*** OFFICIAL *** Baseball Offseason Moves (2006-07)... (1 Viewer)

[Statorama]

Jennings and a reliever for Tavares, Buckholtz and Hirsch. Hirsch is one of the stros best pitching prospects.On the whole, I like the deal as long as the Stros extend Jennings. They've got too many offensive holes in their lineup with the pitcher, Tavares, Everett, and Ausmus. Jennings posted a good year while pitching in the best hitters park in the league. They may have over paid though depending on how good Hirsch turns out to be.

Well, that closes the book on who turned down the deal with the Sox. Garland is a better pitcher than Jennings, but the Sox should have took the Stros up on the offer.Not a bad deal for the Rocks, as Tavares will be the CF/Leadoff hitter they've been looking for since the Pierre days. Bucholz will have tough times in COL, but Hirsch has the chance to be just as good as/better than Jennings.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Jennings and a reliever for Tavares, Buckholtz and Hirsch. Hirsch is one of the stros best pitching prospects.

A 25 year old who has no out pitch, and has about 3 above-average pitches?Troy Patton is a MUCH better prospect.

 

[Keys Myaths]

By the way, Rockies fans, Taveras is AWFUL. When you can't get on base, you have no power, and your speed is overrated, you have yourself a bust.

 

[Polecat]

Jennings and a reliever for Tavares, Buckholtz and Hirsch. Hirsch is one of the stros best pitching prospects.

A 25 year old who has no out pitch, and has about 3 above-average pitches?Troy Patton is a MUCH better prospect.

Taveras couldn't keep his job last year. He makes too many mistakes in the field, and he's a slappy hitter at best. His type of bunt and run offense doesn't fit with the Astros, who have little speed.Saw enough of Buchholz to know that he's likely a journeyman at best, albeit with a health concern.

Hirsh might be good down the road, but who knows? Lots of pitching prospects never make it.

Better to trade for a known commodity in Jennings than try to piece together a rotation with what you have. I like this deal right now. In a couple of years, who knows.

 

[dparker713]

Jennings and a reliever for Tavares, Buckholtz and Hirsch. Hirsch is one of the stros best pitching prospects.

A 25 year old who has no out pitch, and has about 3 above-average pitches?Troy Patton is a MUCH better prospect.

Patton isnt nearly as close to MLB ready as Hirsh and the Rockies clearly wanted someone closer to the majors. As for Jennings vs. Garland, I'd rather have Jennings as he's already pitched in a launching pad and has been pitching in the NL.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

Fantastic deal for the Astros. They gave up nothing of substance.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Jennings and a reliever for Tavares, Buckholtz and Hirsch. Hirsch is one of the stros best pitching prospects.

A 25 year old who has no out pitch, and has about 3 above-average pitches?Troy Patton is a MUCH better prospect.

Patton isnt nearly as close to MLB ready as Hirsh and the Rockies clearly wanted someone closer to the majors. As for Jennings vs. Garland, I'd rather have Jennings as he's already pitched in a launching pad and has been pitching in the NL.

Minute Maid as a launching pad is HIGHLY overblown.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

 

[Capella]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

wow, has he fallen off.

 

[RKMoney]

Jennings and a reliever for Tavares, Buckholtz and Hirsch. Hirsch is one of the stros best pitching prospects.

A 25 year old who has no out pitch, and has about 3 above-average pitches?Troy Patton is a MUCH better prospect.

This guys knows things.

Good trade for the Stros

 

[RnR]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

I cannot understand this. Surely he had some trade value over the past month or so.

 

[Gambino]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

I cannot understand this. Surely he had some trade value over the past month or so.

Schuerholz said the Braves talked to every team with a possible second-base need and tried to trade him, but couldn't find any takers.

Interested teams likely decided to wait to see if he'd be a free agent.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/b...3gilesgone.html

 

[RnR]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

I cannot understand this. Surely he had some trade value over the past month or so.

Schuerholz said the Braves talked to every team with a possible second-base need and tried to trade him, but couldn't find any takers.

Interested teams likely decided to wait to see if he'd be a free agent.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/b...3gilesgone.html

Thanks for the link, but that's still really puzzling to me. Back in early November, rumors were floating all over the place that they would make a Giles/Linebrink swap with San Diego. While that may not have been very realistic, you have to think that they could've gotten a lesser pitcher from San Diego at that point in time. Anything is better than letting him walk for free.

