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***Official 2018 St. Louis Cardinals Thread*** -- Matheny gone (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
What do you think will happen with Carlos Martinez's usage? He's at 40% more IP this year than last year's 99.2 and the most he's ever thrown in a season was 104. Yesterday he was pulled after 74 pitches.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Yesterday was more about effectiveness that workrate. He gave up four runs in the top of the fifth and was due to lead off the bottom. So he got yanked for a pinch-hitter. However, the question about season-long usage still stands, primarily because of the usage jump over last season, but also because the team has a 5-game lead in the division and and even bigger over the other division leaders. There's also some recent history to give concern: under similar circumstances a couple years ago, the Cards shut down Shelby Miller without formally announcing it to anyone.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Tonight's Devil Magic:
Piscotty gets his first major league triple and scores the go-ahead run in the first game with Grichuk on the DL.
Said go-ahead run is scored on a throwing error by Brandon Crawford.
Piscotty gets his first major league triple and scores the go-ahead run in the first game with Grichuk on the DL.
Said go-ahead run is scored on a throwing error by Brandon Crawford.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
And two of the outs in the top of the 9th are fly outs to the track.
It's like winning conventionally bores them.
It's like winning conventionally bores them.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
YADI! YADI! YADI! YADI!
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Going to suck when the day comes that we find he was the reason the pitching was always better than expected.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
He's a triple-threat behind the plate: plus caller, plus-plus framer, and no one even bothers running on him. I'd like to think he's a sure-fire HOFer, but he probably hasn't hit enough home runs to get into Cooperstown.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Pudge was great in the 90s, and then you have guys like Campanella, Dickey, and Carter that have claims.
I think Yadi is top 3 easily, IMO.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
No. If you accept the premise that it is tougher to be an effective catcher now than it was in any earlier era, it's not crazy at all.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
I'm not sure about that. Deadball era catchers like Roger Bresnahan and Buck Ewing had minimal protective gear by modern standards, dealt with more stolen base attempts and had to catch dirty, scuffed up spheroids that wouldn't be suitable for BP nowadays. Catchers up until recently bore full responsibility for calling pitches and didn't have reams of historical data available before games and between innings. While tracking of pitch framing is new, I suspect smart catchers have been doing this instinctively for a long time.
Catchers haven't gotten a lot of love from HoF voters. Bill Freehan was the Molina of his day and he was one and done on the ballot. Ted Simmons has been near the bottom of vet committee voting. The best current and near-future candidates (Piazza and Pudge) are being painted with the broad brush of PEDs. Molina has been a great player but he's entered his decline phase now and probably won't get a huge number of MVP shares going forward. He'll have his supporters when he goes on the ballot but I think he'll struggle to make 75%. Hope I'm wrong.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
You're arguing a different point than the one I was making. Obviously Yadi isn't in any type of historical greatness discussion if we assume the difficulty of the catcher job has remained constant or gotten easier over time. However, I will say Yadi is a "victim" of his own success on the lack of stolen base attempts he sees: teams got so tired of watching him throw out would-be basestealers they pretty much stopped running on him. His thrown-out percentage is artificially low because of this, too.Yadi is 2nd all-time in Total Zone Runs as a C behind Pudge, about 75% of Pudge's TZR is about 60% of the games. I'm sure Yadi's lofty status in all-time TZR is due to that stat heavily skewed towards modern players because of increased available data in the modern game, but no active catcher is likely to reach half of Yadi's TZR total by the end of their careers.Eephus said:
I'll be shocked if Yadi has even a 10% ballot year in HOF voting. Jorge Pasada, Buster Posey, and Joe Mauer will all get more HOF consideration.
Eephus
Footballguy
SB and CS rates haven't changed significantly since the turn of the century. This is even though R/G and HR rates are down over the same period. My guess is analytics have something to with it and teams are getting more situational about SB but I'm a bit surprised the success rates haven't really budged. Maybe it's all related to the Molina brothers and all hell will break out when Yadi retires.
I think Pudge is a first ballot HoF guy but I think Canseco's allegations will sour enough people on his candidacy. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
In the Pirates thread I compared this season's Cardinals to a long game of Jenga. Amazed how tall the tower has gotten, stunned it hasn't collapsed yet.
Now they're just toying with the NL. Mitch Harris pitching the 8th and 9th? Why not? Stanley, Pham, and Moss turning no on and two out into a game-winning 9th-inning rally? Just like everyone on the MetroLink eastbound to Busch III for the game said it would end.
Now they're just toying with the NL. Mitch Harris pitching the 8th and 9th? Why not? Stanley, Pham, and Moss turning no on and two out into a game-winning 9th-inning rally? Just like everyone on the MetroLink eastbound to Busch III for the game said it would end.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
If they could get Moss productive at first and IF Holliday and Grichuk could get back before the post-season...
