***official*** all things Microsoft Xbox One (2 Viewers)

[Sand]

Here's a good list that cuts through all the BS and lays out all the facts about the XB1.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-what-we-do-and-dont-know

Yikes. So the microphone is ALWAYS on?! No way does the XB1 ever end up in my bedroom...Wonder if that is the case for the camera as well? You know, the one that now has infrared?

Is the PS4 any different in this regard? I know the Eye ships with it.

I don't think the Eye is used to turn on the system. The microphone is always on so that it can listen for you to turn the unit on.

Is the Eye essential to the functioning of the device, or is that still unknown?

I have read people saying the Kinect will be.

I think I may have answered this in the previous post, but if the Eye is required, it hasn't been reported. The PS Eye and Move has not performed as well as the Kinect did.

Good to know. I find the idea of an always on mike and camera when the system is activated quite creepy.

Is everything ok, Dr. Chandra? There seems to be some unexpected sound and movement detected inside the room.

 

[SlaX]

Here's a good list that cuts through all the BS and lays out all the facts about the XB1.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-what-we-do-and-dont-know

Yikes. So the microphone is ALWAYS on?! No way does the XB1 ever end up in my bedroom...Wonder if that is the case for the camera as well? You know, the one that now has infrared?

Is the PS4 any different in this regard? I know the Eye ships with it.

I don't think the Eye is used to turn on the system. The microphone is always on so that it can listen for you to turn the unit on.

Is the Eye essential to the functioning of the device, or is that still unknown?

I have read people saying the Kinect will be.

I think I may have answered this in the previous post, but if the Eye is required, it hasn't been reported. The PS Eye and Move has not performed as well as the Kinect did.

Good to know. I find the idea of an always on mike and camera when the system is activated quite creepy.

Is everything ok, Dr. Chandra? There seems to be some unexpected sound and movement detected inside the room.

I can see the news now. Playstation Network hacked again. They didn't steal your personal data. But if you were doing anything private in front of your Playstation over the weekend, then maybe they did.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

If I was Sony I would want to go first at E3 and say...

1. No internet connection required, ever.

2. No mandatory multiplayer subscriptions, ever.

3. No camera required, ever.

4. The ability to resell/borrow or use features on game resells will be handled exclusively by the software publishers, just like today.

5. I would recreate these bullet points in a remake of the Apple 1984 Big Brother Ad and have these flash across the screen.

6. Playstation, we make systems and games for gamers. Game on M$.

No internet connection required, no mandatory bundling of the PS move, continued free online play, and the ability to play a game without downloading it to the PS4 hard drive would be HUGE. Hopefully Sony doesn't just follow Microsoft at every move to create a money-making duopoly of ####.

 

[cstu]

Where it gets tricky regarding used games is that the first XBOX the game is installed on will always be able to play the game, regardless of whether the disc is in the drive or not. Then you can give the disc to a friend (or sell it) and that person can play the game with the disc in the drive. So for every game that's sold two people can play it.

 

[cstu]

Wired: What’s going on with used games? What about borrowed games? There’s a lot of speculation today. Can you clear some of that up? For example, we have multiple Xboxes in my house and trade games all the time. If we have multiple Xbox One consoles, can we still do that?

Harrison: Absolutely, just like you can today. You take the disc, install “the bits” on every machine you have in your house from the same disc, and anybody in your household can play that game. You have exactly the same restrictions that you have today, as in only one of you can play that game at a time because you only have one disc. But anybody in that house… well, the Xbox Live account… it goes for both the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One, and any user inside that house.

Wired: So as another example, if I took my disc and went to a friend’s house, would I be able to play that game on his machine?

Harrison: Yes, you can. You can take your game around to your friend’s house just as you would today — that’s assuming you have a physical disc — and what we’re doing with the new Live technology is that… with the disc, it’s just a repository for “the bits”. You can put that disc into his drive, you can play the game while you’re there, and then you go home and take that disc with you. But actually, “the bits” are still on his drive. If your friend decides that he really likes to play that game, then he can go buy it instantly, and it doesn’t need to download again. It’s already there. Once he’s paid for it, it’s immediately there.

Wired: So the discs that will be sold will essentially be start-up discs, and then the game isn’t really connected to the disc anymore once it’s been installed?

Harrison: Once you put the disc into your machine, you never need it again. If you want to keep it, that’s great. You can do that. But you can also download the game. You don’t actually have to have a physical disc after that point, but you can then share that disc with your friends which is basically a great way of distributing the content to other people.

Also, let me turn this around the other way. A game can be completely on a disc, with no additional content downloaded. You install the game on your hard drive, and other than pinging for Achievements and other multiplayer connectivity, then that’s it. That’s the end of it. Each game is on a case-by-case basis. But, I think it is very likely, that because of the inherent connectivity designed into the platform, that developers would want to expand and extend an experience over time.

 

[TxBuckeye]

A whole lot of usless speculation going on up in here.

