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***Official 2017 NCAA Hoops Tourney thread: Congrats UNC, all the refs from NCCG should be banned for life*** (1 Viewer)

FreeBaGeL said:
First one he was being super lazy, didn't even think UNC was going for the rebound.  Second one it seemed like he decided "ok I'm technically in the boxing out stance, so I guess I can kind of just half ### it now and not actually put any strength into it".
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You would think after the first one he would have been hell bent on blocking out, especially with Meeks on that side. 

 
Terrific efforts by the underdogs today though and both had great runs.  South Carolina out of no where and Oregon without one of their best players. 

 
TLEF316 said:
Just brutal. The first one was worse. Bell had his thumb up his ### looking up at the ball.

So so bad.
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I just don't get it.  It's the FINAL FOUR.  There's FIVE SECONDS LEFT.  If you were EVER going to box out, is that not the moment?  So he does nothing the first time...literally ZERO attempt to check his guy.  So then, after you've given up an offensive board with five seconds to go in the Final Four, don't you box the #### out of your guy with FOUR SECONDS LEFT IN THE FINAL FOUR??  JFC.  

I'm not a Ducks fan, but I'm so mad.

 
:lmao:   :cry:

Possibly the worst game of basketball I've ever seen.  200, maybe 225 Division I teams would have won that game in Oregon's Nike shoes.  

I love coaches who try to run with UNC.  Works like a charm every time.

 
Tarcheaters steal another one. Here's to that offensive tackle that other team has playing for them squash them all Monday night. 

 
TLEF316 said:
No way those misses were on purpose, especially the first one. They just choked. Oregon just choked worse.
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The last one was definitely missed on purpose.  Berry changed his motion to overshoot it and bang it off the back iron.  

Good strategy, too.  With Oregon out of timeouts, it's tougher for them to rebound a miss and turn up the court.  Off a make, no time goes off the clock while they set up an inbounds run.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
The last one was definitely missed on purpose.  Berry changed his motion to overshoot it and bang it off the back iron.  

Good strategy, too.  With Oregon out of timeouts, it's tougher for them to rebound a miss and turn up the court.  Off a make, no time goes off the clock while they set up an inbounds run.
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in a one point game with 4 seconds left, that's dumb if true.  

 
SayWhat? said:
I just don't get it.  It's the FINAL FOUR.  There's FIVE SECONDS LEFT.  If you were EVER going to box out, is that not the moment?  So he does nothing the first time...literally ZERO attempt to check his guy.  So then, after you've given up an offensive board with five seconds to go in the Final Four, don't you box the #### out of your guy with FOUR SECONDS LEFT IN THE FINAL FOUR??  JFC.  

I'm not a Ducks fan, but I'm so mad.
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He was probably thinking that Meeks wouldn't go for the rebound, because there was a chance that the ref would call a foul.  And as you said earlier, you can't put the ref in a position where he could possibly make a call like that.  I mean if he calls it, UNC loses...so no way they should have went for those rebounds, right???

 
Prince Myshkin said:
He was probably thinking that Meeks wouldn't go for the rebound, because there was a chance that the ref would call a foul.  And as you said earlier, you can't put the ref in a position where he could possibly make a call like that.  I mean if he calls it, UNC loses...so no way they should have went for those rebounds, right???
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No way a ref is calling a foul against UNC there. I said out loud they would be coming hard because they know there is no risk. 

 
Prince Myshkin said:
He was probably thinking that Meeks wouldn't go for the rebound, because there was a chance that the ref would call a foul.  And as you said earlier, you can't put the ref in a position where he could possibly make a call like that.  I mean if he calls it, UNC loses...so no way they should have went for those rebounds, right???
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There was six seconds on the shot clock, and Berry picked up bus dribble 35 feet from the hoop.  If you have any basketball brains, you understand you don't reach for the ball.  You clearly, do not.  Carry on.  

 
Prince Myshkin said:
in a one point game with 4 seconds left, that's dumb if true.  
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With four seconds left and the ball at the other end, there isn't that much difference between a 1- or 2-point lead.  Highly unlikely the opponent gets a 2-point shot off, even less so if you guard the inbounder.

Make the free throw, team can take it out of bounds and throw a pass near half court and have the ball there when the clock starts moving.  There's time to take a couple dribbles or throw another pass before it's time to shoot. 

Miss the free throw, and the clock starts moving when the ball is touched next and the opponent isn't set up to attack.  One pass maximum, highly unlikely you get a shot in the frontcourt.

Four seconds is about the longest amount of time I'd consider calling for an automatic miss.  Not sure how much it helps with more time left than that.

