***official*** all things Microsoft Xbox One (1 Viewer)

[SlaX]

Not XBox One related, but Sony announced today that they are splitting the company between their entertainment and electronics divisions. This was an expected move back at the PS4 announcement.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

I don't think this stuff carries over. Sony said something about how they're hoping to develop some version of BC through Gaikai, but that won't be a launch feature and they didn't say anything about it being free.

So PSN accounts don't carry over or just games bought via PSN don't carry over?

Your PSN account will carry over, so you don't need to worry about re-registering your 1337sNiPaH420 handle before somebody else claims it. And your trophies carry over so no e-penis concerns. But no, your PSN games won't play on the PS4.

 

[Fennis]

Not XBox One related, but Sony announced today that they are splitting the company between their entertainment and electronics divisions. This was an expected move back at the PS4 announcement.

link?

 

[SlaX]

Not XBox One related, but Sony announced today that they are splitting the company between their entertainment and electronics divisions. This was an expected move back at the PS4 announcement.

link?

http://japandailypress.com/sony-to-take-entertainment-division-split-proposal-to-board-2229316

Reading this, it's not actually official. They are looking into the split.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Not XBox One related, but Sony announced today that they are splitting the company between their entertainment and electronics divisions. This was an expected move back at the PS4 announcement.

link?

Link

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

You may not have to purchase it separately, but I'm pretty sure the cost of it will be factored into their pricing.

As we've both pointed out I'm not their target demographic. I'm a guy who legally buys their products and plays their games. They don't get as much money out of me as they could, but I'm doing everything completely legal. Their moves are designed to squeeze more money out of people like me, and I understand that. However, that doesn't mean I have to like or accept it. If they decide to continue on their path I will not be a customer. I will probably be the guy buying all the suddenly cheap X-Box 360 games at Gamestop/Ebay.

So to summarize, you're upset that they're closing a loophole that allows you to legally be a customer of their business that loses their company money. You're certainly more than free to just stick with the 360 for the next 10 years and keep doing what you're doing, but I don't see how you can blame game companies for deciding that it's not in their best interest to fund another retailers profits at their expense.

The Playstation division has made $17 million in profit on $75 billion in revenue and takes a huge risk every time a new console generation flips over. That's not an investment that can continue the same way it has been.

Those figures can't be right.

Ack, $7.5 billion.

That's in 2012, when the PS3 hardware is selling at a profit and there is a large install base for software.

ETA: Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/191983/Sonys_first_profits_in_five_years_no_thanks_to_PlayStation.php

A ten percent profit margin seems pretty good to me.

Where are you getting 10% from?

Also, keep in mind this was one of the only years they turned a profit at all since 2005.

7.5/75 Unless you are saying it is .017/7.5

Yes, .017/7.5

 

[Fennis]

Not XBox One related, but Sony announced today that they are splitting the company between their entertainment and electronics divisions. This was an expected move back at the PS4 announcement.

link?

http://japandailypress.com/sony-to-take-entertainment-division-split-proposal-to-board-2229316

Reading this, it's not actually official. They are looking into the split.

thanks. I was aware it was being considered, I didn't think it happened already.

I know the market really likes the idea, but I think it will be really bad for both divisions.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Ah, we're agreed on that, then. I understand the reasons that full-on disc games from the PS3/360 won't carry over but it bugs me that the PSN/XBLA games won't.

I think phones, etc have given us the impression that buying digital stuff on a platform means you're buying it on that platform, not that device. I never even considered that PSN Arcade and XBLA games wouldn't carry over, I always thought it was assumed that they would. You would think these beefy machines would have the power to emulate at least a handful of these smaller arcade based games. I guess that's not the case.

I think your last assumption is incorrect though. Journey won't be available on the PS4 in any capacity unless it is explicitly ported to the PS4 via a whole new release. That is my understanding at least. It's not that your PSN purchases won't carry over. It's that the games themselves won't carry over at all.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Journey probably won't even be available for the PS4. It was written for the PS3 and would need a port to run on the PS4 at all.