Case in point - LOL at people arguing over which system is more powerful when the specs aren't even official.

Carry on (fellow) nerds.

While both consoles make use of an eight-core AMD Jaguar processor — which is a big win for AMD — the PlayStation 4 features 1,152 GPU cores compared to the Xbox One’s 768 graphics cores. Sony’s new console drives 1.84 TFLOPS as a result, compared to the new Xbox’s peak shader throughput of 1.23 TFLOPS.

The PlayStation 4 also has the edge when it comes to system memory, featuring 8GB of 5500MHz GDDR5 memory compared to the Xbox One’s 8GB of 2133MHz DDR3 RAM. Embedded memory and embedded memory bandwidth for the Xbox One are still unknown.

What does all this mean? In terms of raw gaming power, Sony’s PlayStation 4 is the clear winner.

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-vs-playstation-4-ps4-wins-specs-151527778.html

 

[belljr]

Wired: What’s going on with used games? What about borrowed games? There’s a lot of speculation today. Can you clear some of that up? For example, we have multiple Xboxes in my house and trade games all the time. If we have multiple Xbox One consoles, can we still do that?

Harrison: Absolutely, just like you can today. You take the disc, install “the bits” on every machine you have in your house from the same disc, and anybody in your household can play that game. You have exactly the same restrictions that you have today, as in only one of you can play that game at a time because you only have one disc. But anybody in that house… well, the Xbox Live account… it goes for both the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One, and any user inside that house.

Wired: So as another example, if I took my disc and went to a friend’s house, would I be able to play that game on his machine?

Harrison: Yes, you can. You can take your game around to your friend’s house just as you would today — that’s assuming you have a physical disc — and what we’re doing with the new Live technology is that… with the disc, it’s just a repository for “the bits”. You can put that disc into his drive, you can play the game while you’re there, and then you go home and take that disc with you. But actually, “the bits” are still on his drive. If your friend decides that he really likes to play that game, then he can go buy it instantly, and it doesn’t need to download again. It’s already there. Once he’s paid for it, it’s immediately there.

Wired: So the discs that will be sold will essentially be start-up discs, and then the game isn’t really connected to the disc anymore once it’s been installed?

Harrison: Once you put the disc into your machine, you never need it again. If you want to keep it, that’s great. You can do that. But you can also download the game. You don’t actually have to have a physical disc after that point, but you can then share that disc with your friends which is basically a great way of distributing the content to other people.

Also, let me turn this around the other way. A game can be completely on a disc, with no additional content downloaded. You install the game on your hard drive, and other than pinging for Achievements and other multiplayer connectivity, then that’s it. That’s the end of it. Each game is on a case-by-case basis. But, I think it is very likely, that because of the inherent connectivity designed into the platform, that developers would want to expand and extend an experience over time.

Clears it up a little, but it's still not like today. I can play my games without logging onto Xboxlive and save data, just don't get achievements.

If I go to my friends house I don't need to have a live account attached to it to play agame. So that has changed and I don't know how easy the new xbox will be to create accounts on

 

[SlaX]

Wired: What’s going on with used games? What about borrowed games? There’s a lot of speculation today. Can you clear some of that up? For example, we have multiple Xboxes in my house and trade games all the time. If we have multiple Xbox One consoles, can we still do that?

Harrison: Absolutely, just like you can today. You take the disc, install “the bits” on every machine you have in your house from the same disc, and anybody in your household can play that game. You have exactly the same restrictions that you have today, as in only one of you can play that game at a time because you only have one disc. But anybody in that house… well, the Xbox Live account… it goes for both the Xbox 360 and the Xbox One, and any user inside that house.

Wired: So as another example, if I took my disc and went to a friend’s house, would I be able to play that game on his machine?

Harrison: Yes, you can. You can take your game around to your friend’s house just as you would today — that’s assuming you have a physical disc — and what we’re doing with the new Live technology is that… with the disc, it’s just a repository for “the bits”. You can put that disc into his drive, you can play the game while you’re there, and then you go home and take that disc with you. But actually, “the bits” are still on his drive. If your friend decides that he really likes to play that game, then he can go buy it instantly, and it doesn’t need to download again. It’s already there. Once he’s paid for it, it’s immediately there.

Wired: So the discs that will be sold will essentially be start-up discs, and then the game isn’t really connected to the disc anymore once it’s been installed?

Harrison: Once you put the disc into your machine, you never need it again. If you want to keep it, that’s great. You can do that. But you can also download the game. You don’t actually have to have a physical disc after that point, but you can then share that disc with your friends which is basically a great way of distributing the content to other people.

Also, let me turn this around the other way. A game can be completely on a disc, with no additional content downloaded. You install the game on your hard drive, and other than pinging for Achievements and other multiplayer connectivity, then that’s it. That’s the end of it. Each game is on a case-by-case basis. But, I think it is very likely, that because of the inherent connectivity designed into the platform, that developers would want to expand and extend an experience over time.