 
SayWhat? said:
There was six seconds on the shot clock, and Berry picked up bus dribble 35 feet from the hoop.  If you have any basketball brains, you understand you don't reach for the ball.  You clearly, do not.  Carry on.  
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:lmao:  You can't have it both ways.  There was 4 seconds left in the damn game, 90 feet away from the basket.  You can't go over the back and give the other team 2 free throws in that situation.  So either Meeks screwed up or Brooks didn't...Only difference is the ref blew the whistle (wrongly) in one case but not the other.  You see it one way, I see it the other.  

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
With four seconds left and the ball at the other end, there isn't that much difference between a 1- or 2-point lead.  Highly unlikely the opponent gets a 2-point shot off, even less so if you guard the inbounder.

Make the free throw, team can take it out of bounds and throw a pass near half court and have the ball there when the clock starts moving.  There's time to take a couple dribbles or throw another pass before it's time to shoot. 

Miss the free throw, and the clock starts moving when the ball is touched next and the opponent isn't set up to attack.  One pass maximum, highly unlikely you get a shot in the frontcourt.

Four seconds is about the longest amount of time I'd consider calling for an automatic miss.  Not sure how much it helps with more time left than that.
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Too much can happen in 4 seconds IMO.  A foul in a 1 point game and you lose (potentially).  A foul in a 2 point game and you go to overtime.  And if you are missing it intentionally, you can't go after the offensive rebound like that and take a chance at over the back.  

I agree completely with less than 2 seconds.  But I back my guys off the line and have them go after (without fouling) the rebounder to make the full court shot tougher. 

 
I thought oregon's shot was with 10 seconds left and they passed up a 3 for that easy 2 because Carolina was guarding the line. With about 8 seconds, playing the free throw game seems like bad math to me. Same thing with SC passing up the 3 and then getting fouled. Nobody wanted to take it. 

 
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Capella said:
I thought oregon's shot was with 10 seconds left and they passed up a 3 for that easy 2 because Carolina was guarding the line. With about 8 seconds, playing the free throw game seems like bad math to me. Same thing with SC passing up the 3 and then getting fouled. Nobody wanted to take it. 
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Take the 2 every time in that situation.

 
Capella said:
I thought oregon's #### was with 10 seconds left and they passed up a 3 for that easy 2 because Carolina was guarding the line. With about 8 seconds, playing the free throw game seems like bad math to me. Same thing with SC passing up the 3 and then getting fouled. Nobody wanted to take it. 
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The play that drove me nuts was the botched alley-oop when they were down five.  

 
Capella said:
I thought oregon's shot was with 10 seconds left and they passed up a 3 for that easy 2 because Carolina was guarding the line. With about 8 seconds, playing the free throw game seems like bad math to me. Same thing with SC passing up the 3 and then getting fouled. Nobody wanted to take it. 
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I think they needed to foul on the possession before.  There was an 11 second difference between game and shot clocks and they were down 3. They got the stop, so it worked out as well as it could have, and they were still stuck into taking a bad three or easy 2 with 6 seconds left.  

 
Capella said:
I thought oregon's shot was with 10 seconds left and they passed up a 3 for that easy 2 because Carolina was guarding the line. With about 8 seconds, playing the free throw game seems like bad math to me. Same thing with SC passing up the 3 and then getting fouled. Nobody wanted to take it. 
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They played it right.  Get an offensive rebound and you're down 1 with 6 seconds left.  With athletic as they are, I'd take that over a 3.  They were awful from the 3 point line.

 
Prince Myshkin said:
:lmao:  You can't have it both ways.  There was 4 seconds left in the damn game, 90 feet away from the basket.  You can't go over the back and give the other team 2 free throws in that situation.  So either Meeks screwed up or Brooks didn't...Only difference is the ref blew the whistle (wrongly) in one case but not the other.  You see it one way, I see it the other.  
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Have it both ways?  I said Brooks made a blatantly moronic play.  He had his guy dead to rights with six seconds left on the shot clock, 35 feet from the hoop.  There's little to no reward for reaching in that situation.  You're almost assuredly getting the stop you desperately need, but not when you reach and give the ref the opportunity to blow his whistle.  And yes, as a coach you teach these things.  You don't say "well the ref made a bad call but damn, that was a great play!"  No, it was a dumb play.  And that's not even accounting for the fact it was Brooks' 5th foul.

I have no comment about Meeks on the offensive glass.  Live, I didn't think it was a foul, though on replay he used his mass to uproot Bell.  That's not getting called with four seconds left in a Final Four game, 90 feet from the hoop.  Bell should've hooked the #### out of Meeks and made sure he didn't get through or around him.  

