Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
What the hell happened to the Giants yesterday? I could see them getting beat, but not like that.
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*** Official Baltimore Ravens 2012/13 SB Champs Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Uruk-Hai
- Start date
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
How much money has Flacco lost with his play this year? He looks completely lost out there to me. He's like the anti-McNabb, who used to throw a gazillion balls into the dirt; Joe misses high all the time and many of those aren't even close. There was one 3rd and 8 or something yesterday where the WR ran an out - a throw that Flacco made often even as a rookie - and he sailed the ball 10 feet over the WR's head. I don't understand the regression.'roadkill1292 said:
steveski
Footballguy
They either show up or they don't. There's rarely ever a game where they play average. They started out with 2 early INT's and were in a hole early. I think they just gave up at that point.
The_Man
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I Flaccoed repeatedly throughout college.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
So, how much do the Ravens play their key guys Sunday?
They're going to be either the 3 or 4 seed depending on what NE does. Baltimore plays at 1 p.m. and NE at 4. I think NE can get the #2 if either Houston or Denver lose. Denver's not losing at home against KC. I guess Houston could be considered on thin ice at Indy, but I think they win that one.
If Denver & Houston get the byes, I don't think it matters which bracket the Ravens are in. They will be heavy underdogs against either. NE would be their best matchup in the divisional round even if it was in Foxboro. And both of the WC matchups - Indy or Cincy - would probably carry close to the same spread (unless maybe Cincy blows the Ravens out this week).
The above applies some to the Bengals too. I'm just wondering if the game doesn't look more important on the surface than it really is.
Ravens played either their best or 2nd-best game of the season last Sunday. NY looked horrible but I think Baltimore had a bunch to do with that. I DID want to throw the remote through the TV at Oher, though. Can that guy not count?
They're going to be either the 3 or 4 seed depending on what NE does. Baltimore plays at 1 p.m. and NE at 4. I think NE can get the #2 if either Houston or Denver lose. Denver's not losing at home against KC. I guess Houston could be considered on thin ice at Indy, but I think they win that one.
If Denver & Houston get the byes, I don't think it matters which bracket the Ravens are in. They will be heavy underdogs against either. NE would be their best matchup in the divisional round even if it was in Foxboro. And both of the WC matchups - Indy or Cincy - would probably carry close to the same spread (unless maybe Cincy blows the Ravens out this week).
The above applies some to the Bengals too. I'm just wondering if the game doesn't look more important on the surface than it really is.
Ravens played either their best or 2nd-best game of the season last Sunday. NY looked horrible but I think Baltimore had a bunch to do with that. I DID want to throw the remote through the TV at Oher, though. Can that guy not count?
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I think it's the right time for Ray. And I'm glad he made his mind up now when he can be appreciated at home one last time.
The_Man
Footballguy
The time is definitely right for Ray. The Ravens' D was clearly better when he was out, replaced by a healthy Ellerbee. I'm just glad he had the self-knowledge to walk away, instead of waiting to be pushed. And I'm sure Reed will be gone - that's $15 million off the cap right there that can go to good use on an ILB, Guard, and Safety.
That being said, am I crazy to think this announcement helps tip the game Baltimore's way? Things were feeling kind of blah heading into the game - losing 4 of your last 5 will do that. It's like the Ravens have gotten to the point where every season is Super Bowl or bust, and since this isn't looking like a Super Bowl season, people don't really care that much whether they're eliminated this week or survive to be eliminated next week.
Now, all of a sudden, winning this game seems vitally important - because whenever they lose, it will be Ray's last game. I guess we'll see.
But I do know how crazy that stadium is going to be when Ray comes out of the tunnel for his last Baltimore introduction. Luck and that patchwork offensive line are in for something they haven't experienced before.
That being said, am I crazy to think this announcement helps tip the game Baltimore's way? Things were feeling kind of blah heading into the game - losing 4 of your last 5 will do that. It's like the Ravens have gotten to the point where every season is Super Bowl or bust, and since this isn't looking like a Super Bowl season, people don't really care that much whether they're eliminated this week or survive to be eliminated next week.
Now, all of a sudden, winning this game seems vitally important - because whenever they lose, it will be Ray's last game. I guess we'll see.
But I do know how crazy that stadium is going to be when Ray comes out of the tunnel for his last Baltimore introduction. Luck and that patchwork offensive line are in for something they haven't experienced before.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Who else do you think is gone? I don't have a handy UFA/RFA list available.