This is completely the opposite that Major Nelson said in his interview. He stated that the game comes with a code that will be tied to the original XBox and to that person's XBL account. In addition, any other family accounts on that XBox will get to play the game. If you were to give the game to a friend for the weekend, and they play on their own account, they would have to pay the fee to unlock the game on their account. Should you choose to play your game at your friend's house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

 

[SlaX]

For those that just joined us, here is a quick rundown of what's going on with the XBox One announcement.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

So let me get what MS wants me to do:

To watch TV:

Choice A) I say "Xbox on" ... I then say "Xbox TV" ... I then say "Xbox guide"... I then take my hand and swipe up and down to select my channel

Choice B) Pick Up my Logitech Harmony One Remote... Press Live TV with my thumb ... Press Guide with my thumb ... scroll with my thumb and select my channel

I hate the Kinect. I have seen it in action and I was not impressed at all. I watched kids get bored with it twenty minutes after they started playing with it.

I hate that I can not longer sell games that I have high hopes for, plunk down my $60, find out it sucks and then resell it on ebay.

I hate that they are trying to improve my tv watching experience when its already simple pimple.

What is there to like about this thing?

 

[NCCommish]

A whole lot of usless speculation going on up in here.

Case in point - LOL at people arguing over which system is more powerful when the specs aren't even official.

Carry on (fellow) nerds.

While both consoles make use of an eight-core AMD Jaguar processor — which is a big win for AMD — the PlayStation 4 features 1,152 GPU cores compared to the Xbox One’s 768 graphics cores. Sony’s new console drives 1.84 TFLOPS as a result, compared to the new Xbox’s peak shader throughput of 1.23 TFLOPS.

The PlayStation 4 also has the edge when it comes to system memory, featuring 8GB of 5500MHz GDDR5 memory compared to the Xbox One’s 8GB of 2133MHz DDR3 RAM. Embedded memory and embedded memory bandwidth for the Xbox One are still unknown.

What does all this mean? In terms of raw gaming power, Sony’s PlayStation 4 is the clear winner.

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-vs-playstation-4-ps4-wins-specs-151527778.html

It is by no means that cut and dry. There is no clear "winner" at this point. There won't be a winner until games are played in the real world.

 

[Run It Up]

Where it gets tricky regarding used games is that the first XBOX the game is installed on will always be able to play the game, regardless of whether the disc is in the drive or not. Then you can give the disc to a friend (or sell it) and that person can play the game with the disc in the drive. So for every game that's sold two people can play it.

You misunderstood, you can't play off disk - EVERY game that you want to play on the X1 HAS to be installed. When you install it, you enter the product registration code and now that game is locked to your account, you could rip the game burn a million copies and hand em out and all you would be accomplishing is free production and distribution of physical copies of a game that other people still can't play unless they pay to have the game registered to their account. Used game industry goes out of business, the consumer suffers.Second fun reality about this is that the static storage for the X1 will be 500gb, until cloud storage is integrated (no mention of when that is happening) enjoy having to shuffle around game installations.

 

[Worm]

So let me get what MS wants me to do:

To watch TV:

Choice A) I say "Xbox on" ... I then say "Xbox TV" ... I then say "Xbox guide"... I then take my hand and swipe up and down to select my channel

Choice B) Pick Up my Logitech Harmony One Remote... Press Live TV with my thumb ... Press Guide with my thumb ... scroll with my thumb and select my channel

I hate the Kinect. I have seen it in action and I was not impressed at all. I watched kids get bored with it twenty minutes after they started playing with it.

I hate that I can not longer sell games that I have high hopes for, plunk down my $60, find out it sucks and then resell it on ebay.

I hate that they are trying to improve my tv watching experience when its already simple pimple.

What is there to like about this thing?

From what I have read, the new kinect has improved leaps and bounds over the first one. It's what the first one should have been.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

So let me get what MS wants me to do:

To watch TV:

Choice A) I say "Xbox on" ... I then say "Xbox TV" ... I then say "Xbox guide"... I then take my hand and swipe up and down to select my channel

Choice B) Pick Up my Logitech Harmony One Remote... Press Live TV with my thumb ... Press Guide with my thumb ... scroll with my thumb and select my channel

I hate the Kinect. I have seen it in action and I was not impressed at all. I watched kids get bored with it twenty minutes after they started playing with it.

I hate that I can not longer sell games that I have high hopes for, plunk down my $60, find out it sucks and then resell it on ebay.

I hate that they are trying to improve my tv watching experience when its already simple pimple.

What is there to like about this thing?

From what I have read, the new kinect has improved leaps and bounds over the first one. It's what the first one should have been.

I think its more of the concept than the results. I really dont want to wave my hands around in the air to change a channel, or pretend I am grabbing the corners of something and expanding my arms to take me to a home screen. Call me lazy, but pressing a button with my big fat thumb seems much easier. I really do not want to yell at my tv to call an audible during Madden or to give verbal commands in a FPS.

