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Official Cowboys Offseason Thread. 4th pick overall (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bankerguy
- Start date
bostonfred
Footballguy
I think what they've done is bought insurance on getting scooped for the young rb they like later in the draft. If they had their sights set on Henry and someone called them at pick 32 and said hey I've been getting calls all day for this pick and they all want Henry, what's the fallback plan? Bend over and pay big to move up 3 spots so you don't get scooped by a possibly fictitious mystery buyer? Tale a guy you don't like as much? Risk another season with mcfadden and nobody? They needed a viable plan b.
Now if the guy they really like is Dixon and they plan to take him in the third they don't have to panic when he goes 2.28. They can just take the next guy down on their list, or wait another round and develop a guy, or get a situational guy who can play the Dunbar role, or whatever they think is best
Patrick Robinson signed with the Colts.
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/55578/Colts-agree-to-terms-with-free-agent-CB-Patrick-Robinson/Default.aspx
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/55578/Colts-agree-to-terms-with-free-agent-CB-Patrick-Robinson/Default.aspx
Like everyone in the top 4 picks , I think Dallas wants to trade down.Bankerguy said:
Dallas is holding private workouts with the top three QBs. They went to Orlando yesterday to work out Lynch. I think it's a smoke screen to try and convince other teams to consider trading for their pick.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
It's a quiet Good Friday Morning. I have a coffee in hand and I have a rare few minutes to type some of my thoughts on the draft.
In my opinion the first 3 picks are:
1. Tunsil
2. Wentz-This a lock for me, done deal.
3. Ramsey
Maybe not that exact order, you could flip Tunsil and Ramsey, but I would wager a guess saying there is an 80-85% chance that these are the first three picks in front of us. The only way it differs imo is if a another team covets Goff and is convinced Dallas will take him. Which would facilitate a move to 3 spot. So, if I correct, this really leaves us with 3 options. Take Goff or take Bosa leaving the third option being a trade down. Zeke is a super long shot at 4.
The trade up scenario where someone jumps up to 3, making the picks Tunsil, Wentz, Goff....leaves us sprinting to the podium with Ramsey's name on it. Again, I think there is only about 15% chance of this, but I wouldn't complain.
To me (right now) this draft is going to leave a debate between Goff and Bosa. I like a lot of Goff's tape, and some of it leaves me unexcited. I see a competent future NFL QB, he is a good pocket passer with superior accuracy and quick release. Smooth foot work in his drops and makes good decisions with the ball. The arm strength is not elite and I worry about how high the ceiling for him. Maybe because he does so many things "well", he really doesn't come across as elite in any area of his game. Goff is kind of like a better passing, but less athletic Alex Smith.
Then there is Bosa, oh boy, I get the high ranking based on results, tape etc etc. I have read a lot about partying and potential off field problems. He scares the hell out me. His tape shows great hands for a college player. He does have an array of moves and a no quit motor, lot's to like. What he lacks is quick twitch speed and elite outside speed and bend. He will be solid vs. the run and be an effort player. He is Anthony Spencer in my eyes, chalk up 6-9 sacks a year and play the run with some vigor. He belongs as the LDE, not on the right side.
So, if it's me and there are no trade down possibilities. I am taking the QB. I don't believe we are 1 player away from a SB and even if we were, that player is not Bosa or anyone left on the board. The Cowboys have not brought in anyone to even look at as a back up. There is no way Kellen Moore is the back up on opening day. Romo is a ticking time bomb health wise and Goff would have likely 1-2 years to work with the staff and Romo and provide some much needed depth and stability here.
***Totally random thought***
Jimmy Graham by all accounts had a pretty crappy year with Seattle. They played much better without him in the line up and he and Wilson lacked chemistry. I would be getting Seattle on the phone draft day. Imagine our Red Zone offense in a 2TE set with Witten, Dez and Jimmy. I would offer our 2nd rounder for him. We would have to add something and then spend the rest of the draft getting depth on defense.
Can't wait for the draft!
In my opinion the first 3 picks are:
1. Tunsil
2. Wentz-This a lock for me, done deal.
3. Ramsey
Maybe not that exact order, you could flip Tunsil and Ramsey, but I would wager a guess saying there is an 80-85% chance that these are the first three picks in front of us. The only way it differs imo is if a another team covets Goff and is convinced Dallas will take him. Which would facilitate a move to 3 spot. So, if I correct, this really leaves us with 3 options. Take Goff or take Bosa leaving the third option being a trade down. Zeke is a super long shot at 4.
