fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
At least Gabbert is cheap. I'd take Gabbert at $2M a year over Bradford at almost $20M any day of the week.
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*Official 2016 Philadelphia Eagles* - The year of Change (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Deamon
- Start date
JetMaxx
Footballguy
You win, in part. Sam, Condon, CAA, agent,player, NFL commish insider GordonGekko. Hey GG, care to tell us more why agents won't deal with the Eagles when Bradford came cowering back after no one wanted him?Deamon said:
Condon, CAA, Bradford came crawling back to the place/Eagles that gave Bradford 22 mil guaranteed and the subsequent agent 10% cut. What a comical display by an agent. Has there ever been a more poorly played hold out?
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Well playedJetMaxx said:
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Do you actually think Bradford spending the year in Philly is going to end well for anyone?
The lockerroom is now going to be divided. Does anything think this is the ideal developmental situation for Carson Wentz?
That there are rabid Eagles homers, so invested in protecting anything the Philly front office does, that they will blame everyone else for this entire dysfunctional situation. Winning organizations don't behave like this. They don't have these kind of controversies. They don't self inflict this kind of discord and drama into their locker rooms.
Condon and CAA are going to play the long game here. In the end, for Eagles fans, this all only hurts the Eagles franchise. If the Eagles ever draft a CAA client again, and they represent a disproportionate amount of NFL draftees, including first rounders, in general, do the Eagles want the knock down drag it out grind it down slogfest that Condon will turn every future contract negotiation into being? Every Tier 2 and Tier 3 free agent repped by CAA will be encouraged to sign elsewhere, lest they get a record breaking contract. Every high level college coach on CAA's roster is now dead to the Eagles. Every position coach in the league they rep is dead to the Eagles. Every source, every access point, all of the reach and resources of said powerful agency are now dead to the Eagles.
Functional NFL franchises don't go out of their way to make enemies of large agencies for a reason. Even Bill Belichick wouldn't do this.
Howie Roseman has only shown in the NFL that he has skill at being in the middle of a lot of discord and bad blood with other people in the league. CAA and Condon and Bradford are not the first.
Given how much the Eagles have invested in Wentz, with an angry and bitter Bradford dividing the locker room, DOES ANYONE THINK THIS IS GOING TO END WELL FOR THE KID'S FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AT ALL?
Insein
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
As mentioned, I'd like him to injure himself doing something that voids his contract. We can both call that a win.
Deamon
Footballguy
Eagles fans cheering for their own starting QB to become injured and/or suck because he held out of practice for a week is why we get a bad reputation.
Insein
Footballguy
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Do you think Elway now having butt fumble and a 3 year until he's a functional NFL QB leading his team after butchering the Manning/Osweiler transition isn't bringing discord and dysfunction to a Super Bowl winning team?
Belichick has a well deserved reputation of trading aging, highly paid, seasoned vets, locker room leader types(Seymour,Mankins) to piss poor teams(Raiders/Bucs). How do you think that goes over with the locker room, the traded player, or the agents? Guess what? They still win.
I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of winning teams doing what they must with little regard for the interests of the player.
Frankly, unless this is some sort of team fan trolling schtick you employ, I'm shocked that you and by extension "supposedly" Condon/CAA are surprised by what the Eagles did. One of the primary lessons I've learned in dealing with NFL players, coaches, respected members of the press and people tied closely enough to the inner workings "to know", is that nearly every situation on a team is highly fluid. It is a core NFL principle for many reasons. One of the very few things that brings a player a measure of stability is guaranteed money because of the nature of the cap. When Condon/CAA poorly failed when given the opportunity to secure Bradford's long term stability, it made it easy for the Eagles to benefit from the fluidity of this offseason. I have a seriously difficult time believing that a previously highly respected agent like Condon wouldn't realize this and worse yet, cost his current and potential future clients money by refusing to negotiate with the Eagles. Just doesn't make sense.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I may be mistaken, but I believe the GG alias is specifically a trolling account controlled by several others on here. Usually best just to ignore it.
massraider
Footballguy
Every year there are half-baked holdouts. Every year there is tough talk from a player's rep that Player X won't do this or that. Player X skips voluntary workouts, and fans with the memory of goldfish on meth get all worked up.
This was a bigger than average story because of the circumstances, not because the Eagles screwed anyone over.
This story being huge was a perfect mix of no other major news happening, the rabid Philly fan base, a QB being involved, and the QB in question having been stealing money sine he entered the league. I mean, if you are looking for a villain for blue collar Philly, give them a an overpaid QB that is unhappy a month after signing a deal he hasn't earned.
