*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (12 Viewers)

[jobarules]

And this is all just one tiny part of the Covid-19 vaccination picture. The article basically says, "There's this one really rare, relatively mild side effect of the vaccine KNOWN AS OF NOW- that is actually less rare and less mild when you actually get Covid - and we've figured out a tweak to make the risk/benefit regarding this side effect fall even more favorably towards vaccination."  I guess I just find it odd that this would be your "Exhibit A" why one should wait to vaccinate.  I mean, if it's so rare that it's insignificant, then why use it as evidence for your decision process?  But if it's significant enough to make it part of your decision, why use it as evidence to make the decision that is worse in this regard?

IFYP

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

IFYP

Sure, but you could say that about the virus itself, too.

I think the difference for most folks is getting vaccinated is something you choose to do; getting the virus is something that happens to you. Even if the risks are greater for the virus than for the vaccine, people will still naturally be more hesitant about the vaccine. Psychology is weird.

 

[jhib]

IFYP

Which just goes back to my earlier point.  The news was positive about the vaccine and the vaccination process, but because it suggested that we don't know 100% about everything related to both Covid-19 and the vaccine (which is something that nobody claims otherwise), some people will ignore the actual 'new' part of the news and take the positive news as negative.

 

[jhib]

Why is it that all the vaccine's unforeseen long-term side effects are just assumed to be negative?

I can't wait until I get some super power five years down the road from my vaccination and all of the vaccine hesitant people realize they have to wait at least another five years to get in on the action. 

 

[ZADO]

Not hardly. Can't make improvements if nothing has been learned. Refining knowledge today doesn't mean that yesterday was a state of ignorance.

Hence the years long human clinical trials normally done , these trials are happening real time just 2 years in

 

[Doug B]

Hence the years long human clinical trials normally done , these trials are happening real time just 2 years in

This is not remarkable, though.

Even after years-long trials of older vaccines -- an even after those older vaccines were widely distributed -- refinements continued to be made. For instance, the polio vaccine given to American children today is not the Salk polio vaccine (1955) or the trivalent Sabin vaccine (1961), but a multivalent vaccine called Pediarix that was licensed in 2002.

 

[gianmarco]

This is not remarkable, though.

Even after years-long trials of older vaccines -- an even after those older vaccines were widely distributed -- refinements continued to be made. For instance, the polio vaccine given to American children today is not the Salk polio vaccine (1955) or the trivalent Sabin vaccine (1961), but a multivalent vaccine called Pediarix that was licensed in 2002.

Not to mention, we've never had any long term/late developing side effects from vaccines. Ever. Nor would there be a reason for it. Vaccines remain in the body for a very short period of time. There's not really a plausible mechanism to cause issues in the future. Any side effects happen in the short term.

Why the concern that will suddenly change with this vaccine? It doesn't really make much sense. 

On the flipside, we know viruses definitely cause issues long term. 

The risk equations people are creating with these vaccines defy numerical sense.

 

[ZADO]

Not to mention, we've never had any long term/late developing side effects from vaccines. Ever. Nor would there be a reason for it. Vaccines remain in the body for a very short period of time. There's not really a plausible mechanism to cause issues in the future. Any side effects happen in the short term.

Why the concern that will suddenly change with this vaccine? It doesn't really make much sense. 

On the flipside, we know viruses definitely cause issues long term. 

The risk equations people are creating with these vaccines defy numerical sense.

PEG has never been used before in an approved vaccine, but it is found in many drugs that have occasionally triggered anaphylaxis—a potentially life-threatening reaction that can cause rashes, a plummeting blood pressure, shortness of breath, and a fast heartbeat. Some allergists and immunologists believe a small number of people previously exposed to PEG may have high levels of antibodies against PEG, putting them at risk of an anaphylactic reaction to the vaccine.

 

[gianmarco]

PEG has never been used before in an approved vaccine, but it is found in many drugs that have occasionally triggered anaphylaxis—a potentially life-threatening reaction that can cause rashes, a plummeting blood pressure, shortness of breath, and a fast heartbeat. Some allergists and immunologists believe a small number of people previously exposed to PEG may have high levels of antibodies against PEG, putting them at risk of an anaphylactic reaction to the vaccine.

Allergic reactions to vaccines are a real thing. It's why it's asked if you've ever had an allergic reaction to one in the past. It's also why they ask you to stay 15-30 minutes after receiving the vaccine to be watched and treated if you do develop symptoms.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my post having side effects in the future. In fact, it goes along with what I posted. If you're going to have an issue with the vaccine, it'll be in the short term period after getting it. Not 2+ years afterward. 

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Has there been any study done as to the effects of covid on those who acquired it? Hundreds of Millions have acquired tbis. There should be some data. 