 

[Statorama]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

I cannot understand this. Surely he had some trade value over the past month or so.

Schuerholz said the Braves talked to every team with a possible second-base need and tried to trade him, but couldn't find any takers.

Interested teams likely decided to wait to see if he'd be a free agent.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/b...3gilesgone.html

Hope you're wrong. I'd hate to think the Cubs feel they're stocked at 2nd.

 

[Gambino]

Marcus Giles non-tendered by the Braves - look for the Padres to sign him shortly.

I cannot understand this. Surely he had some trade value over the past month or so.

Schuerholz said the Braves talked to every team with a possible second-base need and tried to trade him, but couldn't find any takers.

Interested teams likely decided to wait to see if he'd be a free agent.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/b...3gilesgone.html

Thanks for the link, but that's still really puzzling to me. Back in early November, rumors were floating all over the place that they would make a Giles/Linebrink swap with San Diego. While that may not have been very realistic, you have to think that they could've gotten a lesser pitcher from San Diego at that point in time. Anything is better than letting him walk for free.

The Braves beat guy said that originally Schuerholz was asking a handsome price for Giles, but at the winter meetings he could be had for a case of sunflower seeds. Nobody bit. The guy really looks like an average player. Cox has never been a real big fan, and he didn't help himself with his reluctance to embrace the leadoff spot this year. I know a guy who works on the Braves broadcast production and he says that Giles is regarded as "special" in a :11: kind of way by his teammates and managment. They probably could have gotten a very low level prospect, but they are going to stick to this strict $80mm payroll and didn't want to take a chance on getting stuck with him.

 

[RnR]

I know a guy who works on the Braves broadcast production and he says that Giles is regarded as "special" in a :11: kind of way by his teammates and managment.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I think that to myself everytime I see him on TV.

 

[Northern Voice]

Jays reportedly offer Wells 7 years, 126 million dollars

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsAA...o&type=lgns

The Toronto Blue Jays have one of those adult decisions to make, 2½ months after finishing 10 games behind the New York Yankees and a game ahead of the Boston Red Sox in the AL East.

Its name is Vernon Wells.

He is the signature position player for an organization that, with a slight payroll push, has gained 20 wins over the past two seasons. He is 28 years old, two years younger than Alfonso Soriano.

He also can be a free agent after next season, at a moment when the game is awash in wealth and the Blue Jays are trying to keep their momentum in a top-heavy division.

About now, however, Toronto and its baseball franchise are deflecting Carlos Delgado flashbacks, and general manager J.P. Ricciardi is reliving his formative years in Oakland, during which Mark McGwire was traded and Jason Giambi was allowed to walk. Not long after Ricciardi left for Toronto, Miguel Tejada left the A's for the same financial reasons.

According to one baseball source, Ricciardi has floated to Wells a proposal of seven years and $126 million, the average annual value of which would exceed Soriano's contract with the Chicago Cubs (eight years, $136 million) by $1 million.

Ricciardi would not comment and Wells' agent, Greg Genske, would only say, "We have yet to have meaningful discussions," about a contract extension.

There are three ways this could go. Wells could sign an extension with the Blue Jays. He could be traded and sign long-term with his new team. Or, no matter where he spends the 2007 season, he could be part of next winter's free-agent class that might include premier outfielders Andruw Jones and Ichiro Suzuki.

Ricciardi has been down this route before, learning from Sandy Alderson and Billy Beane the rules of mid-market engagement. He appears to have vacillated on Wells, for a while being firm in his intention to hold on as long as he could, lately seeming likely to explore trades for a return on the organization's decade-long investment. He has signed Frank Thomas to be his designated hitter and Royce Clayton to settle shortstop, but, in missing out on free-agent pitchers Ted Lilly and Gil Meche, he lacks a full rotation.

Wells would leave a massive hole in the middle of the Blue Jays' lineup and in center field, where he's won three Gold Gloves in a row. Presumably, he'd bring pitching, where the Blue Jays were stronger than the Yankees and Red Sox last season, but, again, lost Lilly to the Cubs and reliever Justin Speier to the Los Angeles Angels. While Lilly had his goofy moments, he made as many starts as Roy Halladay, won one fewer game (and lost eight more, over 38 fewer innings) and had one fewer quality start. He wasn't Halladay, but neither was he Josh Towers.