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Would be great to get Walden back, too. What's it been, 5 months? He's to this bullpen what Webster was to Easy Company.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Lyons instead of Wacha tonight. Hope the resting strategy for the stretch run doesn't backfire.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
It's a very smart move. They have a tough matchup tonight anyways so why not line him up against the Bucs. If they win tonight, it's gravy.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Not arguing with the theory. But pitchers tend to be creatures of habit. Getting them out of their routine, especially when they're grooving, makes me nervous.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
How long until he figures out you can't put this guy in a high leverage situation? And by high leverage, I mean any MLB game regardless of the score.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Of all the reasons why it is important to get Jordan Walden back, "one fewer reason for Matheny to call the bullpen and say, 'Get Broxton up' " might be the most important.How long until he figures out you can't put this guy in a high leverage situation? And by high leverage, I mean any MLB game regardless of the score.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Am I the only one that feels most comfortable when Maness is brought in than any other reliever? He may not have the strikeout capabilities that most of the other relievers do, but I've never once watched him brought in and said "Uh oh, why him?" or "Oh boy, here we go". In fact, it's the exact opposite.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
I get less anxious when Maness puts a runner on than when Rosenthal does. I feel like Maness can make the next batter hit a two-hopper right at Peralta, where Rosenthal has to risk an extra-base hit to get that strikeout or popout.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Yeesh.
Cole pitched a GREAT game and PIT deserved to win tonight.
However...
What purpose was served sending Lackey out to pitch the top of the 8th against the middle of the order?
Case for: He was only on 92 pitches, pitcher's spot was leading off bottom of 8th, down two runs with Cole dealing death so game was pretty much a lost cause.
Case against: fourth trip through the order, pitch count was going to get well into triple digits to finish the 8th, no way Lackey pitches that 8th in a playoff game so may as well practice for that, whomever finished the 8th was going to be lifted for a pinch-hitter in the bottom no matter what.
Would much rather seen what Cishek could have done starting the 8th with no one on, even knowing he gave up two runs when the finally brought him in.
Based on what I saw tonight and all season, I really, REALLY hope PIT uses Cole in the wild card game.
Cole pitched a GREAT game and PIT deserved to win tonight.
However...
What purpose was served sending Lackey out to pitch the top of the 8th against the middle of the order?
Case for: He was only on 92 pitches, pitcher's spot was leading off bottom of 8th, down two runs with Cole dealing death so game was pretty much a lost cause.
Case against: fourth trip through the order, pitch count was going to get well into triple digits to finish the 8th, no way Lackey pitches that 8th in a playoff game so may as well practice for that, whomever finished the 8th was going to be lifted for a pinch-hitter in the bottom no matter what.
Would much rather seen what Cishek could have done starting the 8th with no one on, even knowing he gave up two runs when the finally brought him in.
Based on what I saw tonight and all season, I really, REALLY hope PIT uses Cole in the wild card game.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
There is 0 chance that the Bucs go with anyone but Cole in the WC game. Just like there is 0 chance that the Cubs go with anyone but Arrieta. That could be a great battle but I just think Arrieta has possibly been the best pitcher in baseball since the AS break. Either way, the Cards would catch a break to not have to face either of those guys twice in a 5 game series. That is the reward for being the best team in baseball over a 162 game season.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
I guess there is too much at stake in the WC game to go with anyone besides the ace. Probably too tough to tell everyone, "We're not trying to win one game; we're trying to win the World Series" at the press conference after losing the WC because you went with the #2 starter so the ace could potentially pitch two games in the DS.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
That strategy would not be a fan favorite decision but it's not necessarily a bad idea. I like the way you think
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Thank you for your kind words.That strategy would not be a fan favorite decision but it's not necessarily a bad idea. I like the way you think
Probably a little easier to defend if the team's top two starters are really close in talent/production. The more I think about it, the less likely I am to send someone besides the ace in the WC game. Would feel like I'm letting the players down by not sending our best out there in a winner-takes-all situation. Also, the DS would need to go the distance for the ace to pitch twice on regular rest unless there are weather delays. There's probably a lot of folks reading this and thinking "DUH!", but sometimes I like to let unconventional thinking play out before discarding it.
Like you said earlier, it's the spoils of having the best record. A one-game playoff after a 162-game season seems silly in a vacuum, but it serves its true purpose in the next round. Don't like it? Do what KC did last year and sweep the DS after winning the WC. That will set up your LCS rotation just how you want it.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
RIP Joaquin Andujar
"There is one word in America that says it all, and that one word is, 'You never know'." - Joaquin Andujar
Joaquin Andujar was one of my favorite players to watch in person. He gave so much extra entertainment the TV cameras rarely picked up.
