***Official*** Amazon Rings of Power Thread (1 Viewer)

[beer 30]

My youngest daughter is watching all the movies to prep for reading the Hobbit and then the Lord of the Rings. She's been asking me a ton of questions and not gonna lie, pretty stoked that after about 45 years on this earth, I'll have someone in the family that I can talk to about this nonsense.

Oh, and for lack of a better place to put it...Warner Bros. announces new Lord of the Rings movies are coming.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Oh, and for lack of a better place to put it...Warner Bros. announces new Lord of the Rings movies are coming.

I saw this and it has me scratching my head. If they are just remaking Jackson's films, what's the point? If they are doing something like Rings Of Power and fleshing out other events, it may have some promise.

 

[beer 30]

Oh, and for lack of a better place to put it...Warner Bros. announces new Lord of the Rings movies are coming.

I saw this and it has me scratching my head. If they are just remaking Jackson's films, what's the point? If they are doing something like Rings Of Power and fleshing out other events, it may have some promise.

I believe it's the latter. I heard rumors of an Aragorn centric short series about his time bouncing around with the Dunedain, stuff like that.

 

[Psychopav]

Oh, and for lack of a better place to put it...Warner Bros. announces new Lord of the Rings movies are coming.

I saw this and it has me scratching my head. If they are just remaking Jackson's films, what's the point? If they are doing something like Rings Of Power and fleshing out other events, it may have some promise.

I believe it's the latter. I heard rumors of an Aragorn centric short series about his time bouncing around with the Dunedain, stuff like that.

This has me a bit shuked. How much is there to really mine in the era that Tolkien already fleshed out in detailed exposition? Seems like anything extra would have to be just action/adventure and nothing that really adds to the larger story (or else why wouldn't Tolkien have gone into more detail about it). Still, better than a remake of the Jackson movies I suppose.

Don't get me wrong, I'll watch the hell out of whatever they put out (at least at first for sure).

 

[NewlyRetired]

This seems promising for those hoping for not just a remake...

=====

De Luca and Abdy said New Line “took an unprecedented leap of faith” on Tolkien’s world two decades ago, but signaled that any new films would not necessarily revisit what Jackson’s films had covered, saying: “For all the scope and detail lovingly packed into the two trilogies, the vast, complex and dazzling universe dreamed up by JRR Tolkien remains largely unexplored.”

 

[beer 30]

This seems promising for those hoping for not just a remake...

I didn't get the feeling this was going to be a remake of the movies, more of a Rings of Power thing shedding light on parts of the story not already covered. Would seem silly to try to improve or redo what was close to perfection.

So how do you add to the LotR's storyline? I think it would be super awkward/weird if you used anyone other than the original actors and I don't think many of them would be up for more LotR stuff. So what's that leave you? The battles in Lothlorien and Erebor? Tom Bombadil (but what does that really do for you since it doesn't really relate to anything)? Or do they go Rings of Power type stuff and pick some of Tolkien's Unfinished Tales and tell a few of those?

 

[NewlyRetired]

This seems promising for those hoping for not just a remake...

I didn't get the feeling this was going to be a remake of the movies, more of a Rings of Power thing shedding light on parts of the story not already covered. Would seem silly to try to improve or redo what was close to perfection.

So how do you add to the LotR's storyline? I think it would be super awkward/weird if you used anyone other than the original actors and I don't think many of them would be up for more LotR stuff. So what's that leave you? The battles in Lothlorien and Erebor? Tom Bombadil (but what does that really do for you since it doesn't really relate to anything)? Or do they go Rings of Power type stuff and pick some of Tolkien's Unfinished Tales and tell a few of those?

I think it will be more the latter.

I did see this older article online today that talks about stories in the LOTR universe that could be stand alone movies. I doubt most of these would work but maybe one or two have some promise

10 Storylines From The LotR Books That Should Be Made Into Their Own Movies

The next ten stories from J R R Tolkien that should become live-action films in the Lord of the Rings universe.

screenrant.com

 

[beer 30]

I did see this older article online today that talks about stories in the LOTR universe that could be stand alone movies. I doubt most of these would work but maybe one or two have some promise

I would be on board for all of those except the Aragorn/Arwen love story and Tom Bombadil. I have no desire to see another love story unfold and unless you are going to explain Tom Bombadil, his story line goes no where and doesn't add/detract from the story at all. The rest I would watch the **** out of

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I did see this older article online today that talks about stories in the LOTR universe that could be stand alone movies. I doubt most of these would work but maybe one or two have some promise

I would be on board for all of those except the Aragorn/Arwen love story and Tom Bombadil. I have no desire to see another love story unfold and unless you are going to explain Tom Bombadil, his story line goes no where and doesn't add/detract from the story at all. The rest I would watch the **** out of

Granted, I'm a little confused on the "rights" issue, but I think I read WB only has rights to the Hobbit/LOTR novels. That puts the supplemental material in Volume 3 into play, or maybe only some of it. They do not have the rights to anything else, as far as I can tell.

If I were Warner Brothers, I'd do the Aragorn/Arwen tale. That's the least interesting to me personally, but I think that would involve the most viewers.

 

[Psychopav]

I did see this older article online today that talks about stories in the LOTR universe that could be stand alone movies. I doubt most of these would work but maybe one or two have some promise

I would be on board for all of those except the Aragorn/Arwen love story and Tom Bombadil. I have no desire to see another love story unfold and unless you are going to explain Tom Bombadil, his story line goes no where and doesn't add/detract from the story at all. The rest I would watch the **** out of

Granted, I'm a little confused on the "rights" issue, but I think I read WB only has rights to the Hobbit/LOTR novels. That puts the supplemental material in Volume 3 into play, or maybe only some of it. They do not have the rights to anything else, as far as I can tell.

