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***Official 2016 Presidential Race Thread*** Debate #3 TONIGHT! (1 Viewer)

Even though Gore challenged the results of 2000 all the way to the Supreme Court, in the end he did concede. In fact, as VP he was in charge of Congress when the electors voted for Bush.

The last time the results of a national election were not conceded was 1860, by the State of South Carolina. Yeah, that was a fine moment in our history...

 
Sand said:
Ignoring the fact that we should have been here at least 3 years ago I'd agree.  Current economic policies have ######ed employment growth during this recovery and made this easily the weakest recovery in our modern history.  
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what did you expect.  Barack brought in his 1st team economic people when elected.   They are ALL teaching economics in their respective colleges right now.  Theory is one thing, actuality is another. 

 
timschochet said:
Even though Gore challenged the results of 2000 all the way to the Supreme Court, in the end he did concede. In fact, as VP he was in charge of Congress when the electors voted for Bush.

The last time the results of a national election were not conceded was 1860, by the State of South Carolina. Yeah, that was a fine moment in our history...
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He was forced to concede, he had no other choice.

 
Sand said:
Ignoring the fact that we should have been here at least 3 years ago I'd agree.  Current economic policies have ######ed employment growth during this recovery and made this easily the weakest recovery in our modern history.  
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The stimulus was way too small. Brought to you by the same people Hillary will be hiring.

 
I hope we all can see the difference in challenging an election decided by a few thousand votes compared to one not being accepted when decided by a few millions votes?

 
Sand said:
FishTacoTuesday said:
U6 unemployment at its lowest rate since May of 2008.  In the late 90s/early 2000s when the economy was rolling along, U6 was between 6.8 and 8%.  It's 9.7% now, which is well within the safe zone for an open market.  The jobs and sectors have changed, that's maybe what Irishidiot is referencing.  But the unemployment rate at this point in time is completely fine.  You start getting into the teens or into the 20s like Greece or Spain, then it's a real problem. 
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Ignoring the fact that we should have been here at least 3 years ago I'd agree.  Current economic policies have ######ed employment growth during this recovery and made this easily the weakest recovery in our modern history.  
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I liked your previous post, you summed things up well there.  Talking about unemployment rates and the general health of the economy in a historical sense are different things.  People can find work in 2016, but underemployment, wage stagnation, and getting behind the 8 ball on inflation are all important variables.  Our market has changed and it no longer allows a lot of low skilled workers to be middle class workers like it did 40 years ago, it's just the evolution of an advanced society IMO.  You ship work out to cheaper places to gain economies of scale, and you invest more money in those places to boast your bottom line. 

So it's not that U.S. corporations or the market movers are struggling, they aren't as they are racking in record profits.  It's just that now more of the work is being done elsewhere, and less money is being invested in domestic systems and people.  That said we aren't even close to being the most expensive place to produce things, Japan and Europe make things in the U.S. because it's cheaper to do it here. 

IMO the economy is just going through a transition to a different standard, but that doesn't mean it is negative long-term.  AS long as we continue to innovate better than anyone else, as long as we continue to install proper business systems that shine in our market, and as long as we still offer one of the better places to live as an individual we'll be fine.  I think we have built-in advantages that no other first world country has, and I don't see that changing in my lifetime.  :2cents:

 
NCCommish said:
The stimulus was way too small. Brought to you by the same people Hillary will be hiring.
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Hillary is going to be much more middle of the road than Obama as far as policy.  If she doesn't take the example of her husband, then she'll definitely be gone in four years.  But if Congress slow rolls her like they did with Obama, then the government will be gridlocked like it has been for 8 years. 

 
FishTacoTuesday said:
Hillary is going to be much more middle of the road than Obama as far as policy.  If she doesn't take the example of her husband, then she'll definitely be gone in four years.  But if Congress slow rolls her like they did with Obama, then the government will be gridlocked like it has been for 8 years. 
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Actually she better move to the left or she will be gone. If she tries to triangulate and play third way games she better hope the GOP runs the love child of a three way between Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini raised by Mao. If you haven't noticed the American public is pissed. They are tired of policy not reflecting their wants. And I think those wants have been made pretty clear. They aren't in line with the donor class at all.