 

[Run It Up]

I think its more of the concept than the results. I really dont want to wave my hands around in the air to change a channel, or pretend I am grabbing the corners of something and expanding my arms to take me to a home screen. Call me lazy, but pressing a button with my big fat thumb seems much easier. I really do not want to yell at my tv to call an audible during Madden or to give verbal commands in a FPS.

Its not just you, touch screen and by extension motion capture are horrible interfaces.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So let me get what MS wants me to do: To watch TV: Choice A) I say "Xbox on" ... I then say "Xbox TV" ... I then say "Xbox guide"... I then take my hand and swipe up and down to select my channel Choice B) Pick Up my Logitech Harmony One Remote... Press Live TV with my thumb ... Press Guide with my thumb ... scroll with my thumb and select my channel I hate the Kinect. I have seen it in action and I was not impressed at all. I watched kids get bored with it twenty minutes after they started playing with it. I hate that I can not longer sell games that I have high hopes for, plunk down my $60, find out it sucks and then resell it on ebay. I hate that they are trying to improve my tv watching experience when its already simple pimple. What is there to like about this thing?

From what I have read, the new kinect has improved leaps and bounds over the first one. It's what the first one should have been.

I think its more of the concept than the results. I really dont want to wave my hands around in the air to change a channel, or pretend I am grabbing the corners of something and expanding my arms to take me to a home screen. Call me lazy, but pressing a button with my big fat thumb seems much easier. I really do not want to yell at my tv to call an audible during Madden or to give verbal commands in a FPS.

Agree wholeheartedly - these things lose their novelty 5 minutes in.

 

[Worm]

I've never been big on the motion controls to work the device. But, IF the audio controls are as simple and responsive as they showed in the demo, that has great appeal to me for TV control. The boxes we have from time warner are ridiculously slow and work extremely poorly. For me to just say "NC State Basketball" and have it turn automatically to that channel without me having to search around for 5 minutes? Yes, please.

Again, the caveat is IF it works as demo'd.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Nevertheless, Microsoft seems to have dropped a massive clanger by focusing on the Xbox One's TV capabilities instead of games, in contrast to Sony. The people who give a new console buzz are the ones who care the most about games, and Microsoft seems to have been slightly dismissive of them, serving up foregone conclusions like Call of Duty and FIFA

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/xbox-one-thrashed-by-ps4-in-gamespots-global-twitter-poll-50011308/

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Kinect is required?

Owners of the original Kinect on Xbox 360 had the ability to unplug the device, but that won't be the case with the ever-vigilant and always-listening Xbox One version, Corporate VP of Microsoft Studios Phil Spencer told Joystiq.

"Kinect has to be connected to Xbox One," Spencer said. "That, from a creator standpoint, I love, because I like to have a common platform that I can target."

Spencer did take the opportunity to note that just because Kinect is always connected now, it doesn't mean Xbox One games are going to integrate physical activity at every opportunity.

"What I'm seeing in the creation process is more subtle uses of Kinect. I think when Kinect first came out on 360 everybody felt if you weren't doing jumping jacks in the middle of the room it wasn't a Kinect game," he said, going on to describe various everyday uses, such as watching television, for the product.

If you have concerns about Microsoft installing an always-on microphone and camera in your living room, better invest in a veil for the camera and some way of muffling Kinect's "ears." Owners of the next-gen console will need to accept Kinect is watching thee and there's little privacy.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

 

[Slapdash]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

Well, yes, of course. The always-online thing is DRM designed for the express purpose of killing the used game market. That's the main reason why people are complaining about it. For your average person who buys games at retail, requiring a 24 hour ping is really just a mild inconvenience. But if you're accustomed to swapping discs with your friends or buying games off ebay, this is much more than a mild inconvenience. And this isn't just a case of the used game market dying off naturally due to digital delivery becoming the accepted standard. It's happening because Microsoft wants a monopoly on that market, at least for people who use XB1. I think people are perfectly justified in complaining about that.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

As far as purpose goes, a lot of the stuff that they showed during the presser wouldn't work offline. It sounds like the main reason though is that MS will be leveraging some of those 300,000 servers to allow devs to offload some of the game processing to the cloud so they are not limited by the system hardware. This will be available for developers of single player games to use as well.

Having one consistent platform is easier on developers as well. Every user will have a kinect attached and be connected to the internet. Apparently MS got a lot of flak from developers last gen for having SKUs with major differences (Kinect vs no Kinect, HD vs. no HD, etc).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

As far as purpose goes, a lot of the stuff that they showed during the presser wouldn't work offline. It sounds like the main reason though is that MS will be leveraging some of those 300,000 servers to allow devs to offload some of the game processing to the cloud so they are not limited by the system hardware. This will be available for developers of single player games to use as well.