However, this story being bigger than your average Unhappy April Player doesn't mean it's going to have much more impact than any other player that declared he would never report in April, and yet somehow was in camp by July. Codon and Sam made their little bluff, and the Eagles called it. If Sam plays well this fall, Eagles fans will be fine with him. Same way any other fans would cheer a QB they don't like, who then starts playing well.
And if you think Condon is suddenly going to steer all his clients elsewhere, you're not being realistic. All the Eagles have to do is leak that Condon is turning down more money from Philly because of a Sam Bradford vendetta, and that will be the end of that. Those 2nd and 3rd tier free agents? They need to get every last dollar, and if they are pawns in a game like that, Condon will lose. And every other agent in the game will be more than happy to join the 'league source' dogpile.
massraider
Footballguy
I love it.
It's like a weird little InfoWars, with all sorts of vague references to 'access points', 'what I'm hearing around the league', 'league politics' and 'playing the long game'.
Mostly complete nonsense, with great proclamations that can never be proven.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I'm not expecting a Super Bowl - in fact, I'm rooting for countless 2-14 seasons in a row until it brings widespread change to the front office and ownership of the team. Anything between 4 wins and 9 wins is a complete waste of a year right now for them.
I expect Chip Kelly and Trent Baalke to hate each other within a few months.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Also, FTR while I'm in here, I like Wentz more than Goff... Think they might have gotten a franchise QB here. GL with him, I'm rooting for the kid.
One of Pederson's "pets" in KC was cut a week ago. Fred Williams was signed in January so as to not become a free agent yet after the draft the Chiefs didn't have the room.
The one man WR corps of the Chiefs drove me nuts lately. Last year their 5th and 6th WR were studs in preseason- ...everything you'd want. Then yet again, Reid rolls with a slew of guys that never produce and leaves these two that do produce sitting on the sideline.
Anywho, yeah definitely a Pederson guy, I'd be more surprised if the Eagles didn't sign him.
The one man WR corps of the Chiefs drove me nuts lately. Last year their 5th and 6th WR were studs in preseason- ...everything you'd want. Then yet again, Reid rolls with a slew of guys that never produce and leaves these two that do produce sitting on the sideline.
Anywho, yeah definitely a Pederson guy, I'd be more surprised if the Eagles didn't sign him.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I don't know about that...as long as Chip can stay away from wanting more power I think the SF fans will like him.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
GG (whomever that might be) never backs up any of his/her grandiose theories.....FACT.
Insein
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
I really don't understand the sentiment that having Sam here is a sign that the Eagles didn't have a plan or that Howie has no idea what he's doing. That's a pretty dumb POV.
Howie came into the off season knowing he needed to figure out the QB situation. Sam was here but he didn't want a long term commitment. He would have liked to move up for a QB but at 13 that was going to be tough to pull off. So if he blew off Sam, signed just Chase Daniel and drafted a 3rd round QB, he'd be getting skewered right now as having no plan.
He managed basically a 1 year deal with Sam as insurance. Cost him a lot like insurance often does. Then he went to work on the draft knowing he had Sam as a safety net if the big plan falls through. I'd say that's brilliant management.
Howie came into the off season knowing he needed to figure out the QB situation. Sam was here but he didn't want a long term commitment. He would have liked to move up for a QB but at 13 that was going to be tough to pull off. So if he blew off Sam, signed just Chase Daniel and drafted a 3rd round QB, he'd be getting skewered right now as having no plan.
He managed basically a 1 year deal with Sam as insurance. Cost him a lot like insurance often does. Then he went to work on the draft knowing he had Sam as a safety net if the big plan falls through. I'd say that's brilliant management.
Ash
Footballguy
Welcome to the "Ignore" lounge. Please enjoy the company of MC Gas Money, Officer Pete Molloy etc. Whoever was driving you 5 years ago was so much better at it.
Ash
Footballguy
Agree, if they hadn't been able to make those two trades up, Sam could play this year and next offseason they could look for a QB in the draft again, another veteran option or extend Bradford if he deserved it.
Just because Plan A worked first try (at least to get Wentz here) doesn't mean Plan B was a dumb idea.
Lol. The funny part is, most trolls just make a snide comment here and there. This clown wastes huge chunks of his time writing these novels that no one even bothers reading anymore. He must have a really pathetic life to need to waste so much time accomplishing nothing.JetMaxx said:Oof. This may be most poorly played trolling schtick ever.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Insein said:
If Roseman was straight up with Bradford, that he was a stop gap and just insurance, that would be one thing. But that's not the case. Bradford and Condon would have moved on to other QB1 needy teams otherwise. But Roseman lied to both of them.
