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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (13 Viewers)

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

Hillary does not even have any idea what the difference betwen her and a Socialist is.

You see here why the shield her from the press. Maybe the lack of trust in her is due to her lawyerly answers to basically anything and everything and the generally negative relationship and  experience Americans have had with attorneys. 

 
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Hillary does not even have any idea what the difference betwen her and a Socialist is.
Bernie's not a socialist.  He's a democratic socialist.  Matthew's "trying to help" her by spouting BS, then when she doesn't even answer a question, he nods and says he understands why she's being evasive.  Rarely see a journalist justify someone dodging a direct question right to the dodger's face. 

If it does come down to Trump/Clinton, has there ever been a worse final 2 in presidential elections?  Has there ever been a twosome that's even close? Depressing.

 
OK I am changing my position on something: 

I no longer believe that Hillary Clinton is more electable than Bernie Sanders. 

I still think this would be true against a generic Republican candidate but not against Donald Trump. I am now convinced that the Democrats could run Bugs Bunny against Donald Trump and the wascally wabbit would win in a landslide. 

I'm still supporting Hillary because I support her over Bernie on issues. But electability is no longer an issue for me. 

 
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OK I am changing my position on something: 

I no longer believe that Hillary Clinton is more electable than Bernie Sanders. 

I still think this would be true against a generic Republican candidate but not against Donald Trump. I am now convinced that the Democrats could run Bugs Bunny against Donald Trump and the wascally wabbit would win in a landslide. 

I'm still supporting Hillary because I support her over Bernie on issues. But electability is no longer an issue for me. 
Let's pretend for a moment the candidates can and will pass what they're trying for. Does that change anything for you?  

 
All of them or just his trade policies?  I'm not sure how you can think our current health care solution is better than single payer system but I'd be curious to hear an argument for it.
Not that one. I'd support the single payer, but I firmly believe tat if Hillary could get that she would too so it doesn't apply to your question. 

I am opposed to Bernie's trade policies, his heavy taxation of Wall Street, and his isolationism. 

 
OK I am changing my position on something: 
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Not that one. I'd support the single payer, but I firmly believe tat if Hillary could get that she would too so it doesn't apply to your question.


Interesting stance. What other issues do you believe Hillary is lying about?  

What stances do you believe Bernie is lying about (either for better or for worse)? 

 
Not that one. I'd support the single payer, but I firmly believe tat if Hillary could get that she would too so it doesn't apply to your question. 

I am opposed to Bernie's trade policies, his heavy taxation of Wall Street, and his isolationism. 
Have you ever explained our opposition to Bernie's trade policies and his attempts to protect us as individuals?

 
Hillary got handed the gift of a lifetime when Trump incited a riot on the Friday after saying some really dumb stuff about Nancy Reagan and she can't take the gift and run, she issued another "clarification" today and she basically lectured people on AIDS for the second half of it saying more people needed information. 

You can't make this stuff up.

 
Hillary babble again. We need more healthcare competition and doesn't understand why so many left the system.
She wants more non-profits....the same groups who are fleeing the market in droves.  Interesting.  Better significantly change the approach.  "Tweaks" aren't going to get it.

 
AnonymousBob said:
Interesting stance. What other issues do you believe Hillary is lying about?  

What stances do you believe Bernie is lying about (either for better or for worse)? 
I don't think Hillary is lying about this? She's said all along she would like single payer, but that she doesn't think it's practical to try and implement it right now given the fight we just finished over Obamacare. She doesn't think that fight should be refought at the moment. I agree with this too. 

 
The Commish said:
Have you ever explained our opposition to Bernie's trade policies and his attempts to protect us as individuals?
I don't understand: you want me to explain YOUR opposition? 

If you want me to explain MY opposition, I have several times but its' not too complicated: I believe that overall free trade is more beneficial to this nation than it is harmful, and that stopping it is more harmful than it is beneficial. 

 
The Commish said:
Have you ever explained our opposition to Bernie's trade policies and his attempts to protect us as individuals?
I don't understand: you want me to explain YOUR opposition? 