Blue Jays fans adore Wells, as does management. He was drafted by Toronto with the fifth overall pick in 1997. He was a big-leaguer by 1999 and a full-timer by 2002. He arrived as a composed, skilled kid and has become a regular All-Star, a leader, a spokesman. Team president Paul Godfrey told the Toronto Star recently that Wells is "a model athlete," at a time when we could use them.

But, they're getting used to this in Toronto, just as they have in Oakland. Delgado left Toronto two years ago. Shawn Green was traded seven years ago. Roger Clemens was traded the year before that.

So stands Ricciardi, in a familiar place, weighing a contract extension Wells deserves against roster and payroll decisions that just aren't that easy.

"Any decision you make, the hardest thing to do is not have your emotions involved," he said Tuesday morning. "I can't tell you what's going to happen. What I can say is our ownership is going to allow us to do everything in our power to keep him, within reason. And that's where the gray area lies.

"Just like Delgado, this is a wonderful guy with a great family who stands for all the right things."

Of them all, Ricciardi recalled the A's decision to trade McGwire, who went to St. Louis for three middling pitchers, as most disheartening.

"We knew we were trading him for financial reasons," he said, "and weren't getting a return on the dollar."

Then he added, "Not to sound cold, but the game does go on."

He noted that it went on for the Seattle Mariners when they traded Ken Griffey Jr., and for the Texas Rangers when they traded Alex Rodriguez.

"Some of these organizations have done a good job," he said. "In a perfect world, we could keep all these players. But, we don't live in a perfect world. You just have to be smart about it. It doesn't matter which way you go, you're going to be criticized for it."

That leaves Wells.

Ricciardi paused.

"I don't think we know yet," he said.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I hope Wells stays put in Toronto. Thanks.

 

[Bogart]

I hope Wells stays put in Toronto. Thanks.

he will visit next year when the Rangers come to town.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I hope Wells stays put in Toronto. Thanks.

he will visit next year when the Rangers come to town.

I won't be in town then. Actually if it's Toronto I doubt I'll ever be in town.

 

[ThisGuy]

Miguel Batista 3 years/$27million...

 

[RKMoney]

The Boston Herald reports that the Red Sox's latest offer to Daisuke Matsuzaka is for six years and a total of $48 million, while Matsuzaka is asking for $66 million over six years.

If they're truly that close and can both agree on the deal's length, it seems likely that a deal can get done before Thursday's deadline. However, indications are that if Matsuzaka isn't on a plane back to Boston to take his physical by Wednesday afternoon, no deal will get done. We'll see. Dec. 13 - 9:04 am et

Source: Boston Herald

 

[Jules Winnfield]

While the Tigers are out getting Sheffield, I see the Twins are getting Jeff Cirillo.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Matsuzaka is on the plane to Boston.

 

[Northern Voice]

Jeff Blair's take on the Jays and Wells, with a list of possible suitors/deals. Blair is regarded as easily the most informed in Toronto on the Jays and is pretty close to Ricciardi.

Blair: Trade options abound for Jays' Wells

Jeff Blair, 12/12/06 at 9:17 PM EST

It is, Paul Godfrey said Tuesday night, "a very major issue in the mind of the media." And while that alone isn't reason enough to trade Vernon Wells and there is a sense that the Toronto Blue Jays do not have a hard and fast deadline for getting a contract extension done, the same gentlemen whose 2006 Christmas surprise was Troy Glaus have hunkered down to start looking internally at the ways they can improve their pitching beyond last weeks still-born free-agent foray.

Other avenues. Different options.

From here, it seems a very short leap to Wells being traded before the start of spring training. Yet oddly distant, too. For the arguments against trading Wells - the guaranteed offence he brings along with his Gold Glove, the fact that at $5.6 million (U.S.) he's cheap, the idea that trying to make the playoffs in 2007 seems an impossibility without him in the lineup and the reality that with free agency a year away any team acquiring him is assuming a risk - there are a myriad counter-arguments in favor of dealing him.

He won't get $20 million annually from the Blue Jays - ever - and it's better to get something for him than letting him walk after 2007, particularly if that "something" can pitch in the major leagues right now. Frank Thomas' right-handed bat should offset any immediate loss in offence. Coupled with the fact that the Blue Jays were willing to offer Ted Lilly and Gil Meche a combined $20 million annually to pitch for them, ditching Wells should leave the team a whack of cash ($25 million) to assume a high salary in return.

A G.M. could do some serious damage with that much coin. Even in this marketplace.

Suddenly, wrapping your head around the idea isn't all that hard.

