Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Welp.
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***Official 2018 St. Louis Cardinals Thread*** -- Matheny gone (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
RnR
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
"Honey, you're embarrassing me in front of Buster Posey" is really the only decent esurance commercial. :like:
RnR
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
That Lackey trade is still comical.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
500
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Carpenter 3B
Piscotty RF
Holliday LF
Heyward CF
Peralta SS
Moss 1B
Molina C
Wong 2B
Garcia P
Moss swapped in for Grichuk in the lineup. Piscotty moves to RF to accomodate one more lefty bat.
Piscotty RF
Holliday LF
Heyward CF
Peralta SS
Moss 1B
Molina C
Wong 2B
Garcia P
Moss swapped in for Grichuk in the lineup. Piscotty moves to RF to accomodate one more lefty bat.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
BOOM!
Wow, you are more excited for the Soler homer than I thought
Brady Marino
Footballguy
Chicks dig the long ball and so do the Cubs. 
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Carpenter 3B
Piscotty 1B
Holliday LF
Heyward RF
Peralta SS
Grichuk CF
Wong 2B
Cruz C
Lackey P
No Yadi.
Grichuk gets a shot in the field.
Piscotty 1B
Holliday LF
Heyward RF
Peralta SS
Grichuk CF
Wong 2B
Cruz C
Lackey P
No Yadi.
Grichuk gets a shot in the field.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
There's a ton of data saying you need a really, really good reason to leave the starter in for the third trip through the order. But it's still tough to yank a starting pitcher after four innings. I was hoping Wacha's spot would be due in the top of the fifth with a couple runners on, forcing Matheny to consider a pinch-hitter in such a high-leverage spot. But it was not to be.
The bullpen gave up runs, too. I would have brought in Wainwirght to pitch the fifth, but he was hittable last night.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Well, ratfart.
We knew the team defied logic by winning 100 games with the talent level and high injury volume. Just disappointed it caught up with them when it did.
Bullish on next season.
Pay Heyward.
We knew the team defied logic by winning 100 games with the talent level and high injury volume. Just disappointed it caught up with them when it did.
Bullish on next season.
Pay Heyward.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
M & M had their end-of-season press conference yesterday.
The entire coaching staff will be back next season.
Said re-signing Heyward is a priority. Looking to add more offense among position players, there will be some openings in the bullpen, and need to reduce Molina's workload behind the plate.
The entire coaching staff will be back next season.
Said re-signing Heyward is a priority. Looking to add more offense among position players, there will be some openings in the bullpen, and need to reduce Molina's workload behind the plate.
worrierking
Footballguy
Where do we realistically add offense? 1b? Who stays and who goes in the OF? If we sign Heyward, who is the CF? What to do with Holliday?
All of the success of Grichuk and Piscotty means some guys are going to depart. Who? Jay & Bourjos?
All of the success of Grichuk and Piscotty means some guys are going to depart. Who? Jay & Bourjos?
RnR
Footballguy
I hope they're able to land a suitable upgrade for Tony Cruz. His defense is nice, but it is almost like batting two pitchers when he's in the lineup.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Jaime Garcia's option picked up.
Broxton's option declined.
Kozma off of 40-man roster.
Broxton's option declined.
Kozma off of 40-man roster.
RnR
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Eephus
Footballguy
Garcia pulled up lame going into secondI'd say Mozeliak went 3-for-3 with a double on today's decisions.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
$11.5MM option. That's less than what the Red Sox will pay Buchholz next season. Steamer has him at 2.5 WAR next season, a steal at that option price.Garcia pulled up lame going into secondI'd say Mozeliak went 3-for-3 with a double on today's decisions.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Curious to see what the market is for him. Ellsbury got $153MM two winters ago. Plays CF and better track record, but a lot older and FAs have gotten more expensive. $200MM just sounds like too much for a corner outfielder unlikely to hit 20 HRs in any season of that new contract. So, $170MM? 180MM?