The_Man
Footballguy
McKinnie is gone, that's a given. Flacco hitting free agency is going to suck up a lot of that Ray/Ed cap savings when they resign him.UFAs of note are Ellerbe, Kruger, and Cary Williams. I think Williams is gone for sure. He's a very solid CB and I just don't think the Ravens can afford him - plus they have Webb, Jimmy Smith, Graham, and Brown has looked good. Ellerbe has always been in Harbaugh's doghouse, but he's now your incumbent ILB and I think he'll be affordable. Kruger is the question - my guess is someone significantly overpays him and he leaves to become an every down disappointment in some other city, rather than a decent situational pass rusher, which is what he really is.James Ihedigbo is also an UFA. Will be interesting to see if the Ravens keep him, since he would be the starting Safety if they let Reed go. Arthur Jones, Dickson and Pitta are RFAs. Jones is on the way to being the legit NFL starter that we hoped Terrence Cody would be. They will keep Pitta - maybe someone else will sign Dickson, if he can hold on to the pen.The Ravens really need to rebuild the interior of their O line. Also looking astonishingly lean at LB.
rzrback77
Footballguy
Just another quick note to thank all of y'all for the excellent contribution to the Shark Pool on all things Ravens. I agree that the Ray Lewis retirement notification should really add some zeal to the game for both the fans and the team. I doubt that Reed would join in the announcement, but that would kick it up even more. I was really doubting that the Ravems would win, mostly based on the downward spiral over the last five weeks, but not sure with this news.
Regarding Joe Flacco, do y'all think that it is a slam dunk that he will be re-signed? His play this season was disappointing in my opinion, but I do not watch as closely as y'all, so what do you think about his play this year and the chances that he stays with the team?
Thanks again!
Regarding Joe Flacco, do y'all think that it is a slam dunk that he will be re-signed? His play this season was disappointing in my opinion, but I do not watch as closely as y'all, so what do you think about his play this year and the chances that he stays with the team?
Thanks again!
The_Man
Footballguy
There is a 100% chance that Flacco will be the Ravens QB next year. The only question is whether they reach a long-term deal, or he plays under the franchise tag.Yes, he has been disappointing this year, and it's looking like what he is now is all he's ever going to be - a middle of the pack NFL QB1. But who are the Ravens going to get that's any better? I'd rather have Flacco in the AFC North than Alex Smith - Flacco's arm is stronger for those bad weather playoff games and he's tough as nails, not having missed a game in his 5-year career.If the Ravens were to let him go, there are at least 10 teams who would be dying to get him. Plus the Ravens would be out there with those teams sifting through the scraps.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
100% agree. The Ravens and Flacco are joined at the hip for the foreseeble future. And I don't see Ozzie blowing it all up anytime soon - the Ravens have a lot of young talent and will keep trying to add pieces to remain competitive.So, Flacco's what we have for better or worse. If the D returns to upper-echelon, I think he's enough to win with.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
On Simmons' podcast this week, Aaron Schatz noted that Baltimore's special teams had been statistically one of the best ever this year, which surprised me a little. I knew they'd been solid but had not suspected that they'd been that good. They may need a Jacoby Jones punt return for a score Sunday to offset the shortcomings in their offensive and defensive units.
The_Man
Footballguy
I think Ray’s retirement announcement single-handedly altered the competitive balance of this Sunday’s game. After 5 straight years in the postseason, the Ravens and their fans have gotten into the mindset where making the playoffs is a given, and the only games now worth getting really excited about are those that could lead to a Super Bowl.
Pretty clearly, this year’s team is not a Super Bowl team and so things had been entirely flat leading up to Sunday’s Wild Card game. Prior to Ray’s announcement, I would not have been surprised to see the Colts beat the Ravens.
But now there’s an urgency attached to this game and I think the Ravens will control the Colts. Whether that boost extends into a game at Denver vs. arch-nemesis Peyton Manning – who, let’s be honest, has pretty much owned the Ravens for more than a decade.
If you’re a Baltimoron, you know how this town treasures its icons. And yet the greeting Ray gets this Sunday is going to blow away anything an athlete has ever received on a Baltimore playing field.
Unitas just drifted away.
I was at “Thanks Brooks” Day in September 1977. It was a warm and touching sendoff for a great guy who was shuffling out the door. There was no drama, just affection.
I was at the final game in Memorial Stadium. Tears were shed, but there was no passion.
The closest thing I can think of is the night Cal’s 2,131 game, but that was about a coronation, not about a competitive sporting event. You walked into the stadium knowing what was going to happen. The home run and the lap were incredible, but there was nothing on the line. You knew that Cal would be right back out there tomorrow night.
This Sunday is going to be Baltimore sending Ray off in style. Add to that the hype of a playoff game, and the urgency that comes from needing to win – because if the Ravens lose, then Ray’s career is over. It’s impossible to describe what it’s going to be like in that stadium when Ray comes out of the tunnel. But it's going to be the most incredible tribute to a Baltimore athlete that ever has happened, or ever will happen.
Pretty clearly, this year’s team is not a Super Bowl team and so things had been entirely flat leading up to Sunday’s Wild Card game. Prior to Ray’s announcement, I would not have been surprised to see the Colts beat the Ravens.
But now there’s an urgency attached to this game and I think the Ravens will control the Colts. Whether that boost extends into a game at Denver vs. arch-nemesis Peyton Manning – who, let’s be honest, has pretty much owned the Ravens for more than a decade.
If you’re a Baltimoron, you know how this town treasures its icons. And yet the greeting Ray gets this Sunday is going to blow away anything an athlete has ever received on a Baltimore playing field.
Unitas just drifted away.
