King of the Jungle
Footballguy
This team is just not meant to have success. Hope he recovers fully.
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*** Official Chargers 2023 Thread - Had A VERY Nice Season *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Gr00vus
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
How much impact does the center being out have on their passing game, do they have depth?
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
As I contemplate the notion of staying up until midnight in order to be inevitably disappointed, it occurs to me that being a Chargers fan is an awful lot like having a deep crush on a girl who is completely undependable and is just dating you until something better comes along.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
If there's an NFL record for extending drives with unnecessary roughness penalties on 3rd down in a season, I'm guessing Derwin James is really hoping to break it this year.
Congratulations to the head umpire for getting more air time than the broadcast team. That can't be easy.
Nice to see Bosa suiting up to watch the game again. This week he even watched from the line of scrimmage a few times.
Congratulations to the head umpire for getting more air time than the broadcast team. That can't be easy.
Nice to see Bosa suiting up to watch the game again. This week he even watched from the line of scrimmage a few times.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
you guys will probably win Week 10 44-0
Detroit has to listen to talking meatheads experiencing mass psychogenic illness for the next 12 days
NFLN is going to be insufferable
Chargers have to play the 4 win Jets on MNF and fly back for a short week
'grats on beating the Bears back in the hunt eh only a game outta the WC
9. at Jets W
10. Lions W
11. at Packers W
12. Ravens L
13. at Patriots (racking up some mileage this year eh) W
14. Broncos W
15. at Raiders W
16. Bills L
17. at Broncos W
18. Chiefs L
10 - 7
Detroit has to listen to talking meatheads experiencing mass psychogenic illness for the next 12 days
NFLN is going to be insufferable
Chargers have to play the 4 win Jets on MNF and fly back for a short week
'grats on beating the Bears back in the hunt eh only a game outta the WC
9. at Jets W
10. Lions W
11. at Packers W
12. Ravens L
13. at Patriots (racking up some mileage this year eh) W
14. Broncos W
15. at Raiders W
16. Bills L
17. at Broncos W
18. Chiefs L
10 - 7
Tau837
Footballguy
I'll take the under on 10-7. There isn't a game in the remaining schedule they can't lose, although I think there are some they can't win without playing better than they have all season to date. I will be surprised if they beat the Lions.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Last place AFC west. Barf.
dmac37
Footballguy
I don't usually campaign for a guy to be fired but enough is enough. Or is it a fish rots from the head and cheap ownership will forever choke out this franchise....
Tau837
Footballguy
IMO Staley should have been fired after last season's playoff debacle. But I didn't expect it.
The next time I thought he should have been fired was after last week's game. But I didn't expect it.
One game later, I still think he should be fired, and I think there is an actual chance it could happen tomorrow.
He melted down in his post-game press conference to a previously unprecedented degree. He is openly feuding with the team's beat reporters and said he isn't speaking to the fans, implying he doesn't care about the fans. He doubled down (quadrupled down?) by saying he remains 100% confident in his defensive scheme and will continue to call defensive plays (and stop asking about it!!!!). These things have taken it to a new level, so I think there is a chance the Spanos family, yes even the Spanos family, could fire him this week.
The next time I thought he should have been fired was after last week's game. But I didn't expect it.
One game later, I still think he should be fired, and I think there is an actual chance it could happen tomorrow.
He melted down in his post-game press conference to a previously unprecedented degree. He is openly feuding with the team's beat reporters and said he isn't speaking to the fans, implying he doesn't care about the fans. He doubled down (quadrupled down?) by saying he remains 100% confident in his defensive scheme and will continue to call defensive plays (and stop asking about it!!!!). These things have taken it to a new level, so I think there is a chance the Spanos family, yes even the Spanos family, could fire him this week.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Has to go. Nobody gets less from this kind of talent
There's still hope for them. They need to fire him tomorrow for sure.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Any new head coach ideas that you would think would be a good fit?
Tau837
Footballguy
If he is fired today, I assume they will either promote Special Teams Coordinator Ryan Ficken or OC Kellen Moore to interim head coach. I would choose Ficken to let Moore focus 100% on the offense, but I suspect the team would go the other way.
After the season, I'd be interested in Harbaugh if he is ready for the NFL again, but I'm skeptical the Spanos family would (a) pay him what it would take and (b) give him the control he would require. Beyond him, not sure at this point, but it needs to be an offensive coach, not a "defensive" coach like Staley.