Eephus
Footballguy
Steamer also has him down for 136 IP, a mark he hasn't reached since 2011. There's no doubt he has elite groundball skills when healthy. If the Cardinals can get 150 innings out of him and have him available come September, it's a good deal especially for a club like St. Louis with organizational depth and deep pockets.$11.5MM option. That's less than what the Red Sox will pay Buchholz next season. Steamer has him at 2.5 WAR next season, a steal at that option price.Garcia pulled up lame going into secondI'd say Mozeliak went 3-for-3 with a double on today's decisions.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Including postseason, Garcia was 159.1 IP this year, not bad for showing up at around Memorial Day and pitching in the 4 WAR neighborhood.I don't expect him be 1985 John Tudor again, but IMO he was good enough to be worth both the injury and regression risk. $11.5MM on the open market is 1.5-2.0 WAR, a bar I think Garcia clears with 18-20 starts.Steamer also has him down for 136 IP, a mark he hasn't reached since 2011. There's no doubt he has elite groundball skills when healthy. If the Cardinals can get 150 innings out of him and have him available come September, it's a good deal especially for a club like St. Louis with organizational depth and deep pockets.$11.5MM option. That's less than what the Red Sox will pay Buchholz next season. Steamer has him at 2.5 WAR next season, a steal at that option price.Garcia pulled up lame going into secondI'd say Mozeliak went 3-for-3 with a double on today's decisions.
Like you said, without a couple extra arms ready for the rotation it's a tough check to write.
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RnR
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Viva El Birdos had a post today about IMO the second domino of the offseason: who the heck is going to play first base next year, and how often?
Played out the obvious internal solutions: hope Matt Adams is awesome again, platoon Moss/Piscotty, punt on Adams and platoon Moss/Piscotty.
And then they brought up an idea I hadn't considered: move Matt Carpenter to 1B.
The rationale included Carp's power surge to 1B levels, lousy arm costs the team some outs at 3B, good glove and mobility have potential to be a plus defender at 1B. (Author drew comparisons to Keith Hernandez; that's a bit generous, but Steve Garvey is another 1B of that era that came to mind)
Author framed this discussion as the move would be in reaction to bringing in an outsider to the left side, either a new 3B, or a new SS and slide Perslta over to 3B to hide his declining range. But they didn't bring up an internal candidate for 3B, Piscotty.
Doubt the team actually moves Marp across the diamond, but hey, offseason. This is the time to kick around weird ideas.
Played out the obvious internal solutions: hope Matt Adams is awesome again, platoon Moss/Piscotty, punt on Adams and platoon Moss/Piscotty.
And then they brought up an idea I hadn't considered: move Matt Carpenter to 1B.
The rationale included Carp's power surge to 1B levels, lousy arm costs the team some outs at 3B, good glove and mobility have potential to be a plus defender at 1B. (Author drew comparisons to Keith Hernandez; that's a bit generous, but Steve Garvey is another 1B of that era that came to mind)
Author framed this discussion as the move would be in reaction to bringing in an outsider to the left side, either a new 3B, or a new SS and slide Perslta over to 3B to hide his declining range. But they didn't bring up an internal candidate for 3B, Piscotty.
Doubt the team actually moves Marp across the diamond, but hey, offseason. This is the time to kick around weird ideas.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
The Cardinals would never stoop to something as dumb as asking a key player to change positions.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
There isn't a whole lot available via FA on the left side of the diamond, 1B seems like an easier problem to solve.
I think STL has to let their pursuit of Heyward inform what they do at 1B. If he gets away, that probably means Piscotty makes the most sense playing in the OF almost all of the time, which probably means you need more help at 1B, possibly someone to compliment Moss. If they get him back, signing someone else isn't nearly as imperative. Has Matt Adams been mentioned as a non-tender candidate at all? He's not going to kill them financially, but at this point it seems like he might just be taking up space.
Garcia for that much is a no-brainer.
Interesting that STL hasn't really aggressively bumped up their payroll much this decade, it's only about 10% higher than it was 5 years ago. That might be akin to the old Milton Berle anecdote of taking out just enough to beat you, but $120mm might not do the trick next year, obviously.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
No other big decisions about position players will be made until Heyward decides who gets to make him a gajillionaire. Absolutely. That affects playing time and positions for about 5-6 guys.
I think they give Adams one more season to see if he can get healthy and hit some home runs. He's cheap enough to be a lefty bat off the bench if Moss proves worthy of being the starting 1B next spring. Also, Holliday only has one more year of guaranteed money (team option for 2017), and John Jay is finally a FA and likely gone next winter, so a bunch of PAs will open up in the outfield in a year even if Heyward re-signs. So if Piscotty can play the outfield, there's going to be opportunities for him there. Gotta assume Holliday has at least one DL stint next year, too.