I was at “Thanks Brooks” Day in September 1977. It was a warm and touching sendoff for a great guy who was shuffling out the door. There was no drama, just affection.
I was at the final game in Memorial Stadium. Tears were shed, but there was no passion.
The closest thing I can think of is the night Cal’s 2,131 game, but that was about a coronation, not about a competitive sporting event. You walked into the stadium knowing what was going to happen. The home run and the lap were incredible, but there was nothing on the line. You knew that Cal would be right back out there tomorrow night.
This Sunday is going to be Baltimore sending Ray off in style. Add to that the hype of a playoff game, and the urgency that comes from needing to win – because if the Ravens lose, then Ray’s career is over. It’s impossible to describe what it’s going to be like in that stadium when Ray comes out of the tunnel. But it's going to be the most incredible tribute to a Baltimore athlete that ever has happened, or ever will happen.
The_Man
Footballguy
No, my guy with the face value hook-up didn't come through and I just can't justify paying top $ when I'm digging out from the Christmas bills.So I'll be watching from home. Hopefully I won't be near the computer, based on some past drunken message boarding during Ravens playoff games.
But if any face value tickets come your way, I'm all ears!
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I've enjoyed the tail end of the season a lot more since I adopted The_Man's attitude from several weeks ago, as quoted above. Instead of viewing them with disdain, we should be looking at them as overachievers. They're fairly bad defensively yet somehow find a way to keep opposing offenses out of the end zone. Their receivers couldn't get open in a pickup game at a nursing home and the QB is pedestrian, yet they hit half a dozen big plays yesterday. If they were anybody else, they'd be the media darlings but somehow a cloud of disappointment hangs over them.I also need to credit T_M with being way ahead of the curve on identifying the high quality of the special teams. They just don't give up anything to the other guys.
The_Man
Footballguy
Thanks, good buddy.Here's the other thing I said back at Thanksgiving:
reston gave them a C+. What a moron. Jones is good on kick returns and a genuine weapon on punt returns. I haven't seen play like this since Jermaine Lewis in 2000, when you feel like the guy is one more missed tackle away from going all the way on almost every return. In the early going, the special teams kept the Colts pinned down and gave the Ravens good field position until the rest of the team got into the game. All those long Indy drives ended as FGs because they were driving the length of the field every time.
I still feel the same way. I used to think they were #4 in a 3-team race, now I'm thinking it might just be a 2-team race between Denver and New England. But they are very clearly the #4 team in the AFC, so a semifinal loss is appropriate. Of course I'd love them to win this week, but I don't see much chance of that. Denver's strengths - good pass rush led by speed guys on the outside, pass protection, and ability to exploit crossing routes on the inside - just match up so well with the Ravens' weaknesses. There are going to be Broncos running free all over the middle of the field on Saturday. Plus, Manning historically owns the Ravens anyway.So yesterday was a great and fitting conclusion to the season, just like the Orioles' win in the Wild Card game vs. Texas was. It was a chance to celebrate and take enjoyment from a fun season featuring a likeable group of players. And the Ray sendoff at home was fantastic.Offensive thoughts:Happy to see the Ravens finally field their best offensive line. McKinnie made Freeney disappear. Oher was still good for a false start though. Rice's playoff fumbles - one every 30 touches - threatens to become a thing if it happens again. So frustrating, since he's normally so reliable. Flacco was 7 of 11 for 174 yards and 2 TDs in the second half. I just shake my head at people who ask if he's the Ravens' future at QB. He was the 2nd best QB in the Wild Card round (behind Rodgers, maybe Wilson was a little better) - what do you think a team like Minnesota would give to have him? Even Cincy, for that matter - I'd be a little worried about Dalton if I were the Bengals. I loved feeling like Caldwell was actually making halftime adjustments based on what the Colts were doing, rather than just sticking with his gameplan like Cameron would do. When it became clear Indy was taking away Smith, Caldwell had them start feeding Boldin.Defensive thoughts:Nice effort, but an awful lot of time on the field for this aging group. They just couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. That has me worried about next week. The upside was they kept Indy out of the endzone. Though - to be honest - Indy also did a good job of keeping Indy out of the endzone. Did they ever throw a single pass across the goal line? I feel like they never challenged the end zone and after a couple of early deep shots, they never even tried to stretch the field vertically. Not much speed for the Ravens - they couldn't keep up with the Colts' WRs who luckily dropped a lot of balls. Kruger played very well and pass rush looked great - but it was easy to pass rush with 54 passing attempts. Ray looked about as good as he's looked all year - which is to say he's probably slightly better than league average as an LB, but a liability on passing downs who should come off the field in those situations. Corey Graham has saved the Ravens this year after the Webb injury and continues to play like a legit NFL CB.Special teams
reston gave them a C+. What a moron. Jones is good on kick returns and a genuine weapon on punt returns. I haven't seen play like this since Jermaine Lewis in 2000, when you feel like the guy is one more missed tackle away from going all the way on almost every return. In the early going, the special teams kept the Colts pinned down and gave the Ravens good field position until the rest of the team got into the game. All those long Indy drives ended as FGs because they were driving the length of the field every time.
