*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (6 Viewers)

[parasaurolophus]

I can’t find a link to the study now, but a medical provider advocacy group tested a whole bunch of KN95 respirators and found a HUGE percentage of them were counterfeit and didn’t provide the required 95% filtration. Googling shows a whole bunch of other warnings about KN95s. Personally, I would not trust a KN95 respirator to be legit. Even N95s I would be careful on and do what you can to verify they are legit: Tips

ETA: Personal anecdote, but I’ve personally fit tested around 300-400 individuals over the last 6 months and I have had exactly one person pass on a KN95 respirator and I’m pretty sure he faked it because he wanted to wear the KN95 due to the ear loops. Using actual quantitative testing, every single KN95 has failed testing that I’ve personally conducted.

That is why you need one on the fda list. There are also some easy steps to verify it is a legit mask. Test for water resistance, test for flammability, candle, and cut it to verify 5 layers. You can also buy extra metal nose strips that you can attach yourself to make the nose seal better. It is 6 bucks for 100 of them. This is where I believe most of the allowed leakage tolerance happens. 

Eta: obviously you do this to only one mask in the batch. 

Eta: omg just looked at that link. Some of those mask designs are hilarious. I like the shark tail one

 

[MAC_32]

Maybe we focus on that message after we get through this then?   I think we are past the point were "well yeah, if you would have been exercising..."  is going to be a constructive way to get us out of the woods this winter.  

No. Tomorrow is a disease when it comes to one's wellness. It's code for It's not a priority. If you do not make the time to address your wellness now then you will be forced to make time for your illness later. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

No. Tomorrow is a disease when it comes to one's wellness. It's code for It's not a priority. If you do not make the time to address your wellness now then you will be forced to make time for your illness later. 

Ok we will just agree to disagree here then.  I get where you are coming from, I really do.  Just think it's a bit late now, and that message will get lost in the wash of stuff we could be doing in the next month to beat this as a country.  

 

[MAC_32]

Also, this is America.   A message of "eat healthy and exercise" goes over about as well as "wear a mask when entering this building".   We just don't like being told what to do.  

Correct, which is why it'd be irrational for my decision making to be influenced by any of them. They made their bed. They can sleep in it. 

 

[MAC_32]

Ok we will just agree to disagree here then.  I get where you are coming from, I really do.  Just think it's a bit late now, and that message will get lost in the wash of stuff we could be doing in the next month to beat this as a country.  

Outside of staying away from other humans/masks it is the single best thing any person could be doing and that's been the case from the beginning.

 

[KarmaPolice]

That is why you need one on the fda list. There are also some easy steps to verify it is a legit mask. Test for water resistance, test for flammability, candle, and cut it to verify 5 layers. You can also buy extra metal nose strips that you can attach yourself to make the nose seal better. It is 6 bucks for 100 of them. This is where I believe most of the allowed leakage tolerance happens. 

Honestly, I think you are answering your own question as to why people are using cloth masks instead of the ones you are suggesting.   

I don't think Joe Public is combing the web to find FDA approved masks and/or testing them for water resistance and flammability.  

 

[Buffaloes]

The President said it on TV, therefore it must be true.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/29/number-of-suicides-in-japan-over-month-span-exceed-deaths-from-covid-19/

Experts say the pandemic has exacerbated mental health issues due to prolonged lockdowns, isolation from family members, unemployment and other financial concerns, and a lack of school structure.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Correct, which is why it'd be irrational for my decision making to be influenced by any of them. They made their bed. They can sleep in it. 

I find these types of posts lacking empathy and that's just not my way of thinking about this.    It's awesome that you have the time, money, and access to stay in great health and shape, but that's not the case for everybody.  

 

[MAC_32]

I find these types of posts lacking empathy and that's just not my way of thinking about this.    It's awesome that you have the time, money, and access to stay in great health and shape, but that's not the case for everybody.  

I don't do feelings. I do facts. Not everyone has access to healthy foods but everyone has time, a place to exercise, and excuses. Relatively good health is within the control of most humans. Americans don't prioritize it and that's one of many reasons this has gone as badly as it has. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

Honestly, I think you are answering your own question as to why people are using cloth masks instead of the ones you are suggesting.   

I don't think Joe Public is combing the web to find FDA approved masks and/or testing them for water resistance and flammability.  