If I were Warner Brothers, I'd do the Aragorn/Arwen tale. That's the least interesting to me personally, but I think that would involve the most viewers.

Could they do older stuff that's referenced in the novels? For example, the love story of Beren and Luthien, the loss of the Entwives, the history of the Bjornings, etc?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I did see this older article online today that talks about stories in the LOTR universe that could be stand alone movies. I doubt most of these would work but maybe one or two have some promise

I would be on board for all of those except the Aragorn/Arwen love story and Tom Bombadil. I have no desire to see another love story unfold and unless you are going to explain Tom Bombadil, his story line goes no where and doesn't add/detract from the story at all. The rest I would watch the **** out of

Granted, I'm a little confused on the "rights" issue, but I think I read WB only has rights to the Hobbit/LOTR novels. That puts the supplemental material in Volume 3 into play, or maybe only some of it. They do not have the rights to anything else, as far as I can tell.

If I were Warner Brothers, I'd do the Aragorn/Arwen tale. That's the least interesting to me personally, but I think that would involve the most viewers.

Could they do older stuff that's referenced in the novels? For example, the love story of Beren and Luthien, the loss of the Entwives, the history of the Bjornings, etc?

Seen different opinions on that. One said they only have the rights to the main text and another said they have the rights to the Appendix. As far as I've seen, they have zero rights to anything outside of LOTR & The Hobbit.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Seen different opinions on that. One said they only have the rights to the main text and another said they have the rights to the Appendix. As far as I've seen, they have zero rights to anything outside of LOTR & The Hobbit.

It is a very confusing situation.

There is a new anime movie coming out next year called The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim.

This movie is set ~120 years before The Hobbit and yet Warner Brothers has the rights to it....

 

[Rustoleum]

Some possibilities:

The Name of the Wose/Ghan buri Ghan, your love is Ghan: We follow the chief of the Druedain as he investigates the disappearance of a loved one in the hinterlands of Rohan.

Deep Water Pharazon: a cautionary tale about climate change

Where Smeagols Dare: A young Gollum infiltrates the Lonely Mountain in search of the finest eggs to suck.

 

[Tick]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

 

[Tick]

The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power – Tor.com

www.tor.com

I found these really interesting - the author was further on the axis of "this sucked in every way it differed from the source text" than me, but not at the extreme edge at least.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

I do not. I think they are going linear until the end of the Second Age and that Galadriel will remain the face of the show.

 

[Psychopav]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

The elves made all the rings, I think.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

The elves made all the rings, I think.

This is where the tv and books get confusing.

In total, 19 rings were made by the smiths (3 for the elves, 7 for the dwarf lords and 9 for mortal men) before the One Ring was made my Sauron.

But I think it was Sauron in disguise who gives the dwarves their rings. I don't know how that will be handled in the tv series.

If I am not mistaken, we have only seen 3 rings made so far.

 

[Psychopav]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

The elves made all the rings, I think.

This is where the tv and books get confusing.

In total, 19 rings were made by the smiths (3 for the elves, 7 for the dwarf lords and 9 for mortal men) before the One Ring was made my Sauron.

But I think it was Sauron in disguise who gives the dwarves their rings. I don't know how that will be handled in the tv series.

If I am not mistaken, we have only seen 3 rings made so far.

I'm confused too. I had thought that per the books, Sauron gave Celebrimbor the knowledge to make the rings, that Sauron helped make the 9 and the 7, but Celebrimbor made the elven rings without Sauron's involvement and that Sauron then went on to craft the One Ring independently to rule over the others. Maybe I'm mistaken, and he crafted the 7 and the 9 in Mount Doom after he left the elves?

 

[kupcho1]

There are threads where book-related conversation enhances the viewing experience.
This isn't one of them.

 

[Buckna]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

The elves made all the rings, I think.

This is where the tv and books get confusing.

In total, 19 rings were made by the smiths (3 for the elves, 7 for the dwarf lords and 9 for mortal men) before the One Ring was made my Sauron.

But I think it was Sauron in disguise who gives the dwarves their rings. I don't know how that will be handled in the tv series.

If I am not mistaken, we have only seen 3 rings made so far.

I'm confused too. I had thought that per the books, Sauron gave Celebrimbor the knowledge to make the rings, that Sauron helped make the 9 and the 7, but Celebrimbor made the elven rings without Sauron's involvement and that Sauron then went on to craft the One Ring independently to rule over the others.

Maybe I'm mistaken, and he crafted the 7 and the 9 in Mount Doom after he left the elves?

It’s very loosely described in Tolkiens writings IIRC, but in general yes on the 1st part. Sauron had no hand in the elven 3, but did on the others. How that plays out in the show, remains to be seen. Lots of speculation on the internet on who is going to receive rings from Sauron in the show. None of the men are truly named by Tolkien although there are lots of fans who have speculated who some of them are based on Tolkiens unpublished and unfinished works. As well as most of the dwarf rings are unknown, outside of Durin’s line which gets passed down to Thorin’s father who gets captured prior to the events of The Hobbit. IIRC the others are thought to have passed to other Dwarf lords living far in the north many of whom eventually get plundered/destroyed by various dragons or by minions of Sauron somehow. Sauron offers 3 rings he had re-acquired to the dwarves at the Lonely Mountain in exchange for information on Bilbo and the Shire which is mentioned at the Council of Elrond in the books.

