*Official 2020 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Humanity will never recover from the most horrible event to happen in the last 100 years: Doug Pederson pla (3 Viewers)

[Pip's Invitation]

I still think they took Hurts because they don’t believe — or have serious doubts that  — Wentz is their guy long term. Whether it’s because they think his body won’t hold up, he’s likely to retire early to devote the rest of his life to doing good works with his money, or he’s uncoachable and won’t improve his flaws. If they took Hurts just because they thought he was BPA and didn’t think about the implications for Wentz or the team, then we’ve got much bigger problems than a QB controversy.

 

[Insein]

I still think they took Hurts because they don’t believe — or have serious doubts that  — Wentz is their guy long term. Whether it’s because they think his body won’t hold up, he’s likely to retire early to devote the rest of his life to doing good works with his money, or he’s uncoachable and won’t improve his flaws. If they took Hurts just because they thought he was BPA and didn’t think about the implications for Wentz or the team, then we’ve got much bigger problems than a QB controversy.

That was the one thing I speculated on in the spring. If Wentz hinted that he might pull a Luck in a year or two due to injury. The poor play totally ruined our chance of finding that out though. 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I still think they took Hurts because they don’t believe — or have serious doubts that  — Wentz is their guy long term. Whether it’s because they think his body won’t hold up, he’s likely to retire early to devote the rest of his life to doing good works with his money, or he’s uncoachable and won’t improve his flaws. If they took Hurts just because they thought he was BPA and didn’t think about the implications for Wentz or the team, then we’ve got much bigger problems than a QB controversy.

They thought after they gave him 140 million that would outweigh picking a QB so early. 

They kept Foles around too. Drafted Thorson with Wentz and Foles on the team as well. Gave Sudfield 3 million for literally nothing. 

Back up QB’s are something Howie prioritizes. I think the QB factory comment was real. He’s been around long enough. If it were something else he would have went with the “Jalen was our BPA blah blah blah”. 

 

[jasvic]

Assuming no miracle division win, I'm thinking Howie and Wentz stays and the coaching staff is flushed and they bring in new staff that will cater to Wentz. Not saying it should happen, but I think this is what will happen.

 

[Insein]

Assuming no miracle division win, I'm thinking Howie and Wentz stays and the coaching staff is flushed and they bring in new staff that will cater to Wentz. Not saying it should happen, but I think this is what will happen.

If Hurts puts in 2 more solid games, I think it's at least a competition next year. 

 

[Insein]

Things we know for certain. 

Howie is staying on as GM. Right or wrong we know Lurie is not going to part with him. 

Doug is probably 75-80% coming back. 3 years removed from a super bowl in a year with no off season. He should get a pass. His staff though is going to see some changes. 

Carson will be back unless someone offers a first plus in a trade. The money is too great to get rid of him. They have to salvage him somehow even if it's as a backup. 

Hurts will be given a chance to take the job. Both with the remaining two games and his play in the off-season. If he wins it in camp, Hurts will start next season regardless of Carson's salary. 

 

[babydemon90]

They thought after they gave him 140 million that would outweigh picking a QB so early. 

They kept Foles around too. Drafted Thorson with Wentz and Foles on the team as well. Gave Sudfield 3 million for literally nothing. 

Back up QB’s are something Howie prioritizes. I think the QB factory comment was real. He’s been around long enough. If it were something else he would have went with the “Jalen was our BPA blah blah blah”. 

Yea, it's amazing how much better that pick and our outlook would be if they just had let Wentz play out his 5th year rookie year instead of trying to be smart and paying him quickly.

 

[babydemon90]

If they bite the bullet, dump older expensive players this offseason - we can be clear for a run in 2022. 2021 will suck, but it can be with young, hopefully improving players. Then a lot of cap space will be had the following year, for a new run.

 

[jasvic]

If Hurts puts in 2 more solid games, I think it's at least a competition next year. 

If it plays out like I'm thinking, it will be a competition for show, but unless Wentz craps the bed completely in the pre-season, he'll be the starter. Or try and trade Hurts in the offseason if he continues playing well. They'll try and sell the fans on a new coaching staff being the answer. This is my terrible prediction for 2021.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Yea, it's amazing how much better that pick and our outlook would be if they just had let Wentz play out his 5th year rookie year instead of trying to be smart and paying him quickly.