 
Prince Myshkin said:
I think they needed to foul on the possession before.  There was an 11 second difference between game and shot clocks and they were down 3. They got the stop, so it worked out as well as it could have, and they were still stuck into taking a bad three or easy 2 with 6 seconds left.  
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Ok, now you've lost any benefit of the doubt.  Down three points on defense with 42 on the game clock, there are near zero situations where you foul intentionally.  Please don't coach any youth teams.

 
Capella said:
To get a half-assed shot with 6 seconds and no timeouts to get set? Nah. 
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6 seconds is an eternity. So much can happen. Can steal the inbounds pass. Offensive foul. Jump ball. Miss a long chuck there down 3 and game is over. They got a bit unlucky on two tough bounces on those missed ft's. Had a guy wide open under the basket, gotta take the 2. If you were on Ore +4.5 that was the prettiest play of the day by a mile.

 
Capella said:
That was also awful. 
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Yup. hated that one as well as the 3 that Pritchard (pretty sure it was him) took after UNC Jackson threw the pass over Berry's head with less than a minute to go. They were down 4 and them settling yet AGAIN gave UNC the opportunity to catch their breath. Had Dorsey not gotten that miracle bounce on the 3 on the next possession, that would have been the ball game.

Oregon just settled way too much all night. They should have worked much harder to work Meeks into mis-matches off PnR or attack Berry, who was clearly hobbled. Instead it was basically east-west drives and then a long 3 over and over again

 
Willie Neslon said:
6 seconds is an eternity. So much can happen. Can steal the inbounds pass. Offensive foul. Jump ball. Miss a long chuck there down 3 and game is over. They got a bit unlucky on two tough bounces on those missed ft's. Had a guy wide open under the basket, gotta take the 2. If you were on Ore +4.5 that was the prettiest play of the day by a mile.
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But one of those dudes had a wide open look right then to tie. With time to get a board. Too many of these teams are playing hot potato with the ball and then trying to catch the river in these closing situations. It's been awful all tournament. 

 
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Pretty much every play by Oregon in the second half was awful.  And I feel really bad for saying this because the Duck fans on here are fantastic people.  But a certain school/Afro-American Studies department just wins Final Four games in the most unbelievable ways.

 
TLEF316 said:
Yup. hated that one as well as the 3 that Pritchard (pretty sure it was him) took after UNC Jackson threw the pass over Berry's head with less than a minute to go. They were down 4 and them settling yet AGAIN gave UNC the opportunity to catch their breath. Had Dorsey not gotten that miracle bounce on the 3 on the next possession, that would have been the ball game.

Oregon just settled way too much all night. They should have worked much harder to work Meeks into mis-matches off PnR or attack Berry, who was clearly hobbled. Instead it was basically east-west drives and then a long 3 over and over again
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Coupled with track-meet-style defense.  Just a mind-boggling coaching job by Altman. 

 
SayWhat? said:
Ok, now you've lost any benefit of the doubt.  Down three points on defense with 42 on the game clock, there are near zero situations where you foul intentionally.  Please don't coach any youth teams.
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Look man, no need to make this personal. If you want to compare coaching resumes, we can, but there's no need to get in a pissing contest.  

I think calling a kid a moron for making a legal basketball play that was called a foul incorrectly is wrong.  

As for fouling in late game situations, I saw Jim Valvano foul intentionally in a TIE game during NC State's championship run.  I don't suppose he was qualified to coach youth league though.  UNC is a good FT shooting team (last 4 notwithstanding), but I happen to think the odds of Oregon getting a stop without fouling late and then getting 3 points to tie it in under 15 seconds are not very good.  I mean, everything went as perfect as possible for Oregon (up to the rebound on the FT) and they were still going to have to get it up the court and a basket in 5.6 seconds.  Possible, yes.  But that's the best case scenario by not fouling.  And it took a 64% FT shooter going 0-2 (after being 3-4 for the game) to make that happen. 

 
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TLEF316 said:
Yup. hated that one as well as the 3 that Pritchard (pretty sure it was him) took after UNC Jackson threw the pass over Berry's head with less than a minute to go. They were down 4 and them settling yet AGAIN gave UNC the opportunity to catch their breath. Had Dorsey not gotten that miracle bounce on the 3 on the next possession, that would have been the ball game.

Oregon just settled way too much all night. They should have worked much harder to work Meeks into mis-matches off PnR or attack Berry, who was clearly hobbled. Instead it was basically east-west drives and then a long 3 over and over again
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Not putting Meeks into the spin cycle with the pick and rolls was also unbelievable. Didn't even think about that. Bet Gonzaga doesn't miss that. 

 
Lots of great matchups in the UNC/Gonzaga game.  

Looking forward to the point guard matchup and Jackson vs. Matthews.  Jackson has been really good defensively the last 2 games, giving Monk and Dorsey fits with his length.  

 
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