Official 2016 GOP thread: Is it really going to be Donald Trump?? (2 Viewers)

[RnR]

No, that's pretty much being against change. Plus it's a losing proposition in the long run.

Which of these are your referring to, specifically?

I'll tell you what's a losing proposition: The growing entitlement attitude of this country. Time to quit being an enabler.

 

[roadkill1292]

Which of these are your referring to, specifically?

I'll tell you what's a losing proposition: The growing entitlement attitude of this country. Time to quit being an enabler.

Rolling back previous changes isn't a plan for change.

We're not gonna have a choice but to expand entitlements. We'd better figure out how to manage it without going broke.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Meant to post this in here instead of the Hillary thread, but a thought...

What if the GOP to show some unity and cohesion, agreed to dump whatever private speeches they have given as a wedge to get Hillary to release her Wall Street speeches. 

Being against donald hasn't motivated or excited people, but I think the GOP folk are always up for being anti Hillary. 

Might bring the party together a bit while getting the added bonus of making her squirm and maybe taking a toll on her general election chances, which should benefit all the GOP guys

 

[RnR]

Rolling back previous changes isn't a plan for change.

We're not gonna have a choice but to expand entitlements. We'd better figure out how to manage it without going broke.

I tihnk there's a fundamental misunderstanding of change here.

Change does not equal new.

Promising something you can't deliver is a losing strategy. And doubling down to expand it and saying "we have to figure out have to play for it" is not being a progressive voice for change, it's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalalalallalllala" when the adults say there's an issue with the long-term budget.

It's time to grow up and inform the American people that we've got to change the way we conduct business to sustain the standard of excellence this country has exhibited. That may include taking away and/or altering things for future generations that were promised to the current one.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

 

Ross Douthat Verified account ‏@DouthatNYT


Best anti-Trump case for Rubio getting out now isn't Florida; it's that it might help Kasich win Ohio.

- Ding. I've never been sold on the FL argument but this makes more sense to me.

 

[roadkill1292]

I tihnk there's a fundamental misunderstanding of change here.

Change does not equal new.

Promising something you can't deliver is a losing strategy. And doubling down to expand it and saying "we have to figure out have to play for it" is not being a progressive voice for change, it's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalalalallalllala" when the adults say there's an issue with the long-term budget.

It's time to grow up and inform the American people that we've got to change the way we conduct business to sustain the standard of excellence this country has exhibited. That may include taking away and/or altering things for future generations that were promised to the current one.

Yeah, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on things here because we progressives think the adult changes to make include paring the defense budget and raising personal income taxes.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I tihnk there's a fundamental misunderstanding of change here.

Change does not equal new.

Promising something you can't deliver is a losing strategy. 

Like promising to increase military spending while cutting taxes and balancing the budget?

I like Kasich, but if he really wants to be the grown up on the Republican side, be the one to admit that no matter what happens we're going to need to raise taxes over the long term. As it stands his message isn't more realistic or fully baked than Bernie's.

 

[dparker713]

Yeah, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on things here because we progressives think the adult changes to make include paring the defense budget and raising personal income taxes.

The problem isn't income taxes, its cap gains.

 

[The General]

Ok, so let's pretend you're not fishing for a fight.

You're just figuring out there's a fracture in the Republican party? You're just now figuring out Donald isn't the best candidate for the job even though he's ahead in the polls?

I guess I'm struggling to see what original point you're trying to make here.

The anti-establishment vote is very real, and it isn't exactly exclusive to the R side of things this primary season.

I was pointing out how ####ty these candidates are that they can't beat donald.  You responded with some data from Ohio about one of the guys running. That's fantastic for him in Ohio. Wouldn't be shocked if he sells out and takes the VP spot, he's certainly on donald's short list.

Don't really see any argument here that I'm offering.

If you disagree that this is a sad commentary on the state of the republican party then we are in not on the same page.

 

[RnR]

I was pointing out how ####ty these candidates are that they can't beat donald.  You responded with some data from Ohio about one of the guys running. That's fantastic for him in Ohio. Wouldn't be shocked if he sells out and takes the VP spot, he's certainly on donald's short list.

Don't really see any argument here that I'm offering.

If you disagree that this is a sad commentary on the state of the republican party then we are in not on the same page.

You said Kasich sucked and wondered how he ever won any election. That's where the data from Ohio came into play as an appropriate response. Remember?

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that any candidate beats Donald. He has a created a hype machine that is picking up steam at a pace that none of us expected, regardless of political affiliation. I've gone from being very upset about it to being resigned to curious fascination. We'll see what happens.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'll tell you,  if there's one guy I want to make sure the little guy doesn't lose his shirt, it's a billionaire casino owner. 