The_Man
Footballguy
So, where does that Denver game rank on the list of all-time Ravens victories? I think the 2000 AFC Divisional game at Tennessee is #1 and I guess the Super Bowl is #2. But I’d rank this at #3, with the chance to go to #2 if it turns out to be the springboard to another Super Bowl.Can’t remember a game I’ve enjoyed more. Since I’d already accepted the Ravens’ as the #3 or 4 team in the AFC, I felt like a win over #1 would be like stealing and I was just hoping Ray went out on an appropriate note. So I just enjoyed the whole thing, even when it looked like they were going down fighting.A couple of fun facts about that game: Raves are 1st team ever to win a postseason game after trailing by at least 7 points with 31 or fewer seconds left in regulation. Also, first playoff game in history tied at the end of quarters 1-4, not to mention they were also tied at the end of quarter 5.I’m pretty much staying out of the Baltimore-New England thread. Just gets me aggravated. It kind of sucks that we few Ravens fans have been able to enjoy this entire season in obscurity, and now suddenly the whole annoying world jumps in for the big finish.Here are just some random thoughts/observations over the last couple weeks.Against Denver, the Ravens played nickel on virtually every play, including the first 68 snaps, until they went bigger to try to stop Denver from running out the clock. They dared Denver to run the ball, and Denver couldn’t do it, on 40 rushes, gaining just 3.2 YPC and did not have a single carry longer than 11 yards.Graham’s great game came from the slot, with Brown and Carey Williams on the outside. He did a great job on Stokley, and he also did a great job of occasionally peeling off his man and tackling Ray’s man after a catch (more about that in a minute) so it couldn’t go for a big gain. He will be tested again vs. Welker. Though it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Pats move Welker outside to test one of the other CBs.The Ravens also played 61 snaps of nickel vs. Indy. I really, really like this and I think they will stick with it as long as they can keep the Patriots from forcing them out of it by running the ball effectively. They also blitzed very rarely vs. Manning, going with 5 guys on 3 plays, and 6 guys on 3 plays, but going 4 or fewer for the rest. Brady kills the blitz and I hope the Ravens don’t do it much. Suggs picked a great time to show up vs. Denver, he needs to keep it going. Also, McPhee played a lot of snaps and looked pretty good, though he didn’t get much pressure. I am taking his increased snap count as a sign that he is getting healthy and might be ready to play better. People keep saying Reed had a terrible game. He looked terrible missing the tackle on Denver’s final TD, but I was thrilled to otherwise see him abandon the selfish free-lancing and play within an effective defensive structure. He obviously played a huge role in convincing Denver to abandon the deep game, as Manning threw just one pass of 20 yards (incomplete).What really, really worries me about the Pats? The way they’re going to expose Ray (and Ellerbe) in pass coverage. Indy targeted Ray 6 times for 8 completions and 80 yards and Ellerbe 3 of 3 times for 44 yards. Denver was 8 of 8 vs. Ray for 97 yards (though Ray did have great coverage on the RB on Manning’s final INT – when he scrambled to the right, he couldn’t go to the RB in the flat because Ray had him blanketed) and they were 5 of 8 vs. Ellerbe, including the TD pass to Moreno.I think you will be seeing a lot more of Reed this game, because he’s going to have to come up short and help out on the underneath routes. Unless that’s where they send Pollard to wreak havoc, and keep Reed back in deep centerfield. It will be interesting!But for whatever reason, the Ravens seem to do really well vs. Brady. In his last 6 games vs. Baltimore, Brady has a 59.7 completion percentage, 75.0 QB rating, with 7 TDs, 8 INTs, and 15 sacks.One final note – Flacco has played well the last 3 post-seasons, and has been excellent the last two. The 2010 game in Pittsburgh was his only mediocre game, and that would have been a lot different if Boldin catches the TD pass he dropped. Last year, he played great and should have been in the Super Bowl. And this year, he’s actually carried the team. His stats for the 2010-12 playoffs so far:107-184 for 1,485 yards, 12 TDs and 2 INTs, and a QB rating of 101.4. That includes 4 road games, as well as games vs. defenses that had NFL rankings of #2 (PIT, 2010), #3 (HOU, 2011) and #3 (DEN, 2012).
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Congrats. I really am surprised at how well the Ravens are doing in the post-season. Personally I had them pegged at one-and-done but they proved me wrong. Good luck against the Pats.
matttyl
Footballguy
Aside from Tom Brady, has any QB ever done that in his first 5 years in the league?