What is the simpler answer here?
Roseman lied and continues his sordid history of infighting and interpersonal conflict with folks around the league
or
Somehow one of the most powerful agents, from one of the most powerful sports agencies in the world, suddenly turns dunce and a veteran player with no other previous history of locker room discord or scandal suddenly goes Jennifer Lopez on everyone?
And still yet, none of the most rabid homers here can answer this basic question -
HOW IS THIS GOING TO A HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE ENVIRONMENT TO GROOM CARSON WENTZ?
Insein
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
1. Follow the money. Does Condon not understand what Sam's contract meant? Because every guy cruising this board knew what it meant. Condon and Bradford took this deal because it was the deal that was there. Other QB1-needy teams didn't get on the phone and offer a 4 year deal, or Condon the Super Genius would have taken that deal. Why would Condon take a dressed up 1 year deal, with a team option over any other decent deal? Don't bother answering. He wouldn't. There was NO OTHER DEAL. There was no long term deal forthcoming from anyone else.
2. Groom Carson Wentz? They have coaches for that. Who cares if Sam is unhappy? Sam is playing for his next deal, so guess what? He's not going to pout, he's going to play as well as possible, to make sure he doesn't turn into the next Ryan Fitzpatrick.
You are dramatically overstating this toxic environment, in my humble opinion. Sam has already made his public statement talking about how he can't wait tog et to work, and loves his teammates, etc. Is it sincere? No, of course not. But it sure doesn't seem like he is going to be any kind of problem, and isn't going to stand in the way of a HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE ENVIRONMENT.
Let me ask you this: What's your evidence that the locker room is going to be divided, or that Sam isn't going to play nice?
renesauz
IBL Representative
Kind of surprised at the venom being tossed at GG here. Less surprised by how negatively Bradford has beenprotrayed and attacked , but surprised none-the-less. While I like most of Roseman's moves, I tend to think that he screwed this one up, but is a master at manipulating the media to make himself and "the team" look good.
I don't blame him one bit for moving up and grabbing Wentz (even if I don't agree with the price-tag) but I fully believe that Bradford was promised a chance to earn a long term deal. It was handled poorly. Bradford has always been described as a good guy and great team-mate...that didn't change over-night, and it's discouraging that so many smart folks seem to think that it did.
I don't think it necessarily means a toxic environment for Wentz though.
I don't blame him one bit for moving up and grabbing Wentz (even if I don't agree with the price-tag) but I fully believe that Bradford was promised a chance to earn a long term deal. It was handled poorly. Bradford has always been described as a good guy and great team-mate...that didn't change over-night, and it's discouraging that so many smart folks seem to think that it did.
I don't think it necessarily means a toxic environment for Wentz though.
Insein
Footballguy
I think you're as naive as Bradford if you think Howie specifically said "Come back you can win the starting job and I am in no way looking for a better option. By the way here's our 1 year deal were offering you."
Deamon
Footballguy
Again you're looking at that narrow minded and not addressing GG's other issues. I don't agree with most of what GG said and I don't think Howie is as bad of a guy as he portrays him to be.... but taking the bias and 'burn the witch' mob mentality out of it and trying to look at both sides, you have to wonder what really ticked Sam/Condon off so much. I think it's naive to just throw out 'oh he's whiny, he's entitled, he's selfish'. Easier to do that then question your own leader I guess, but I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Of course, fans on forums prefer to have a strong opinion one way or another rather then admitting both sides might be a bit at fault/not at all at fault and not having anything to argue about.
modogg
Footballguy
i think you really got to be careful with things like the bolded above. I think we have no idea how Sam was seen in the locker room. Only d-bag players would throw a current teammate under the bus by saying he wasn't a good guy, etc. he might be, might not be, who knows. There are some things that can point to possible hints (if you believe the news reports), like how throughout draft week and the week after only 1 Eagles player reached out to Sam. They could still think he is a good guy, but that would seem to mean they aren't exactly dependent on him.
but honestly, who knows. unless you are a T.O. personality, do we really know how much the whole social aspect of a team works in the NFL. I think many guys see it as a paycheck, and just want to make sure they are good on their end
Insein
Footballguy
I was pretty clear I didn't read what GG wrote. Not worth the time.