They dont have to test them. That is for people that are paranoid that even though the manufacturer is on the list and they bought it from a reputable seller but still worry about counterfeits. 

The list is readily available and has been posted in this thread previously. I wasnt asking joe public, I was asking people in this thread. 

 

[trader jake]

1,000 pages...we did it? 

Vaccine me, and everyone else, as soon as possible.  Thanks.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I don't do feelings. I do facts. Not everyone has access to healthy foods but everyone has time, a place to exercise, and excuses. Relatively good health is within the control of most humans. Americans don't prioritize it and that's one of many reasons this has gone as badly as it has. 

Again, we agree to disagree.   

Time to go back to the music threads as my anger level starts to rise a bit  

 

[matuski]

I find these types of posts lacking empathy and that's just not my way of thinking about this.    It's awesome that you have the time, money, and access to stay in great health and shape, but that's not the case for everybody.  

Nobody makes us get fat, smoke, vape, drink sodas, eat tex mex - now we get to put those who don't down for lacking empathy?

Where is the "empathy" for others when we scarf down that 4th taco?

 

[MAC_32]

Again, we agree to disagree.   

Time to go back to the music threads as my anger level starts to rise a bit  

I create a 3x6' area in my bedroom to strength train. When I'm not doing that I'm out for a run. Everyone has time and can create their own space. They choose to use it in a different manner. Decisions have consequences. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

https://nypost.com/2020/11/29/number-of-suicides-in-japan-over-month-span-exceed-deaths-from-covid-19/

I don’t disagree that isolation is a serious issue and negative consequence. Not sure that Japan should be looked at as a typical case though. Suicides are high there generally anyway and they really are experiencing a total breakdown of their society when it comes to personal connections. Isolation and loneliness has been off the charts there for awhile.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Nobody makes us get fat, smoke, vape, drink sodas, eat tex mex - now we get to put those who don't down for lacking empathy?

Where is the "empathy" for others when we scarf down that 4th taco?

This is one of the things I have found super interesting. I have seen so many doctors on social media complain about people going to restaurants and bars and pretending as if this is the first time they treated a patient that didnt follow the rules. 

Not saying going to restaurants or bars is good, just saying it is odd to act shocked about something they literally see every day. 

 

[CR69]

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

 

[matuski]

I don’t disagree that isolation is a serious issue and negative consequence. Not sure that Japan should be looked at as a typical case though. Suicides are high there generally anyway and they really are experiencing a total breakdown of their society when it comes to personal connections. Isolation and loneliness has been off the charts there for awhile.

It is a counterpoint to the "data" we have shoveled on us 24/7.

Some people are going to interpret the risk differently.  Those with elderly/sickly family members probably have more buy in.  Those without that and young children might value their children's growth and education more, and buy in less.  A young dude in college is invincible.  An old widow is lonely.

Not everyone refusing to bubble is anti data/science.  Not everyone bubbling is paranoid.

We all approach this in our own way - and the worst possible thing that can happen here is the vocal extremes taking over like they do in politics.  Of course, that is what happened from the start.

 

[MAC_32]

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

An $0.11 banana is a crippling line item on the monthly budget. 

 

[matuski]

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

What now?  The cheapest food items I buy are fruits and veggies.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I create a 3x6' area in my bedroom to strength train. When I'm not doing that I'm out for a run. Everyone has time and can create their own space. They choose to use it in a different manner. Decisions have consequences. 

This is akin to the posts in the PSF that are in line with "I was able to do x, why can't everybody". 

You claim that you deal with "facts" not feelings, but continue to post that "everyone" can do this.  Multiple physical and mental health issues aside from this not being true, you can't think of other reasons why people wouldn't have time or money to do a proper level of exercise? 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Not well reasoned according to you.  How about we listen to and respect other opinions?

Well, it’s not just me. The overwhelming majority of infectious disease clinicians and public health officials around the world aren’t advocating just isolating vulnerable populations. One notable group of contrarian “experts” wrote the Great Barrington Declaration, but that policy hasn’t been adopted successfully anywhere, for reasons I summarized here.

Given the US is leading the world in covid cases and deaths already, what makes you think a less restrictive policy will result in better outcomes? What level of cases/deaths would cause you to re-evaluate your stance? 

 

[MAC_32]

This is akin to the posts in the PSF that are in line with "I was able to do x, why can't everybody". 

