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*****OFFICIAL FORMULA ONE GRAND PRIX THREAD***** (2 Viewers)

Sinn Fein said:
I know the schedule was scrambled due to covid, but it seems so long ago since the opening race.  A little lost momentum from a  great first weekend.  
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We got spoiled last year by the many back-to-back race weekends. I didn't mind the three week break because the extra week will hopefully benefit the teams after the short off season. There's more intrigue than usual to see how they unload tomorrow.

There's a one week break next month between Portugal and Spain.

 
First practice too early for me - hope to catch part of the 2nd practice.

But, its shaping up similar to last season: 2 Mercedes and Verstappen out in front, everyone else well behind.  (oh, and Mazepin appears unable to control a F1 car.  I have to wonder how long he'll keep his license at this rate.  I assume he will lose the license before he loses the seat.)

I do wonder whether Mercedes were able to catch-up - they have been working since pre-season testing - or if Red Bull are holding a little back right now.  But, all indications coming into the race were that Red Bull had a decided advantage at this track.

 
Not much to learn in FP 2.  Verstappen out early with a drive shaft issue, so no comparisons with the Mercs.

Mazepin - no crashes, but also 2+ seconds off the pace, and even then some dicey moments. 😬

Aston Martin still chirping about the disadvantage to the high rake cars, suggesting a law suit down the road.  (This really shows the difference in the quality of the Mercedes team v. Aston Martin, who are trying to emulate the Mercedes set-up.  I am sure Mercedes are privately miffed about the impact to their car as well, but they have the engineers/-ing to go about trying to recapture the lost downforce on their own).

 
Sinn Fein said:
Mercedes not far off the pace, but they still seem to be tinkering.  Had it on in the background, but one of the commentators was talking about how Mercedes might be changing the "rake" - which is not a subtle shift.

(The "rake" is essentially how high the back end of the car is relative to the front.  Red Bull runs a very high rake, Mercedes have historically run a very low rake, with the other teams in between, but typically closer to Red Bull's set up.  That angle is what helps the cars create downforce from the airflow underneath the car.)

Other than that - looks like it should be a good fight in qualification, with Williams and Haas both looking pretty far off the pace.
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I'm not sure on the open wheel cars because of the front wings, but on the Tin Tops with splitters up front a rake adjustment has more effects the airflow over the car then under. Specifically to the back of the car by getting the rear spoiler/wing higher into the air and creating more rear downforce.  

 
E Street Brat said:
I'm not sure on the open wheel cars because of the front wings, but on the Tin Tops with splitters up front a rake adjustment has more effects the airflow over the car then under. Specifically to the back of the car by getting the rear spoiler/wing higher into the air and creating more rear downforce.  
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Yeah - they made rule changes this year towards the back of the floor - cutting out a chunk on either side.  The idea was to cut downforce, and reduce wear/friction on the tires, and slow the cars a little.

Early testing, and the first race suggested the rule change had a harsher impact on the high rake cars - Mercedes and Aston Martin, than the lower rake cars - notably Red Bull, and most of the field.  So, Aston Martin's gripe is that the change was not an equal impact on all cars, and it should have been.

My guess is nothing will come of this.  Mercedes run the high rake, and while Red Bull may have caught the Mercs - its close.  And that is what F1 wants - closer racing.  (And everyone in the paddock is still a bit miffed at Aston Martin for copying the Mercs last season, so they don't have many friends over this issue)

 
Qualifying is very important at Imola with few overtaking possibilities.  But, with both Red Bulls directly behind Hamilton, and Perez on a different tire strategy, I would give a slight edge to Red Bull heading into tomorrow's race.

 
Never count out Hamilton. What a comeback. Everyone looked like they were standing still when he passed. 
 

Glad to see Max get a decisive victory. Good showing by Lando and Carlos. 

 
Bottas' weekend went to hell after being fastest in both Friday sessions.  The highlight of his race was allowing Lewis to get his lap back during the red flag.

There were late penalties levied against Stroll and Kimi that moved Gasly up in the standings and Alonso into the points.

 
Eephus said:
Bottas' weekend went to hell after being fastest in both Friday sessions.  The highlight of his race was allowing Lewis to get his lap back during the red flag.

There were late penalties levied against Stroll and Kimi that moved Gasly up in the standings and Alonso into the points.
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At the end of the season, I would not be surprised to see this race be both Hamilton's best and worst performance.  Got beat off the line at the start, obvious error to put himself in the gravel, a bit of fortune to get his lap back, but then still an amazing close to finish 2nd on a track where overtaking anyone is notoriously difficult.

I was a little surprised at Toto Wolff's comments about Bottas/Russell - essentially reminding Russell that he is a Mercedes driver, and needs to be mindful of the entire team - i.e. don't start taking risky maneuvers when you are up against a Mercedes.  I understand, and agree with, the sentiment, but just surprised he said it out loud.

