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***Official 2017-18 Hot Stove League Thread: Peter Bourjos & Ryan Flaherty are signs the end is near (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eephus
- Start date
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
I think the question should be "do I consider Longo a top ten 3rd basemen" because in 2018, I do not
Norseman
Footballguy
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Limp Ditka
Footballguy
rodg12
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
If/when Giants management decides the current core is done. I think we've passed that point already.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Norseman
Footballguy
He won the gold glove. So defensively he was #1.
He hit more HR than any other year of his career.
Easily inside the top 10 in 2017.
Eephus
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Metrics don't back up the GG award which is well known as a popularity award. Derek Jeter clapclap clapclapclap
He hit 20 HR last year. That's more than any year in his career?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Location:the sunshine state
I'm sensing some butthurt blind homerism from norseman
I'm sensing some butthurt blind homerism from norseman
Norseman
Footballguy
Norseman
Footballguy
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Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
You keep saying that, and you're right of course, but they are only willing to spend a finite amount of money, an amount which appears to consistently be just south of the luxury tax. If they spend that money poorly, they're going to be bad.It's not my money
If Longoria bumps them up 2.5 WAR at 3B, how much do they lose at LF with Span gone? 1.5? So they net a win here, at least for 2018, but how many years until Arroyo is out-performing Longoria? 2-3? If they're not willing to rip off the Band-Aid now, will they ever?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
If Longo has one benefit, its that he's relatively cheap. I'd gamble on him still being middle of the road in 3 years before betting on Arroyo wearing a big league uniform 3 years from today. .You keep saying that, and you're right of course, but they are only willing to spend a finite amount of money, an amount which appears to consistently be just south of the luxury tax. If they spend that money poorly, they're going to be bad.
If Longoria bumps them up 2.5 WAR at 3B, how much do they lose at LF with Span gone? 1.5? So they net a win here, at least for 2018, but how many years until Arroyo is out-performing Longoria? 2-3? If they're not willing to rip off the Band-Aid now, will they ever?
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
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Eephus
Footballguy
My snappy comeback re: Denard Span would have been it's not that hard to find replacement level corner OFs but after watching the 2017 Giants, I'm not so sure. I guess we'll have to wait and see who's manning the OF slots come opening day. The IF and rotation are pretty much sorted now and the Longoria trade means the end of the Panda travesty, so there's that.You keep saying that, and you're right of course, but they are only willing to spend a finite amount of money, an amount which appears to consistently be just south of the luxury tax. If they spend that money poorly, they're going to be bad.
If Longoria bumps them up 2.5 WAR at 3B, how much do they lose at LF with Span gone? 1.5? So they net a win here, at least for 2018, but how many years until Arroyo is out-performing Longoria? 2-3? If they're not willing to rip off the Band-Aid now, will they ever?
I understand what Sabean/Evans are trying to do. Getting one or two more competitive years out of the WS core may work out. 2020-21 is going to be ugly regardless of whether Christian Arroyo is in Tampa or here.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
He does this to Goodell, he's collecting an unemployment check by New Years
Eephus
Footballguy
Longoria likely has two very bad, not good years at the end of his deal ($18.5M in 2021, $19.5M in 2022) but Smarj and Melancon will be off the books by then
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
I think the reality is that the majority of teams will be swallowing a bad $20M contract or two by then.Longoria likely has two very bad, not good years at the end of his deal ($18.5M in 2021, $19.5M in 2022) but Smarj and Melancon will be off the books by then
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
But sometimes you don't see 'em coming. SF seems like they're walking into this, to get a couple years of whatever's between Longoria's peak and complete collapse, when they're completely unequipped to catch LA. I think they're even a longshot to get a WC, behind ARI, STL.
rodg12
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
Cleveland bets 2/$18M (plus a vesting option) on Yonder Alonso to do it again.
An age 30 power breakout is pretty rare. His 2017 HR/FB% of 14.9% was over twice his career average and four times his 2015-16 mark. His SO rate was also way up which suggests a change in approach.
An age 30 power breakout is pretty rare. His 2017 HR/FB% of 14.9% was over twice his career average and four times his 2015-16 mark. His SO rate was also way up which suggests a change in approach.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
JaxBill
Footballguy
I can't believe Manfred had the stones to compare Houston's savvy moves to collect young talent to the Marlins fire sale where they made it known that they were slashing payroll and the returns were pennies on the dollar.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Rumor is that Cubs offer for Machado is Russell (4) , Almora (5), Montgomery (4).
3 MLB players, number of years of control next to the names. This is not a bad offer for 1 year of Machado. If the O's want more than that, they only have themselves to blame for not moving him at deadline last year.
3 MLB players, number of years of control next to the names. This is not a bad offer for 1 year of Machado. If the O's want more than that, they only have themselves to blame for not moving him at deadline last year.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Stellar last 24 hours in Brewersville as they land YoGa and Jhoulys Chacin
Eephus
Footballguy
Chacin was solid for San Diego and 2/$16M seems like a decent price for a back-end SP.Stellar last 24 hours in Brewersville as they land YoGa and Jhoulys Chacin
I don't think Gallardo has anything left but the Brewers have had some success with resurrecting pitchers. It doesn't cost much to see what he's got as a plan B if Hader or Woodruff aren't deemed ready.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Didn't even look at the $'s. Couldn't get past the names before falling ill.
Chacin thrived at PetCo last year, was Chacin everywhere else. Pitching in Miller Park is everywhere else and them some. With the parks and lineups in the NLC he'll be lucky to have an ERA under 6
Chacin thrived at PetCo last year, was Chacin everywhere else. Pitching in Miller Park is everywhere else and them some. With the parks and lineups in the NLC he'll be lucky to have an ERA under 6
Eephus
Footballguy
His extreme home/road BABIP splits seem like a sample size anomaly.