Really great write up and a nice assessment of the game to come, The_Man. For me, the worries I have stem from the quick tempo the Pats susatin throughout the game. Manning ran his muddle huddle but as usual he didn't snap the ball until under ten seconds were left on the game clock. NE, on the other hand, will run a traditional no huddle with quick lineups and qick snaps and I can see the Ravens dee getting winded quikly form all the chasing they are likely to be doing. Your spotlight of Ray and Ellerbe is spot on and that could create Reed creepng up, as you suggest, which could leave Lloyd open for big plays downfield.Suggs, Krueger and Ngata have to come up big up front or the Ravens season will end ugly, imo.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I think we all did. Barnwell said in Grantland yesterday that, if there was a case to be made for the Ratbirds' Super Bowl chances, though, it was made by the Giants a couple of years ago -- an inconsistent team during the regular season that had some decent talent and got red hot in the playoffs.I continue to be stunned at this run. Especially since they've lost the time of possession battle in their first two games and probably will do so again this week. But if they can cover the depleted Patriots' receiving corps in the red zone and make Gostkowski kick field goals instead of extra points, I guess you have to say that they again have a puncher's chance.'Godsbrother said:
The_Man
Footballguy
I don't know. I did see today that the only QBs with 6+ post-season wins in their first 5 years are: Flacco, Brady, Aikman, and Roethlisberger.Was explaining to my 10-year-old daughter this week that the AFC Championship game is the game that decides which team goes to the Super Bowl.
She said: "Oh, that's the game the Ravens always lose."
If they don't win this Sunday, that will become the AFC Championship game's official name in our house from now on.
Franknbeans
Footballguy
As a Steelers fan, watching the Ravens win anything is a little painful but living in the Northeast, nothing would be finer than to see the Pats fans shut their yaps, if only for a little while. Go Ravens! 
roadkill1292
Footballguy
The Ratbirds have been among the league's most effective teams at hitting the big play -- I can't remember where I saw that and if it was from an earlier The_Man post, I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due. Their worst case scenario (other than New England coming out hot and putting two or three quick scores up on the board, of which they're certainly capable) is Belichick keeping his secondary back far enough to prevent the TD bomb. If the Ravens hit a 30 yarder underneath to get into the red zone, he'll take his chances holding them to field goals while Brady puts a couple of sixes up on their own possessions.Does that make sense?
The_Man
Footballguy
Hey, fellow Ratbird fans.
Probably won't be posting much today. Definitely staying out of the Pats-Ravens thread, which is focused on the officiating from a game in Week 3. Coincidentally, the Broncos-Ravens thread is also a bunch of whining about refs.
Speaking of a guy who hated officials, RIP Earl. Either roady or UH first shared this clip. Take a look at it again.
As good as it gets.
Worried about the wind, worried about Ray getting exposed in coverage. Not anticipating a win, just hoping this team can go out an a fitting note. They've really played their ### off this season and are getting better with every game.
I still remember Sweetness sitting on the bench at the end of a Bears playoff loss to the Redskins that ended his career. And I'm hoping Ray goes out on a more fitting note.
Enjoy the game.
And UH, I've been reading some stuff on the GMTAN that has really shaken me up. I'll be catching up with you a little more soon, GB.
Probably won't be posting much today. Definitely staying out of the Pats-Ravens thread, which is focused on the officiating from a game in Week 3. Coincidentally, the Broncos-Ravens thread is also a bunch of whining about refs.
Speaking of a guy who hated officials, RIP Earl. Either roady or UH first shared this clip. Take a look at it again.
As good as it gets.
Worried about the wind, worried about Ray getting exposed in coverage. Not anticipating a win, just hoping this team can go out an a fitting note. They've really played their ### off this season and are getting better with every game.
I still remember Sweetness sitting on the bench at the end of a Bears playoff loss to the Redskins that ended his career. And I'm hoping Ray goes out on a more fitting note.
Enjoy the game.
And UH, I've been reading some stuff on the GMTAN that has really shaken me up. I'll be catching up with you a little more soon, GB.
Furious Styles
Footballguy
Windy all day here and MA and picking up intensity as we get into the afternoon. It will definitely have an effect on the passing game tonight.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Amazing and unexpected run we're seeing here. I thought with the way the Pats' offensive line dominated and their secondary covered (the old separation issue for Balt. WRs was raising its ugly head) in the first half, that it was gonna be a long uphill battle just to stay close in the final 30.
They shut out Tom Brady in the second half. When you guys sober up, you'll still appreciate that fact.
They shut out Tom Brady in the second half. When you guys sober up, you'll still appreciate that fact.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Very happy for all of you guys. The Ravens fans on this board are generally good people. 
The_Man
Footballguy
Except for UH. That guy is trouble.Christmas continues for two more weeks. Happy for Flacco about shutting a lot of people up.Very happy for all of you guys. The Ravens fans on this board are generally good people.
Really drunk now
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Except for UH. That guy is trouble.Christmas continues for two more weeks. Happy for Flacco about shutting a lot of people up.Very happy for all of you guys. The Ravens fans on this board are generally good people.