The trade up scenario where someone jumps up to 3, making the picks Tunsil, Wentz, Goff....leaves us sprinting to the podium with Ramsey's name on it. Again, I think there is only about 15% chance of this, but I wouldn't complain.
To me (right now) this draft is going to leave a debate between Goff and Bosa. I like a lot of Goff's tape, and some of it leaves me unexcited. I see a competent future NFL QB, he is a good pocket passer with superior accuracy and quick release. Smooth foot work in his drops and makes good decisions with the ball. The arm strength is not elite and I worry about how high the ceiling for him. Maybe because he does so many things "well", he really doesn't come across as elite in any area of his game. Goff is kind of like a better passing, but less athletic Alex Smith.
Then there is Bosa, oh boy, I get the high ranking based on results, tape etc etc. I have read a lot about partying and potential off field problems. He scares the hell out me. His tape shows great hands for a college player. He does have an array of moves and a no quit motor, lot's to like. What he lacks is quick twitch speed and elite outside speed and bend. He will be solid vs. the run and be an effort player. He is Anthony Spencer in my eyes, chalk up 6-9 sacks a year and play the run with some vigor. He belongs as the LDE, not on the right side.
So, if it's me and there are no trade down possibilities. I am taking the QB. I don't believe we are 1 player away from a SB and even if we were, that player is not Bosa or anyone left on the board. The Cowboys have not brought in anyone to even look at as a back up. There is no way Kellen Moore is the back up on opening day. Romo is a ticking time bomb health wise and Goff would have likely 1-2 years to work with the staff and Romo and provide some much needed depth and stability here.
***Totally random thought***
Jimmy Graham by all accounts had a pretty crappy year with Seattle. They played much better without him in the line up and he and Wilson lacked chemistry. I would be getting Seattle on the phone draft day. Imagine our Red Zone offense in a 2TE set with Witten, Dez and Jimmy. I would offer our 2nd rounder for him. We would have to add something and then spend the rest of the draft getting depth on defense.
Can't wait for the draft!
Bankerguy
Footballguy
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Great write up and it makes a lot of since. I don't agree 100% but your thoughts are interesting. The part about Bosa partying though?!?!?!? He's a teenager who is a star defensive player on a Championship team. I partied like a rock star in college and the fact that I even mentioned myself and Bosa in the same post is an insult to Bosa. Imagine all the drop dead gorgeous women that have thrown themselves at his feet! Are you saying that you wouldn't have partied too??
Lol, he's Bosa! Of course he's going to party! I'm not concerned at all. Great thoughts though!
Tex
FWIW I went to HS with Bosa's father John who was a first rounder for Miami back in the day. I think the partying issue is way overblown. Bosa has a great work ethic and a nasty streak on the field which is exactly the kind of player I'd want my team to draft. Gronk parties as much as anyone but works his ### off and stays out of trouble. Bosa will be the same way. If you want to be worried about how dominant he'll be at the next level that's a legit concern but he isn't another Johnny football waiting to happen. Supposedly his younger brother Nick is better than he is, crazy genes in that family.
massraider
Footballguy
MIles is playing linebacker. Every defense has room for that speed and coverage ability. I think he should go #1.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
To answer your first question...yes. And yes.
Injury doesn't concern me much.
I'm not convinced as much as you about Wentz. I suspect the Browns are going to behave quite unpredictably now with Paul DePodesta providing substantial input on personnel. Wouldn't shock me at all to see them trade out of that pick.
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
If Tennessee don't trade back, I think Tunsil or Ramsey will be their pick. The Titans and Mularkey have praised both of them more than any other prospect.
Poncho
Footballguy
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Report: Cowboys not in love with one of draft's top defensive prospects
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25531692/report-cowboys-not-in-love-with-one-of-drafts-top-prospects
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25531692/report-cowboys-not-in-love-with-one-of-drafts-top-prospects
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
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Pwingles
Footballguy
So what positions are worthy of being selected at 1.04? Assuming theyre not sure fire HoFers obv
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Safety if hes Jalen Ramsey.