Having one consistent platform is easier on developers as well. Every user will have a kinect attached and be connected to the internet. Apparently MS got a lot of flak from developers last gen for having SKUs with major differences (Kinect vs no Kinect, HD vs. no HD, etc).

If the bolded part is true, then how come the XB1 only requires a ping every 24 hours as opposed to a constant connection?

 

[culdeus]

Put it this way on used games.

Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay?

What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The more I think about it, the more I guess I'm not bothered by "always on".

I leave my laptop that's internet connected on 24/7. I guess...what's the big deal?

 

[LAUNCH]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

Well, yes, of course. The always-online thing is DRM designed for the express purpose of killing the used game market. That's the main reason why people are complaining about it. For your average person who buys games at retail, requiring a 24 hour ping is really just a mild inconvenience. But if you're accustomed to swapping discs with your friends or buying games off ebay, this is much more than a mild inconvenience. And this isn't just a case of the used game market dying off naturally due to digital delivery becoming the accepted standard. It's happening because Microsoft wants a monopoly on that market, at least for people who use XB1. I think people are perfectly justified in complaining about that.

It also has to do with people who just download the games from torrents.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

As far as purpose goes, a lot of the stuff that they showed during the presser wouldn't work offline. It sounds like the main reason though is that MS will be leveraging some of those 300,000 servers to allow devs to offload some of the game processing to the cloud so they are not limited by the system hardware. This will be available for developers of single player games to use as well.

Having one consistent platform is easier on developers as well. Every user will have a kinect attached and be connected to the internet. Apparently MS got a lot of flak from developers last gen for having SKUs with major differences (Kinect vs no Kinect, HD vs. no HD, etc).

If the bolded part is true, then how come the XB1 only requires a ping every 24 hours as opposed to a constant connection?

I can't really answer that, and I'm sure DRM is a nice little feature that they're more than happy to shoe-horn in there.

Here's the article about cloud computing on the XB1: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4352724/xbox-one-cloud-computing

It looks like the game DVR feature will also use the cloud to store the footage.

 

[LAUNCH]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

As far as purpose goes, a lot of the stuff that they showed during the presser wouldn't work offline. It sounds like the main reason though is that MS will be leveraging some of those 300,000 servers to allow devs to offload some of the game processing to the cloud so they are not limited by the system hardware. This will be available for developers of single player games to use as well.

Having one consistent platform is easier on developers as well. Every user will have a kinect attached and be connected to the internet. Apparently MS got a lot of flak from developers last gen for having SKUs with major differences (Kinect vs no Kinect, HD vs. no HD, etc).

If the bolded part is true, then how come the XB1 only requires a ping every 24 hours as opposed to a constant connection?

I can't really answer that, and I'm sure DRM is a nice little feature that they're more than happy to shoe-horn in there.

Here's the article about cloud computing on the XB1: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4352724/xbox-one-cloud-computing

It looks like the game DVR feature will also use the cloud to store the footage.

What I want is what I had in 1997 with Total Annihilation. The ability in Madden or NCAA to view game film from both sides and see what plays and or adjustments are being called from either viewpoint. We could have a group of people all watching the replays and white boarding strategies for upcoming clan matches.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Put it this way on used games.

Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay?

What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought.

That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

As far as purpose goes, a lot of the stuff that they showed during the presser wouldn't work offline. It sounds like the main reason though is that MS will be leveraging some of those 300,000 servers to allow devs to offload some of the game processing to the cloud so they are not limited by the system hardware. This will be available for developers of single player games to use as well.

Having one consistent platform is easier on developers as well. Every user will have a kinect attached and be connected to the internet. Apparently MS got a lot of flak from developers last gen for having SKUs with major differences (Kinect vs no Kinect, HD vs. no HD, etc).

If the bolded part is true, then how come the XB1 only requires a ping every 24 hours as opposed to a constant connection?

I can't really answer that, and I'm sure DRM is a nice little feature that they're more than happy to shoe-horn in there.

Here's the article about cloud computing on the XB1: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4352724/xbox-one-cloud-computing

It looks like the game DVR feature will also use the cloud to store the footage.

What I want is what I had in 1997 with Total Annihilation. The ability in Madden or NCAA to view game film from both sides and see what plays and or adjustments are being called from either viewpoint. We could have a group of people all watching the replays and white boarding strategies for upcoming clan matches.

I love it. My friends and I have been clamoring for the ability to watch our fellow league-mate's games in Madden.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

On the used games front this may only be the tip of the iceberg. Most of the negative aspects of the XBox One came via press questions after the press conference. Apparently after the Sony conference these questions weren't allowed, and Sony has done a lot of dodging on the question of used games themselves.

This article is a pretty good write-up on it: http://gengame.net/2013/05/ps4s-answer-to-the-pre-owned-games-question-is-still-just-as-unclear-as-xbox-ones/

 

[LAUNCH]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

A legitimate concern about the Kinect, from my point of view is that it's on your network. If someone makes malware for your computer, they may be able to compromise the kinect and be able to watch and hear whatever the unsuspecting person is doing.