Yep. There was no need to extend him if they had worries. Tag x2 if needed and go from there. Given his injury history I think MANY would be on board with this  

We all seem to be looking for a good story. It reads as simple as the GM who sucks at drafting continued to suck and crushed our depth. He was once great at contracts but gave away some very bad ones. This is the result of these bad actions. 

 

[modogg]

So listening to a bunch of stuff there is still a lot of people pushing that Doug must go. For me, i have kind of felt the same way about it, and i think it can be compared to the Brett Brown situation with the 6'ers. If you are going to let a coach go, you need to also consider what replacement coaches are viable. Looking at the landscape, i don't know if there are a ton of coaches out there that are significantly better than Doug.

I would say every year there are roughly 3-5 head coaching opportunities available (totally off the top of my head, could be more or less). There are always a coaching hire somewhat out of the blue, and you have to think there is probably 2-3 college coaching candidates who could be in the running, but outside of Bienemy I am not sure who else stands out as a great candidate. Have to think this year, you have a lot of teams at and around 4 wins, so there may be more then the usual coaching jobs available. 

You also need a coach that the front office is totally in on, if that is the case that the front office isn't changed. Will be a fun off-season, but i don't know if we will see tons of changes that most of us felt were coming a month ago, if the Eagles continue to look so competitive the last 2 games of the season

 

[BassNBrew]

It could be worse Eagles fans...trip down memory lane for the old timers.

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/2/2/10877232/eagles-oj-simpson-snowballs-santa-claus-murder-trail-philadelphia-nfl-draft

Props to @Vegas Trip who posted this in the Jets thread.

 

[Vegas Trip]

It could be worse Eagles fans...trip down memory lane for the old timers.

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/2/2/10877232/eagles-oj-simpson-snowballs-santa-claus-murder-trail-philadelphia-nfl-draft

Props to @Vegas Trip who posted this in the Jets thread.

First thing I thought of after their win (and knocking me out of my survivor pool). 

Just hope we're not kicking ourselves over that Saints win on draft night, we could have been sitting at #4 now.

Tankathon

 

[Insein]

First thing I thought of after their win (and knocking me out of my survivor pool). 

Just hope we're not kicking ourselves over that Saints win on draft night, we could have been sitting at #4 now.

Tankathon

I'm not going to be sad if we lose to Dallas and Washington in these last 2. I'm not rooting for it, but it increases our odds of getting an impact player.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

It’s the coach. Do you think it’s odd that the offense has looked like crap in the second half of each game? Hurts will only be “new” for so much longer. 

I see the same playcalling creeping back in. Slow start at the beginning of both halves. Hurts improvising is helping to avoid sacks but they're starting to get home. Let's see what they do against Dallas next week. Dallas Defense looking better last 3 weeks or so. 

Hurts was like 50% passing second half for 100yds and had 13 carries first half finished with 17. 

Hurts:

1st Half
24-39-61.5%-306-4-0 7.8ypa 120.3rtg 
11-98-0 8.9ypc
1 fumble (0 lost)
18.5 PPG

2nd Half
17-35-48.6%-199-0-0 5.7ypa 66.3rtg 
18-73-1 4.1ypc
3 fumble (1 lost)
6.5 PPG

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Presser notes:

-Pederson said sacks weren't all on offensive line. Said J. Hurts needs to know on the 3-step drop, the ball must get out of his hand. The protection scheme is designed for quick timing.

-When Doug Pederson was asked how much Jeffrey Lurie and Howie Roseman have in decision on whether QB Jalen Hurts starts. Pederson response..”none”.

-The question Doug Pederson seemed to grapple with the most in his presser was whether this season's final four games can tell him who Jalen Hurts is. He said it can give you "a good idea," mixed with college film, but that it's "a little bit of a small sample size overall."

-Doug Pederson says it shouldn't be viewed as "Carson vs. Jalen"

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Jordan Mailata is the 5th highest graded OT in week 15.