I look at HRs allowed first for Petco/non-Petco stats and they weren't too bad. He'll give up some more taters in Milwaukee but if his sinker continues to sink, he should be OK.
strykerpks
Footballguy
I read somewhere on the tweeters that his slider had the 2nd highest whiff rate in MLB last year. He could be a solid back end guy if he keeps the ball down
The Gallardo signing is meh. He's not guaranteed anything, it's basically just an invite to camp. With all the injuries they had last year, they just need bodies/innings at this point.
They were a surprise last year but remember, they are still rebuilding. They can't compete with the big boys just yet so the bargain hunting will continue.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
2010
2012
2014
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
The Giants seem pretty focused on getting under the CBT threshold in 2018 so any Ellsbury deal would probably have to involve Samardzija or Cueto.
If Cashman calls with an offer of Ellsbury and prospects for one of the two pitchers, I wouldn't hang up the phone immediately. I don't know why the Yankees would want to add another expensive arm other than you can always use another pitcher.
If Cashman calls with an offer of Ellsbury and prospects for one of the two pitchers, I wouldn't hang up the phone immediately. I don't know why the Yankees would want to add another expensive arm other than you can always use another pitcher.
Hilts
Footballguy
That's an amazing offer if it's true.
Orioles are reportedly no longer shopping Machado and expect him to stay put.
Eephus
Footballguy
I don't know why the Cubs would make that deal when they can sign him as a FA next off-season.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The money's about the same, but as long as the prospects are of the middling variety, I'd pull the trigger on that deal if I were Cashman and if Ellsbury signs off. But apparently NY is pretty far down the road with Cole.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
The Cubs might be kicking the tires on Ellsbury. It's predicated mostly on how much salary the Yankees are willing to eat, but the Cubs would like to use him in the similar way they used Jon Jay last season.
jfranco77
Footballguy
That must be contingent on Machado signing an extension. Theo and Jed would be run out of town if they gave up all that for 1 year of Machado.
I guess it's all a moot point now anyway.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Interesting yet somewhat depressing stuff from Marc Topkin about Rays
So, with Longoria gone, who’s on third?
It would be a neat story if Arroyo, who grew up in Brooksville a Longoria fan, got to step right in and launch his stellar 10-year career. But that’s probably not going to happen, for reasons we’ll get to later. As of today, the answer is — no, not quite elusive as a Bigfoot sighting — Matt Duffy, the infielder acquired in the last big trade with the Giants (Aug. 1, 2016, for Matt Moore), who missed all of 2017 with complications from heel surgery. But he’s said to be 100 percent, and ready to go.
What about the rest of the infield?
Again, a lot can change, especially if the Rays were to trade shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria. But for now, put Duffy at third, Hechavarria at short, and a long list of candidates at second, either from the young guys (Daniel Robertson, Willy Adames, maybe but probably not Arroyo) or the new guys (Micah Johnson, Ryan Schimpf, Joey Wendle). At first, write in Brad Miller but spell it TBA. That’s because the Rays seem likely to trade either Corey Dickerson or Span, which would allow Miller to move to the DH spot, and them to add a better fielding first baseman from what should be a decent late-winter inventory.
Who else might get traded?
Longoria was obviously the biggest name the Rays could deal, and having pulled off that Band-Aid why wouldn’t they keep going for a total rebuild and trade any other big-name player they can back another solid piece in return and further trim salary? They’re not just going to dump talent, but going into the off-season the likely trade list started with closer Alex Colome, starters Chris Archer and/or Jake Odorizzi, Dickerson, catcher Wilson Ramos, Miller and Hechavarria. And now add Span to that list. Taking on his guaranteed $13-million was part of the deal, but with Mallex Smith available the Rays don’t really have a need for Span and would seem to be better off flipping him for another prospect.
So, with Longoria gone, who’s on third?
It would be a neat story if Arroyo, who grew up in Brooksville a Longoria fan, got to step right in and launch his stellar 10-year career. But that’s probably not going to happen, for reasons we’ll get to later. As of today, the answer is — no, not quite elusive as a Bigfoot sighting — Matt Duffy, the infielder acquired in the last big trade with the Giants (Aug. 1, 2016, for Matt Moore), who missed all of 2017 with complications from heel surgery. But he’s said to be 100 percent, and ready to go.
What about the rest of the infield?
Again, a lot can change, especially if the Rays were to trade shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria. But for now, put Duffy at third, Hechavarria at short, and a long list of candidates at second, either from the young guys (Daniel Robertson, Willy Adames, maybe but probably not Arroyo) or the new guys (Micah Johnson, Ryan Schimpf, Joey Wendle). At first, write in Brad Miller but spell it TBA. That’s because the Rays seem likely to trade either Corey Dickerson or Span, which would allow Miller to move to the DH spot, and them to add a better fielding first baseman from what should be a decent late-winter inventory.
Who else might get traded?
Longoria was obviously the biggest name the Rays could deal, and having pulled off that Band-Aid why wouldn’t they keep going for a total rebuild and trade any other big-name player they can back another solid piece in return and further trim salary? They’re not just going to dump talent, but going into the off-season the likely trade list started with closer Alex Colome, starters Chris Archer and/or Jake Odorizzi, Dickerson, catcher Wilson Ramos, Miller and Hechavarria. And now add Span to that list. Taking on his guaranteed $13-million was part of the deal, but with Mallex Smith available the Rays don’t really have a need for Span and would seem to be better off flipping him for another prospect.