Eg what percentage had

No symptoms whatsoever

Mild Symptoms = to a cold

Moderate Symptoms = requiring mild medical treatment

Long Covid

Hospitlization

Intensive Care

Ventilator

Death

 

[ZADO]

Allergic reactions to vaccines are a real thing. It's why it's asked if you've ever had an allergic reaction to one in the past. It's also why they ask you to stay 15-30 minutes after receiving the vaccine to be watched and treated if you do develop symptoms.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my post having side effects in the future. In fact, it goes along with what I posted. If you're going to have an issue with the vaccine, it'll be in the short term period after getting it. Not 2+ years afterward. 

and it goes with my point i made at another time that we are the real time human trials and will remain that until at least 2024 and well beyond . 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Why is it that all the vaccine's unforeseen long-term side effects are just assumed to be negative?

I can't wait until I get some super power five years down the road from my vaccination and all of the vaccine hesitant people realize they have to wait at least another five years to get in on the action. 

More importantly, why is it assumed the long-term effects are going to be worse than getting the actual virus, and the ramifications of that long-term?      Or that this is the vaccine that is magically going to have all these horrible side effects vs. the dozens of others people use.  

 

[matuski]

Why is it that all the vaccine's unforeseen long-term side effects are just assumed to be negative?

I can't wait until I get some super power five years down the road from my vaccination and all of the vaccine hesitant people realize they have to wait at least another five years to get in on the action. 

I think it is logical to expect that the upside, in the short term - is not getting or lessening the syptoms of getting COVID.

Beyond that, given that there are indeed side effects... over the longterm I would expect more to become evident.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I guess. I hope I don’t ever acquire natural immunity. I also question just how effective it is. I don’t know a whole lot of unvaccinated people, but a good number of the ones I do know have had Covid multiple times

I posted an article a bazillion pages ago delineating how legacy coronaviruses evade our immune response, causing reinfection. Thankfully, we all can tolerate multiple colds in our lifetime. Covid ain’t there yet, so I’ll take the vaccine, thanks.

 

[matuski]

I posted an article a bazillion pages ago delineating how legacy coronaviruses evade our immune response, causing reinfection. Thankfully, we all can tolerate multiple colds in our lifetime. Covid ain’t there yet, so I’ll take the vaccine, thanks.

Did that vaccine prevent infection or even reinfecton?  Asking for the baziliion of us that got vaccinated and still got COVID.. twice.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

YLE is back  

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/two-week-recap-denmark-ba2-and-boosters

• she touches on the strategy that Denmark is using ("let er rip in the middle of Omicron wave" )
  
• comparing Denmark to the US (basically: don't, we aren't nearly as vaccinated as they are)
  
• excess deaths the real pandemic scoring system  :(  
  
• BA2 (stealth Omicron) variant 
  
• booster discussion
  

 

[belljr]

I guess good news - SA doesnt seem to be concerned with the BA2

 

[The Commish]

Hence the years long human clinical trials normally done , these trials are happening real time just 2 years in

This is not remarkable, though.

Even after years-long trials of older vaccines -- an even after those older vaccines were widely distributed -- refinements continued to be made. For instance, the polio vaccine given to American children today is not the Salk polio vaccine (1955) or the trivalent Sabin vaccine (1961), but a multivalent vaccine called Pediarix that was licensed in 2002.

Length of trial is safely diminished as the size of the trial pool increases.  We have literally millions of people well over a year into a trial.  The "length" argument is incredibly flawed to the point of just wrong at this point.

 

[Gally]

Has there been any study done as to the effects of covid on those who acquired it? Hundreds of Millions have acquired tbis. There should be some data. 

Eg what percentage had

No symptoms whatsoever

Mild Symptoms = to a cold

Moderate Symptoms = requiring mild medical treatment

Long Covid

Hospitlization

Intensive Care

Ventilator

Death

I think the hard part with getting good numbers for this is because I am sure there are a ton of "no symptoms whatsoever" people that never got tested or even knew they had the virus.  So much of the data wouldn't be accurate on that side of things.  I would think the only somewhat accurate data would be for the "Moderate Symptoms = requiring medical treatment" and below.  Anything above that is going to be sketchy because there is not way to know those numbers accurately.

 

[belljr]

Our Ro is slightly rising again (still well under 1) but case and positivity % still dropping

Wonder if this is a slight B2 wave at the tail end .....  we are at about 19 /100k and 3% positive

 

[ZADO]

Length of trial is safely diminished as the size of the trial pool increases.  We have literally millions of people well over a year into a trial.  The "length" argument is incredibly flawed to the point of just wrong at this point.

So they have included placebos in these millions of trials? 

Participants and most of the study investigators do not know who has received the vaccine and who received the placebo. Participants are then followed to see how many in each group get the disease. Assessing short- and long-term safety is also a major goal of phase 3 trials.