Hey BF, good zinger, question for you...

-Could anyone not considered filthy rich or lifelong politician actually run and have enough money to win? Could you or I run for President if we wanted to? 

People are limited in how they can respond right now. Trump has funneled a lot of it down his alley. 

 

[RnR]

Yeah, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on things here because we progressives think the adult changes to make include paring the defense budget and raising personal income taxes.

I think adults see that compromise on all budgetary issues is the solution.

Why do you assume I'm against being reasonable about such things?

That being said, I think progressives sometimes underestimate the role national security plays in a stable economy when we play these "what if" games on budget cuts. That's not meant to create fictional boogeymen for a straw man argument, just a commentary that we shouldn't undervalue the role of being the world's biggest and best in such matters.

 

[The General]

You said Kasich sucked and wondered how he ever won any election. That's where the data from Ohio came into play as an appropriate response. Remember?

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that any candidate beats Donald. He has a created a hype machine that is picking up steam at a pace that none of us expected, regardless of political affiliation. I've gone from being very upset about it to being resigned to curious fascination. We'll see what happens.

Ok. That comment was a bit tongue in cheek on my part. Of course these guys are talented politicians. That they can't beat Trump though definitely shows the GOP is in some bad shape.

I was definitely wrong about Trump. Thought he would be out months ago, honestly I think he would say this as well if you hooked him up to a lie detector. He was just in this for self promotion. This "build the wall" nonsense took off and here we are. If a better candidate were there, or perhaps if 2 of the 3 out of Rubio / Cruz / Kasich would have dropped out maybe it wouldn't have gotten this far.

 

[RnR]

Like promising to increase military spending while cutting taxes and balancing the budget?

I like Kasich, but if he really wants to be the grown up on the Republican side, be the one to admit that no matter what happens we're going to need to raise taxes over the long term. As it stands his message isn't more realistic or fully baked than Bernie's.

I don't claim to be a disciple of Kasich ideology or anything, but getting things done matters, being reasonable matters, being willing to compromise matters and being willing to be an American before a Republican/Democrat matters.

I could be wrong, but Kasich seems to be the only person running for president intent on doing all four consistently.

 

[Gr00vus]

Hey BF, good zinger, question for you...

-Could anyone not considered filthy rich or lifelong politician actually run and have enough money to win? Could you or I run for President if we wanted to? 

People are limited in how they can respond right now. Trump has funneled a lot of it down his alley. 

Bernie certainly is making a case that the funding can happen without big/corporate money backing. The lifelong politician thing I'm not sure about though.

 

[snogger]

Ok. That comment was a bit tongue in cheek on my part. Of course these guys are talented politicians. That they can't beat Trump though definitely shows the GOP is in some bad shape.

I was definitely wrong about Trump. Thought he would be out months ago, honestly I think he would say this as well if you hooked him up to a lie detector. He was just in this for self promotion. This "build the wall" nonsense took off and here we are. If a better candidate were there, or perhaps if 2 of the 3 out of Rubio / Cruz / Kasich would have dropped out maybe it wouldn't have gotten this far.

The problem is they didn't take him seriously.. They considered his run for office a joke and figured the people would also and they ignored him until, it seems, is too late.

Truly feel that if he wins the nomination, and then somehow pulls out the win for president, the GOP will watch the House and the Senate flip back to the democrats.. Then in 4 years, when Don decides to not run again, democrats will once again have full control..

 

[flapgreen]

6 people voted in Idaho 

 

[dparker713]

You said Kasich sucked and wondered how he ever won any election. That's where the data from Ohio came into play as an appropriate response. Remember?

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that any candidate beats Donald. He has a created a hype machine that is picking up steam at a pace that none of us expected, regardless of political affiliation. I've gone from being very upset about it to being resigned to curious fascination. We'll see what happens.

He's pulling in like 35% of the vote.  He's hardly some juggernaut.

 

[RnR]

He's pulling in like 35% of the vote.  He's hardly some juggernaut.

I used to say that, too.

He's reached a point at which he's likely to win the nomination... time to accept this as a real thing.

 

[bostonfred]

Hey BF, good zinger, question for you...

-Could anyone not considered filthy rich or lifelong politician actually run and have enough money to win? Could you or I run for President if we wanted to? 

People are limited in how they can respond right now. Trump has funneled a lot of it down his alley. 

What do you mean by a lifelong politician?  

Do you mean that the only candidate you want for president is someone with zero experience in any form of government?   Because yes,  that person would likely have to be rich,  and would likely have given huge amounts of money to political campaigns on both sides of the aisle.  