I think I'm still legally drunk. If I hadn't been out of the office most of last week, I sure as hell wouldn't be here today.Not much left to say that hasn't been said already. I am a little bit shocked that the Ravens are favored as I think SF is the better team, but what do I know?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Did anybody else immediately think of Simmons when Pollard blew up Ridley?
bushdocda
Footballguy
Ravens are ~4 pt dogs UH.Except for UH. That guy is trouble.Christmas continues for two more weeks. Happy for Flacco about shutting a lot of people up.Very happy for all of you guys. The Ravens fans on this board are generally good people.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Yeah, I heard that wrong with my drunk ears first thing this morning.Ravens are ~4 pt dogs UH.Except for UH. That guy is trouble.Christmas continues for two more weeks. Happy for Flacco about shutting a lot of people up.Very happy for all of you guys. The Ravens fans on this board are generally good people.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I mentioned in the Flacco thread how sharp he was on the TD passes but I particularly wanted to mention the second one, the first of Boldin's. From the end zone cam, you can see Joe's eyes see it, then FLICK...and the ball is away, heading for an altitude that only Boldin can reach. That was as good a read and throw as anyone in the NFL makes.The back and forth on this board about Flacco is pretty amusing. Nobody knows better than us how inconsistent he can be; in fact, he missed a lot of throws last night, especially early on. But with a decent line in front of him (a unit which has really done the job the past month and hasn't been talked about nearly enough), he's as dangerous as anyone in the leeg. Yet it seems to really bother some people here that he keeps winning all these games, like somehow he doesn't deserve to.
James Daulton
Footballguy
I keep typing out replies in that thread, then deleting them because I don't want to even dignify the discussion. We who follow the Ravens know that Joe can be really bad and really good. I'm holding out hope that the bad Joe was partly Cam's fault, and that now we have a new, consistent Joe to look forward to. I do wish they had signed him earlier though, he's now going to cost us another $3M - $5M on the cap each year.
The_Man
Footballguy
Hey, it's the fourth member of the FBG Ratbird club, James Daulton! Good to see you, also good to see dutch.I've said about all I'm going to say in the Flacco thread. And, like last week, I'm going to try to limit myself to this thread during all the discussion over the next two weeks. And, like last week, I know I'll fail and get myself all aggravated in the other threads. 
So some random thoughts:I am so impressed with this team's will. As I watch them play, I just can't help feel how much "want to" they have across the board. I think Ray did set that in motion with his retirement announcement. But now they've all internalized it. There are a lot of aging guys on this team who I think looked in the mirror after Ray's news, thought about the end of their careers coming down the pike, and realized they needed to get serious about trying to win. Suggs, Reed, Ngata, Birk, maybe Boldin most of all. It's been the difference between wanting to win and needing to win. Now I hope they can sustain that drive and not feel like their job is already done.I want to know what Ed Reed is doing back there in the secondary, but I have a feeling it's something pretty amazing. I've probably bashed Reed more than anyone for his inability to tackle (which he still can't do) and his selfish free-lancing, abandoning deep coverage responsibility in an effort to cherry pick INTs on underneath stuff, leaving his CBs to get burned on big plays. I'll have to check it again, but I think there have been maybe 3 balls thrown more than 20 yards downfield vs. the Ravens so far this post-season. Luck did a couple early, and there was that one in Denver where Williams' legs got tangled with the WR and they both feel down, and that's been about it. At the same time, Reed hasn't shown up anywhere in the box score, labelling some to call him a non-factor, especially after the Denver game. My sense is that he is playing an incredibly deep centerfield, maybe 20 yards, back and that his reputation, combined with his ability to cover incredible amounts of ground, has scared teams out of taking deep shots. It's impossible to know for sure without seeing the All-22 film, but something is working.Flacco is showing just how good he's become if the Ravens just give him some time in a clean pocket. The Patriots played the whole game in a cover-two deep shell with their Safetys over the top to force Flacco to sustain drives by hitting lots of passes in tight windows between the numbers. Bellichick knows that's been Flacco's weakness - remember how the Bengals and the Dungy-era Colts would do this? Well Flacco shredded the Pats down the middle in the second half with Boldin and Pitta. In the second half vs. the Pats, he was 15 of 24 for 159 yards and 3 TDs, all of which came right down the hashmarks. As Roadkill pointed out, that last TD to Boldin was about the best play we've ever seen Flacco make - stands tall in the face of a blitz, identifies the open man and delivers a perfect strike inside the back of the end zone. I posted it in the Flacco thread, but will throw it in here as well - over the last 3 years, Flacco is 5-2 in the postseason, with 15 TDs, 2 INTs and 102.2 QB ranking, despite playing 3 Top-3 Defenses in that stretch, two of them on the road.Bernard Pierce is a difference-maker. The Patriots had no answer for him.Osemele is a beast at Left Guard. I'll have to look at the video, but my sense is that the interior O line has been forming an absolute brick wall vs. pressure up the middle, and that any of the little pressure Flacco has faced in the playoffs has come off the edge. Instead of getting a lot of pressure up in his face - like usual - Flacco has had a very clean pocket, ability to scan the field, and is stepping into his throws with confidence. Worried about this O line for next year though - having an adequate LT makes everything fall into place. Having Oher at LT, Osemele at RT, and a joke like Jah Reid at LG makes them weaker at 3 O Line positions.Ellerbe is getting paid. The Ravens are pretty tight to the cap - to me it's a foregone conclusion that Carey Williams is gone; I think the Ravens pay to keep Ellerbe and let Kruger go to another city, where instead of being a successful situational pass rusher, he becomes a disappointingly overpaid every down player. Did you see that abomination where he tried to cover Hernandez? McPhee is healthy and has begun making a difference - obviously with the tipped INT, but also in setting the edge vs. the run and giving the Ravens a viable substitution for Suggs, which means he gets a little rest and is much fresher and more effective. Ngata also seems energized and is playing some of his best football. Cody is an afterthought at this point, and deservedly so.And I haven't even mentioned Corey Graham, who might be the team's defensive MVP of the playoffs. And Pitta is becoming an absolute weapon.To end, here's my updated ranking of the Top games in Ravens history:1. 2000 Divisional Playoffs at Tennessee2. 2012 Divisional Playoffs at Denver3. Super Bowl XXXV4. 2012 AFC Championship GameNow that the Ravens have returned to the Super Bowl, the Denver game has moved from 3 to 2. Because in both 2000 and 2012, it was a miraculous divisional round game that boosted the Ravens to the Super Bowl.