 

[SlaX]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

 

[Worm]

I agree that it's bull#### if the licenses for downloaded games don't carry over. I think it's likely that a lot of those games become available at some point.

 

[LAUNCH]

Personally I am more concerned with my headset not working on the X1 than the old games. That could be a very important factor for me in which one I get (first).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

This would be cool, but in fairness games have never worked this way. I first played GTA3 on the PC. When I wanted to play it on the PS2, I had to buy the same game again, and it never really occurred to me that it would be otherwise.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

Yeah that's exactly what I was trying to refer to. The fact that that's not the case is nothing short of a scam as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

This would be cool, but in fairness games have never worked this way. I first played GTA3 on the PC. When I wanted to play it on the PS2, I had to buy the same game again, and it never really occurred to me that it would be otherwise.

The difference with that example is that there's no inter-connected network between PS2's and PC's like there will be between PS3/PS4 and 360/1 via the PSN and XBLA.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

This would be cool, but in fairness games have never worked this way. I first played GTA3 on the PC. When I wanted to play it on the PS2, I had to buy the same game again, and it never really occurred to me that it would be otherwise.

The difference with that example is that there's no inter-connected network between PS2's and PC's like there will be between PS3/PS4 and 360/1 via the PSN and XBLA.

True, but if the developer has to devote resources to re-coding Flower Journey to make it run on the PS4, why doesn't that justify charging consumers to re-buy the ported-over game?

 

[SlaX]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

This would be cool, but in fairness games have never worked this way. I first played GTA3 on the PC. When I wanted to play it on the PS2, I had to buy the same game again, and it never really occurred to me that it would be otherwise.

I know. It's more wishful thinking than anything. I've always wanted games to be available for all systems if you got it on one. Like if I got the new Call of Duty, I could play it on the XBox, Playstation or PC. Sort of like how some movies now seem to come with a BluRay, DVD and digital version of the movie. The only thing that came close to that was Portal 2. Buying the PS3 version of Portal 2 unlocked it on Steam as well, due to the Steam partnership. It seems that that partnership went nowhere, otherwise Valve wouldn't be looking into making a Steambox.

 

[SlaX]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

This would be cool, but in fairness games have never worked this way. I first played GTA3 on the PC. When I wanted to play it on the PS2, I had to buy the same game again, and it never really occurred to me that it would be otherwise.

The difference with that example is that there's no inter-connected network between PS2's and PC's like there will be between PS3/PS4 and 360/1 via the PSN and XBLA.

True, but if the developer has to devote resources to re-coding Flower Journey to make it run on the PS4, why doesn't that justify charging consumers to re-buy the ported-over game?

That's where being the Premium member or a XBox Live Gold member would be required. Assuming that there is a free option of either service next gen.

 

[thecatch]

I'd also hope that we can get a bit of a price reduction when games drop. I belive that they've always built in the resale aspect into the cost of the game. No resale should = lower cost for the consumer. We'll see.

I wouldn't count on that. Game prices haven't even come close to keeping up with inflation as it is. Games cost more than ever to make and are a far riskier investment than ever before, yet adjusted for the economy, they're as cheap as they've ever been. That's why I don't get why people are so gaga over used games. The behemoths are generally safe, but we see large and very good studios shutting down left and right because they made one below average game to follow up four great ones. Meanwhile on our end we get an absurdly cheap hobby relative to the amount of entertainment it provides, and we want to chop off a few more bucks by sending even less money the developer's way. We all save a negligible 5 bucks on a game and the development studio loses enough to sometimes put them in danger of shutting down shop.

The prices on PC versions of the same games on consoles drop very quickly. A lot of that is due to the digital distribution model that dominates PC gaming. Game developers can lower their price to $20 after 6 months and know they're getting the entire $20 while they make almost nothing on console games 6 months in due to console users buying used games.

So we're getting all the downsides of the PC distribution model without the upsidE?

We will get the upside. Eventually. In the meantime there will be growing pains.

Not sure where the competition is going to come from.

Where does the competition come from on PC? The answer is just simply the spectrum of available games. When sales for a game go down on steam, so does the price. And the sellers can better tell when this should happen because there is no used market and all sales are basically trackable. With the consoles moving towards this model, the dynamic game pricing should happen quicker. Again, eventually.