I can think of a couple people who have done that with varying degrees of success.  

Ronald Reagan would be a great example.  Unfortunately,  he doesn't count.  Yes,  he was an actor before he was president,  but he was a governor for eight years and had already tried and failed to run.

Schwarzenegger and Jesse the mind ventura also had noteworthy private citizen to public service runs.   I'll leave it to you to decide if they were successful. 

Ross perot was the closest we've come to having a private citizen go directly into the office of the president.   He was demolished in the general election but he had a good run. 

The tea party candidates over the lady several years were, by and large,  private citizens with no government experience.   How do you feel about their presence in the house? 

The reality is that the presidency is not a job you can just pick up as you go along.  You need to have a lot of real,  relevant experience just to attend the training program.  You wouldn't hire an outsider to manage the entire produce department at whole foods just because they'd owned a farm, would you? 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Bernie certainly is making a case that the funding can happen without big/corporate money backing. The lifelong politician thing I'm not sure about though.

Sanders is wealthy...no?

-I'm honestly pulling this up now. Holy ####, he's as poor as can be, especially for a politician. His net worth isn't much more than many of us. He carries around $50,000 in credit card debt at around 10% interest...this all facts on the internet. I'm shocked. 

-On one hand it immediately makes me want to donate to him and hope he gets the nomination. On the other hand I know he is way behind and almost impossible for him to beat Clinton and I don't see him being her V.P. as they don't have much in common imho.

-While his net worth makes him a man of the people, that credit card debt is horrible. He doesn't look like he would know a lot about economics in a positive way. I love some of his ideas and I would love to cripple the banks but gov't has shown they will always bail them out. 

 

[snogger]

You said Kasich sucked and wondered how he ever won any election. That's where the data from Ohio came into play as an appropriate response. Remember?

Also, I wouldn't be so sure that any candidate beats Donald. He has a created a hype machine that is picking up steam at a pace that none of us expected, regardless of political affiliation. I've gone from being very upset about it to being resigned to curious fascination. We'll see what happens.

He's pulling in like 35% of the vote.  He's hardly some juggernaut.

It is something almost everyone( media, Trumpkins, etc..) keep missing.. that Most wins have him at around 35% and the other 65% spread out.. or they assume that if he wins then the other 65% will automatically align themselves behind him..

I personally don't see it.. He may pull in about 30 to 40% of the rest, and the others either will vote 3rd party, Hilary.. or worse yet, for the GOP, not show up to vote at all, therefore guaranteeing the Democrats take back the house.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What do you mean by a lifelong politician?  20-30 years

Do you mean that the only candidate you want for president is someone with zero experience in any form of government?   Because yes,  that person would likely have to be rich,  and would likely have given huge amounts of money to political campaigns on both sides of the aisle.  

George Washington had no political experience and was one of the greatest Presidents of all time. Eisenhower also like Washington, former General. 

I can think of a couple people who have done that with varying degrees of success.  

Ronald Reagan would be a great example.  Unfortunately,  he doesn't count.  Yes,  he was an actor before he was president,  but he was a governor for eight years and had already tried and failed to run. His celebrity status is a good analogy for the current Trump bonanza. Some people see another Reagan that was more figurative and a leader.  Plus he showed he can do QVC commercials last night...Trump water, Trump steak, Trump wine.

Schwarzenegger and Jesse the mind ventura also had noteworthy private citizen to public service runs.   I'll leave it to you to decide if they were successful. Arnold was great in California, he got them to stay within budget. Love Gov Moonbeam but California has a lot of problems financially right now. Ventura seemed like he faded in Minnesota after a strong start.

Ross perot was the closest we've come to having a private citizen go directly into the office of the president.   He was demolished in the general election but he had a good run. He sabotaged himself by leaving the race and then returning. Clinton took office with about 40% of the vote so I don't think demolish is the right word to describe it. 

The tea party candidates over the lady several years were, by and large,  private citizens with no government experience.   How do you feel about their presence in the house? 

The reality is that the presidency is not a job you can just pick up as you go along.  You need to have a lot of real,  relevant experience just to attend the training program.  You wouldn't hire an outsider to manage the entire produce department at whole foods just because they'd owned a farm, would you? 

Thanks BF, nice post. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I would love to cripple the banks

This is an odd sentiment.

 

[Gr00vus]

Arnold was great in California, he got them to stay within budget. Love Gov Moonbeam but California has a lot of problems financially right now.

You have this pretty much completely backwards. Arnold was a disaster, Brown got the state into a budget surplus with in a year of  getting back into office. I'm not saying CA still doesn't have some pressing financial problems (our state pension commitments are serious bad news), but your read on this is totally wrong.