FYI Sean Taylor was drafted at 1.05 (RIP).... I don't know if he's that good, but if you believe he is, then grab him here and don't look back.
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I was thinking the same thing. I believe he wants Elliott there, which I guess means he'd better be the "other" LT?
Agreed.
I know this sounds crazy and I don't think factors into them possibly picking Jack at all but if he ends up in Dallas I'm going to be very intrigued if they put in a package of plays for him at RB? Last week Daniel Jeremiah said if Jack wanted to play RB he would easily be a first round pick, no doubt about it. Might be to tempting for them not to use him at least a few times a game behind that OL.
Jack can play safety, cover the slot, and play RB if needed or wanted in addition to playing LB. He's as versatile a player as you'll see and IMO should be looked at as more than just a LB.
I don't think it was hyperbole, I'm assuming he means that LB's usually aren't worth the 4th overall pick unless they are really, really good, but the same can be said of any position. I thought it was especially strange since I believe he wants a RB with that pick.
Pwingles
Footballguy
jkruppe
Footballguy
He's very much right. In today's NFL, RBs and LBs are under-valued, mostly, I think speaking to longevity issues. Both positions take so many hits that they frequently don't last too long. There are exceptions of course, and Jack and Elliot could be 2 of them, talent-wise. But, in general, LBs aren't drafted at such a high draft pick. I think that's all he was saying.
Pwingles
Footballguy
Every top pick is over scrutinized. Every top pick has a very very high expectation. That's why they're top picks. HoF players don't grow on trees. Selecting any player in the top 5-10 without the expectation that they can change your franchise is dumb. So you can apply that to every position really.
I get that he values zeke over whoever else we are talking about defensively. Nothing wrong with that. Just thought it was an odd thought that he would say a certain position wasnt worth 'X' pick unless he was basically a world beater, but 'X' pick is worth taking a guy at a position that most people agree is very devalued because of the nature of the game itself.
See what im saying?
Bankerguy
Footballguy
I do like Zeke...I have trouble at 4 though. Apparently I am not as high on Jack as many others. I am not thrilled taking him at 4.
As far as the flack this got, I will try to explain my logic on why a pro bowl RB is better then a pro bowl LB for the Cowboys....
How does Jack help our team? Likely a Mike LB and if he starts...moves Ro over to Sam. Lets say he is amazing with tons of tackles a couple sacks and a pick or 2. Does this alone move or D to Elite? No...imo.
How does Zeke help this team? Behind this line he puts Murray numbers or better. He is a complete back, 3 down back who is excellent in pass pro. He extends Romo's career. He gives us an identity again. He keeps our average defense off the field. I prefer Zeke to Jack...sorry.
I would prefer a QB or Ramsey who is the best player in the draft.
Me
A. Wentz
B. Ramsey if there
C. Trade down
D. Goff later then 4
E. Zeke later then 4
Have at it boys...
As far as the flack this got, I will try to explain my logic on why a pro bowl RB is better then a pro bowl LB for the Cowboys....
How does Jack help our team? Likely a Mike LB and if he starts...moves Ro over to Sam. Lets say he is amazing with tons of tackles a couple sacks and a pick or 2. Does this alone move or D to Elite? No...imo.
How does Zeke help this team? Behind this line he puts Murray numbers or better. He is a complete back, 3 down back who is excellent in pass pro. He extends Romo's career. He gives us an identity again. He keeps our average defense off the field. I prefer Zeke to Jack...sorry.
I would prefer a QB or Ramsey who is the best player in the draft.
Me
A. Wentz
B. Ramsey if there
C. Trade down
D. Goff later then 4
E. Zeke later then 4
Have at it boys...
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Tanner9919
Footballguy
Cowboys need to protect Romo and what better way than to draft the best blocking RB to come around in years
Cowboys rolled in 2014 with Murray Theyll roll again with Zeke at RB. No brainer
Lock it up.hes going to Dallas #4.
You dont pass on the next Edgerrin James.look what Gurley did in STL in 3/4ths of a season.RBs are back as top draft picks
Cowboys rolled in 2014 with Murray Theyll roll again with Zeke at RB. No brainer
Lock it up.hes going to Dallas #4.