 

[Worm]

On the used games front this may only be the tip of the iceberg. Most of the negative aspects of the XBox One came via press questions after the press conference. Apparently after the Sony conference these questions weren't allowed, and Sony has done a lot of dodging on the question of used games themselves.

This article is a pretty good write-up on it: http://gengame.net/2013/05/ps4s-answer-to-the-pre-owned-games-question-is-still-just-as-unclear-as-xbox-ones/

Yeah, Xbox is getting the heat, but I'd be very surprised if the two companies don't have similar systems regarding game purchasing/selling/DRM/etc.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

On the used games front this may only be the tip of the iceberg. Most of the negative aspects of the XBox One came via press questions after the press conference. Apparently after the Sony conference these questions weren't allowed, and Sony has done a lot of dodging on the question of used games themselves.

This article is a pretty good write-up on it: http://gengame.net/2013/05/ps4s-answer-to-the-pre-owned-games-question-is-still-just-as-unclear-as-xbox-ones/

My link

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I just wanted to make sure that you could take the brunt of the blame for that comment and then I was casually slip it in later with no one noticing.

 

[culdeus]

Put it this way on used games.

Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay?

What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought.

That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Put it this way on used games. Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay? What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought. That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

I can purchase and download all sorts of AAA titles from the PSN store that are multiple gigabytes.

 

[culdeus]

Put it this way on used games. Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay? What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought. That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

I can purchase and download all sorts of AAA titles from the PSN store that are multiple gigabytes.

And when you take these to gamestop what credit do you get to a new game?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Put it this way on used games. Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay? What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought. That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

I can purchase and download all sorts of AAA titles from the PSN store that are multiple gigabytes.

And when you take these to gamestop what credit do you get to a new game?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought.That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

 

[culdeus]

Put it this way on used games. Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay? What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought. That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

I can purchase and download all sorts of AAA titles from the PSN store that are multiple gigabytes.

And when you take these to gamestop what credit do you get to a new game?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought.That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Sorry, I can't deal with someone being so obtuse. Forest/Trees and all that.

 

[NCCommish]

Put it this way on used games. Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay? What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought. That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

I can purchase and download all sorts of AAA titles from the PSN store that are multiple gigabytes.

And when you take these to gamestop what credit do you get to a new game?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought.That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Sorry, I can't deal with someone being so obtuse. Forest/Trees and all that.

Yeah pretty sure Ivan isn't the one being deliberately obtuse here.

 

[Statcruncher]

I know I'm not a typical gamer but I've played games my whole life. From the Atari 2600 to the X-Box 360. Yes I'm cheap, but I've NEVER pirated/stolen/copied games, ever. Every game I've ever played has been from manufacturer's discs that I own. I'm not the guy that stands in line for games or has to have the latest thing. I never buy a console when it first comes out, but when I buy a console I always buy it new. When it comes to games I usually wait and pick them up dirt cheap used. Occasionally my kids want a new game and I'll buy it for them, but my purchases are probably 85% used.

I see Microsoft's strategy as simply being a three pronged money grab. First, bring in more money by forcing consumers of used games to pay Microsoft instead of Gamestop/eBay. While this sounds fair enough, their method of addressing this will create a monopoly, and I'm guessing their pricing structure will eventually be raised to extract maximum returns.

Second, it's ridiculous to have to connect to the internet/Microsoft to play a single player game. I know they champion this as a way to stop piracy, but IMO it's simply an excuse to further drive users to the Microsoft monthly fee structure. We stream Netflix free through our Wii. The Playstation network is free. X-Box charges a monthly fee. I'm sure the monthly fee will be going down since they've added hundreds of thousands of servers.

Third, by forcing the Kinect they're basically forcing the user to buy hardware they may not want. My son gets a kick out of his Kinect, but to me it's annoying. I specifically bought my X-Box without it and saved $100+ dollars. And this newest version is a little Big Brother for me. It's a device that's designed to record sound and cannot be shut off and also has an integrated camera for tracking human body position and motion which must be connected to the internet and Microsoft's network every day.

I agree that piracry is a huge problem, I wish I could wave my wand and make it go away. The way Microsoft is trying to change things is great for Microsoft, they should have more revenue coming in. IMO it's bad for cheap gamers like me, but then again I'm sure I'm not Microsoft's target demographic.

Take this all with a grain of salt. I'm the guy who still buys CD's. I like to read the liner notes/manuals of CD's/games and I like seeing them lined up on the shelf. I rip my CD's into my computer and then upload them to my MP3 player, but I've never bought an MP3. My wife and daughter have bought hundreds of MP3's and don't buy CD's, I've bought hundreds of CD's. I will now end my "get off my lawn" diatribe.