 

[SameSongNDance]

It's unbelievably ironic that the party who touts the benefits of a free market is losing in the marketplace of ideas and is now trying to intervene and decide who their party's nominee will be. The party is ####ed because it's completely devoid of integrity. 

 

[Mr.Pack]

Trump is  monopolizing Fox & CNN . Totally taking the air out of the ball for the others. Masterful , it really is. Masterful performance by Donald tonight. Believe me

Is there a link to this speech? I missed it

 

[Gr00vus]

Is there a link to this speech? I missed it

You can catch the highlights here.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You have this pretty much completely backwards. Arnold was a disaster, Brown got the state into a budget surplus with in a year of  getting back into office. I'm not saying CA still doesn't have some pressing financial problems (our state pension commitments are serious bad news), but your read on this is totally wrong.

Not as I re-call things when he took over. You can post I'm wrong but I know what I read when he was in office. I know what I read now with Brown in office. It's cool, we're free to have our opinions. 

Lot of "You're wrong" on this board. Not so much you Groov just a never ending want to be right around here. I never heard Arnold-disaster, I know Brown has been popular but mostly by the working poor and lower middle class. I'm not sure the last 4-8 years in California would work very well nationwide but you're free to believe so. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Is there a link to this speech? I missed it

Youtube, 40+ minutes plus QVC

 

[Don Quixote]

George Washington had no political experience and was one of the greatest Presidents of all time.

You may want to fact check that.  He was in the Virginia House of Burgesses for 15 years.  And that does not even count his time in the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

You may want to fact check that.  He was in the Virginia House of Burgesses for 15 years.  And that does not even count his time in the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention.

Oof, really.  Someone said that about George Washington?

God am I done with this election.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You may want to fact check that.  He was in the Virginia House of Burgesses for 15 years.  And that does not even count his time in the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention.

He wasn't a career politician and really wanted no part of being President

Also his time in Virginia, he didn't say much and he didn't introduce any legislation, one of the many reasons he shunned from being President. He was a good leader of men, a tenacious fighter, but as far as politics he was not blazing a trail prior to taking office. 

 

[CBusAlex]

IMO, it's becoming increasingly clear that #NeverTrump was also #NeverTed

Yeah, I don't think the GOP would be any happier with Cruz as the nominee than Trump. Their best bet is to force a brokered convention and hope that they can win over enough of Cruz's delegates to a compromise candidate like Paul Ryan or whoever (maybe with a VP spot for Cruz as part of the deal).

So the question is, who gets more delegates from here on out? Rubio + Kasich or just Kasich alone?

 

[Loan Sharks]

I posted an article yesterday.. basically it all comes down to Ohio and Florida..If Trump wins both of those then it is all over no matter what Rubio or Kasich do..

The numbers just don't work to stop a Trump

It was over a long time ago. 

 

[Gr00vus]

Not as I re-call things when he took over. You can post I'm wrong but I know what I read when he was in office. I know what I read now with Brown in office. It's cool, we're free to have our opinions. 

Lot of "You're wrong" on this board. Not so much you Groov just a never ending want to be right around here. I never heard Arnold-disaster, I know Brown has been popular but mostly by the working poor and lower middle class. I'm not sure the last 4-8 years in California would work very well nationwide but you're free to believe so. 

Sorry, man, but you're just spouting nonsense about this topic. I don't think you're recalling anything, you're just making stuff up. You really need to stop making assertions about things you don't know about.

Here's an article written in 2013 to give you some facts.

Arnold Schwarzenegger ...The newly elected Governator ... ended up growing the deficit to as large as $42 billion in 2009....A mere four years later, California has a new problem: What to do with the projected $850 million surplus it will have by the end of the year.

By the time Arnold was done, the CA deficit was $60 billion. Brown took office in 2011. Since 2012, California has had a budget surplus every fiscal year after having deficits since 2000, including deficits every year of Arnold's tenure. Another budget surplus is projected for 2017, possibly as much as $10 billion. These aren't opinions, they're facts/projections. My opinion is that billion dollar surpluses probably would work nationwide.

 

[Loan Sharks]

Still taking in that the republicans are picking the guy who just spent 20 minutes talking about his steaks and water businesses - all named after himself - complete with on stage props. And, all the networks covered it for at least 45 minutes. 

Cruz, Rubio, Kasich you guys must suck really, really bad. How did you get elected anywhere to begin with?

And HIllary, they didn't cut away from Trump to hear her speak. 

 

[Joe Summer]

Sure. He wanted no part of being President. That's why he only served one term.

Washington spent almost his entire adult life as a government servant. Trump has never served in the government in any official capacity. In fact he would be the ONLY president who had zero governmental experience prior to taking office.