So some random thoughts:I am so impressed with this team's will. As I watch them play, I just can't help feel how much "want to" they have across the board. I think Ray did set that in motion with his retirement announcement. But now they've all internalized it. There are a lot of aging guys on this team who I think looked in the mirror after Ray's news, thought about the end of their careers coming down the pike, and realized they needed to get serious about trying to win. Suggs, Reed, Ngata, Birk, maybe Boldin most of all. It's been the difference between wanting to win and needing to win. Now I hope they can sustain that drive and not feel like their job is already done.I want to know what Ed Reed is doing back there in the secondary, but I have a feeling it's something pretty amazing. I've probably bashed Reed more than anyone for his inability to tackle (which he still can't do) and his selfish free-lancing, abandoning deep coverage responsibility in an effort to cherry pick INTs on underneath stuff, leaving his CBs to get burned on big plays. I'll have to check it again, but I think there have been maybe 3 balls thrown more than 20 yards downfield vs. the Ravens so far this post-season. Luck did a couple early, and there was that one in Denver where Williams' legs got tangled with the WR and they both feel down, and that's been about it. At the same time, Reed hasn't shown up anywhere in the box score, labelling some to call him a non-factor, especially after the Denver game. My sense is that he is playing an incredibly deep centerfield, maybe 20 yards, back and that his reputation, combined with his ability to cover incredible amounts of ground, has scared teams out of taking deep shots. It's impossible to know for sure without seeing the All-22 film, but something is working.Flacco is showing just how good he's become if the Ravens just give him some time in a clean pocket. The Patriots played the whole game in a cover-two deep shell with their Safetys over the top to force Flacco to sustain drives by hitting lots of passes in tight windows between the numbers. Bellichick knows that's been Flacco's weakness - remember how the Bengals and the Dungy-era Colts would do this? Well Flacco shredded the Pats down the middle in the second half with Boldin and Pitta. In the second half vs. the Pats, he was 15 of 24 for 159 yards and 3 TDs, all of which came right down the hashmarks. As Roadkill pointed out, that last TD to Boldin was about the best play we've ever seen Flacco make - stands tall in the face of a blitz, identifies the open man and delivers a perfect strike inside the back of the end zone. I posted it in the Flacco thread, but will throw it in here as well - over the last 3 years, Flacco is 5-2 in the postseason, with 15 TDs, 2 INTs and 102.2 QB ranking, despite playing 3 Top-3 Defenses in that stretch, two of them on the road.Bernard Pierce is a difference-maker. The Patriots had no answer for him.Osemele is a beast at Left Guard. I'll have to look at the video, but my sense is that the interior O line has been forming an absolute brick wall vs. pressure up the middle, and that any of the little pressure Flacco has faced in the playoffs has come off the edge. Instead of getting a lot of pressure up in his face - like usual - Flacco has had a very clean pocket, ability to scan the field, and is stepping into his throws with confidence. Worried about this O line for next year though - having an adequate LT makes everything fall into place. Having Oher at LT, Osemele at RT, and a joke like Jah Reid at LG makes them weaker at 3 O Line positions.Ellerbe is getting paid. The Ravens are pretty tight to the cap - to me it's a foregone conclusion that Carey Williams is gone; I think the Ravens pay to keep Ellerbe and let Kruger go to another city, where instead of being a successful situational pass rusher, he becomes a disappointingly overpaid every down player. Did you see that abomination where he tried to cover Hernandez? McPhee is healthy and has begun making a difference - obviously with the tipped INT, but also in setting the edge vs. the run and giving the Ravens a viable substitution for Suggs, which means he gets a little rest and is much fresher and more effective. Ngata also seems energized and is playing some of his best football. Cody is an afterthought at this point, and deservedly so.And I haven't even mentioned Corey Graham, who might be the team's defensive MVP of the playoffs. And Pitta is becoming an absolute weapon.To end, here's my updated ranking of the Top games in Ravens history:1. 2000 Divisional Playoffs at Tennessee2. 2012 Divisional Playoffs at Denver3. Super Bowl XXXV4. 2012 AFC Championship GameNow that the Ravens have returned to the Super Bowl, the Denver game has moved from 3 to 2. Because in both 2000 and 2012, it was a miraculous divisional round game that boosted the Ravens to the Super Bowl.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Good stuff, as always, in the previous post. I think the Ed Reed observations are particularly perceptive -- if he's been largely invisible, it might be because he's doing a great, disciplined job patrolling the back line. The secondary has surrendered ground very grudgingly, no small task against the murderer's row of Luck, Manning and Brady.Pitta catching his TD right after getting blown up was very impressive. In fact, Ravens defenders were called for lesser hits than that one, the most dangerous one of the game, maybe, well, after Pollard almost decapitated Ridley. Simmons, who was surprisingly accepting of this loss for his Patriots (he was concerned about the matchup with the Ravens, much like the better Patriots posters here), speculated that the Ravens were willing to pay the financial and yardage penalties for hitting the snot out of Welker, et al, and noted that Pats receivers might have had their fill of it by the fourth quarter.The Oline has definitely saved its best for the playoffs. I like seeing Joe with a clean pocket and I bet defenses hate it -- with his arm, they have to cover 50 yards of field sideline to sideline.