I`m not arguing ,i`m asking

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

I think the hard part with getting good numbers for this is because I am sure there are a ton of "no symptoms whatsoever" people that never got tested or even knew they had the virus.  So much of the data wouldn't be accurate on that side of things.  I would think the only somewhat accurate data would be for the "Moderate Symptoms = requiring medical treatment" and below.  Anything above that is going to be sketchy because there is not way to know those numbers accurately.

I do understand that the a lot of people have had this and not known. There are also many people who have HAD to get tested for whatever reason, tested positive and had no symptoms. Thats what im trying to see if there are numbers. I mean if eg

50% have no symptoms, 25% have mild cold like symptoms, 15% have moderate symptoms etc.

Obviously the 50% would be even higher with those not testing. 

I mean it could be 20% no symptoms, 60% mild symptoms etc.....surely there has to be some data based on the hundreds of millions of positive tests. 

 

[Jackstraw]

Political Theater

You have to be tested and negative to enter the White House grounds.

Everyone at Biden's address today masked up even though all states but Hawaii have eliminated the mask mandate or have a date set to eliminate it.

Biden doesn't have to wear a mask when he's talking but all the reporters have to when they are talking, asking questions.

I'm betting the vaccination and boosted rate for this group is somewhere around 100%.

Modeling responsible behavior. Those bastards. 

 

[Gally]

I do understand that the a lot of people have had this and not known. There are also many people who have HAD to get tested for whatever reason, tested positive and had no symptoms. Thats what im trying to see if there are numbers. I mean if eg

50% have no symptoms, 25% have mild cold like symptoms, 15% have moderate symptoms etc.

Obviously the 50% would be even higher with those not testing. 

I mean it could be 20% no symptoms, 60% mild symptoms etc.....surely there has to be some data based on the hundreds of millions of positive tests. 

But what good are those numbers?  That was my point.  If there is a bunch of people with no symptoms or symptoms like a common cold nobody will every know the true percentages.  What good is bad data?  It has no real meaning.

 

[matuski]

Modeling responsible behavior. 

At this point, not remotely - just a pretense they have to keep up after 2 years of using masks as a virtue signal.  

 

[The Commish]

So they have included placebos in these millions of trials? 

Participants and most of the study investigators do not know who has received the vaccine and who received the placebo. Participants are then followed to see how many in each group get the disease. Assessing short- and long-term safety is also a major goal of phase 3 trials.

I`m not arguing ,i`m asking

This is one huge trial we're in the midst of, so yes...to the topic, it's irrelevant as to whether you know you have the vaccine or not.  In old school studies, the concern of ingredient impact was always really high and warranted a little time (not nearly as much as was allotted....but some for sure). but that timeline can also be compressed the more people (all with different immune systems) you get to sign up.

 

[Dickies]

Political Theater

You have to be tested and negative to enter the White House grounds.

Everyone at Biden's address today masked up even though all states but Hawaii have eliminated the mask mandate or have a date set to eliminate it.

Biden doesn't have to wear a mask when he's talking but all the reporters have to when they are talking, asking questions.

I'm betting the vaccination and boosted rate for this group is somewhere around 100%.

What's the issue here?

 

[gianmarco]

What's the issue here?

These last posts are in the wrong forum.

 

[Dickies]

One thing I find interesting here in CA is that the mask mandate was lifted for the vaccinated, yet in stores around here I'd say about 80% of the people are still masking up.  The people on my SM celebrating the removal of the mask mandate are all unvaccinated.... who this isn't supposed to apply to.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What's the issue here?

Probably that our mitigation protocols have become sort of irrational.  People who are well protected thanks to vaccination are acting as if they're in danger, and people who are in danger are acting as if they're well protected.  It's kind of dumb that I can make a pretty good prediction about who you voted for in the last election based on which of these groups you belong to, but that's what's driving a lot of peoples' behavior at this point.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

One thing I find interesting here in CA is that the mask mandate was lifted for the vaccinated, yet in stores around here I'd say about 80% of the people are still masking up.  The people on my SM celebrating the removal of the mask mandate are all unvaccinated.... who this isn't supposed to apply to.

I see myself masking in public places and public transit regardless of mandates for a while, depending on transmission rates.  So what?

 

[Gally]

One thing I find interesting here in CA is that the mask mandate was lifted for the vaccinated, yet in stores around here I'd say about 80% of the people are still masking up.  The people on my SM celebrating the removal of the mask mandate are all unvaccinated.... who this isn't supposed to apply to.

I would also guess that those that got vaccinated likely don't mind the inconvenience of the mask for short durations so they keep using them.  Where the unvaccinated don't want any masks so if the mandate is lifted they don't care if it is for only vaccinated.  Then the circle continues...