He has been among top 5 OT in 3 of the last 4 weeks.

 

[DJackson10]

Trade up to draft the guy who will have the ball in his hands and run the offense.  Trade him and he suddenly looks good.

Fultz 2.0.  Ugh.

Wentz overall talent is better then Fultz and did a few things well. I always questioned how good Fultz was. College team got a lot better after he left and most east coast guys don't go west like that to inferior colleges. Scouts were always questioning Fultz though 

 

[DJackson10]

Things we know for certain. 

Howie is staying on as GM. Right or wrong we know Lurie is not going to part with him. 

Doug is probably 75-80% coming back. 3 years removed from a super bowl in a year with no off season. He should get a pass. His staff though is going to see some changes. 

Carson will be back unless someone offers a first plus in a trade. The money is too great to get rid of him. They have to salvage him somehow even if it's as a backup. 

Hurts will be given a chance to take the job. Both with the remaining two games and his play in the off-season. If he wins it in camp, Hurts will start next season regardless of Carson's salary. 

I see Howie back only because Lurie trust him enough to get out of the whole of the cap he dung himself into. Then with some cap space replaces him with a better GM who has more roster flexibility. 

 

[DJackson10]

So listening to a bunch of stuff there is still a lot of people pushing that Doug must go. For me, i have kind of felt the same way about it, and i think it can be compared to the Brett Brown situation with the 6'ers. If you are going to let a coach go, you need to also consider what replacement coaches are viable. Looking at the landscape, i don't know if there are a ton of coaches out there that are significantly better than Doug.

I would say every year there are roughly 3-5 head coaching opportunities available (totally off the top of my head, could be more or less). There are always a coaching hire somewhat out of the blue, and you have to think there is probably 2-3 college coaching candidates who could be in the running, but outside of Bienemy I am not sure who else stands out as a great candidate. Have to think this year, you have a lot of teams at and around 4 wins, so there may be more then the usual coaching jobs available. 

You also need a coach that the front office is totally in on, if that is the case that the front office isn't changed. Will be a fun off-season, but i don't know if we will see tons of changes that most of us felt were coming a month ago, if the Eagles continue to look so competitive the last 2 games of the season

This is where I really struggled with friends of mine when talking about the Sixers. They'd say fire Brown but couldn't name someone better to replace him with. The names they said were really unrealistic. Same with the Phillies. A lot got their wish with Girardi but talking to my Aunt's brother who's an avid Yankees fan from cradle to grave among other Yankee fans said Joe was just AVG and you won't get much different from Joe then Gabe. Team won a lot in spite of him do to the Allstars in the line up. When he couldn't field his Allstar line up things went south on him. A lot of them said what happened this offseason fired the GM and Team President bring in better people. Kapler did pretty well in SF this past season too. 

Fans and media love to do the simple thing and think just firing a coach solves everything. It doesn't. Sometimes its a mixture of FO people and coaches, sometimes FO people and occasional really bad run clubs is because of the owner. Ask any soccer fan of Newcastle or Crystal palace on ownership. Ask Washington Football team or the Jets, etc. Not the manager coach or GM/tech director for them. It's ownership.

Firing the coach is just the simple debate answer because then they don't have to debate as much or fact find for GM/Ownership. Easy scapegoat just like the QB is

 

[DJackson10]

I'm not going to be sad if we lose to Dallas and Washington in these last 2. I'm not rooting for it, but it increases our odds of getting an impact player.

Yeah if Anything I want Dal ahead of us in the standing. Bias says please draft Kyle Pitts out of Florida if Smith and Chase are gone by our pick. He's a Philly guy too but also Dal will be looking for a TE. It wouldn't be a reach a Pitts is a match up nightmare. probably the best TE coming out since Kelce 

 

[DJackson10]

Hurts:

1st Half
24-39-61.5%-306-4-0 7.8ypa 120.3rtg 
11-98-0 8.9ypc
1 fumble (0 lost)
18.5 PPG

2nd Half
17-35-48.6%-199-0-0 5.7ypa 66.3rtg 
18-73-1 4.1ypc
3 fumble (1 lost)
6.5 PPG

Is that both games he's played in this year splits? 