I've been looking for a video of Andujar's last-warmup-pitch routine before an inning started. He would slap the ball in the air a few times, make a couple extra circles with his arms mid-windup, and gun it to the plate as hard as he could. Every inning without exception. I would occasionally mimic it at practice or while warming up in the bullpen, but never had the guts to do it on the mound during a game. Awesome sauce.
Then there was Andujar's approach to grounders back to the mound. Joaquin would hold the ball and wait until the last possible moment to zip one over to first. Jack Buck would call it, "grounder back to Andujar...... FASTBALL over to first for an out."
And OMG watching Andujar hit! He was technically a switch-hitter, but he would usually hit righty on his first at-bat and lefty on his second, regardless of who was pitching against him. Then on the first pitch, no matter what he would swing with enough force to send all the air out of the stadium. In the stands we would react as if a big gust of wind knocked us over.
RIP Joaquin. You were one-in-a-trillion.
"There is one word in America that says it all, and that one word is, 'You never know'." - Joaquin Andujar
Joaquin Andujar was one of my favorite players to watch in person. He gave so much extra entertainment the TV cameras rarely picked up.
I've been looking for a video of Andujar's last-warmup-pitch routine before an inning started. He would slap the ball in the air a few times, make a couple extra circles with his arms mid-windup, and gun it to the plate as hard as he could. Every inning without exception. I would occasionally mimic it at practice or while warming up in the bullpen, but never had the guts to do it on the mound during a game. Awesome sauce.
Then there was Andujar's approach to grounders back to the mound. Joaquin would hold the ball and wait until the last possible moment to zip one over to first. Jack Buck would call it, "grounder back to Andujar...... FASTBALL over to first for an out."
And OMG watching Andujar hit! He was technically a switch-hitter, but he would usually hit righty on his first at-bat and lefty on his second, regardless of who was pitching against him. Then on the first pitch, no matter what he would swing with enough force to send all the air out of the stadium. In the stands we would react as if a big gust of wind knocked us over.
RIP Joaquin. You were one-in-a-trillion.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Kinda feels like they REALLY needed that.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Not referring to the death of Joaquin Andujar. That's still sad.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Wrong thread, but all things held equal, a slider-dominant lefty is going to give Chicago more trouble than a fastball-dominant righty. Granted, Cole's a better pitcher and I think they probably just have to roll with him, and he's gone through the Cubs pretty easily the couple times he's faced them this year.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Getting guys back and healthy has to help. But is Grichuk really healthy if he can't make throws from the OF?
I still fear the lack of a true ace is going to come back to bite them.
I still fear the lack of a true ace is going to come back to bite them.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Playing the WC winner in the 5-game series is helpful. PIT with only one game of Cole or the Cubs with only one Arrieta start weakens them. The 7-game series favors the deep rotation, except of course when the opponent is sending Greinke and Kershaw out there twice.Bob Sacamano said:
There's no true #1, nor is there a clear #5. So the decision of who to drop out of the playoff rotation is as difficult as who starts Game 1. Lynn, Wacha, and Martinez seem like locks for the playoff rotation, but Lackey has the best overall numbers of the RHSPs, and Garcia has put up ace-like production in limited work. Working in a lefty starter with the RH-heavy bullpen would be nice, too.
I'm wondering if Martinez gets moved to the pen in the playoffs, if only because we know Matheny would actually use him in a high-leverage relief situation. Unlike previous moves like Miller and Wacha who ended up wasting roster spots.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Matt Adams homered today.
Did not expect to say that again this season.
Did not expect to say that again this season.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
I'm finally coming around on this Heyward trade.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Well, in the playoffs.
With all the injuries the team has had this season, I'll take avoiding the Wild Card and playing a competitive NLDS.
With all the injuries the team has had this season, I'll take avoiding the Wild Card and playing a competitive NLDS.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
How long until he figures out you can't put this guy in a high leverage situation? And by high leverage, I mean any MLB game regardless of the score.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
What's next? Maddon complaining about vigilante tactics Heyward used to throw at runners trying to score from third?
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
For whatever it's worth, if the Bucs lose to the Cubs in the WC game, I will be rooting hard for you guys to beat the Cubs and then go all the way. Never thought I would feel that way about a Cardinals team but I do.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
FWIW, the Pirates are the only other NL playoff horse I'm interested in backing. If it can't be the team I've been rooting for my whole life, I'd rather it not be a top-3 market team with enormous advantages.For whatever it's worth, if the Bucs lose to the Cubs in the WC game, I will be rooting hard for you guys to beat the Cubs and then go all the way. Never thought I would feel that way about a Cardinals team but I do.
ETA: And the Pirates fans in this forum are awesome. Lots of passion, knowledge, and enthusiasm for the game.
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