 
FishTacoTuesday said:
I liked your previous post, you summed things up well there.  Talking about unemployment rates and the general health of the economy in a historical sense are different things.  People can find work in 2016, but underemployment, wage stagnation, and getting behind the 8 ball on inflation are all important variables.  Our market has changed and it no longer allows a lot of low skilled workers to be middle class workers like it did 40 years ago, it's just the evolution of an advanced society IMO.  You ship work out to cheaper places to gain economies of scale, and you invest more money in those places to boast your bottom line. 

So it's not that U.S. corporations or the market movers are struggling, they aren't as they are racking in record profits.  It's just that now more of the work is being done elsewhere, and less money is being invested in domestic systems and people.  That said we aren't even close to being the most expensive place to produce things, Japan and Europe make things in the U.S. because it's cheaper to do it here. 

IMO the economy is just going through a transition to a different standard, but that doesn't mean it is negative long-term.  AS long as we continue to innovate better than anyone else, as long as we continue to install proper business systems that shine in our market, and as long as we still offer one of the better places to live as an individual we'll be fine.  I think we have built-in advantages that no other first world country has, and I don't see that changing in my lifetime.  :2cents:
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that's all good.   Get government out of private enterprise though.  I'm tired of them telling me how to do my business.  just tired of a declining  lack of freedom take that to the bank SWC & brohans a mingo coolabogo.

 
FishTacoTuesday said:
So it's not that U.S. corporations or the market movers are struggling, they aren't as they are racking in record profits.  It's just that now more of the work is being done elsewhere, and less money is being invested in domestic systems and people.  That said we aren't even close to being the most expensive place to produce things, Japan and Europe make things in the U.S. because it's cheaper to do it here. 
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First one is a bit wrong - US profits have stagnated and are actually declining a bit in the last year or two.  That's why the markets are pretty expensive right now.  Second one is very wrong - US manufacturing is, frankly, a juggernaut in size and scope.  We took a big hit in 2008, but are back to record output.  The jobs haven't come back due to efficiency gains.  But make no mistake about it - US manufacturing is a huge engine.  The output from that sector is greater than the GDP of Japan.  All of Japan.

Anyway, back to the debate.  Color me impressed with the moderator in this one.  Much more balanced questioning and much more substansive issues covered.  Miles above the other two.

 
NCCommish said:
FishTacoTuesday said:
Hillary is going to be much more middle of the road than Obama as far as policy.  If she doesn't take the example of her husband, then she'll definitely be gone in four years.  But if Congress slow rolls her like they did with Obama, then the government will be gridlocked like it has been for 8 years. 
Click to expand...
Actually she better move to the left or she will be gone. If she tries to triangulate and play third way games she better hope the GOP runs the love child of a three way between Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini raised by Mao. If you haven't noticed the American public is pissed. They are tired of policy not reflecting their wants. And I think those wants have been made pretty clear. They aren't in line with the donor class at all.
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She might have to because I think that generally the GOP politicians dislike her quite a bit.  She did work in the Senate though and as SOS, she absolutely had to work with the most far right-wing guys.  I get a sense they respect her to the degree that they believe she is competent, but they absolutely do not trust her at all.  But who cares?  They have screwed Obama over to the point he's had no ability to do anything productive for the country.  I like that we have three branches of government but it's probably time to have the legislative and executive branches in sync for at least a few years, to fix the real problems we have. 

 
Sand said:
FishTacoTuesday said:
So it's not that U.S. corporations or the market movers are struggling, they aren't as they are racking in record profits.  It's just that now more of the work is being done elsewhere, and less money is being invested in domestic systems and people.  That said we aren't even close to being the most expensive place to produce things, Japan and Europe make things in the U.S. because it's cheaper to do it here. 
Click to expand...
First one is a bit wrong - US profits have stagnated and are actually declining a bit in the last year or two.  That's why the markets are pretty expensive right now.  Second one is very wrong - US manufacturing is, frankly, a juggernaut in size and scope.  We took a big hit in 2008, but are back to record output.  The jobs haven't come back due to efficiency gains.  But make no mistake about it - US manufacturing is a huge engine.  The output from that sector is greater than the GDP of Japan.  All of Japan.

Anyway, back to the debate.  Color me impressed with the moderator in this one.  Much more balanced questioning and much more substansive issues covered.  Miles above the other two.
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No idea what this means.  Where did I say that US manufacturing is dead?  What I said is we send more work overseas than we did 40 years ago.  You disagree with that? 