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Regarding BC.

I wonder if they won't be BC with the discs themselves but will (nearly) all be available as low cost purchases through Xbox Live/PSN.

On a related note, it's pretty ####ed how one's Xbox Live Arcade games don't carry over to the Xbox One even though you'll be carrying over your Xbox Live account. Though they've "made sure" our Xbox Live 'identity' is the same by carrying over Xbox Live Arcade achievements!

Any word on if Sony is doing the same by not letting PSN games that you bought for your PSN account to carry over?

You won't be able to carry over any games on either system. It's not a matter of what they want to do, the architecture is completely different. It's literally impossible. They'd have to include a specific chip in the system just to create a virtual console on the board to do that. You'd probably add another $100-200 per system to do that.

The thing is, with both the XB1 and PS4 using a similar architecture and one that is much more PC-like, porting should be much easier between platforms. So new games will take a lot less effort to develop. That's ultimately a good thing.

And to me, backwards compatibility only seems to matter if you're either jumping in after not having a previous console or you're moving from one platform to the other. If you already have a 360, why would you care that the XB1 isn't backwards compatible? Just keep your 360.

This makes no sense, I'm not talking about a physical disc here, I'm talking about downloadable PSN games that you bought that are tied to your account. I'm assuming a large number, if not all, of the games currently on PSN will still be on the PSN for the PS4, but maybe that's not a correct assumption? For example, how is it not a total money-grab that I'd have to buy Journey on my PSN account on my PS4 if I wanted to play it on there when I already bought Journey for the exact same PSN account on my PS3?

Even if the same game won't transfer over, I wish the license that you already own it did, so that if they do release the same game on the new system, you can simply download it because you already own it.

Like in your example, Journey won't transfer over from the PS3 to the PS4, but PSN has your account on file and can see that you already own Journey. If Journey becomes available on PSN for the PS4, you would simply download it.

Wishful thinking sure. But think of it as a feature of Playstation Network Premium that you won't have on the free PSN.

This would be cool, but in fairness games have never worked this way. I first played GTA3 on the PC. When I wanted to play it on the PS2, I had to buy the same game again, and it never really occurred to me that it would be otherwise.

The difference with that example is that there's no inter-connected network between PS2's and PC's like there will be between PS3/PS4 and 360/1 via the PSN and XBLA.

True, but if the developer has to devote resources to re-coding Flower Journey to make it run on the PS4, why doesn't that justify charging consumers to re-buy the ported-over game?

I suppose it's debatable, but I don't think it's justified that consumers should have to buy the same game twice to play it on the same PSN/XBLA account.

 

[Run It Up]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

 

[Slapdash]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

Valve is also a private company and doesn't have the pressures to build margins that MSFT/Sony will.

 

[SlaX]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

Valve is also a private company and doesn't have the pressures to build margins that MSFT/Sony will.

We gotta hope that Gabe Newell never gives in to the pressures of a buyout.

 

[thecatch]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

Yes but I suspect gamers would put up with other services if the games were more heavily discounted (I would as an occasional steam user). I don't see how similar price pressure could be brought in this area on the new consoles.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

Yes but I suspect gamers would put up with other services if the games were more heavily discounted (I would as an occasional steam user). I don't see how similar price pressure could be brought in this area on the new consoles.

Sony and Microsoft don't control the prices, do they? I think developers get to set their prices on XBL and PSN. And developers are certainly competing against each other.

 

[Sand]

I see Microsoft's strategy as simply being a three pronged money grab. First, bring in more money by forcing consumers of used games to pay Microsoft instead of Gamestop/eBay. While this sounds fair enough, their method of addressing this will create a monopoly, and I'm guessing their pricing structure will eventually be raised to extract maximum returns.

Eventually?

 

[belljr]

maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

 

[culdeus]

I see Microsoft's strategy as simply being a three pronged money grab. First, bring in more money by forcing consumers of used games to pay Microsoft instead of Gamestop/eBay. While this sounds fair enough, their method of addressing this will create a monopoly, and I'm guessing their pricing structure will eventually be raised to extract maximum returns.