Also interesting in his comments about the financial implications of the loss of Bottas' car - given the spending constraints on the teams, Toto said specifically that this will cause Mercedes to not be able to include some upgrades later in the season - having to spend the money directly on replacing the car.

 
Seems the Russell was properly chastised:

Russell said in a statement on social media that Sunday "wasn't my proudest day".

He added: "I knew it would be one of our best opportunities to score points this season and, when those points matter as much as they do to us right now, sometimes you take risks.

"It didn't pay off and I have to take responsibility for that.

"Having had time to reflect on what happened afterwards, I know I should have handled the whole situation better.

"Emotions can run high in the heat of the moment and yesterday mine got the better of me.

"I apologise to Valtteri, to my team and to anyone who felt let down by my actions. That's not who I am and I expect more from myself, as I know others expect more from me.

"I've learned some tough lessons this weekend and will come out of this a better driver and a better person for the experience."

 
Eephus said:
"similar to a Twenty20 cricket match" is very helpful :rolleyes:

I guess it's worth a try but the lack of any grid inversion makes it a bit less interesting. It's more like throwing a red flag after Saturday's sprint and restarting from a standing start the next day.
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Does the ability to pick your tire for Sunday matter at all?  Does it open up more strategies for the mid-field teams?

 
Sammy3469 said:
Does the ability to pick your tire for Sunday matter at all?  Does it open up more strategies for the mid-field teams?
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I don’t think it makes a huge difference. Right now only the top-10 qualifiers are locked into tire choice - based on Q2 times. 
 

Drivers have to use two different compounds in the race, and I think the preferred usage is Mediums then Hards, in a 1-stop strategy. So that does help a few drivers - but really just keeps them on the same strategy as the better cars when they need to try something different. 

 
Eephus said:
"similar to a Twenty20 cricket match" is very helpful :rolleyes:
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I'm not sure how helpful this will be as I don't know about this new Sprint thing, but --> traditional cricket matches - "Test Cricket" or sometimes called "First Class Cricket" - take about 3 days to complete.  This is the most traditional, "highest" form of cricket. Twenty20 cricket is a highly abbreviated, but now widely accepted version in which a game lasts a few hours.

 
E Street Brat said:
They should start the "Sprint" race by inverting the point standings. 
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...and Mazepin takes out half the field in the first corner.

The current three segment qualifying format is pretty great. I don't want to see it devalued too much since a single 10/10ths lap in a F1 car is special.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I'm not sure how helpful this will be as I don't know about this new Sprint thing, but --> traditional cricket matches - "Test Cricket" or sometimes called "First Class Cricket" - take about 3 days to complete.  This is the most traditional, "highest" form of cricket. Twenty20 cricket is a highly abbreviated, but now widely accepted version in which a game lasts a few hours.
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Right but it's not like the results of a one day cricket match are used to determine which side takes first innings in the subsequent test match.

 
Is there any chance Honda could change their mind and stick around F1?  They seem to be having a lot of success this year.

 
Guinis72 said:
Is there any chance Honda could change their mind and stick around F1?  They seem to be having a lot of success this year.
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I think they have already sold the engines and Intellectual Property to Red Bull - and Red Bull just hired away a guy from Mercedes to head up that department for RB.

There is a freeze on engine development until the new engine comes out in 2025* - which was done to allow RB, and teams they supply, to stay competitive engine-wise.

*I think that is in effect now - but could be off on the timing - might be end of the season.

 
Finished watching the last season of the Netflix thing.  Is there a report or something that explains how the hell grosjean survived that crash?

 
culdeus said:
Finished watching the last season of the Netflix thing.  Is there a report or something that explains how the hell grosjean survived that crash?
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Here's the official release following the FIA's investigation.  There are also a bunch of Zapruderesque breakdowns on YouTube.

The cockpit halo allowed Grosjean to survive the initial impact and guardrail failure.  The medical car and track marshalls arrived quickly but the driver was able to extricate himself 27 seconds after the crash.

 
Eephus said:
Here's the official release following the FIA's investigation.  There are also a bunch of Zapruderesque breakdowns on YouTube.

The cockpit halo allowed Grosjean to survive the initial impact and guardrail failure.  The medical car and track marshalls arrived quickly but the driver was able to extricate himself 27 seconds after the crash.
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Still so hard to believe he survived that . But when you watch the forensic videos on YouTube the engineering of the car came through. That and it was fortunate that Grosjean found the escape route so quickly.  Just a miracle all around. Incredible.

 
The usual pecking order restored in Portimao qualifying. Mercedes 1-2 on the grid with their Q2 pace advantage on mediums looking particularly ominous for race day. Verstappen did himself no favors with his deleted lap but the RBs weren't going to be fast enough regardless. I didn't hear anything about Mercedes struggling with tire warmup this time but higher track temps than at Imola probably helped.

Good runs from Ocon, Sainz, Russell and Vettel and surprising Q1 exits by Ricciardo and Stroll.