The_Man
Footballguy
So against Indy, the Ravens played nickel for 61 snaps. Against Denver they did it for 80 of 86, including the first 68, coming out only on the last possession of regulation to stop the Broncos from running out the clock. And now against the Patriots, they played nickel for 77 of the 80 contested snaps.Yet they held the Pats to 3.9 YPC and a long run of 9, after holding Denver to 3.2 and long run of 11.Fascinating to me. They also blitzed on just 8 of 52 drop backs. In the second half, Brady dropped back 28 times, 25 times the Ravens rushed 4, and 2 other times they rushed fewer than 4. They dared the Pats to beat them running or throwing into tight windows and they couldn't do it.I wonder how/if this nickel-only approach will continue vs. SF. It seems to me that they will have to change, because Gore will kill them on the ground vs. 5 DBs in a way that Indy, Denver, and NE could not.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Any chance Ed walks into the sunset with Ray if he gets his ring? He's looked very old lately.
The_Man
Footballguy
My guess is that he comes back, but he could very well be through in Baltimore. Ed seems to think he's still a top player due a major payday and he's a free agent at the end of the year. The Ravens might want him at a low price, or they might not want him at all. But they certainly don't want him for top dollar. In a perfect world, he'd go out after a Super Bowl in his hometown. But I think his desire for one more deal brings him back.
My opinion is Reed thinks he still has more to contribute so he'll likely stick around the NFL but I seriously doubt he's with the Ravens next year. He'd have to go to a team that needs a center field threat but otherwise is strong in coverage. I actually think the 49ers are a good fit for him.
The_Man
Footballguy
So I was thinking about the 2000 team and wondering how these two Ravens squads would stack up.For starters, I think the 2000 Ravens would beat this team something like 17-6. But then again, I like that 2000 team’s chances against almost any team in NFL history. People don’t fully understand just how dominant that defense was. They outscored their 4 postseason opponents by an average score of 24-6. That was the capstone to a season-ending 11-game winning streak that saw them outscore opponents 288-90. That means they won every game from Halloween through the Super Bowl, with an average score of 26-8.But my real question in comparing in the two teams is who from this year’s defense could have started for the 2000 team, and who from 2000’s offense could have started for this year’s team?On defense, there’s only one 2012 player clearly better than his 2000 counterpart, and it might surprise you: Strong Safety Bernard Pollard over Kim Herring. The only other position battles, in my opinion, would be Ngata vs. Adams (I consider Kemoeatu the Nose Tackle, comparing him to Siragusa), Suggs vs. Boulware, and Reed vs. Woodson. At their best, Reed, Ngata and Suggs are all clearly better. But Reed is past his prime and the other two guys have been hurt this year and perhaps aren’t playing as well as their counterparts did in 2000. I’ll give the nod to Woodson (because he could tackle), Adams and to Suggs, because Boulware was kind of hurt that year too, playing with a brace to keep his shoulder from always popping out. Also, at nickel corner, I’d take Graham over James Trapp, but I don’t know if you count nickel CB as a starter. On offense, if you put Ogden at Left Tackle with the rest of the 2012 line, you’d have an all-time unit. Mulitalo was good, but KO is better, Flynn and Swayne were pretty bad, and Birk gets an edge over Mitchell, even at his age. This year’s starting WRs are clearly better than Ismail and Patrick Johnson; you might give Stokley the nod over Jones as the third WR but that’s a close toss-up. Tight end is also very close, but I’ll give Sharpe the slightest edge over Pitta, because his numbers were better even 12 years ago, plus he was pretty much the defense’s top priority in the passing game and he still did well. But the way Pitta and Flacco are going, by next year this one will probably be different. I think Caldwell is turning Pitta into Dallas Clark. QB? Please.Finally, at RB, I compared the backfields because it was too hard to break them down player-by-player. Either way you slice it, Jamal/Priest/Gash and Rice/Pierce/Leach are pretty incredible. But I have to go with 2000: 1952 yards rushing and 517 receiving, compared to 1675 and 525. And that’s with the defense gearing up to stop the run at all costs.