 

[Slapdash]

I think people need to accept that used games are a dying breed. The generation after this one will almost certainly be purely digital, at which point used games will cease to exist entirely (as they already do on the PC).

While I do buy/sell some used games occasionally, given that gaming is a ridiculously cheap hobby compared to the number of hours of entertainment we get out of it (I could spend more in a weekend skiing than I have in the last 5 years gaming for 1/1000th the amount of hours), and given that good game studios have been closing left and right, I'm ok with used games going away so more money goes back to the developers. That said, if used games are a priority for you then it would seem like the PS4 will likely be the way to go this gen (although they've kind of danced around the used games issue themselves other than saying it will be possible to play used games). Next gen after this one, you're probably SOL altogether.

The always-on complaints are kind of funny to me. People come up with all these theoretical situations where it would be a problem, but how often do you actually try to play games when you haven't been connected to the internet in the last 24 hours. I don't think I tried to do that a single time over the last 7 year console generation. Sure, there are times when we move and can't get the internet flipped on right away or the rare occasion where a storm knocks out the internet but not the power (usually the power is the first to go, so you won't be playing your console anyway), but how often do these actually occur for you personally, especially at a time when you would otherwise choose to play a game (I know I'm usually pretty busy during a move, not playing videogames). We're talking about maybe one or two play sessions during an entire console generation. Chances are that most people will spend more time on the internet #####ing about having to be online than they will not being able to play because they're not online.

Yeah, it sucks for Joe Farmer in Bumfck, North Dakota who can't get the internet. But let's be reasonable here, you're not fighting it because you care about Joe Farmer, you're fighting it because you like to complain.

If it doesn't serve any positive purpose to the user, and in some instances will be harmful, it isn't complaining to question why it should be brought in. The burden is on MSFT to convince people to support their profit grabbing.

As far as purpose goes, a lot of the stuff that they showed during the presser wouldn't work offline. It sounds like the main reason though is that MS will be leveraging some of those 300,000 servers to allow devs to offload some of the game processing to the cloud so they are not limited by the system hardware. This will be available for developers of single player games to use as well.

Having one consistent platform is easier on developers as well. Every user will have a kinect attached and be connected to the internet. Apparently MS got a lot of flak from developers last gen for having SKUs with major differences (Kinect vs no Kinect, HD vs. no HD, etc).

Well, its easier on developers who want to incorporate the Kinect into their games. I think that would be quite annoying.

 

[Jobber]

I rarely buy new games. I'll buy them months later at a discount. Usually on Amazon or if they're on sale at Best Buy or wherever. And every time, if I go to GameStop to look at used, it's the same price as new within just a few bucks.

This is my roundabout way of saying I couldn't care less about not being able to buy/sell games on the next generation. In fact, I'd rather go diskless anyway and download via PSN or XBL.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Statcruncher, on 23 May 2013 - 13:28, said:I know I'm not a typical gamer but I've played games my whole life. From the Atari 2600 to the X-Box 360. Yes I'm cheap, but I've NEVER pirated/stolen/copied games, ever. Every game I've ever played has been from manufacturer's discs that I own. I'm not the guy that stands in line for games or has to have the latest thing. I never buy a console when it first comes out, but when I buy a console I always buy it new. When it comes to games I usually wait and pick them up dirt cheap used. Occasionally my kids want a new game and I'll buy it for them, but my purchases are probably 85% used.

It does suck for the way you play, but as you said later on in your post you're probably not someone MS is worried about retaining. From their standpoint, you buy the console new, which they take a loss on. They're supposed to make that loss up on software, which you buy used and cut them out of. From their standpoint they're taking a loss to subsidize your ability to buy games from someone else.

Statcruncher, on 23 May 2013 - 13:28, said:Second, it's ridiculous to have to connect to the internet/Microsoft to play a single player game. I know they champion this as a way to stop piracy, but IMO it's simply an excuse to further drive users to the Microsoft monthly fee structure. We stream Netflix free through our Wii. The Playstation network is free. X-Box charges a monthly fee. I'm sure the monthly fee will be going down since they've added hundreds of thousands of servers.

You're misunderstanding this. You don't have to pay for XBL to authenticate your games.

Statcruncher, on 23 May 2013 - 13:28, said:Third, by forcing the Kinect they're basically forcing the user to buy hardware they may not want.

You don't have to buy Kinect. It comes with the Xbox One.

 

[culdeus]

Put it this way on used games. Have you ever tried to sell your used MP3 collection on ebay? What about your used copy of Angry Birds you never play?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought. That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Of course it works. MP3 are such a small format size that there is no need to distribute them by physical media. Games are different. The bandwidth demands of games is too high and companies are loathe to embrace torrents as a distribution method.

I can purchase and download all sorts of AAA titles from the PSN store that are multiple gigabytes.

And when you take these to gamestop what credit do you get to a new game?