It's been less than a week since general manager J.P. Ricciardi left Orlando, the site of baseball's annual winter meetings. That's given him and the organization time to catch their breath. Time to re-evaluate.

Godfrey, the Blue Jays president and chief executive officer, knows that the hot stove league takes on a life of its own - especially in light of the overhaul Ricciardi pulled off last winter. He cautions against making dangerous leaps, of putting two and two together this early in the process.

"The way I look at it, the free market - the free-agent market - is now coming to a close," Godfrey said. "Now, the trade market is heating up. Plus, you know, Opening Day is four months away."

With that in mind, here's a quick perusal of what the trade market for Wells looks like:

1. Los Angeles Dodgers: This is too easy. The Dodgers have good young outfielders (Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier) and pitchers the calibre of Chad Billingsley and maybe even Brad Penny. Most of all, like the second team on this list, they play in the National League - and while the Blue Jays would never say so, they'd much rather see Wells in the NL than the American League.

2. New York Mets: Aaron Heilman could start for the Blue Jays (as one baseball man noted at the winter meetings "the only team in baseball that doesn't see him as a starting pitcher is the Mets,") Mike Pelfrey would not be far behind and outfielder Lastings Milledge could start and add some athleticism to the Blue Jays. G.M. Omar Minaya expects Ricciardi to live up to his word and give him first crack at Wells. Think Carlos Delgado and Wells have text-messaged each other much this winter? It takes a bold G.M. to pull off this deal and have the confidence to get an extension hammered out with Wells. Minaya's the guy.

3. Texas Rangers: Alas, Wells' dream scenario is not the Blue Jays' dream scenario. The thinking all along has been that Wells would prefer to play in his hometown but I don't think these clubs match up. Something to keep in mind: Wells isn't the only native of the Metroplex who will be a free-agent centre-fielder next year. Guy named Torii Hunter will be, too. But signing Kenny Lofton to a one-year, stop-gap deal this week sure makes you think they've got their eye on 2008.

4. New York Yankees: They're the Yankees, right?

5. Chicago White Sox: They traded Freddy Garcia. They've tried to trade Jon Garland and Javier Vazquez. Frankly, there's 'buyer beware' red flags all over any dealing with G.M. Kenny Williams.

6. Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: OK, so they have Gary Matthews, Jr., to play centre. He can move. Owner Arte Moreno likes to make a big splash and there's enough young pieces here that something might be worked out.

* Scott Boras told everybody at the winter meetings he could get Eric Gagne a double-digit salary for 2007 despite the fact that Gagne was an afterthought for the Dodgers this past year because of back surgery and elbow trouble. Close. Gagne agreed to a contract with the Rangers Tuesday that guarantees him $6 million and contains $5 million in incentive bonues

* filled out my Hall of Fame ballot Monday: Mark McGwire, Cal Ripken, Jr., and Tony Gwynn. Let the e-mails commence ...

* could the San Francisco Giants be lying in the weeds, waiting for Barry Zito?

* Jeff Suppan isn't getting any love from the Cardinals

* I agree with FOX Sports Ken Rosenthal: the Matsuzaka deal has to happen

 

[RedRaiders]

While the Tigers are out getting Sheffield, I see the Twins are getting Jeff Cirillo.

In other news, Jeff Cirillo is still in the major leagues. Unbelievable.

 

[wilked]

 

[Leroy Hoard]

GYROBALL

 

[Dan Gladden's Mustache]

While the Tigers are out getting Sheffield, I see the Twins are getting Jeff Cirillo.

:championship:

 

[Yankee23Fan]

terms?

 

[wilked]

Red Sox offered 8 million per season for 6 seasons, while Boras wanted 11 million per for 6 seasons. Likely they end up somewhere in the middle.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Red Sox offered 8 million per season for 6 seasons, while Boras wanted 11 million per for 6 seasons. Likely they end up somewhere in the middle.

Ok, so let's say they probably ended up at $9 for 6 and there is a club option for a 7th at $15$54 and with option $69 plus the $51 makes it 6 year $105 million with a possible additional 15. $120 total for 7.If he is anything near what they say he is, it's a good contract for the Sox, especially when you factor in the new market.

 

[wilked]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

 

[Chemical X]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.

there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.

its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

 

[Eephus]

i need to reiterate that this will go down in history as the worst free agent class/signings in history.there's not 1 contract i really like. as a met fan, i kinda dont mind alou for 1 yr and 8.5mill. i guess glavine for 1 yr and 10.5mill is palatable, given the meche contract. el duque for 2 yrs @ 12mill seems a bargain.its not so much the money, its the years involved. i mean, meche for 5 yrs?