You claim that you deal with "facts" not feelings, but continue to post that "everyone" can do this.  Multiple physical and mental health issues aside from this not being true, you can't think of other reasons why people wouldn't have time or money to do a proper level of exercise? 

The average person, no. Of course there are exceptions. That's why I was sure to write it's within the control of most humans. 

 

[CR69]

An $0.11 banana is a crippling line item on the monthly budget. 

What now?  The cheapest food items I buy are fruits and veggies.

It takes time to cook food from scratch. Time a lot of people don’t have. 

 

[MAC_32]

It takes time to cook food from scratch. Time a lot of people don’t have. 

I eat my bananas raw. Have I been doing it wrong. 

 

[beer 30]

Also, this is America.   A message of "eat healthy and exercise" goes over about as well as "wear a mask when entering this building".   We just don't like being told what to do.  

I think the message would carry more weight (no pun intended) during or on the heals of a world wide pandemic that specifically targets overweight individuals. If you are not going to convince people now, you’re not going to convince them.

Around me, I see so many more people out walking now than ever before. Our Greenway had so many new members they had to change up who could go on what days because they couldn’t accommodate them all. I’ve read story after story about people that have lost 10, 20, 50lbs while on lockdown. It won’t take a helluva lot for this to turn from a snowball into an avalanche if public officials actually promoted a healthy lifestyle.

I don't do feelings.

#fact

 

[Pipes]

Obesity is also highly correlated to poverty. Being healthy is expensive. And no, people working multiple jobs don’t have the time to cook good food from scratch or exercise. The lack of empathy in here from some of you is astonishing. 

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

 

[MAC_32]

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

Your food decisions are either feeding disease or fighting it. 

 

[CR69]

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/

In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.

 

[DallasDMac]

How dare people live to grow old and then have the audacity to leave their homes! They obviously deserve to die.

 

[facook]

Congrats on 1000 pages guys.

Good to see the disgusting level of self-righteousness from some has not left this thread.  See you at 2000.

 

[[icon]]

Statistics indicate a certain percentage of folks in this thread will get this disease. Another percentage will have a rough go of it, another percentage will be hospitalized, another percentage will have lasting damage or die. 
 

It sucks that anyone has to suffer, but I can't be the only one mentally putting some posters in buckets they belong in.  

 

[Pipes]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/

In contrast to international trends, people in America who live in the most poverty-dense counties are those most prone to obesity (Fig. 1A). Counties with poverty rates of >35% have obesity rates 145% greater than wealthy counties.

It doesn’t have to be expensive to eat relatively healthy.  It costs nothing to go for a walk either.

 

[CR69]

It doesn’t have to be expensive to eat relatively healthy.  It costs nothing to go for a walk either.

And for someone working multiple jobs to get by, where do they find this extra time to go for a walk?

 Poverty and obesity are correlated. It’s a fact. I’m done in here until all of you PSF trolls go crawl back under your rocks. 

 

[Pipes]

And for someone working multiple jobs to get by, where do they find this extra time to go for a walk?

 Poverty and obesity are correlated. It’s a fact. I’m done in here until all of you PSF trolls go crawl back under your rocks. 

See ya.  Suggesting people take responsibility for their own health is being a PSF troll.  Got it.  Always someone else’s fault for our problems.

 

[DallasDMac]

Good to see the disgusting level of self-righteousness centeredness from some has not left this thread.  See you at 2000.

Two sides to every argument.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I eat my bananas raw. Have I been doing it wrong. 

Are you claiming that people could get all their calories and be healthy by eating bananas? 

Yeah, bananas and carrots are pretty cheap.   I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, but every time we have made a conscious effort to eat healthier as a family, our food bill has gone up.  Decent meat, bread, whatever as a whole it costs more, takes time and effort to make, and goes bad quicker.   Plus it requires me to have transporation and access to a decent store.   

I would just about guarantee that I could feed my family way cheaper if we did McDonalds, mac and cheese, ramen, frozen Totinos, chips, and soda/Kool-aid than anything remotely healthy for us. 

 

[the rover]

.

 

[KarmaPolice]

It doesn’t have to be expensive to eat relatively healthy.  It costs nothing to go for a walk either.

Does it require a safe neighborhood or transportation to a safe place to walk? 

 

[the rover]

For some yes but for most it’s just an excuse.  The diet of an average American is poor at best.  Way too much sugar and processed foods.  It’s cheaper to make say a turkey sandwich and a grab a piece of fruit as opposed to going to McDonalds for lunch and much healthier too.  