Supposedly there were many lessor rings made as well via trial and error, which is what Gandalf thought Bilbo originally found, a lessor ring not the actual One ring.

 

[NewlyRetired]

. Sauron offers 3 rings he had re-acquired to the dwarves at the Lonely Mountain in exchange for information on Bilbo and the Shire which is mentioned at the Council of Elrond in the books.

Oh this is very interesting!

Due to the prologue of the Fellowship movie, I always kind of thought all the rings were given out 2-3 thousand years ago and all were given before the one ring was forged. I had no idea some were given so recently in regards to Bilbo's timeline.

 

[Buckna]

. Sauron offers 3 rings he had re-acquired to the dwarves at the Lonely Mountain in exchange for information on Bilbo and the Shire which is mentioned at the Council of Elrond in the books.

Oh this is very interesting!

Due to the prologue of the Fellowship movie, I always kind of thought all the rings were given out 2-3 thousand years ago and all were given before the one ring was forged. I had no idea some were given so recently in regards to Bilbo's timeline.

Sorry if i wasn’t clear, but they all were given out initially before Sauron revealed himself as evil in the time period the show is depicting. Sauron then over 1,000’s of years does everything he can to get most of them back but is never able to touch the Elven rings and some of the dwarves rings are lost to Dragon’s and other unmentioned calamities. He has at least 3 dwarf rings at the time of LotR back in his possession that he tries to bribe the dwarves into telling him where Bilbo is so he can get the One back. The men’s rings granted un-natural long life (kind of like Gollum) and eventually turned them all into the ring wraiths who came under his power.

Left out of the movies as well is that the Dwarves that tried to retake Moria and are discovered dead by the Fellowship are Balin (older one of the main guys with the really long beard in the movies) and a couple of the others depicted in The Hobbit movies (the dead one that wrote the book Gandalf reads from in Fellowship is the goofy, not a warrior dwarf that uses a slingshot in the first Hobbit movie, Ori.) They thought they could liberate Moria as so many of the Orcs had been killed in the battle where the dwarf king is beheaded by Azog (shown in flashbacks in the 1st Hobbit movie.) Left out of the films is one of the main reasons Balin went to liberate Moria is they thought they could find one of the Dwarf magic rings there. Thorin’s grandfather is the one beheaded in the books by the Orcs after being captured in Moria which prompted the war shown in The Hobbit flashback, and they thought the Orcs had stolen his magic ring.

 

[NewlyRetired]

. Sauron offers 3 rings he had re-acquired to the dwarves at the Lonely Mountain in exchange for information on Bilbo and the Shire which is mentioned at the Council of Elrond in the books.

Oh this is very interesting!

Due to the prologue of the Fellowship movie, I always kind of thought all the rings were given out 2-3 thousand years ago and all were given before the one ring was forged. I had no idea some were given so recently in regards to Bilbo's timeline.

Sorry if i wasn’t clear, but they all were given out initially before Sauron revealed himself as evil in the time period the show is depicting. Sauron then over 1,000’s of years does everything he can to get most of them back but is never able to touch the Elven rings and some of the dwarves rings are lost to Dragon’s and other unmentioned calamities. He has at least 3 dwarf rings at the time of LotR back in his possession that he tries to bribe the dwarves into telling him where Bilbo is so he can get the One back. The men’s rings granted un-natural long life (kind of like Gollum) and eventually turned them all into the ring wraiths who came under his power.

Left out of the movies as well is that the Dwarves that tried to retake Moria and are discovered dead by the Fellowship are Balin (older one of the main guys with the really long beard in the movies) and a couple of the others depicted in The Hobbit movies (the dead one that wrote the book Gandalf reads from in Fellowship is the goofy, not a warrior dwarf that uses a slingshot in the first Hobbit movie, Ori.) They thought they could liberate Moria as so many of the Orcs had been killed in the battle where the dwarf king is beheaded by Azog (shown in flashbacks in the 1st Hobbit movie.) Left out of the films is one of the main reasons Balin went to liberate Moria is they thought they could find one of the Dwarf magic rings there. Thorin’s grandfather is the one beheaded in the books by the Orcs after being captured in Moria which prompted the war shown in The Hobbit flashback, and they thought the Orcs had stolen his magic ring.

oh I love this stuff!! I have a couple of questions

* Was there any reason given as to why Sauron wanted the rings back? Did he want to place them on different people to control them instead of the original targets?

* Did the one ring ever, even briefly, have any control over the Elven rings?

* The movie scene when the Fellowship finds all the dead dwarves in Moria has always confused me. Gimili made it sound like his cousin (Balin?) had been there for quite a while and he was shocked to see them dead. The way you describe it makes more sense as them dying when trying to retake Moria but even then, wouldn't they have been long dead before the Fellowship arrives and as such how does Gimili have no idea that they are not alive?

 

[Uruk-Hai]

. Sauron offers 3 rings he had re-acquired to the dwarves at the Lonely Mountain in exchange for information on Bilbo and the Shire which is mentioned at the Council of Elrond in the books.

Oh this is very interesting!

Due to the prologue of the Fellowship movie, I always kind of thought all the rings were given out 2-3 thousand years ago and all were given before the one ring was forged. I had no idea some were given so recently in regards to Bilbo's timeline.