Everybody knows that you can't resell digital goods. Nobody is disputing that resale is not an option for games you downloaded on XBL or PSN or Steam. That isn't what this is about though. What's happening is that consoles are now instituting DRM specifically for the purpose of controlling what you do with the disc that you bought.That's why the analogy to MP3s doesn't work. A better analogy would be if you could only rip your CDs once and the MP3 files were forever tied to your specific online identity.

Sorry, I can't deal with someone being so obtuse. Forest/Trees and all that.

Yeah pretty sure Ivan isn't the one being deliberately obtuse here.

The world is moving away from physical media. The fact you can't stop this isn't cause for a massive internet freakout. If PS/Xbox handle things like the PC world did it is no big deal at all except for Gamestop and rental places. So it goes. There is no market for reselling digital media, none yet people don't care that they can't hawk their .99 angry birds on ebay.

The fact that they plan on actually selling hard copies of the games changes nothing. This will be the last console generation with physical media.

There are lots of console guys that haven't booted a PC game in 10 years. PC guys have done fine without physical media for a long time and nobody whines about reselling pc games.

And I seriously doubt Sony of all people doesn't want to get behind this when their corporate history is far more riddled with content guarding practices than anyone in the history of the world save the catholic church.

 

[jwb]

I know I'm not a typical gamer but I've played games my whole life. From the Atari 2600 to the X-Box 360. Yes I'm cheap, but I've NEVER pirated/stolen/copied games, ever. Every game I've ever played has been from manufacturer's discs that I own. I'm not the guy that stands in line for games or has to have the latest thing. I never buy a console when it first comes out, but when I buy a console I always buy it new. When it comes to games I usually wait and pick them up dirt cheap used. Occasionally my kids want a new game and I'll buy it for them, but my purchases are probably 85% used.

I see Microsoft's strategy as simply being a three pronged money grab. First, bring in more money by forcing consumers of used games to pay Microsoft instead of Gamestop/eBay. While this sounds fair enough, their method of addressing this will create a monopoly, and I'm guessing their pricing structure will eventually be raised to extract maximum returns.

Second, it's ridiculous to have to connect to the internet/Microsoft to play a single player game. I know they champion this as a way to stop piracy, but IMO it's simply an excuse to further drive users to the Microsoft monthly fee structure. We stream Netflix free through our Wii. The Playstation network is free. X-Box charges a monthly fee. I'm sure the monthly fee will be going down since they've added hundreds of thousands of servers.

Third, by forcing the Kinect they're basically forcing the user to buy hardware they may not want. My son gets a kick out of his Kinect, but to me it's annoying. I specifically bought my X-Box without it and saved $100+ dollars. And this newest version is a little Big Brother for me. It's a device that's designed to record sound and cannot be shut off and also has an integrated camera for tracking human body position and motion which must be connected to the internet and Microsoft's network every day.

I agree that piracry is a huge problem, I wish I could wave my wand and make it go away. The way Microsoft is trying to change things is great for Microsoft, they should have more revenue coming in. IMO it's bad for cheap gamers like me, but then again I'm sure I'm not Microsoft's target demographic.

Take this all with a grain of salt. I'm the guy who still buys CD's. I like to read the liner notes/manuals of CD's/games and I like seeing them lined up on the shelf. I rip my CD's into my computer and then upload them to my MP3 player, but I've never bought an MP3. My wife and daughter have bought hundreds of MP3's and don't buy CD's, I've bought hundreds of CD's. I will now end my "get off my lawn" diatribe.

What I'm hoping for here is the game developers / producers get a slice of that fee (which I think they will.)

Game companies are continually in trouble. It costs a lot of money to make a game, and the only money they get for it are new sales. Gamestop reaps all the (substantial) profit from used games.

I'm going to guess game companies told MS and Sony "look, we can't/won't develop games unless we address this used game thing in the next gen, and all of us can make that money instead of gamestop".

Used games were great for consumers (I like them), and great for gamestop. But I can definitely see where game companies want it stopped.

 

[Jobber]

I'd also hope that we can get a bit of a price reduction when games drop. I belive that they've always built in the resale aspect into the cost of the game. No resale should = lower cost for the consumer. We'll see.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I'd also hope that we can get a bit of a price reduction when games drop. I belive that they've always built in the resale aspect into the cost of the game. No resale should = lower cost for the consumer. We'll see.

I wouldn't count on that. Game prices haven't even come close to keeping up with inflation as it is.

Games cost more than ever to make and are a far riskier investment than ever before, yet adjusted for the economy, they're as cheap as they've ever been.

That's why I don't get why people are so gaga over used games. The behemoths are generally safe, but we see large and very good studios shutting down left and right because they made one below average game to follow up four great ones. Meanwhile on our end we get an absurdly cheap hobby relative to the amount of entertainment it provides, and we want to chop off a few more bucks by sending even less money the developer's way.

We all save a negligible 5 bucks on a game and the development studio loses enough to sometimes put them in danger of shutting down shop.