If you want me to explain MY opposition, I have several times but its' not too complicated: I believe that overall free trade is more beneficial to this nation than it is harmful, and that stopping it is more harmful than it is beneficial. 

 
So RealClearPolitics posted this article from The Guardian this morning, entitled: "The Sanders Voters who would Choose Trump over Clinton":

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/13/bernie-sanders-supporters-consider-donald-trump-no-hillary-clinton

Sounds ominous, no? Sounds exactly like what some of the Bernie fans have been warning us here: if Hillary wins the nomination, they'll either jump to Trump or they won't vote, and Hillary will lose. How many times have we've heard this? So this article seems to make it true! 

That is, until you get to the middle of the article:

In an NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey conducted by Hart Research Associates this month, 7% of Sanders voters said they could see themselves supporting Trump. Some 66% said the same for Clinton. 

A similar proportion of Sanders folk – 8% – gave Trump a positive likeability rating, compared with 48% for Clinton. That figure is unlikely to be causing Clinton campaign aides much loss of sleep.

The data does not indicate any meaningful concern for Clinton that if she wins the Democratic nomination large numbers of Sanders voters would head to Trump,” said Jeff Horwitt, a senior vice-president with Hart Research.

Oh my gosh! Such a worry...

 
So RealClearPolitics posted this article from The Guardian this morning, entitled: "The Sanders Voters who would Choose Trump over Clinton":

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/13/bernie-sanders-supporters-consider-donald-trump-no-hillary-clinton

Sounds ominous, no? Sounds exactly like what some of the Bernie fans have been warning us here: if Hillary wins the nomination, they'll either jump to Trump or they won't vote, and Hillary will lose. How many times have we've heard this? So this article seems to make it true! 

That is, until you get to the middle of the article:

In an NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey conducted by Hart Research Associates this month, 7% of Sanders voters said they could see themselves supporting Trump. Some 66% said the same for Clinton. 

A similar proportion of Sanders folk – 8% – gave Trump a positive likeability rating, compared with 48% for Clinton. That figure is unlikely to be causing Clinton campaign aides much loss of sleep.

The data does not indicate any meaningful concern for Clinton that if she wins the Democratic nomination large numbers of Sanders voters would head to Trump,” said Jeff Horwitt, a senior vice-president with Hart Research.

Oh my gosh! Such a worry...
I'd think Donald calling Sanders a communist and Sanders calling Donald a pathological liar put an end to this fantasy.

 
I'd think Donald calling Sanders a communist and Sanders calling Donald a pathological liar put an end to this fantasy.
I went to watch a Trump rally and got a Bernie trade ad. People who are tired of the great trade and foreign policy choices that has brought America greatness the last two and a half decades have choices. 

 
Bernie has generated a lot of excitement on the Dem side. If Hillary win the nomination I have a feeling she will pick up the majority of Bernie supporters but with a significant loss of enthusiasm.

 
Bernie has generated a lot of excitement on the Dem side. If Hillary win the nomination I have a feeling she will pick up the majority of Bernie supporters but with a significant loss of enthusiasm.
Don't you think the disgust and fear of a possible Trump presidency will make up for a lot of that? 

 
Watching Hillary and Trump fumble the ball back and forth is going to make for really bad political football this summer.

 
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I went to watch a Trump rally and got a Bernie trade ad. People who are tired of the great trade and foreign policy choices that has brought America greatness the last two and a half decades have choices. 
Donald is actually more extreme than Sanders. Sanders just opposes the TPP, Donald is talking about unilaterally violating NAFTA and other trade deals.

 
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Yes, I think on the Dem side there will be a measure of that incentive whether it's Trump or Cruz.  But I think to some extent it will be diminished by Clinton fatigue.
I disagree. I don't think a lot of people get yet what the Trump nomination is going to do to the attitudes of this country. But they will. 

Hillary is going to be a secondary factor in this election, as is Obama. I never thought that would be the case, but it's true. The election is going to be all about Donald Trump, for and against. And I believe it's going to be mostly against. 