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Is that both games he's played in this year splits? 

Yes, both started games. 

 

[Insein]

Yeah if Anything I want Dal ahead of us in the standing. Bias says please draft Kyle Pitts out of Florida if Smith and Chase are gone by our pick. He's a Philly guy too but also Dal will be looking for a TE. It wouldn't be a reach a Pitts is a match up nightmare. probably the best TE coming out since Kelce 

I think any talent would be great and adding another stud offensive weapon is always good but this town will flip if we draft a TE in the first when we have Goedert and so many other needs.

 

[Ash]

I still think they took Hurts because they don’t believe — or have serious doubts that  — Wentz is their guy long term. Whether it’s because they think his body won’t hold up, he’s likely to retire early to devote the rest of his life to doing good works with his money, or he’s uncoachable and won’t improve his flaws. If they took Hurts just because they thought he was BPA and didn’t think about the implications for Wentz or the team, then we’ve got much bigger problems than a QB controversy.

The “look how smart I am” thing seems to factor into Howie’s decision making a lot. Examples are the QB factory nonsense, trading up over the Texans and Cowboys to pick Dillard and Goedert.  I find it unbelievable they decided Wentz wasn’t the long term QB in between giving him a $128m extension and drafting Hurts.

Therefore it has to be the second thing.

 

[Insein]

The “look how smart I am” thing seems to factor into Howie’s decision making a lot. Examples are the QB factory nonsense, trading up over the Texans and Cowboys to pick Dillard and Goedert.  I find it unbelievable they decided Wentz wasn’t the long term QB in between giving him a $128m extension and drafting Hurts.

Therefore it has to be the second thing.

I do think it's possible. Unlikely but possible that the concussion from the cheapshot sobered Lurie and Howie to the possibility that Wentz will get hurt again at some point. So while the deal was team friendly for a rising QB that showed all the signs of ascending to top 10 status, the ending in his first playoff game had to sit with them for those 2+ hours of watching Josh Mccown hobble around feebly during a winnable game. 

They just didn't factor in the psychological damage they would do by arbitrarily deciding to take a backup/replacement instead of a playmaker for their QB. He's played the good soldier (Carson that is) but that has to wear on anyone. 

 

[Deamon]

I know Howie mentioned the QB Factory as if the 'goal' was to trade Hurts in the future.

But I do wonder if he would be willing to do this if  Hurts looks great rest of the year.  Foles was no big deal as he struggled when he left, but if Howie trades away Hurts for a 1st, and Carson struggles again, that's going to be a job-ending type of mistake.

 

[Ash]

I do think it's possible. Unlikely but possible that the concussion from the cheapshot sobered Lurie and Howie to the possibility that Wentz will get hurt again at some point. So while the deal was team friendly for a rising QB that showed all the signs of ascending to top 10 status, the ending in his first playoff game had to sit with them for those 2+ hours of watching Josh Mccown hobble around feebly during a winnable game. 

They just didn't factor in the psychological damage they would do by arbitrarily deciding to take a backup/replacement instead of a playmaker for their QB. He's played the good soldier (Carson that is) but that has to wear on anyone. 

Only one of Wentz injuries (the back) seems like the kind of thing that could linger long term and the concussion could literally happen to anyone on a similar play.

I didn’t expect the Hurts pick to impact him mentally, but maybe the weight of all the Foles love everyone had for 2 years and some public push to keep Nick, the statue etc., then finally getting past that only to recreate the situation created a lot of pressure for him.

It fits in a way I think.  He started the season pushing too hard for big plays, the INTs, sacks and fumbles kept happening and it just seemed to snowball and he lost all confidence.

 

[Ash]

I know Howie mentioned the QB Factory as if the 'goal' was to trade Hurts in the future.

But I do wonder if he would be willing to do this if  Hurts looks great rest of the year.  Foles was no big deal as he struggled when he left, but if Howie trades away Hurts for a 1st, and Carson struggles again, that's going to be a job-ending type of mistake.

If he trades away Carson and he goes back to Top 10 level performance and Hurts is just meh, then same thing.  He’s made this mess for himself.  