He wasn't a career politician and really wanted no part of being President

 

[Don Quixote]

He wasn't a career politician and really wanted no part of being President

Also his time in Virginia, he didn't say much and he didn't introduce any legislation, one of the many reasons he shunned from being President. He was a good leader of men, a tenacious fighter, but as far as politics he was not blazing a trail prior to taking office. 

Is this your way of saying that you were wrong that he "had no political experience"?  Regardless, he was heavily involved in the non-importation agreements while in Virginia.

 

[Righetti]

Marco, we have a special project we'd like you to take ownership of.   It involves a lot of filing 

 

[timschochet]

So if Kasich wins Ohio is there still time for him to become THE alternative to Trump rather than Cruz? There's a lot of states left that would be much more favorable to Kasich than they ever would to Cruz (including mine). 

 

[Loan Sharks]

So if Kasich wins Ohio is there still time for him to become THE alternative to Trump rather than Cruz? There's a lot of states left that would be much more favorable to Kasich than they ever would to Cruz (including mine). 

You sound like a FF coach hoping for 5 tds over 50 yards from the number three WR on the Lions in a Monday night game to win. You just sound needy. 

 

[snogger]

So if Kasich wins Ohio is there still time for him to become THE alternative to Trump rather than Cruz? There's a lot of states left that would be much more favorable to Kasich than they ever would to Cruz (including mine). 

 No.. he wins Ohio and the chance of a brokered convention goes from 2% to 30%.. and only then does he have chance.. well, short of Don dropping out that is

 

[Phase of the Game]

So if Kasich wins Ohio is there still time for him to become THE alternative to Trump rather than Cruz? There's a lot of states left that would be much more favorable to Kasich than they ever would to Cruz (including mine). 

You have been wrong and wrong and wrong yet you still act like you know someone something about this election.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I'm the only person watching Kasich just crush this town hall aren't I?  Ugh.

 

[Righetti]

I'm the only person watching Kasich just crush this town hall aren't I?  Ugh.

That is the problem with Kasich.  Nobody ever pays attention to him.  His kids forget his birthday, his wife goes to dinner with another dude and still he comes home every night and brings home dinner

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Sorry, man, but you're just spouting nonsense about this topic. I don't think you're recalling anything, you're just making stuff up. You really need to stop making assertions about things you don't know about.

Here's an article written in 2013 to give you some facts.

By the time Arnold was done, the CA deficit was $60 billion. Brown took office in 2011. Since 2012, California has had a budget surplus every fiscal year after having deficits since 2000, including deficits every year of Arnold's tenure. Another budget surplus is projected for 2017, possibly as much as $10 billion. These aren't opinions, they're facts/projections. My opinion is that billion dollar surpluses probably would work nationwide.

They made a movie entitled Enron:The Smartest Guys in the Room which shows what a real disaster is/was as a California Governor.

There is a reason I Re-Call how awesome Schwarzzy was when he took office. You couldn't buy a car in California because of the lic tag BS b4 he stepped in.

Go find more Liberal spin to paint it however you want, Arnold was a hit and he saved California from falling into the ocean. To each their own San Diego.

 

[Gr00vus]

They made a movie entitled Enron:The Smartest Guys in the Room which shows what a real disaster is/was as a California Governor.

There is a reason I Re-Call how awesome Schwarzzy was when he took office. You couldn't buy a car in California because of the lic tag BS b4 he stepped in.

Go find more Liberal spin to paint it however you want, Arnold was a hit and he saved California from falling into the ocean. To each their own San Diego.

You seem to be having another incoherency episode. My takeaway is I'll avoid taking you seriously for a while until you prove some sort of return to lucidity.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Not as I re-call things when he took over. You can post I'm wrong but I know what I read when he was in office. I know what I read now with Brown in office. It's cool, we're free to have our opinions. 

Except that this isn't a matter of opinion.  Either what you say happened, or it didn't.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

So if Kasich wins Ohio is there still time for him to become THE alternative to Trump rather than Cruz? There's a lot of states left that would be much more favorable to Kasich than they ever would to Cruz (including mine). 

No.

He won't win Ohio. He didn't even come in 2nd in Michigan. He's not going to suddenly manufacture supporters and Trump voters aren't going to switch to him. In their infinite wisdom a week before the primaries in the home states of Kasich and Rubio the GOP elites have decided to back . . . Cruz. Support he probably doesn't want and support the voters probably don't care about. 

But you said "if" so I'll play along. IF Kasich wins Ohio, then no. His only hope is that Cruz levels off, Trump falls short, and we go to Cleveland for a contested convention.