Eventually?

This could eventually end up at the Supreme Court's level dealing with 2nd rights of digital goods, but it won't, and we all are going to get bent over for better or worse on this one.

 

[Statcruncher]

I see Microsoft's strategy as simply being a three pronged money grab. First, bring in more money by forcing consumers of used games to pay Microsoft instead of Gamestop/eBay. While this sounds fair enough, their method of addressing this will create a monopoly, and I'm guessing their pricing structure will eventually be raised to extract maximum returns.

Eventually?

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm guessing their end game plan is to completely eliminate discs and have strictly digital one time use downloads. Then it becomes easy for them as there won't be used games anymore. You want a game on a machine, that machine has to buy/download it.

I'm also skeptical that the "once a day" connection requirement won't eventually be raised to a mandatory full time connection to play. Or that down the line a subscription to XBL won't be mandatory to download the digital games.

 

[One]

Any word on if the PS4's online service stays free?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Sony and Microsoft don't control the prices, do they? I think developers get to set their prices on XBL and PSN. And developers are certainly competing against each other.

I think Sony/MS must have at least some control over it. MS intentionally keeps Games on Demand pricing high because they don't want to alienate the retailer stores while they still need them, so they must have some control.

maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

Uh, why?

 

[Spanky267]

Personally I am more concerned with my headset not working on the X1 than the old games. That could be a very important factor for me in which one I get (first).

Yes this will bug me immensely if it makes my headset obsolete for chat functions. I know alot of the FBGs that I game with on the 360 have invested plenty of dough in their headsets. Personally I dont take spending almost $200 on a gaming headset lightly. I specifically bought the one I have because it works with my 360 and PS3.

I would seriously consider upgrading from the 360 to the One, but this point might delay my adoption of their new console. I really like what I have seen of the new console and I am definitely a 360 guy after having been solidly in the Playstation camp. XBL is just superior to the current PS offering in my opinion. I also have grown to love the Xbox controller and it seems the controller on the One is just a refinement of the 360 controller.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Personally I am more concerned with my headset not working on the X1 than the old games. That could be a very important factor for me in which one I get (first).

Yes this will bug me immensely if it makes my headset obsolete for chat functions. I know alot of the FBGs that I game with on the 360 have invested plenty of dough in their headsets. Personally I dont take spending almost $200 on a gaming headset lightly. I specifically bought the one I have because it works with my 360 and PS3.

I would seriously consider upgrading from the 360 to the One, but this point might delay my adoption of their new console. I really like what I have seen of the new console and I am definitely a 360 guy after having been solidly in the Playstation camp. XBL is just superior to the current PS offering in my opinion. I also have grown to love the Xbox controller and it seems the controller on the One is just a refinement of the 360 controller.

Just got a tritton warhead at Xmas :( They are making it easier and easier to just stick to gaming on my laptop and not bother with next generation consoles.

 

[Worm]

I would bet heavily that there will be a cheap converter available. But they won't make any new headsets with the old setup. Everything new will be with the new connection.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Any word on if the PS4's online service stays free?

I don't believe there's been any official word on this. Having said that, it would be quite a turnaround for Sony to start charging for basic multiplayer access since that's been a Playstation selling point this whole generation. I'm a Plus subscriber so if they changed things it may or may not affect me personally, but charging for online would be a big mistake by Sony.

 

[Run It Up]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

Yes but I suspect gamers would put up with other services if the games were more heavily discounted (I would as an occasional steam user). I don't see how similar price pressure could be brought in this area on the new consoles.

They probably would, but since Steam offers the most competitive pricing and has such a large base already its almost impossible to compete unless its as a niche distributor like gog.com that digitally distributes very old PC games and actually patches them to work on new operating systems.It got to a point where EA was threatening Valve that they would stop allowing Valve to carry their games if they didn't stop reducing the prices of those games. To which Valve replied, great do what you want. Thus Origin was born and after a couple failed attempts at having Origin exclusive titles they crawled back to steam.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The above is a big part of the reason why I'm interested in Steambox. I need a lot more information to know if I would buy this instead of or in addition to a PS4, but I'm all ears for now.

