recall you being a fan of Rubio, so I'm guessing that factors into your perfect scenario, but I think Kasich or Jeb would be better GOP nominees for someone truly looking for a matchup of moderates in the general election. I think in a "typical" field of candidates, Rubio would seem like one of the more extreme options - but this time around, we have Trump, Cruz, Carson, etc. to put things in perspective.John Bender said:
3C's
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
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