 

[Insein]

Only one of Wentz injuries (the back) seems like the kind of thing that could linger long term and the concussion could literally happen to anyone on a similar play.

I didn’t expect the Hurts pick to impact him mentally, but maybe the weight of all the Foles love everyone had for 2 years and some public push to keep Nick, the statue etc., then finally getting past that only to recreate the situation created a lot of pressure for him.

It fits in a way I think.  He started the season pushing too hard for big plays, the INTs, sacks and fumbles kept happening and it just seemed to snowball and he lost all confidence.

Especially when he hasn't been know for INTs his whole career. He's had fumbles but rarely threw INTs. 

 

[Insein]

If he trades away Carson and he goes back to Top 10 level performance and Hurts is just meh, then same thing.  He’s made this mess for himself.  

That's the biggest reason why he won't trade either unless it's a ridiculous offer. 

 

[babydemon90]

Best case seems to be to get high enough to draft JaMarr Chase.

 

[Insein]

Best case seems to be to get high enough to draft JaMarr Chase.

Literally could take anyone but a QB. Some good OL in there and a stud LB and CB there too. Also willing to trade back (but stay in the top 10) to get an extra second or late first. We have a lot of holes. 

 

[Deamon]

If he trades away Carson and he goes back to Top 10 level performance and Hurts is just meh, then same thing.  He’s made this mess for himself.  

That's the biggest reason why he won't trade either unless it's a ridiculous offer. 

Right... but doesn't this go exactly against what he said?  It seems like exactly what Howie wanted was Hurts having a higher than late-2nd trade value and shipping him out for value. 

But based on the thought that Howie really wants to show how smart he is, and seems maybe afraid of criticism, he's now in a position where he's got Jalen's trade value high, but he will be absolutely blasted if he trades him away and Carson still struggles.

Howie you got what you wanted, Jalen will have a market now.  What are you going to do?

 

[Ash]

Right... but doesn't this go exactly against what he said?  It seems like exactly what Howie wanted was Hurts having a higher than late-2nd trade value and shipping him out for value. 

But based on the thought that Howie really wants to show how smart he is, and seems maybe afraid of criticism, he's now in a position where he's got Jalen's trade value high, but he will be absolutely blasted if he trades him away and Carson still struggles.

Howie you got what you wanted, Jalen will have a market now.  What are you going to do?

But how high is Hurts trade value really?  If he plays at a similar level the last two games, can you really see anyone giving up a #1?  Not me.  You could get a #2, but then what was the point?  If that truly was the rationale for the pick it makes no sense, the pick was two high to expect you can increase it’s value.

 

[jasvic]

But how high is Hurts trade value really?  If he plays at a similar level the last two games, can you really see anyone giving up a #1?  Not me.  You could get a #2, but then what was the point?  If that truly was the rationale for the pick it makes no sense, the pick was two high to expect you can increase it’s value.

Pure hypothetical since the Eagles wouldn't do it, but I could see a team like Washington trading a first. Of course assuming they win the division and have no chance at a QB in the draft and Hurts impresses these final 2 games. Hell, AJ Feeley got a 2 for playing mediocre in a few games. Never underestimate how QB needy some teams are.

 

[need2know]

Best case seems to be to get high enough to draft JaMarr Chase.

You mean smith

 

[Ash]

Pure hypothetical since the Eagles wouldn't do it, but I could see a team like Washington trading a first. Of course assuming they win the division and have no chance at a QB in the draft and Hurts impresses these final 2 games. Hell, AJ Feeley got a 2 for playing mediocre in a few games. Never underestimate how QB needy some teams are.

Feeley, Rob Johnson, Kevin Kolb, McNabb, there were so many of these that didn't work out, I just don't see it happening these days, let alone within a division.