This crop of young starting pitching has helped the team control costs a ton. In addition to the young guys currently in the rotation, Shelby Miller and Joe Kelly were cheap starters over the last couple years, too. And Lackey agreeing to pay for 500K was just nuts. (IIRC with incentives ended up making about $2MM, but still an unreal deal). Wainwright gave the team a bit of a hometown discount. Yadi and Peralta have front-loaded deals and are getting cheaper to employ.
There's a big 2013 rookie class that will all get expensive together: Wacha, Martinez, Wong, Siegrist, and Maness. Rosenthal starts making real money next year. But there's also some sneaky money coming off the books (Choate and Belisle were $6.5MM combined in 2015), and Holliday and Jay presumably free up about $25MM next winter.
I think they give Adams one more season to see if he can get healthy and hit some home runs. He's cheap enough to be a lefty bat off the bench if Moss proves worthy of being the starting 1B next spring. Also, Holliday only has one more year of guaranteed money (team option for 2017), and John Jay is finally a FA and likely gone next winter, so a bunch of PAs will open up in the outfield in a year even if Heyward re-signs. So if Piscotty can play the outfield, there's going to be opportunities for him there. Gotta assume Holliday has at least one DL stint next year, too.
This crop of young starting pitching has helped the team control costs a ton. In addition to the young guys currently in the rotation, Shelby Miller and Joe Kelly were cheap starters over the last couple years, too. And Lackey agreeing to pay for 500K was just nuts. (IIRC with incentives ended up making about $2MM, but still an unreal deal). Wainwright gave the team a bit of a hometown discount. Yadi and Peralta have front-loaded deals and are getting cheaper to employ.
There's a big 2013 rookie class that will all get expensive together: Wacha, Martinez, Wong, Siegrist, and Maness. Rosenthal starts making real money next year. But there's also some sneaky money coming off the books (Choate and Belisle were $6.5MM combined in 2015), and Holliday and Jay presumably free up about $25MM next winter.
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Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I don't know what's crazier, that a) Lackey agreed to that kind of deal in the first place, b) Boston traded him and that deal for an obviously lousy return, or c) Lackey didn't threaten to hold out/retire if he couldn't negotiate some sort of reasonable extension instead of playing for rookie money. Either way, that was a brilliant piece of business by STL. In a year and a half they got about 4 WAR for, what, about $8mm total?
STL's apparently been scouting Park, too, but I suppose that could be said of half of baseball.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
MLB Trade Rumors predicts Heyward to Yankees, Lackey to Cubs, and Cardinals blow their FA wad on a six-year deal for Chris Davis.
I suppose that would clear up who plays 1B next season, and would also put Piscotty in the outfield. Still, seems off-brand to go outside the organization to give a guy $144MM.
I suppose that would clear up who plays 1B next season, and would also put Piscotty in the outfield. Still, seems off-brand to go outside the organization to give a guy $144MM.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
STL also seem pretty contact-y as an organization, Davis is not that.
Eephus
Footballguy
Brady Marino
Footballguy
I think they'd rather give that much money to the devil they know (Heyward) than the one they don't (Davis).Bruce Dickinson said:
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Yep. Consistent with the franchise under DeWitt. Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday... all traded for first before signing them for huge money. And like GPJ said, Davis doesn't seem to be a great fit with organization philosophy while Heyward is.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Well, crud. No Lance Lynn next year. His turn for Tommy John surgery.
I guess all SP elbows are just ticking time bombs, huh?
Probably too much to expect Lackey to accept that QO now, huh?
I guess all SP elbows are just ticking time bombs, huh?
Probably too much to expect Lackey to accept that QO now, huh?
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Apparently the Cardinals are serious about Chris Davis. They like that he can play some 3B. They wouldn't play him there full-time, but he would be an option if they want to rest Matt Carpenter more next season.
Would much rather the team spend the money on Heyward, but all this chattering with high-priced free agents is presenting the image they are willing to increase payroll. Good. No need to store all the upcoming extra local TV money under the mattress when it could be spent on corner outfielders and first basemen.
Would much rather the team spend the money on Heyward, but all this chattering with high-priced free agents is presenting the image they are willing to increase payroll. Good. No need to store all the upcoming extra local TV money under the mattress when it could be spent on corner outfielders and first basemen.