Aramis Ramirez 5 yr / $75MFrank Thomas 2 yr / $18MAdam Kennedy 3 yr / $10MRay Durham 2 yr / $14MJay Payton 2 yr / $9.5Mare the best of a bad lot of multi-year deals. Rich Aurilia could also work out OK if he doesn't forget how to hit again.Some of the one year fliers like Gagne, Jose Guillen, Kip Wells and Kerry Wood strike me as decent low risk, high reward moves.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

I am worth every penny.

 

[the moops]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

 

[Sammy3469]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

 

[tommyGunZ]

espn radio has the terms, after the break.

 

[Dan Gladden's Mustache]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

Do you think if Matsuzaka is getting 6yr/$60mil that he's being signed "below market"? If so, I'm not sure that I agree with you given that he hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB.I still think its a great move for the Sawx, however its not risk free.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

do you discount the ARod contract by the added revenue the Yankees bring in by having him on the roster?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

Did you even bother to read my post or did you just launch right in to your condescending post?

 

[Daisuke Matsuzaka]

espn radio has the terms, after the break.

i think kieth just let it slip - 6 years, $52 million.if so, wow, i'm coming at a huge bargain. omfg you fired boras.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

espn radio has the terms, after the break.

i think kieth just let it slip - 6 years, $52 million.if so, wow, i'm coming at a huge bargain. omfg you fired boras.

 

[tommyGunZ]

si.com says 6/$52M

sounds like the Sox held their ground, and Boras caved.

 

[the moops]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

do you discount the ARod contract by the added revenue the Yankees bring in by having him on the roster?

If you could point to added revenue that ARod is responsible for, then yes. Don't know how much extra ARod brings to the table, but if I had to guess, I would say not much.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

I think it is fine to do so to get a ballpark value figure for what they are paying Matsuzaka per year...All other accounting for the deal (i.e. tax implications, luxury tax, offsetting profit in John Henry's portfolio, expected revenue generated by the signing, etc) certainly does mitigate the signing, but we never take that into account...We don't look at A-Rod's salary and factor in how much $$ he "makes" for the Yankees, we just report an annual salary #...

ARod has nothing to do with Matusaka. And he certainly has nothing to do with the Sox giving 51 million to Seibu.Hypothetical for you. What if, in the next 5 years the Sox generate 40 million dollars in added revenue from the Japanese market because of this signing. Will you take that out of the equation as to what they are paying Matsuzaka? And then deem that they paid only 65 million for 6 years?Because in effect, that is what they are doing with the 51 million.

do you discount the ARod contract by the added revenue the Yankees bring in by having him on the roster?

If you could point to added revenue that ARod is responsible for, then yes. Don't know how much extra ARod brings to the table, but if I had to guess, I would say not much.

So you don't.

 

[Sammy3469]

I don't feel like going through it, but the $51 has VERY different taxes applied to it. You can't combine it with salary

You don't have to go through it with me. I understand how the whole system works. I was just ballparking the total numbers to get an idea of overall value of what the end game of his contract looks like. You don't need to downgrade into defense mode with me on this one like so many others do. I'm not attacking the economics of baseball or the stupidity of the Red Sox front office. I'm just eyeballing what it means in terms of the current market.You guys did good. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire posting thing gets looked at again (I'm sure Boras would have really loved to have turned the screws harder this time, but Matsuzaka basically burned his bridges a month ago in Japan and thus had no real fallback position). As more top Japanese players show that they can be MLB All-Star type talents, the posting systems seems like a realtively easy way for the big market clubs to circumvent the luxury tax. Post a big number that's not luxury taxed and thus basically force the player to sign at below market wages since they really have no bargainning power.I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a European football type transfer system in the end where the player gets some percentage of the posting with that amount counting for luxury tax purposes over the course of the contact length.

Do you think if Matsuzaka is getting 6yr/$60mil that he's being signed "below market"? If so, I'm not sure that I agree with you given that he hasn't thrown a pitch in the MLB.I still think its a great move for the Sawx, however its not risk free.

In this market yeah (and at 6yrs/52 mil evenmoreso). If Gil Meche gets 11 mil per year, a 26 year old who's better than him should certainly command something from 13-16 million per year range.