You dont pass on the next Edgerrin James.look what Gurley did in STL in 3/4ths of a season.RBs are back as top draft picks
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Thats your opinion.
My opinion is you almost always take one of 3 positions with not only a top 10 pick, but your first round pick. OL/DL/CB and stick to that unless you are getting a once a decade type of player.
My opinion is you almost always take one of 3 positions with not only a top 10 pick, but your first round pick. OL/DL/CB and stick to that unless you are getting a once a decade type of player.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
cobalt_27
Footballguy
To be fair to our 4th pick, are you saying this for everyone? For Wentz being Peyton Manning or Jalen Ramsey being Deion Sanders or Zeke being Emmitt Smith or Bosa being J.J. Watt?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Bankerguy
Footballguy
I guess it was a lazy and flip comment. Not a fan of a LB at 4 from theory prospective and from a practical fit for our team.
I don't get it...so I said he better be freaking LT.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Is it because you feel LB are interchangeable parts? Can be coached up? Don't have a big impact on the game? Are unpredictable from college to pro transition?
IMO, Jack and Ramsey are the only guys potentially on the board here with "elite" talent--everyone else is either good and/or a good fit. Bosa, for example, is probably good, but he mostly looks like a good fit. We need DE help in a bad way. But, is he really going to be a great player? Probably not. Zeke? Do we need RB sure, but will he be great? Probably not. Wentz? No. Goff? No.
As a "practical fit," Jack can play wherever. Sean Lee is great, but not exactly a dependable asset from a health perspective. And McClain? I'm not passing on an elite LB just because McClain is in the way. For a year. I We need help everywhere on defense, and on paper LB doesn't seem as bad as other position groups. But, you plug in Jack, and you've got yourself an elite playmaker at the position for the next decade.
Also, putting a GM hat on, it would be nice to assume the same coaching staff and scheme will be entrenched for decades. And, if at were so, you could justify taking a lesser player over a better player if he fit a practical spot in the scheme. As you know, though, I hate that method. I want the best players period and to let scheme/fit be the tie-breaker when comparing two great prospects. And, if the argument is Jack isn't anything special, that's fine. To me, that's the only justifiable reason to pass on him at 4. But, as soon as I start hearing things like our scheme doesn't fit for this type of player...or there isn't a practical spot in our current lineup...I get a little punchy.
I get it within reason the idea of fitting pieces into the larger puzzle, but I bristle at the idea of passing on outstanding football players and knowingly/deliberately taking someone less talented just because of the "fit"/need argument. Because pretty soon the coaching staff is going to change or there is going to be an injury or there is going to be a free agent defection or acquisition. With all other variables so fluid, just take the best damn impactful player on the board and let everything else play out around the elite level talent.
Just my .02
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
So you think drafting interior linemen and CB is a bad way to build a franchise? Interesting.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I don't want ANY of these no names at 4. Im not at their workouts so I really dont know but none of them looks enticing at 4.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
You're kinda all over the place. I agree with most of what you posted but disagree with taking a player who doesn't fit our scheme. See Demarco Murray. He was a good fit in our system but blew chunks in Philly.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Hmm. Elite playmaker?
29 college games he had: 1 sack, 4 interceptions, 1 forced fumble and 19 passes defensed. Is that elite?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Not at all. That's not even remotely close to what I said or was responding to. Try again.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
If you're looking for splashy stats from the MLB position, you're looking in the wrong place for evidence of elite. Just look at Kuechly or Mike Singletary as comparison.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The Cowboys met with Shaq Lawson for a six-hour meeting.
Rand Getlin @Rand_Getlin Apr 4
I'm told#Clemson DL Shaq Lawson is currently meeting with the #Cowboys. They're taking a hard look at elite prospects. He fits the bill.
Rand Getlin @Rand_Getlin Apr 4
Lawson's been visiting with the#Cowboys for over 6 hours now. They've got some questions to answer on that defense. He could be one answer.
Rand Getlin
I'm told
Rand Getlin
Lawson's been visiting with the
simmonjm
Footballguy
As far as the argument for Jack as 1st rd pick: how many times on 3rd down did QB pass into flats or over the middle for easy completion and first down. New Orleans game in OT comes to mind. Anyhow I think he would be very valuable and he is my top choice if Wentz isn't available.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
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