Processed turkey causes cancer and most bread in the US is made with HFCS, which contributes to obesity and hypertension.  I don’t want to contribute taxes for your cancer treatments, because it inconveniences me.  Stop eating turkey.

 

[Pipes]

Yeah let’s keep making excuses for everyone.  Personal responsibility out the window such a great country we live in.

 

[the rover]

Yeah let’s keep making excuses for everyone.  Personal responsibility out the window such a great country we live in.

Or we could act with personal responsibility by living with small inconveniences to keep vulnerable people safe.  

 

[Pipes]

Processed turkey causes cancer and most bread in the US is made with HFCS, which contributes to obesity and hypertension.  I don’t want to contribute taxes for your cancer treatments, because it inconveniences me.  Stop eating turkey.

Not funny the first time you posted this.  I said relatively healthy and was comparing calories vs a McDonalds value meal.  Anyways I’m out since this is the COVID thread.

 

[the rover]

Not funny the first time you posted this.  I said relatively healthy and was comparing calories vs a McDonalds value meal.  Anyways I’m out since this is the COVID thread.

Thanks!

 

[Pipes]

Or we could act with personal responsibility by living with small inconveniences to keep vulnerable people safe.  

Agreed.  Nowhere did I say otherwise.  I’m just agreeing with other posters there is nothing wrong with promoting people to get in better shape to help fight this.  That’s just a small piece of the puzzle to fighting COVID along with masks, social distancing etc

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah let’s keep making excuses for everyone.  Personal responsibility out the window such a great country we live in.

I am finding this a bit tiring too, but again - different world views.    Throwing out "personal responsibility" as a blanket statement fails to take into consideration people's myriad of lives and situations.  

I am all for talking about that more if we are talking 2 people in the exact same neighborhood, same income, same family dynamic, same mental health, etc..     IMO that doesn't apply quite so well if we are talking about my situation vs. somebody in poverty in an unsafe neighborhood.   

 

[MAC_32]

Are you claiming that people could get all their calories and be healthy by eating bananas? 

Yeah, bananas and carrots are pretty cheap.   I guess maybe I am doing it wrong, but every time we have made a conscious effort to eat healthier as a family, our food bill has gone up.  Decent meat, bread, whatever as a whole it costs more, takes time and effort to make, and goes bad quicker.   Plus it requires me to have transporation and access to a decent store.   

I would just about guarantee that I could feed my family way cheaper if we did McDonalds, mac and cheese, ramen, frozen Totinos, chips, and soda/Kool-aid than anything remotely healthy for us. 

If you'd really like to know how to eat healthy on a budget I will take the time to provide a cohesive answer (not tonight), but I'm not going to do it if I am wasting my time. We were quite poor for a period many years ago and figuring this out was one thing I did to try to weather the storm. A lot of the habits we developed during that time stuck, including running. 

 

[the rover]

Agreed.  Nowhere did I say otherwise.  I’m just agreeing with other posters there is nothing wrong with promoting people to get in better shape to help fight this.  That’s just a small piece of the puzzle to fighting COVID along with masks, social distancing etc

Then you aren’t agreeing with the other posters that many people in here have problems with.  They want to isolate the vulnerable because they don’t recognize the collective danger presented by asymptomatic carriers.  As long as they perceive themselves as young and healthy, they shouldn’t be limited in their activities, because it’s other peoples’ problems.  This is an ignorant and selfish way to think and act.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not funny the first time you posted this.  I said relatively healthy and was comparing calories vs a McDonalds value meal.  Anyways I’m out since this is the COVID thread.

Again, relative.  We talking cheaper white bread, or a healthier whole wheat bread?   Some nasty cheap cold cuts or a little better meat from a local store?    Most the the time healthier = more expensive when we are talking whole meals and total caloric intake for a day.  

 

[MTskibum]

Or we could act with personal responsibility by living with small inconveniences to keep vulnerable people safe.  

I agree with this, but I also think that americans could do a better job of exercising and eating healthy.

TV watching goes up as income goes down. There is plenty of time for the vast majority of Americans to exercise. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191558/average-daily-time-spent-on-watching-television-in-the-us-by-income/

Eating healthier does not need to be expensive either. I eat a bagged salad most days for lunch and that is only a few bucks.

Even eating healthy for 1 meal a day can make a difference.