Sorry if i wasn’t clear, but they all were given out initially before Sauron revealed himself as evil in the time period the show is depicting. Sauron then over 1,000’s of years does everything he can to get most of them back but is never able to touch the Elven rings and some of the dwarves rings are lost to Dragon’s and other unmentioned calamities. He has at least 3 dwarf rings at the time of LotR back in his possession that he tries to bribe the dwarves into telling him where Bilbo is so he can get the One back. The men’s rings granted un-natural long life (kind of like Gollum) and eventually turned them all into the ring wraiths who came under his power.

Left out of the movies as well is that the Dwarves that tried to retake Moria and are discovered dead by the Fellowship are Balin (older one of the main guys with the really long beard in the movies) and a couple of the others depicted in The Hobbit movies (the dead one that wrote the book Gandalf reads from in Fellowship is the goofy, not a warrior dwarf that uses a slingshot in the first Hobbit movie, Ori.) They thought they could liberate Moria as so many of the Orcs had been killed in the battle where the dwarf king is beheaded by Azog (shown in flashbacks in the 1st Hobbit movie.) Left out of the films is one of the main reasons Balin went to liberate Moria is they thought they could find one of the Dwarf magic rings there. Thorin’s grandfather is the one beheaded in the books by the Orcs after being captured in Moria which prompted the war shown in The Hobbit flashback, and they thought the Orcs had stolen his magic ring.

oh I love this stuff!! I have a couple of questions

* Was there any reason given as to why Sauron wanted the rings back? Did he want to place them on different people to control them instead of the original targets?

* Did the one ring ever, even briefly, have any control over the Elven rings?

* The movie scene when the Fellowship finds all the dead dwarves in Moria has always confused me. Gimili made it sound like his cousin (Balin?) had been there for quite a while and he was shocked to see them dead. The way you describe it makes more sense as them dying when trying to retake Moria but even then, wouldn't they have been long dead before the Fellowship arrives and as such how does Gimili have no idea that they are not alive?

Bucka's sharper than I am, but....

Sauron re-gathered the existing Dwarf rings to control new owners since the originals had died out. He was blind, though, since the rings didn't work on those folks like he wanted them to.

The One never had control over the Elven Rings. They were not worn/used while Sauron possessed the One.

Gimli and the other Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain lost communication with Balin several years before. That's partially why they came to Rivendell (the other part was to warn Bilbo that Sauron was after him). The world was getting dangerous again and messengers between realms were scarce. You see it all through the books - no one is quite sure what anyone else is doing, even though they are on the same "side".

 

[NewlyRetired]

Gimli and the other Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain lost communication with Balin several years before. That's partially why they came to Rivendell (the other part was to warn Bilbo that Sauron was after him). The world was getting dangerous again and messengers between realms were scarce. You see it all through the books - no one is quite sure what anyone else is doing, even though they are on the same "side".

The Raven internet in Game of Thrones has made me underappreciate how hard it probably was to share information.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Gimli and the other Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain lost communication with Balin several years before. That's partially why they came to Rivendell (the other part was to warn Bilbo that Sauron was after him). The world was getting dangerous again and messengers between realms were scarce. You see it all through the books - no one is quite sure what anyone else is doing, even though they are on the same "side".

The Raven internet in Game of Thrones has made me underappreciate how hard it probably was to share information.

The TV show made it look a lot more efficient than it was in the Game Of Thrones books, where people were getting partial information by raven that was often wrong or late.

 

[Buckna]

. Sauron offers 3 rings he had re-acquired to the dwarves at the Lonely Mountain in exchange for information on Bilbo and the Shire which is mentioned at the Council of Elrond in the books.

Oh this is very interesting!

Due to the prologue of the Fellowship movie, I always kind of thought all the rings were given out 2-3 thousand years ago and all were given before the one ring was forged. I had no idea some were given so recently in regards to Bilbo's timeline.

Sorry if i wasn’t clear, but they all were given out initially before Sauron revealed himself as evil in the time period the show is depicting. Sauron then over 1,000’s of years does everything he can to get most of them back but is never able to touch the Elven rings and some of the dwarves rings are lost to Dragon’s and other unmentioned calamities. He has at least 3 dwarf rings at the time of LotR back in his possession that he tries to bribe the dwarves into telling him where Bilbo is so he can get the One back. The men’s rings granted un-natural long life (kind of like Gollum) and eventually turned them all into the ring wraiths who came under his power.

Left out of the movies as well is that the Dwarves that tried to retake Moria and are discovered dead by the Fellowship are Balin (older one of the main guys with the really long beard in the movies) and a couple of the others depicted in The Hobbit movies (the dead one that wrote the book Gandalf reads from in Fellowship is the goofy, not a warrior dwarf that uses a slingshot in the first Hobbit movie, Ori.) They thought they could liberate Moria as so many of the Orcs had been killed in the battle where the dwarf king is beheaded by Azog (shown in flashbacks in the 1st Hobbit movie.) Left out of the films is one of the main reasons Balin went to liberate Moria is they thought they could find one of the Dwarf magic rings there. Thorin’s grandfather is the one beheaded in the books by the Orcs after being captured in Moria which prompted the war shown in The Hobbit flashback, and they thought the Orcs had stolen his magic ring.

oh I love this stuff!! I have a couple of questions

* Was there any reason given as to why Sauron wanted the rings back? Did he want to place them on different people to control them instead of the original targets?

* Did the one ring ever, even briefly, have any control over the Elven rings?

* The movie scene when the Fellowship finds all the dead dwarves in Moria has always confused me. Gimili made it sound like his cousin (Balin?) had been there for quite a while and he was shocked to see them dead. The way you describe it makes more sense as them dying when trying to retake Moria but even then, wouldn't they have been long dead before the Fellowship arrives and as such how does Gimili have no idea that they are not alive?