 

[Gally]

Probably that our mitigation protocols have become sort of irrational.  People who are well protected thanks to vaccination are acting as if they're in danger, and people who are in danger are acting as if they're well protected.  It's kind of dumb that I can make a pretty good prediction about who you voted for in the last election based on which of these groups you belong to, but that's what's driving a lot of peoples' behavior at this point.  

One of the biggest issues with this whole thing is that it became political right from the start.  That was probably the biggest issue and still is.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I would also guess that those that got vaccinated likely don't mind the inconvenience of the mask for short durations so they keep using them.  Where the unvaccinated don't want any masks so if the mandate is lifted they don't care if it is for only vaccinated.  Then the circle continues...

Right.  It's no big deal if I have to wear a mask in a store or on a train.  Like, who cares?

 

[belljr]

I'm fully vaccinated and boosted. Unless a place specifically mandates masks I don't wear them anymore.

 

[jobarules]

I'm fully vaccinated and boosted. Unless a place specifically mandates masks I don't wear them anymore.

Me neither. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Probably that our mitigation protocols have become sort of irrational.  People who are well protected thanks to vaccination are acting as if they're in danger, and people who are in danger are acting as if they're well protected.  It's kind of dumb that I can make a pretty good prediction about who you voted for in the last election based on which of these groups you belong to, but that's what's driving a lot of peoples' behavior at this point.  

Yep.   I just spent 4 days in Bermuda for work. Had to get tested twice to arrive there — once pre flight, once on the island.  Had to be fully vaccinated to fly and get through border patrol.  Had to wear masks indoors all over the place — except once we sat down at a table with a cup of coffee or food, we could all have our masks off.  In the office, we wore masks in common areas but had 12 people in a conference room unmasked.  
 

I’m still not clear on how effective it was to mask up in those circumstances, but I’d be glad to make a guess.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Right.  It's no big deal if I have to wear a mask in a store or on a train.  Like, who cares?

It’s no big deal to carry around a form of ID everywhere you go….or to show it to random people a couple times a day.  Like, who cares?

 

[KarmaPolice]

It’s no big deal to carry around a form of ID everywhere you go….or to show it to random people a couple times a day.  Like, who cares?

You talking buying booze/weed, going to the bank, etc ?  You are right, it's not a big deal.  

 

[Alex P Keaton]

You talking buying booze/weed, going to the bank, etc ?  You are right, it's not a big deal.  

I’m talking about entering any business.  Or any indoor public location.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Me neither. 

People will mask up forever, its their choice.  If you wear a mask outside because of covid, you are misinformed.

 

[Capella]

I'm fully vaccinated and boosted. Unless a place specifically mandates masks I don't wear them anymore.

I will wear one on any kind of Public transportation. Not just bc of covid but bc people are disgusting and I don’t mind it in short spurts. Should’ve been doing it years ago. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I will wear one on any kind of Public transportation. Not just bc of covid but bc people are disgusting and I don’t mind it in short spurts. Should’ve been doing it years ago. 

Right before covid I got a bad flu (like I was literally only back in the office 2 days before shutdown) because I literally felt the guy behind me on the train sneeze and cough on the back of my head. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Been teaching high school with a mask on all year, Maryland just removed the school mask mandate yesterday. 
 

I have a feeling the county I’m teaching in will still keep the mask requirement for a few more weeks though.  

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I see myself masking in public places and public transit regardless of mandates for a while, depending on transmission rates.  So what?

Ditto.  I’ll likely continue it for a long while on air travel for sure even after the pandemic.  

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I will wear one on any kind of Public transportation. Not just bc of covid but bc people are disgusting and I don’t mind it in short spurts. Should’ve been doing it years ago. 

Honestly i always joked when i saw people before the pandemic with masks in say the airport but your right.  Now i totally get it and likely will join them. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I’m talking about entering any business.  Or any indoor public location.

OK.  I already always have my license and I already show it to random people.  I had to whip it out last night to buy a drink at the restaurant and get in a concert.    Is there some slippery slope argument that I am missing? 

 

[James Daulton]

Our hospitals are still low on covid but jammed packed with other patients.  The one area that we're not crushed is the ICU with unvaccinated covid patients.  That's a very very good thing.

We do need a break from the crush of patients, but at least we're able to bill surgeries again.  Although the average cost of nursing labor has gone up 25% since last year so we're still losing money. 

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Pretty interesting read on long Covid research

Nat Geo: As long COVID cases grow, clues emerge about who is most at risk

 

[belljr]

I will wear one on any kind of Public transportation. Not just bc of covid but bc people are disgusting and I don’t mind it in short spurts. Should’ve been doing it years ago. 

I don't take public transportation very often... 

I definitely can see that.  Airplane maybe but I don't not wear one out of some statement, I just don't think of it most of the time now.  

I'm not running back to the house when I realize my mask is sitting on the counter