 
FishTacoTuesday said:
No idea what this means.  Where did I say that US manufacturing is dead?  What I said is we send more work overseas than we did 40 years ago.  You disagree with that? 
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Usually when people say this they mean that the sector is offshoring itself wholesale.  If I read too much into your statement that's my mistake.

 
Sand said:
FishTacoTuesday said:
No idea what this means.  Where did I say that US manufacturing is dead?  What I said is we send more work overseas than we did 40 years ago.  You disagree with that? 
Click to expand...
Usually when people say this they mean that the sector is offshoring itself wholesale.  If I read too much into your statement that's my mistake.
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It's all good, always enjoy your economic and finance posts.  :hifive:

 
NCCommish said:
Actually she better move to the left or she will be gone. If she tries to triangulate and play third way games she better hope the GOP runs the love child of a three way between Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini raised by Mao. If you haven't noticed the American public is pissed. They are tired of policy not reflecting their wants. And I think those wants have been made pretty clear. They aren't in line with the donor class at all.
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I think you're right at least partly. But it ignores the political reality which is this: let's say Hillary doesn't move to the left but stays in the center, or, to use your language "with the donor class." If that happens she will no doubt be challenged by someone to her left (perhaps Warren?) in 2020. But you know and I know that Hillary is probably too strong for that challenge to work. She'll still have the black vote in the south, plus DNC support, and that will probably be enough. 

And then what? No matter who Hillary faces in the general election, she'll have the same demographic advantages she has now, probably more so, given the growing Latino population in the southwest. 

I believe that you are right in the long run. This nation is moving to the left, and eventually we're going to have leadership that is going to make NC Commish pretty happy. But in my estimation we're about 8-12 years away. 

 
timschochet said:
I think you're right at least partly. But it ignores the political reality which is this: let's say Hillary doesn't move to the left but stays in the center, or, to use your language "with the donor class." If that happens she will no doubt be challenged by someone to her left (perhaps Warren?) in 2020. But you know and I know that Hillary is probably too strong for that challenge to work. She'll still have the black vote in the south, plus DNC support, and that will probably be enough. 

And then what? No matter who Hillary faces in the general election, she'll have the same demographic advantages she has now, probably more so, given the growing Latino population in the southwest. 

I believe that you are right in the long run. This nation is moving to the left, and eventually we're going to have leadership that is going to make NC Commish pretty happy. But in my estimation we're about 8-12 years away. 
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Seriously?A guy who called.himself a socialist and started with 6%name recognition almost took away her nomination

 Had he started a year earlier? Might not have been almost. Currently.according to the poll that was the most accurate last cycle she has a 1 point lead over a lunatic. She also has an enthusiasm gap. People aren't very excited about voting for her.

 She is not well liked and she will be ripe for the picking if she doesn't do more than make Republicans and the banks happy.

 
I thought Hillary wiped the floor with Donald in the debate but there were 3 spots where it did not seem to me she did real well. 

One was the question about open boarders where she supposedly said that she was in favor of them in a speech. Her answer was that it wasn't a full quote and she was referring to energy.  If what she is saying is true that was a pretty bad question but I would like to know the truth on that.

The second was the question about pay for play with her foundation. She seemed pretty uncomfortable there but of course did rightly show the hypocrisy of Trump criticizing her when you look at the way his operates.

The third was where Trump was saying she paid people in Chicago to disrupt or riot? Can't remember how he worded it...at his rally. This is the first I have heard of this particular accusation. I wonder if it is actually true.

 
irishidiot said:
so a black sheriff & you diss him :    "is pretty much".? we talking Uncle Tom here.  Explain.

Thank you
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You're the one who.keeps making it about race.  He went on TV and said if Trump.loses the people should react violently. They should get out the pitchforks and torches. Don't care what color he is that is sedition.

 
NREC34 said:
The third was where Trump was saying she paid people in Chicago to disrupt or riot? Can't remember how he worded it...at his rally. This is the first I have heard of this particular accusation. I wonder if it is actually true.
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Yeah, this is the subject of the James O'Keefe video, which I had been ignoring because it's James O'Keefe. But after watching Donna Brazille fumble her way through the interview by Megyn Kelly, I'm no longer inclined to dismiss it out of hand.

 
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