Bucka's sharper than I am, but....

Sauron re-gathered the existing Dwarf rings to control new owners since the originals had died out. He was blind, though, since the rings didn't work on those folks like he wanted them to.

The One never had control over the Elven Rings. They were not worn/used while Sauron possessed the One.

Gimli and the other Dwarves at the Lonely Mountain lost communication with Balin several years before. That's partially why they came to Rivendell (the other part was to warn Bilbo that Sauron was after him). The world was getting dangerous again and messengers between realms were scarce. You see it all through the books - no one is quite sure what anyone else is doing, even though they are on the same "side".

Yes, all good answers. The dwarves were said to be resistant to the evil influence of the rings and their main power was in multiplying gold and other precious metals when worked or something like that. But the rings did cause the dwarves to become massively more wealthy but also greedy and selfish (The Hobbit movies made this into more of a madness or sickness of the mind for Thorin and his ancestors.) This lead to immense fortunes that eventually attracted the dragons like Smaug in The Hobbit. I believe its said Sauron coveted all the rings and wanted them all back for himself but he wasn’t above using them as tools to get what he wanted. There is speculation that the two other dwarf rings he had back came from dwarf clans in the east. Since the show seems to have The Stranger and the hobbit girl heading East, wondering if we will see some of these other clans at some point. The two Blue Wizards supposedly headed East as well, nearly everything “East” or “South” of Mordor aren’t really touched on by Tolkien very much, gives the show some freedom to make things up as they go for that part. Don’t know what they have rights for and what they don’t though.

The Council of Elrond is a bigger deal in the books. So many of the “good guys” don’t communicate, don’t trust each other, or are so far removed from each other it’s impractical and dangerous. The movies touch on this some, Gimli saying never trust an elf for example, or Boromir talking about how Gondor has stood alone against Sauron for years. Its been 1,000’s of years and most factions have kept to themselves in isolation for safety (only briefly seen in The Hobbit movies but Sauron has other strategic bases that threaten most of the major factions) or due to old grievances with each other. They come together at the Council to share information and to try to plan a defense as they know outright war is coming, and there it is also revealed that the One ring has been found. The books briefly mention other battles that aren’t seen in the movies (because already enough to keep track of) which is why more troops can’t come to Gondor’s aid.

It’s not explained in the movies but Aragorn is called a simple “Ranger of the North” by Boromir at the Council. Rangers were the leftover remnants of Gondor’s northern kingdom (the ruins of the watchtower where Frodo is stabbed by the wraiths was one of their fortresses similar to Isengard where Saruman lives.) The North was wiped out centuries earlier by the Witch King of Angmar establishing an evil kingdom that attacked them (the main wraith that is mentioned many times in the films.) Sauron spends 1,000’s of years systematically trying to wipe out or weaken various factions such as Gondor or the various other dwarf & elf strongholds that you don’t hear much about in the movies. Even though the North was one of the ones wiped out, Aragon can trace his lineage all the way back to the original king. The King’s line down in Gondor died out centuries before, as the last King of Gondor was a moron and accepted a challenge of single combat from the Witch King. He left the Steward’s in charge when he rode off to his death, the Steward’s being Boromir’s ancestors.

Balin’s expedition hasn’t been heard from in years, it’s feared they’re dead but they are too scared or weak to send another expedition to confirm. The book Gandalf finds goes into a lot more detail, Balin’s expedition is initially successful but eventually gets overrun due to no supplies or reinforcements. It’d be similar to dealing with like the original American colonies as an example, no way to communicate except by ships coming every few months or even years. They get cutoff from the main entrance by Orcs (the single bridge that the Balrog destroys fighting Gandalf) and try to escape out the back where the fellowship finds all the bodies in the film. In the books the dwarves are attacked by the monster in the water at the back entrance and can’t get past it and therefore become trapped in Moria and eventually wiped out. :(

 

[Todem]

So huge fan of all the books, The Jackson trilogy and his Hobbit trilogy….and I have not watched this yet.

Time to sink in and start.

 

[Tick]

Has anyone else read the Dennis McKiernan books that started out as a novella about the dwarves reclaiming Moria after LOTR? When he couldn't get the rights to publish it as a Tolkein story, he had to write a whole backstory that of course had to be very derivative of LOTR in order to set up the novella.

 

[Buckna]

So huge fan of all the books, The Jackson trilogy and his Hobbit trilogy….and I have not watched this yet.

Time to sink in and start.

Lots of mixed reactions, production value is off the charts. First few episodes are very slow and do a lot of world building. Later episodes got a lot better IMO. Unfairly got slammed online by incels pissed about black elves and lots of fanboys pissed as well because of other departures/updates. IMO, it does have some flaws and it’s not a perfect 1st season but has lots of potential.

 

[Rustoleum]

Has anyone else read the Dennis McKiernan books that started out as a novella about the dwarves reclaiming Moria after LOTR? When he couldn't get the rights to publish it as a Tolkein story, he had to write a whole backstory that of course had to be very derivative of LOTR in order to set up the novella.

I started them wayyyy back in the day. I think they must’ve just come out because the bookstore in the shopping center only had the first couple. Picked one up after bowling league in junior high (on the way to the other end of the shopping center to play Intellivison on the store display at the home electronics/appliance store until they kicked me out).

Anyway, junior high Rustoleum, who devoured anything and everything in the genre, found them too derivative to keep going, or at least continue to spend hard-earned grass-cutting money on.