Tau837
Footballguy
I posted this a week ago, and there are some good exchanges in the comments in addition to what I wrote in the fan post: Going on the Record: It's Time to Fire Staley... Now
Tau837
Footballguy
Playing time:
- Games - Tranquill (9) > Kendricks (8)
- Snaps - Kendricks (445) > Tranquill (394)
- Defense (overall) - Kendricks (65.6) > Tranquill (57.3)
- Run defense - Kendricks (72.1) > Tranquill (40.5)
- Tackling - Kendricks (76.8) > Tranquill (62.0)
- Pass rush - Tranquill (81.4) > Kendricks (71.4)
- Coverage - Tranquill (61.3) > Kendricks (56.7)
I do not think having Tranquill instead of Kendricks would have made a meaningful difference for this Chargers defense.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
This is one of the worst Chargers seasons ever. Because there were expectations going into it. The seasons they were running guys like Tolliver, Friesz, Wheels, Moreno, etc. out there at QB, with little to no talent around them, you knew those teams were going to be bad from the outset, so it wasn't really frustrating in season when they sucked as expected. This team over the last few years has been demolished by criminal incompetence at every management and coaching level, with players giving them success in spite of all the mismanagement.
I can't believe Herbert held up as long as he did, and had as much success as he's had behind the trash offensive lines they've run out there at the start of his career. But that finally ended. I'd like to think they'll finally learn their lesson, but I'd say it's 50/50 at best at this point.
I can't believe Herbert held up as long as he did, and had as much success as he's had behind the trash offensive lines they've run out there at the start of his career. But that finally ended. I'd like to think they'll finally learn their lesson, but I'd say it's 50/50 at best at this point.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
I'll go a step further and say I think it will get worse before it gets better, short of a complete teardown. The team is already $45m over next year's cap. They went all in on spending this year, thinking that this was their window. All of us are excited about getting rid of Brandon Staley, but we also know they are only going to end up hiring the next Mike McCoy or Anthony Lynn to replace him.
Ever since Barry Hilton sold the franchise, it's been filled with great players who have only realized disappointment from giving their careers to this organization (Fouts, Tomlinson, Rivers, Gates, Kelcher, Big Hands, Seau, Doug Wilkerson, Leslie O'Neal, Macek and Hardwick, Keenan, Winslow, Weddle, Quentin Jammer, Gil Byrd, Benirschke and Carney and Kaeding, and Darren Bennett). I hate to admit it, but Archie Manning was right not to let his baby boy play for the Chargers. Is there a worse franchise in the NFL? Sure, you can look at win/loss and see that the Chargers are smack-dab in the middle and assume that there are lots of worse organizations, but honestly, only the Jets, Lions, and Cardinals probably belong in the conversation with the Chargers.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
goodbye Chargers entire coaching staff and front office, we hardly knew ya!
what a terrible team. what a terrible QB in the .500% Justin Herbert this guy is a total flop time to consider another QB for '24
what a terrible team. what a terrible QB in the .500% Justin Herbert this guy is a total flop time to consider another QB for '24
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Evidence of how snakebit this franchise is: Over a long time span, teams ought to average pretty close to .500 in single-possession (or one-score) games. Yet here's how our Chargers have performed since 2000:
2023: 3-5 (Staley)
2022: 7-5 (Staley)
2021: 5-5 (Staley)
2020: 5-7 (Lynn)
2019: 2-9 (Lynn)
2018: 6-1 (Lynn)
2017: 3-5 (Lynn)
2016: 4-9 (McCoy)
2015: 2-10 (McCoy)
2014: 5-2 (McCoy)
2013: 4-6 (McCoy)
2012: 2-5 (Turner)
2011: 3-5 (Turner)
2010: 2-5 (Turner)
2009: 8-1 (Turner)
2008: 2-8 (Turner)
2007: 2-2 (Turner)
2006: 4-3 (Schottenheimer)
2005: 4-5 (Schottenheimer)
2004: 6-3 (Schottenheimer)
2003: 3-5 (Schottenheimer)
2002: 5-4 (Schottenheimer)
2001: 1-8 (Riley)
2000: 1-7 (Riley)
In almost a quarter-century, the Chargers have only finished .500 or better in close games 9 times. They are 91-125 over that span for a .421 winning percentage. I wonder if there's any franchise that's worse in this category over this (or any 25 year) time span. I also doubt that 1970-1999 looks appreciably better.