 

[JetMaxx]

Howie made a fantastic pick, Wentz is gone. $128M hit will hurt but a cheap QB for 3 years that’s not fragile will pay dividends 

 

[G-King]

Yeah if Anything I want Dal ahead of us in the standing. Bias says please draft Kyle Pitts out of Florida if Smith and Chase are gone by our pick. He's a Philly guy too but also Dal will be looking for a TE. It wouldn't be a reach a Pitts is a match up nightmare. probably the best TE coming out since Kelce 

If Dallas blows their first pick on a TE, then they are idiots. Don’t see that ever happening. Let Philly have Pitts, it fits their scheme but also pushes a player Dallas needs. Dallas don’t need a TE. Especially in the first round.

 

[need2know]

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/10-completely-insane-jalen-hurts-stats

 

[Insein]

Bengals win could help us (if they win one more).

 

[Deamon]

If Hurts does stay our starter, we should get rid of Doug and try to get Greg Roman to come run our offense.

 

[jasvic]

Feeley, Rob Johnson, Kevin Kolb, McNabb, there were so many of these that didn't work out, I just don't see it happening these days, let alone within a division.

Like I said, the Eagles wouldn't do it. My point being there are teams that will feel they are a QB away that can't get one in the draft. Hell, just a few years ago Bradford got a 1st and everyone knew what he was at the time. There was no potential there.

 

[DJackson10]

I think any talent would be great and adding another stud offensive weapon is always good but this town will flip if we draft a TE in the first when we have Goedert and so many other needs.

I agree but if we keep Doug it fits the offense and the 12 personal they run. You need 2 TE's and Pitts is more like a WR then TE. We've also talked about if the team really wants to pay Goedert in his prime while we are not there yet again. I want the best offensive talents available and if Chase and Smith are both gone You take Pitts and don't look back. 

 

[Insein]

I agree but if we keep Doug it fits the offense and the 12 personal they run. You need 2 TE's and Pitts is more like a WR then TE. We've also talked about if the team really wants to pay Goedert in his prime while we are not there yet again. I want the best offensive talents available and if Chase and Smith are both gone You take Pitts and don't look back. 

We need defensive playmakers though. Been too long. Get the best CB to put opposite of Slay and then we're talking. Get Micah Parsons (which they'd never do) and we get a wrecking machine. Just need someone on defense that every one nationally is just like "Man that guy can play and makes a huge difference."

 

[DJackson10]

I know Howie mentioned the QB Factory as if the 'goal' was to trade Hurts in the future.

But I do wonder if he would be willing to do this if  Hurts looks great rest of the year.  Foles was no big deal as he struggled when he left, but if Howie trades away Hurts for a 1st, and Carson struggles again, that's going to be a job-ending type of mistake.

Yeah but what if Hurts struggles too else where at the same time? If you get a first for Hurts you don't ask questions accept it as fast as you can before the other team decides to second guess. I mean I'm not that big on the guy to begin with so for me Hurts for a 1st is highway robbery. 

 

[DJackson10]

Literally could take anyone but a QB. Some good OL in there and a stud LB and CB there too. Also willing to trade back (but stay in the top 10) to get an extra second or late first. We have a lot of holes. 

I'd be willing to trade back stay in the top 10 as long as a few of the targets were still gonna be there. Say we are top 4 I might trade back to 7 at the most. 8th if the offer is just too good. We need to acquire picks anyway we can. What I don't want to do is get a ridiculous hall and drop out of the top 10 and miss out on one of these studs 

 

[DJackson10]

If Dallas blows their first pick on a TE, then they are idiots. Don’t see that ever happening. Let Philly have Pitts, it fits their scheme but also pushes a player Dallas needs. Dallas don’t need a TE. Especially in the first round.

Only reason I mentioned it was a few too early mock drafts had them in on Pitts. 

One of my customers who I talk to a Washington fan mentioned you guys were looking to trade Zeke. Any truth or rumblings about that? 

 

[DJackson10]

We need defensive playmakers though. Been too long. Get the best CB to put opposite of Slay and then we're talking. Get Micah Parsons (which they'd never do) and we get a wrecking machine. Just need someone on defense that every one nationally is just like "Man that guy can play and makes a huge difference."

True but not many jump out to me as a "we got to have him" player. Maybe because I haven't read or know enough on them focusing mostly offense. Seems Parsons a few times but he looks good but for me doesn't have that must have too him. Not sure what it is.