But for Sam, when every ex player, analyst, pundit as well as the Joe Schmoes are all saying, "WTF are you doing dude", there really isn't much of a middle ground to imagine.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
That's because any argument Sam had was demolished when his agent interviewed. There were no promises, at all. Not verbally (or else this would have been addressed by his agent) or otherwise given the contract he signed. There has not even been ANY evidence to even suggest otherwise other than what some have made up here.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I can see this, but I tend to think it was more that Condon and Bradford did not like the new landscape and thought they had more leverage than they really did to make a trade happen. They may have felt that Howie earnestly offered the opportunity to compete for a long-term deal, but no way could they have thought it was a guarantee. Maybe they initially thought it was like 70-30 in Bradford's favor, then after the trade to 2, they saw it as more like 20-80, so they thought the best thing to do was to engineer a trade based on the new landscape and the possibility that a team or 2 would re-consider a higher price tag after all the dust had settled in FA.
Deamon
Footballguy
Good for them. I'm talking about the rabid-dog fanbase that seem to feel PERSONALLY insulted that some guy didn't show up for a week. Cox hasn't gone to voluntary workouts either. Obviously not comparing the two in terms of value, but even you have to admit that issues like this happen all the time and get so incredibly over dramatized, especially by our fanbase which tends to just love to hate something. You can, and have, made valid arguments why maybe he messed up or him or his agent didn't take the right approach. But to hold a grudge against your starting quarterback and cheer for him to fail/get injured/lose games/etc seems a little over the top, even for Eagles fans, no? I love our fans' passion but not every situation needs an enemy to burn at the stake, and there's likely more middle ground then your need to justify your hatred of him will allow you to believe. There's more to the story then we'll ever know. Just hope when/IF he wins a game that you'll actually be happy about it.
Deamon
Footballguy
You could be very right. Although, if anyone thinks a QB has a 20% chance to be the starter long term on a team that just moved up to #2 to get their franchise guy, they're out of their minds. You're right though, they probably thought it was 70-30, and it dropped to 5-95 after the move. So they made a decision trying to go to a better situation.... might have backfired, might have been dumb, but isn't the massive slap in the face, treason, let's hate our qb, front page story that everyone loves to make it.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Hardly what I said. He was promised a CHANCE to win it.
I think perhaps there are a lot of other naive folks in here if they think he has any kind of chance to win the long term job in Philadelphia after all of the assets spent to acquire Wentz. Bradford went from having a legit opportunity to fight for and secure a long term job to being a placeholder only. If he had known he was just a placeholder, I doubt he signs that 2 year deal and he's likely a Jet or a Bronco right now.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
I've tried to stay out of this for the most part, but it seems to me that the "problem" with this whole situation is really just the timing of the NFL calendar, namely that FA starts six weeks before the draft.
I don't know what Howie may or may not have "promised" to Bradford/Condon, but i don't blame Howie one bit for shoring up QB with at least a passable option before FA started. Six teams were reportedly after Daniel so at the time the legal tampering period opened, there was no guarantee that deal was getting done. And Cleveland could have always pulled a Tennessee and just decided that they also liked Wentz a lot and were just going to keep the 2 no matter what offer came. This year, Howie's Plan A, Plan B and Plan C all happened to hit.
By contrast, the Jets waited out the market to sign Fitzpatrick and (to this point) that strategy has blown up in their faces. Now it's the Geno/Hackenberg show. Imagine if we had come out of the draft with a depth chart of Sanchez and Hackenberg (or even Paxton Lynch) as our 1-2 (which BTW was extremely possible)? Everyone would be going nuts here.
But alas, "timing and circumstances" doesn't generate numerous hot takes, clicks or TV ratings so it can't possibly be right.
I don't know what Howie may or may not have "promised" to Bradford/Condon, but i don't blame Howie one bit for shoring up QB with at least a passable option before FA started. Six teams were reportedly after Daniel so at the time the legal tampering period opened, there was no guarantee that deal was getting done. And Cleveland could have always pulled a Tennessee and just decided that they also liked Wentz a lot and were just going to keep the 2 no matter what offer came. This year, Howie's Plan A, Plan B and Plan C all happened to hit.
By contrast, the Jets waited out the market to sign Fitzpatrick and (to this point) that strategy has blown up in their faces. Now it's the Geno/Hackenberg show. Imagine if we had come out of the draft with a depth chart of Sanchez and Hackenberg (or even Paxton Lynch) as our 1-2 (which BTW was extremely possible)? Everyone would be going nuts here.
But alas, "timing and circumstances" doesn't generate numerous hot takes, clicks or TV ratings so it can't possibly be right.
Insein
Footballguy
A lot of people are having arguments with themselves. So let's clear this up.
1) The majority of the fanbase does not hate Sam. They do not hold a grudge against Sam. They just don't care either way about Sam because we have a franchise QB in waiting. So Sam is irrelevant. There's always going to be the dirty 30 type idiots that make a lot of noise about team or death but they don't represent even a fraction of the fan base.