2023: 3-5 (Staley)
2022: 7-5 (Staley)
2021: 5-5 (Staley)
2020: 5-7 (Lynn)
2019: 2-9 (Lynn)
2018: 6-1 (Lynn)
2017: 3-5 (Lynn)
2016: 4-9 (McCoy)
2015: 2-10 (McCoy)
2014: 5-2 (McCoy)
2013: 4-6 (McCoy)
2012: 2-5 (Turner)
2011: 3-5 (Turner)
2010: 2-5 (Turner)
2009: 8-1 (Turner)
2008: 2-8 (Turner)
2007: 2-2 (Turner)
2006: 4-3 (Schottenheimer)
2005: 4-5 (Schottenheimer)
2004: 6-3 (Schottenheimer)
2003: 3-5 (Schottenheimer)
2002: 5-4 (Schottenheimer)
2001: 1-8 (Riley)
2000: 1-7 (Riley)
In almost a quarter-century, the Chargers have only finished .500 or better in close games 9 times. They are 91-125 over that span for a .421 winning percentage. I wonder if there's any franchise that's worse in this category over this (or any 25 year) time span. I also doubt that 1970-1999 looks appreciably better.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
I saw an article on SI.com yesterday about the Chargers and how they basically wasted Herbert's rookie contract time period.
The part that sucks is that they honestly tried. They spent the money on a roster and thought they had the right coach, but their cheapness in not recognizing Staley was NOT the guy and firing him is their downfall.
Obviously an ownership issue, with you guys knowing that already. It's just a shame. I've always liked the Chargers because they've always been fun to watch as an outsider. Hope they can turn it around for Herbert's sake.
The part that sucks is that they honestly tried. They spent the money on a roster and thought they had the right coach, but their cheapness in not recognizing Staley was NOT the guy and firing him is their downfall.
Obviously an ownership issue, with you guys knowing that already. It's just a shame. I've always liked the Chargers because they've always been fun to watch as an outsider. Hope they can turn it around for Herbert's sake.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Other than ownership, head coaching has probably been this team's biggest weakness. The Chargers have only had three really good coaches - Sid Gilman (9+ years), Don Coryell (~8 yrs), and Bobby Ross (5 years). That leaves about 41 years of mostly crappy coaching. Some might argue Schottenheimer was a really good coach, but I don't think his 0-2 playoff record with the Chargers and his attempts to sabotage the franchise before his dismissal qualifies him.
Tau837
Footballguy
As Chargers head coach? I think that would be a shocking outcome given how much the offense struggled in various areas this season. I think Moore's stock will be lower this offseason than it was last year.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
This clown franchise needs to figure things out.
Yeah just curious as he was seen as a possible up and comer. Maybe he didn’t help that cause.
Tau837
Footballguy
Understandable. I also think the Chargers are unlikely to hire a 4th straight head coach with no NFL head coaching experience. It hasn't worked, and I expect them to look for someone with experience.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
If they're basing their decision on what has and hasn't worked for this franchise in the past, they might have to hire a soccer coach. Like, a reverse Ted Lasso thing.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Oof, what a terrible thought. Although, what available head coaches with experience would even be an acceptable option at this point? The list is short and unappealing. You need an offensive coach these days, Ben Johnson seems like an obvious fit. I would think that would bring more excitement versus a retread.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
I like the sound of Ben Johnson, but he's going to be in demand. Spanos isn't going to get into a bidding war with another owner. He'll hire the guy that other teams are talking to but aren't making offers for.
I'm not rooting for the Frank Reich hire, but he was a well-liked coordinator when he was in the building.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Harbaugh would seemingly be sought after, but that doesn’t sound like a Spano-type move (money). After watching Belichick post-Brady I would not be interested as a fan and I doubt he would be either working with this owner. I lost a lot of respect for Bill when he thought Matt Patricia was well suited to run the offense. His track record for personnel decisions on the offensive side is not great either. Chargers need to focus on getting Herbert to the next level and the new hire needs to have that as their focus.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
O.k., now that there's been a reckoning, I'm back. But I'm still cautiously pessimistic as the biggest problem remains - ownership.
I find it amusing to see people still try to criticize Herbert after watching these last couple of games. I hope it's becoming evident just how much he, and Rivers before him, disguised the myriad problems this team has had over the last 10 years or so.
Next season will be tough with the cap crunch coming, but if they can find competent folks to put in the front office and on the sidelines, they could become relevant in a couple of seasons because they have Herbert. Now put a good line in front of him.
The good news is, they're so deficient everywhere talent wise, they can and should trade down and go best player available for like all their picks. Apart from QB, K, P and punt/kick returner, they need improvements at all positions.
I find it amusing to see people still try to criticize Herbert after watching these last couple of games. I hope it's becoming evident just how much he, and Rivers before him, disguised the myriad problems this team has had over the last 10 years or so.
Next season will be tough with the cap crunch coming, but if they can find competent folks to put in the front office and on the sidelines, they could become relevant in a couple of seasons because they have Herbert. Now put a good line in front of him.