Think it started with his equivalent of Minas Tirith, only there were lots more halfling archers involved in the fighting or something.

 

[Psychopav]

Has anyone else read the Dennis McKiernan books that started out as a novella about the dwarves reclaiming Moria after LOTR? When he couldn't get the rights to publish it as a Tolkein story, he had to write a whole backstory that of course had to be very derivative of LOTR in order to set up the novella.

 

[grateful zed]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

The elves made all the rings, I think.

sauron made the one ring.

 

[Psychopav]

I enjoyed season 1, looking forward to the rest. Do you think it will be one season per race, telling the story of how they were tricked into making the rings?

The elves made all the rings, I think.

sauron made the one ring.

The elves made all the rings, I think, except for the One Ring, which Sauron forged alone in the fires of Mount Doom.

 

[foxco]

Has anyone else read the Dennis McKiernan books that started out as a novella about the dwarves reclaiming Moria after LOTR? When he couldn't get the rights to publish it as a Tolkein story, he had to write a whole backstory that of course had to be very derivative of LOTR in order to set up the novella.

I read them as a kid, remember thinking "Man, this is really like LOTR" without knowing the backstory at the time. My favorite LOTR rip-off would be the Thomas Covenant Chronicles, which has an almighty magical ring at the center of the story and yet somehow (IMO at least) manages to stand on its own.

 

[foxco]

So huge fan of all the books, The Jackson trilogy and his Hobbit trilogy….and I have not watched this yet.

Time to sink in and start.

Lots of mixed reactions, production value is off the charts. First few episodes are very slow and do a lot of world building. Later episodes got a lot better IMO. Unfairly got slammed online by incels pissed about black elves and lots of fanboys pissed as well because of other departures/updates. IMO, it does have some flaws and it’s not a perfect 1st season but has lots of potential.

I enjoyed it a lot. Yes, it's sluggish at times, but the grandeur of being immersed in this rich, colorful world and top notch production values were great; enjoyed the world-building and mystery of the stranger, and the hobbit wannabees were plucky and fun. Not perfect, but I'm in on future seasons for sure.

 

[NewlyRetired]

So huge fan of all the books, The Jackson trilogy and his Hobbit trilogy….and I have not watched this yet.

Time to sink in and start.

Lots of mixed reactions, production value is off the charts. First few episodes are very slow and do a lot of world building. Later episodes got a lot better IMO. Unfairly got slammed online by incels pissed about black elves and lots of fanboys pissed as well because of other departures/updates. IMO, it does have some flaws and it’s not a perfect 1st season but has lots of potential.

I enjoyed it a lot. Yes, it's sluggish at times, but the grandeur of being immersed in this rich, colorful world and top notch production values were great; enjoyed the world-building and mystery of the stranger, and the hobbit wannabees were plucky and fun. Not perfect, but I'm in on future seasons for sure.

The LOTR movies are at the very top of my movie lists and I also found the Hobbit movies very enjoyable.

I went into Rings of Power with two pieces of knowledge. One was that it started slow and one was that liberties were taken with the time line.

I thoroughly enjoyed season 1. I found nothing that would have ruined the movie experience for me and am very much looking forward to season 2 and beyond.

I am old enough to know that every one has their own take on entertainment but even acknowledging that, I was taken a back at just how high the vitriol was on season 1 from a segment of the fan base of the books/movies.

@Todem I hope you enjoy your watch!

 

[NewlyRetired]

Has anyone else read the Dennis McKiernan books that started out as a novella about the dwarves reclaiming Moria after LOTR? When he couldn't get the rights to publish it as a Tolkein story, he had to write a whole backstory that of course had to be very derivative of LOTR in order to set up the novella.

I read them as a kid, remember thinking "Man, this is really like LOTR" without knowing the backstory at the time. My favorite LOTR rip-off would be the Thomas Covenant Chronicles, which has an almighty magical ring at the center of the story and yet somehow (IMO at least) manages to stand on its own.

The biggest "rip off/derivative" I read as a kid was the original Shannara books, which started with Sword of Shannara.

 

[Buckna]

Has anyone else read the Dennis McKiernan books that started out as a novella about the dwarves reclaiming Moria after LOTR? When he couldn't get the rights to publish it as a Tolkein story, he had to write a whole backstory that of course had to be very derivative of LOTR in order to set up the novella.

I read them as a kid, remember thinking "Man, this is really like LOTR" without knowing the backstory at the time. My favorite LOTR rip-off would be the Thomas Covenant Chronicles, which has an almighty magical ring at the center of the story and yet somehow (IMO at least) manages to stand on its own.

The biggest "rip off/derivative" I read as a kid was the original Shannara books, which started with Sword of Shannara.

Yeah, first book is a huge ripoff. I liked some of the sequel books like Elfstones and Wishsong. Don’t really remember too much after that, been decades since I read them. Went and checked and apparently there are like 20 something or so of those out now? Wow

 

[NewlyRetired]

I am bummed the Orlando Bloom news turned out to be a April Fool's Joke



For those that missed it, OneRing.net put this out yesterday

=================

Los Angeles, CA – Amazon Studios has announced that Orlando Bloom, break-out star of Peter Jackson’s The Lord of the Rings trilogy, will appear in the next season of the The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.

Developers J. D. Payne and Patrick McKay confirmed that Bloom will appear in the second half of the season as Oropher – the grandfather of Legolas.