 

[SlaX]

Steam has competition on the PC though, right? I don't know if there will be any price pressure on Sony/MS in the digital download area given their closed systems.

They have competition in the sense that it is of a sum higher than no competition. But to credit it with as any actual competition is laughable.Games for Windows live (Microsoft), Origin (EA) and UPlay (Ubisoft) are all competitor digital distribution services and all of them are garbage.Valve is from the top down is the best producers, developers and distributors of games.

Yes but I suspect gamers would put up with other services if the games were more heavily discounted (I would as an occasional steam user). I don't see how similar price pressure could be brought in this area on the new consoles.

They probably would, but since Steam offers the most competitive pricing and has such a large base already its almost impossible to compete unless its as a niche distributor like gog.com that digitally distributes very old PC games and actually patches them to work on new operating systems.It got to a point where EA was threatening Valve that they would stop allowing Valve to carry their games if they didn't stop reducing the prices of those games. To which Valve replied, great do what you want. Thus Origin was born and after a couple failed attempts at having Origin exclusive titles they crawled back to steam.

I don't think any of EA's new titles have been on Steam. At least not since Battlefield 3. Most of the older titles are still available there and I guess will remain there.

 

[Run It Up]

I don't think any of EA's new titles have been on Steam. At least not since Battlefield 3. Most of the older titles are still available there and I guess will remain there.

There are only a handful of Origin exclusives. Simcity, Mass Effect 3 and SWTOR (before becoming free to play), cant think of any others.Also, my god the Microsoft is killing me. Everytime I read "the Xbox One doesn't require you to always be connected it does require a connection" I just can't control my laughter.The Xbox one is always online, you just have to login in every 24 hours to access your stuff offline. How nice of them...

 

[Mario Kart]

MSFT is at a disadvantage with this. They are fighting two battles. One is against Sony to rule video games. The other is against Apple/Android to try to get Windows 8 and its future in place. MSFT is trying to create their own niche before those other two companies create it/expand on it.

Sony might be happy with the video game market because they are not going to win the complete entertainment market. Sony has Blu-Ray and, as of right now, people play by their rules but the Cloud is the future. Where is Sony when it comes to the Cloud?

Apple is trying to build a tv market but they have been slow to do so. Maybe they do not have the partnerships like MSFT does in order to speed this up. Is MSFT okay with Apple having the phone market if MSFT gets the tv market?

 

[cstu]

Where it gets tricky regarding used games is that the first XBOX the game is installed on will always be able to play the game, regardless of whether the disc is in the drive or not. Then you can give the disc to a friend (or sell it) and that person can play the game with the disc in the drive. So for every game that's sold two people can play it.

You misunderstood, you can't play off disk - EVERY game that you want to play on the X1 HAS to be installed. When you install it, you enter the product registration code and now that game is locked to your account, you could rip the game burn a million copies and hand em out and all you would be accomplishing is free production and distribution of physical copies of a game that other people still can't play unless they pay to have the game registered to their account. Used game industry goes out of business, the consumer suffers.Second fun reality about this is that the static storage for the X1 will be 500gb, until cloud storage is integrated (no mention of when that is happening) enjoy having to shuffle around game installations.

If you take the game to a friend's house who doesn't have the X1 online what is stopping you from installing the game using the registration code? In the interview he said that games would be playable offlline as long as you have the disc. I find this all very confusing.

 

[SlaX]

I don't think any of EA's new titles have been on Steam. At least not since Battlefield 3. Most of the older titles are still available there and I guess will remain there.

There are only a handful of Origin exclusives. Simcity, Mass Effect 3 and SWTOR (before becoming free to play), cant think of any others.Also, my god the Microsoft is killing me. Everytime I read "the Xbox One doesn't require you to always be connected it does require a connection" I just can't control my laughter.The Xbox one is always online, you just have to login in every 24 hours to access your stuff offline. How nice of them...