 
The race went off pretty much as expected, with the front three pulling away from the field.  I do think Perez is making strides at Red Bull and will be a bigger factor in races going forward.

Hamilton giveth, and Hamilton taketh away.  Mistake gave away track position, but then dogged pursuit took back the position and then he out-drove Bottas to take the lead, and never looked back.

Fortunately we get back-to-back races, with Barcelona this week.  It should be a better indication of where Mercedes and Red Bull sit in terms of the car performance.  The Mercs had a clear straight line speed advantage yesterday - but its not clear if that is track specific - or if they have been able to claw back the disadvantage they were facing after pre-season testing.

Ferrari v. McLaren should be as fun to watch as Mercedes v. Red Bull as the season progresses.

I would not be shocked if Mazepin loses his ride before the end of the season - despite his dad's money.  He almost took out the race leader (Perez) yesterday while being lapped.  I don't know if he picked up any points on his license for that - he was docked 5 seconds in the race.  But, at some point he becomes unsafe to himself and the other drivers out there.

 
Mazepin received one penalty point for ignoring the blue flags.  It's his first this year. The eleven points he accumulated in F2 did not carry over.

Barcelona is usually a pretty dull race. I doubt the 2021 downforce rules will make much of a difference. There will be three F3 races though.

 
Formula 1: Red Bull poach five Mercedes engineers for in-house engine facility

Red Bull have approached a number of other Mercedes employees who have turned them down, BBC Sport understands.

"We will lose some, we will win some. But at the end of the day, I believe in the philosophy of Mercedes, and I believe that we are a really good employer," Wolff added.

"It's a place where there's high pressure, but there's also a lot of fun. We can be proud of that and we have to rely on that.

"There will always be a back and forth. But let's put it this way, I understand where Christian is coming from - he wants to build a structure and that's where you have to write a big cheque sometimes. But that's OK."

This follows RB getting the director from Mercedes also.  From the sounds of it - they (Red Bull) are simply making offers these guys can't refuse.  Obviously Mercedes have a good powertrain crew - but it also make sense logistically since both teams are based in England - thus its easier for guys to move, than, say, bringing in someone from Ferrari. 

 
How does someone like Red Bull quantify the dollars they gain in exposure from something like this?  I mean how many can of soda can they really attribute to F1?  Compared to their extreme sports stuff, where they contribute minimal financial backing outside of a t-shirt cannon this has to be low efficiency.  

 
culdeus said:
How does someone like Red Bull quantify the dollars they gain in exposure from something like this?  I mean how many can of soda can they really attribute to F1?  Compared to their extreme sports stuff, where they contribute minimal financial backing outside of a t-shirt cannon this has to be low efficiency.  
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I am sure they have accountants doing their best to quantify the expenses.

It could also be that many of Red Bull's expenditures are simply tax avoidance (not in an illegal way).   I once worked for a company that was making too much money for the owners, so they authorized us to spend many millions each year buying new assets/companies - which kept their annual profits down.

Red Bull invest in a number of sports-related teams (3 or 4 soccer teams, in addition to an extensive auto racing stable), which does build brand awareness, and enhances brand image, but might also simply be a way of diverting profits from the drink division.

:shrug:

 
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I think Mercedes had the faster car today - at least on the mediums - but Mercedes were playing chess, while Red Bull were playing checkers in terms of strategy.

Bottas will probably get a stern talking to at the team debrief though...  There was no reason for him to hold up Lewis at that stage, they were on different strategies.  I get that Bottas probably hates playing second fiddle to Hamilton, but he is going to be a long way off the pace if he is not in a Mercedes next season.

 
So over/under on what round Mazespin wrecks out the leader of the race?

I'll say round 9

-QG

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Bottas will probably get a stern talking to at the team debrief though...
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I watched the Mercedes debrief - they actually put this on Hamilton, sort of. 
 

Apparently at the first DRS zone Hamilton was trailing by 1.001 seconds (so no DRS) and would cost Bottas 2-4 seconds to let Hamilton pass on the first straight. And at the time Bottas was still trying to catch Verstappen for 2nd.  
 

But then Bottas’ tires dropped off so they brought him in and gave up chasing 2nd. 

 
It's always been tough to pass at Monaco but the cars are so huge and aero dependent now. The race will probably be decided at the first corner. Leclerc's Ferrari on pole is a pretty good plot twist though.

It's still a great setting and the in-car shots are breathtaking.

 
Eephus said:
It's always been tough to pass at Monaco but the cars are so huge and aero dependent now. The race will probably be decided at the first corner. Leclerc's Ferrari on pole is a pretty good plot twist though.

It's still a great setting and the in-car shots are breathtaking.
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sigh

Bottas - :lmao:  guy is snakebitten

Leclerc - ok, he really is snakebitten at Monaco

Hamilton - just found himself in a championship fight, and he is probably not the favorite.

Side note - really surprised Mazepin did not bring out a safety car in the early part of the race. 

 
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