“J. D. was chatting with Orlando at an industry event and Orlando said that he wished he could step back into Middle-earth because he’d had so much fun the first time around,” said Patrick. “We put our heads together and came up with a way to have him play his own grandfather. This actually works well as Orlando is 25 years older than he was when the Fellowship of the Ring was filmed. Therefore, he’ll bring more depth and gravity to Oropher.”

Oropher was a Sindarin elf who led his people north to lands around the Mountains of Mirkwood. His motive was to move out of range of the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm and avoid the threat of Mordor. If the series continues through to the Battle of Dagorlad, we’ll get to see Oropher’s final battle and death.

Patrick wouldn’t give details of Oropher’s story arc but a source told TheOneRing.net that the character will be involved in the Silmaril storyline.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I was taken a back at just how high the vitriol was on season 1

I was around the internet when the ramp-up to Jackson's films was happening and belonged to several forums of Tolkien fans. It was nuts - people were losing their minds over eye color or how large a dagger was supposed to be. I remember a moderator on one forum railing against every casting choice, leaked story choice, and pretty much everything else. He went and saw FOTR when it came out (why?) and wrote a review on the site. I'll never forget that he said he cried watching it because of how badly Jackson screwed up.

It's a million times worse now. When I saw they had cast Lenny Henry (the most accomplished actor in the whole damned cast), I thought "here we go...."

As an adaptation of Tolkien, I'd give the LOTR films a B+. I didn't like some of Jackson's changes (he butchered Denethor and was almost as bad with Gimli) and I thought he misread a few of Tolkien's themes, but I thought he did a better job than we had any right to expect. As films, they are monumental achievements.

I thought the Hobbit films were a mess and got progressively worse.

The Rings Of Power, I'm all in on. It's the least faithful adaptation we've had in terms of "facts", but I think they get the soul of the story (mostly) correct.

 

[beer 30]

The biggest "rip off/derivative" I read as a kid was the original Shannara books, which started with Sword of Shannara.

I was/am a huge Tolkien fan, got me interested in genre. From there I started branching out and read a lot of stuff along the same lines. The Shannara series was awesome because there were still new books coming out but it was a blatant rip off. Still read and re-read them all.

 

[Buckna]

I was taken a back at just how high the vitriol was on season 1

I was around the internet when the ramp-up to Jackson's films was happening and belonged to several forums of Tolkien fans. It was nuts - people were losing their minds over eye color or how large a dagger was supposed to be. I remember a moderator on one forum railing against every casting choice, leaked story choice, and pretty much everything else. He went and saw FOTR when it came out (why?) and wrote a review on the site. I'll never forget that he said he cried watching it because of how badly Jackson screwed up.

It's a million times worse now. When I saw they had cast Lenny Henry (the most accomplished actor in the whole damned cast), I thought "here we go...."

As an adaptation of Tolkien, I'd give the LOTR films a B+. I didn't like some of Jackson's changes (he butchered Denethor and was almost as bad with Gimli) and I thought he misread a few of Tolkien's themes, but I thought he did a better job than we had any right to expect. As films, they are monumental achievements.

I thought the Hobbit films were a mess and got progressively worse.

The Rings Of Power, I'm all in on. It's the least faithful adaptation we've had in terms of "facts", but I think they get the soul of the story (mostly) correct.

Yeah Tolkien fans (and very closely behind Star Trek fans) are the grand daddies of toxic fandom before the terms “toxic fandom” were ever coined. I still remember when some of the very first early set photo’s leaked which were of Arwin riding with dummy prop of Frodo to escape from the Nazgul. People were up in arms that it wasn’t Glorfindel like in the book. When Fellowship came out that honestly was one of the best scenes in the first film IMO.

Similar to you, I loved the films (Fellowship is my favorite) but was not totally happy with a lot of the changes in Two Towers and RotK. As you said, Denethor was character assassinated, and i remember leaving TT’s wondering why on earth and very disappointed we didn’t see Shelob. Over time as I thought about, it made sense the choice to shift her to the 3rd movie but other changes made less and less sense (Gandalf ***** slapping Denethor for poor comedy as an example.) I enjoyed the first two Hobbit films despite their flaws, but oof that 3rd one was just so awful. Having read about the many behind the scenes issues of The Hobbit films its amazing they didn’t turn out even worse than they did.

I’m not sure how any tv show is really going to make it long-term these days given so much negativity on the internet or the troll farms, clickbait “reaction” articles, or even organized review bombers and such if a show has content that someone wants to turn into a political statement or agenda. I liked RoP a lot, and it does have flaws and room for improvement, but seems a lot of that discussion just gets lost or bogged down in the noise of the political gripes or the fanboy complaints.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I was taken a back at just how high the vitriol was on season 1

I was around the internet when the ramp-up to Jackson's films was happening and belonged to several forums of Tolkien fans. It was nuts - people were losing their minds over eye color or how large a dagger was supposed to be. I remember a moderator on one forum railing against every casting choice, leaked story choice, and pretty much everything else. He went and saw FOTR when it came out (why?) and wrote a review on the site. I'll never forget that he said he cried watching it because of how badly Jackson screwed up.

It's a million times worse now. When I saw they had cast Lenny Henry (the most accomplished actor in the whole damned cast), I thought "here we go...."

As an adaptation of Tolkien, I'd give the LOTR films a B+. I didn't like some of Jackson's changes (he butchered Denethor and was almost as bad with Gimli) and I thought he misread a few of Tolkien's themes, but I thought he did a better job than we had any right to expect. As films, they are monumental achievements.

I thought the Hobbit films were a mess and got progressively worse.