The good news is, they're so deficient everywhere talent wise, they can and should trade down and go best player available for like all their picks. Apart from QB, K, P and punt/kick returner, they need improvements at all positions.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Yeah, the Colts look most natural in them. My favorite are the Bengals white-on-whites.
I'm not a particular fan of the Chargers' all-whites, but I've got bigger grievances on my mind when it comes to this franchise.
Tau837
Footballguy
Other good news, if they hire a quality coaching staff (admittedly a big if based on track record), I think we will discover that some of the talent that remains on the team is better than it appeared, which will help offset some of the cap impact.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Yeah I was being a bit glib, seems like Gilman and James should be a decent safety tandem, Staley got the least out of them. Probably a few more guys like that on the roster.
Tau837
Footballguy
I wouldn't count on Gilman being re-signed. (I'd be fine with it at a cheap price.)
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
6th, according to ESPN, but with only a 18% chance of moving into the top five. There's virtually no way they can drop out of the top ten. (Unless, of course, you're the Chargers.)
Gr00vus
Footballguy
So you're telling me there's a chance.
Tau837
Footballguy
Gilman has played well this season, but I don't really agree. The Chargers are stuck with James for at least another year (maybe a good thing, maybe not), and he needs a reset back into playing strong safety instead of playing "jack of all trades, master of none" as Staley had him doing. Gilman is also best suited at strong safety and is thus redundant. What they lack is a safety who can take the deep part of the field in coverage, and neither James nor Gilman really fit that role particularly well, though both have had their moments. Also, letting him walk may lead to him contributing positively to the comp pick formula.
Don't get me wrong, if Gilman wants to sign a vet minimum contract to return, that's fine, but I don't see that happening.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I guess. Without looking at the numbers it seems like Gilman has outperformed James this year, and would probably cost less long term. They'll be in cap hell next year, what's a few million more in dead cap?
I'm just tired of seeing the mid tier guys the Chargers develop in house leave after their rookie deals while they retain all the high priced underperformers. Not that Nwosu or White or Tranquill etc. are pro bowlers, but when you keep letting decent in house players walk, you end up in this endless cycle of replacing them with other peoples cast offs, end of the road veterans etc. Doesn't seem like an effective way to build a team.
Tau837
Footballguy
It's not a few million in dead cap... if they cut James this offseason, it's ~$25M in dead cap, which actually costs them an extra ~$5M against the 2024 cap compared to just keeping him. If they trade him, it's marginally better -- ~$21M in dead cap and actually costs them ~$1.5M against the 2024 cap compared to just keeping him. Their out for James is after 2024.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
They almost Chargered their way into a worse draft spot last night, but Gabbert bailed them out with his mad scrambling.
Anyways, good news, I can reuse much of what I opened this thread with...
After another humiliating kick in the crotch for Charger fans in the form of a <disappointing full season> choke job, we move on into the baseless hope of another championshipless offseason.
We begin the offseason saying goodbye to <Staley> and <Telesco>, who oversaw a team that regressed on offense and defense and <another> regression in form of franchise quarterback Justin Herbert. I have no idea who the new <coach and GM> will be, can they be any worse than the folks <who oversaw the last several pathetic seasons>? I want to believe they can't be, but this is the Chargers - so it's probably a 50/50 proposition they get someone even worse.
@Just Win Baby has made us painfully aware of the dire salary cap situation - not much light at the end of that tunnel. Many overpaid underperforming veterans to disposition. Unless trades happen, which seems unlikely for these folks, we're looking at more dead cap to get them out. Would you cut them and intensify cap hell, and who would you do it to?
My real question is, besides myself, what Charger fans are left? And why?
Anyways, good news, I can reuse much of what I opened this thread with...
After another humiliating kick in the crotch for Charger fans in the form of a <disappointing full season> choke job, we move on into the baseless hope of another championshipless offseason.
We begin the offseason saying goodbye to <Staley> and <Telesco>, who oversaw a team that regressed on offense and defense and <another> regression in form of franchise quarterback Justin Herbert. I have no idea who the new <coach and GM> will be, can they be any worse than the folks <who oversaw the last several pathetic seasons>? I want to believe they can't be, but this is the Chargers - so it's probably a 50/50 proposition they get someone even worse.
@Just Win Baby has made us painfully aware of the dire salary cap situation - not much light at the end of that tunnel. Many overpaid underperforming veterans to disposition. Unless trades happen, which seems unlikely for these folks, we're looking at more dead cap to get them out. Would you cut them and intensify cap hell, and who would you do it to?
My real question is, besides myself, what Charger fans are left? And why?
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