2) When the games are played, Sam will get booed. That was inevitable once he did this mini holdout.
3) Some seem to think Howie is a liar for signing Sam and then trading up for Wentz. These 2 events are not mutually exclusive. Howie wanted to sign Sam short term because he had no QBs on the roster (having traded Sanchez). They currently were at #13 in the draft which was not taking place for another 7 weeks at that point. To not sign Bradford and have only a recently signed Chase Daniel on the roster when sitting at 13 and even 8 would have been idiotic. Putting all his eggs in the we're going to draft a QB basket is not just bad for the obvious immediate football reasons but from a negotiating stand point as well. How many more picks would we have had to give up to get to 2 if Cleveland knew we were ####ed if we didn't draft a high QB? People want to see this cold blooded dealer in Rosemen that did Bradford dirty but he is looking out for the franchise best interest, not Sam Bradford's.
4) Sam isn't the bad guy but he sure misread this to the point that he almost made himself the bad guy. Had he held out to when his agent said he was going to (6/7), there would have been a larger contingent of the fans very upset. As it stands, he realized he made a mistake. He's ended it. It'll go away in a week. Definitely booing first time at camp and preseason, first home game series. Otherwise no one really cares. Sixers draft pick del ction is next Tuesday, Phils keep winning and soon Sam will be forgotten by everyone except the talk radio guys who's job it is to stir #### up.
1) The majority of the fanbase does not hate Sam. They do not hold a grudge against Sam. They just don't care either way about Sam because we have a franchise QB in waiting. So Sam is irrelevant. There's always going to be the dirty 30 type idiots that make a lot of noise about team or death but they don't represent even a fraction of the fan base.
2) When the games are played, Sam will get booed. That was inevitable once he did this mini holdout.
3) Some seem to think Howie is a liar for signing Sam and then trading up for Wentz. These 2 events are not mutually exclusive. Howie wanted to sign Sam short term because he had no QBs on the roster (having traded Sanchez). They currently were at #13 in the draft which was not taking place for another 7 weeks at that point. To not sign Bradford and have only a recently signed Chase Daniel on the roster when sitting at 13 and even 8 would have been idiotic. Putting all his eggs in the we're going to draft a QB basket is not just bad for the obvious immediate football reasons but from a negotiating stand point as well. How many more picks would we have had to give up to get to 2 if Cleveland knew we were ####ed if we didn't draft a high QB? People want to see this cold blooded dealer in Rosemen that did Bradford dirty but he is looking out for the franchise best interest, not Sam Bradford's.
4) Sam isn't the bad guy but he sure misread this to the point that he almost made himself the bad guy. Had he held out to when his agent said he was going to (6/7), there would have been a larger contingent of the fans very upset. As it stands, he realized he made a mistake. He's ended it. It'll go away in a week. Definitely booing first time at camp and preseason, first home game series. Otherwise no one really cares. Sixers draft pick del ction is next Tuesday, Phils keep winning and soon Sam will be forgotten by everyone except the talk radio guys who's job it is to stir #### up.
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Again you're making it sound like people in here are against what Howie did. He may have "lied" by saying they weren't going to take a qb, because at the time, he thought there was no way he'd get one. Once circumstances allowed them to go after Wentz, I don't think anyone here is upset that Howie did that. No argument there.
I also think you're underestimating the bitterness of our fanbase, especially many in here. To say that no one hates him and everyone will be back cheering for him in no time seems a little ambitious. The "pro-bradford" camp doesn't hate Howie as much as you say, and the "anti-bradford" camp isn't as forgiving and able to get over a 1 week hold out as much as you think.
I guess time will tell and hopefully you're right that his teammates and fans will get over it and cheer for their guy this season. Which is all I want to happen.
Insein
Footballguy
I think you and people like you are reading too much into it. I'm saying Bradford, according to his agent's comments anyway, didn't even ask about if the Eagles were drafting a QB.
But in this hypothetical scenario, let's say they did ask. Why would Howie tell them the truth even if he knew lock solid he wanted to get to #2 at that point? Condon has other clients and talks to other teams. Howie's not going to let a big secret like that go casually to an agent.
So I don't think people are being realistic in what they're complaining about. Howie never would have told Sam or his agent if they were attempting to trade for a QB even if Sam asked him point blank.
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Deamon
Footballguy
I don't know if it was point blank or just a general feeling and tire pumping that "we want you here Sam, you're our guy. We'd like you to be our franchise guy". And then boom, find another franchise guy. Again, I haven't argued that what he did was really bad for the team though and I'm happy with the move to get wentz.
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