The Rings Of Power, I'm all in on. It's the least faithful adaptation we've had in terms of "facts", but I think they get the soul of the story (mostly) correct.

Yeah Tolkien fans (and very closely behind Star Trek fans) are the grand daddies of toxic fandom before the terms “toxic fandom” were ever coined. I still remember when some of the very first early set photo’s leaked which were of Arwin riding with dummy prop of Frodo to escape from the Nazgul. People were up in arms that it wasn’t Glorfindel like in the book. When Fellowship came out that honestly was one of the best scenes in the first film IMO.

Similar to you, I loved the films (Fellowship is my favorite) but was not totally happy with a lot of the changes in Two Towers and RotK. As you said, Denethor was character assassinated, and i remember leaving TT’s wondering why on earth and very disappointed we didn’t see Shelob. Over time as I thought about, it made sense the choice to shift her to the 3rd movie but other changes made less and less sense (Gandalf ***** slapping Denethor for poor comedy as an example.) I enjoyed the first two Hobbit films despite their flaws, but oof that 3rd one was just so awful. Having read about the many behind the scenes issues of The Hobbit films its amazing they didn’t turn out even worse than they did.

I’m not sure how any tv show is really going to make it long-term these days given so much negativity on the internet or the troll farms, clickbait “reaction” articles, or even organized review bombers and such if a show has content that someone wants to turn into a political statement or agenda. I liked RoP a lot, and it does have flaws and room for improvement, but seems a lot of that discussion just gets lost or bogged down in the noise of the political gripes or the fanboy complaints.

Oh, God - I forgot about The Arwen Thing. Remember the leaked scenes with her at Helm's Deep? I actually liked that they brought her forward in the films, considering how PJ turned Aragorn's narrative inside-out. There was a lot of hand-waving done there (how did Boromir instantly know who he was?) and I know people who hadn't read the books were confused (my then-wife was one).

Nerd Culture drove the internet back then. There was the Triple Threat of the Star Wars prequels, PJ's LOTR films, and Harry Potter. Sports were a distant 2nd.

 

[the moops]

The Rings Of Power, I'm all in on. It's the least faithful adaptation we've had in terms of "facts", but I think they get the soul of the story (mostly) correct.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I’m not sure how any tv show is really going to make it long-term these days given so much negativity on the internet or the troll farms, clickbait “reaction” articles, or even organized review bombers and such if a show has content that someone wants to turn into a political statement or agenda.

thankfully business's like Amazon are driven by numbers and not by people typing angry thoughts because some guy is a dark skinned elf

And from all accounts, Rings of Power was a big hit for Amazon even given the unprecedented cost to make it

*The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, attracted more than 25 million global viewers on its first day, the biggest debut in Prime Video history, and closing in on 100 million viewers to date.

*According to Parrot Analytics, which measures the audience demand for television and film by tracking a number of factors, such as social media engagement and downloads, "The Rings of Power" averaged 30.5 times more demand than the average TV show in the U.S. during the first 30 days after its launch. This puts the series at the high end of what Parrot Analytics classifies as "outstanding," a level reached by just the top 2.7% of all U.S. shows.

*In the first two months since its launch, Rings of Power has driven more Prime sign-ups globally than any other Amazon Original.

 

[Instinctive]

The biggest "rip off/derivative" I read as a kid was the original Shannara books, which started with Sword of Shannara.

I was/am a huge Tolkien fan, got me interested in genre. From there I started branching out and read a lot of stuff along the same lines. The Shannara series was awesome because there were still new books coming out but it was a blatant rip off. Still read and re-read them all.

I own every one of them and never thought about it that way lol.

 

[Rustoleum]

The biggest "rip off/derivative" I read as a kid was the original Shannara books, which started with Sword of Shannara.

I was/am a huge Tolkien fan, got me interested in genre. From there I started branching out and read a lot of stuff along the same lines. The Shannara series was awesome because there were still new books coming out but it was a blatant rip off. Still read and re-read them all.

I own every one of them and never thought about it that way lol.

I always thought the lore with the fall of the modern world as we know it made it “fresh” enough.

Though at a macro level, an awful lot of fantasy revolves around the ”good“ people who don’t get along all that well are besieged by the “big bad”, who probably used to be one of them, but in the end they come together and the plucky underdogs do something with the magic doohickey or find their powers, etc., and save the day at the last minute. And somewhere in there, their mentor likely dies but comes back spiritually.

Shannara definitely fits the bill there, IMO. (and so does Star Wars.) I feel that LOTR more or less defines the genre though, so just about everything is going to be derivative at some level.

 

[El Floppo]

The biggest "rip off/derivative" I read as a kid was the original Shannara books, which started with Sword of Shannara.

I was/am a huge Tolkien fan, got me interested in genre. From there I started branching out and read a lot of stuff along the same lines. The Shannara series was awesome because there were still new books coming out but it was a blatant rip off. Still read and re-read them all.

I own every one of them and never thought about it that way lol.

I always thought the lore with the fall of the modern world as we know it made it “fresh” enough.

Though at a macro level, an awful lot of fantasy revolves around the ”good“ people who don’t get along all that well are besieged by the “big bad”, who probably used to be one of them, but in the end they come together and the plucky underdogs do something with the magic doohickey or find their powers, etc., and save the day at the last minute. And somewhere in there, their mentor likely dies but comes back spiritually.

Shannara definitely fits the bill there, IMO. (and so does Star Wars.) I feel that LOTR more or less defines the genre though, so just about everything is going to be derivative at some level.

Joseph Campbell's "Hero Journey"- star wars, lor,... on and on.