What I meant was that no new EA titles have been released on Steam. All of their PC titles are available on Origin only. The only thing that EA has released on Steam since Battlefield 3 is DLC for The Sims 3, a game that was already available on Steam. Also SWTOR didn't require Origin at launch. So I don't think it counts.

 

[cstu]

maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

I don't play online at all.

 

[SlaX]

maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

I don't play online at all.

Until I got my wireless adapter, my XBox 360 wasn't connected to live at all either. I would run a long ethernet cable into the living room every now and then to get updates and patches. And even after I got the wireless adapter and starting paying for the gold service, I rarely played online. The biggest stretches I played online were when CoD 4 and when CoD:MW2 came out. Not saying I didn't play other games, but those were the ones I played the most. The last time I played on XBox Live was after I bought Assassin's Creed: Revelations. I still love the multiplayer in AC, but I have those on my PC now. It's been over a year since I've played online, so I let my gold account lapse and I never plan on renewing. I have other devices that allow Netflix and Hulu on my TV, and I can browse the internet on my PC, laptop or Galaxy S III phone.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

I don't play online at all.

Until I got my wireless adapter, my XBox 360 wasn't connected to live at all either. I would run a long ethernet cable into the living room every now and then to get updates and patches. And even after I got the wireless adapter and starting paying for the gold service, I rarely played online. The biggest stretches I played online were when CoD 4 and when CoD:MW2 came out. Not saying I didn't play other games, but those were the ones I played the most. The last time I played on XBox Live was after I bought Assassin's Creed: Revelations. I still love the multiplayer in AC, but I have those on my PC now. It's been over a year since I've played online, so I let my gold account lapse and I never plan on renewing. I have other devices that allow Netflix and Hulu on my TV, and I can browse the internet on my PC, laptop or Galaxy S III phone.

A lot of the best games these days are sandbox/RPG types imo. I don't find it surprising in the least that many gamers don't play online much at all.

 

[Run It Up]

Where it gets tricky regarding used games is that the first XBOX the game is installed on will always be able to play the game, regardless of whether the disc is in the drive or not. Then you can give the disc to a friend (or sell it) and that person can play the game with the disc in the drive. So for every game that's sold two people can play it.

You misunderstood, you can't play off disk - EVERY game that you want to play on the X1 HAS to be installed. When you install it, you enter the product registration code and now that game is locked to your account, you could rip the game burn a million copies and hand em out and all you would be accomplishing is free production and distribution of physical copies of a game that other people still can't play unless they pay to have the game registered to their account. Used game industry goes out of business, the consumer suffers.Second fun reality about this is that the static storage for the X1 will be 500gb, until cloud storage is integrated (no mention of when that is happening) enjoy having to shuffle around game installations.

If you take the game to a friend's house who doesn't have the X1 online what is stopping you from installing the game using the registration code? In the interview he said that games would be playable offlline as long as you have the disc. I find this all very confusing.

The only way to play a game that you have registered to your account on someone elses X1 without buying it is to login to your xbox live account on their xbox and play it on your account on their xbox, but to do this you have to have a connection or you wont be able to access your account from their xbox.When you migrate your account to someone elses Xbox to play on your xbox again you have to migrate it back which will delete it from theirs.They could feasibly play your game offline for a 24 hour period if you migrated your account and disconnected from the internet shortly after .

 

[SlaX]

Time Kibitzer, on 25 May 2013 - 20:27, said:

SlaX, on 25 May 2013 - 20:04, said:

cstu, on 25 May 2013 - 19:05, said:

belljr, on 23 May 2013 - 17:39, said:maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

I don't play online at all.

Until I got my wireless adapter, my XBox 360 wasn't connected to live at all either. I would run a long ethernet cable into the living room every now and then to get updates and patches. And even after I got the wireless adapter and starting paying for the gold service, I rarely played online. The biggest stretches I played online were when CoD 4 and when CoD:MW2 came out. Not saying I didn't play other games, but those were the ones I played the most. The last time I played on XBox Live was after I bought Assassin's Creed: Revelations. I still love the multiplayer in AC, but I have those on my PC now. It's been over a year since I've played online, so I let my gold account lapse and I never plan on renewing. I have other devices that allow Netflix and Hulu on my TV, and I can browse the internet on my PC, laptop or Galaxy S III phone.

A lot of the best games these days are sandbox/RPG types imo. I don't find it surprising in the least that many gamers don't play online much at all.

I don't expect to be in the majority there. But I think there's a bigger group that play completely offline than most people think. I hate to think that there's gonna be a console released that will have a short shelf life. I can play an Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Playstation, etc today just like they were released yesterday. (Ok, some cartridges will require a lot of blowing and some battery packs may have died.) What happens when Microsoft decides to pull the plug on the servers that allow you to access your XBox One. I don't expect that to happen for at least a good 10-15 years. But it's sad to think that it's an inevitability. A lot of game servers already get shut down after one year. EA, 2K, I'm looking at you!

 

[jwb]

Time Kibitzer, on 25 May 2013 - 20:27, said:

SlaX, on 25 May 2013 - 20:04, said:

cstu, on 25 May 2013 - 19:05, said:

belljr, on 23 May 2013 - 17:39, said:maybe iam alone but i play many games without logging into xbox live,

I don't play online at all.

Until I got my wireless adapter, my XBox 360 wasn't connected to live at all either. I would run a long ethernet cable into the living room every now and then to get updates and patches. And even after I got the wireless adapter and starting paying for the gold service, I rarely played online. The biggest stretches I played online were when CoD 4 and when CoD:MW2 came out. Not saying I didn't play other games, but those were the ones I played the most. The last time I played on XBox Live was after I bought Assassin's Creed: Revelations. I still love the multiplayer in AC, but I have those on my PC now. It's been over a year since I've played online, so I let my gold account lapse and I never plan on renewing. I have other devices that allow Netflix and Hulu on my TV, and I can browse the internet on my PC, laptop or Galaxy S III phone.

A lot of the best games these days are sandbox/RPG types imo. I don't find it surprising in the least that many gamers don't play online much at all.

I don't expect to be in the majority there. But I think there's a bigger group that play completely offline than most people think.I hate to think that there's gonna be a console released that will have a short shelf life. I can play an Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Playstation, etc today just like they were released yesterday. (Ok, some cartridges will require a lot of blowing and some battery packs may have died.) What happens when Microsoft decides to pull the plug on the servers that allow you to access your XBox One. I don't expect that to happen for at least a good 10-15 years. But it's sad to think that it's an inevitability. A lot of game servers already get shut down after one year. EA, 2K, I'm looking at you!

Add me to that group. I like having the option to play online, and I'll play some Borderlands with my nephew once every other month, but I do 90% of my gaming single-player only.

 

[cstu]

Where it gets tricky regarding used games is that the first XBOX the game is installed on will always be able to play the game, regardless of whether the disc is in the drive or not. Then you can give the disc to a friend (or sell it) and that person can play the game with the disc in the drive. So for every game that's sold two people can play it.

You misunderstood, you can't play off disk - EVERY game that you want to play on the X1 HAS to be installed. When you install it, you enter the product registration code and now that game is locked to your account, you could rip the game burn a million copies and hand em out and all you would be accomplishing is free production and distribution of physical copies of a game that other people still can't play unless they pay to have the game registered to their account. Used game industry goes out of business, the consumer suffers.Second fun reality about this is that the static storage for the X1 will be 500gb, until cloud storage is integrated (no mention of when that is happening) enjoy having to shuffle around game installations.

If you take the game to a friend's house who doesn't have the X1 online what is stopping you from installing the game using the registration code? In the interview he said that games would be playable offlline as long as you have the disc. I find this all very confusing.

The only way to play a game that you have registered to your account on someone elses X1 without buying it is to login to your xbox live account on their xbox and play it on your account on their xbox, but to do this you have to have a connection or you wont be able to access your account from their xbox.When you migrate your account to someone elses Xbox to play on your xbox again you have to migrate it back which will delete it from theirs.They could feasibly play your game offline for a 24 hour period if you migrated your account and disconnected from the internet shortly after .

All I can say is that hackers are going to go nuts trying to hack this thing day one.