 
Hillary's answer on fracking tonight is yet another reason why I prefer her over Bernie. Bernie is opposed to fracking and means to shut it down. Hillary is concerned about fracking but specifically about certain aspects of fracking, and she notes the limited power she has as President vs. the power of the states. And she recognizes the economic consequences of simply shutting it down even if we could. 

In other words, Bernie's answer was clear. Hillary's was unclear. A lot of people want clear answers, and if they do they should vote for Bernie (or Trump.) I want my leaders to recognize that not everything has a clear answer, and that there are nuances and subtleties and you need to be thoughtful and pragmatic. I recognize that in these populist times that could very well be a losing approach. Still it's the approach that I want. 

ETA: Also loved her discussion about a Trump Presidency and what it would mean. 

 
Hillary's answer on fracking tonight is yet another reason why I prefer her over Bernie. Bernie is opposed to fracking and means to shut it down. Hillary is concerned about fracking but specifically about certain aspects of fracking, and she notes the limited power she has as President vs. the power of the states. And she recognizes the economic consequences of simply shutting it down even if we could. 

In other words, Bernie's answer was clear. Hillary's was unclear. A lot of people want clear answers, and if they do they should vote for Bernie (or Trump.) I want my leaders to recognize that not everything has a clear answer, and that there are nuances and subtleties and you need to be thoughtful and pragmatic. I recognize that in these populist times that could very well be a losing approach. Still it's the approach that I want. 

ETA: Also loved her discussion about a Trump Presidency and what it would mean. 


Hillary has been extremely pro-fracking. She will pack the Interior Department with frack friendly industry insiders who will make the rules, that's how that will go down.

 
Hillary's answer on fracking tonight is yet another reason why I prefer her over Bernie. Bernie is opposed to fracking and means to shut it down. Hillary is concerned about fracking but specifically about certain aspects of fracking, and she notes the limited power she has as President vs. the power of the states. And she recognizes the economic consequences of simply shutting it down even if we could. 

In other words, Bernie's answer was clear. Hillary's was unclear. A lot of people want clear answers, and if they do they should vote for Bernie (or Trump.) I want my leaders to recognize that not everything has a clear answer, and that there are nuances and subtleties and you need to be thoughtful and pragmatic. I recognize that in these populist times that could very well be a losing approach. Still it's the approach that I want. 

ETA: Also loved her discussion about a Trump Presidency and what it would mean. 
I expect a candidate with a long-standing record of considering issues to have a position on an issue like fracking.

One of my concerns about Clinton is that she really doesn't have a long-standing record of having to consider issues like fracking, so it doesn't particularly bother me that she hasn't formed one so much as not having to have formed one. 

 
Don't you think the disgust and fear of a possible Trump presidency will make up for a lot of that? 
I certainly don't.  A large part of Bernie's base includes first-time voters, college kids, idealists, who are energized by his message...delivered by him, and the act of voting is a commitment to him.  I don't have the data in front of me, but I believe it has been pretty well established that voting patterns--indeed, this is true for other psychological/behavioral phenomena--show that people are more likely to activate in support of a position they believe in, as opposed to activate in the direction that blocks an unwanted outcome.  Especially when Hillary engenders a lot of disgust and fear amongst a large proportion of that group of voters.  A lot of Bernie people will stay home.

 
Bernie is opposed to fracking and means to shut it down.
That's the best position to take. Fracking is bad news. I forget which thread it was that Tobias and I went back and forth about it a bit, but I didn't find anything to change my point of view that fracking can't end soon enough. The environmental and health detriments are much too great a cost.

 
I disagree. I don't think a lot of people get yet what the Trump nomination is going to do to the attitudes of this country. But they will. 

Hillary is going to be a secondary factor in this election, as is Obama. I never thought that would be the case, but it's true. The election is going to be all about Donald Trump, for and against. And I believe it's going to be mostly against. 
Is this one of your non-prediction predictions?  

 
PPP has narrow Clinton leads in OH and Illinois, Bernie narrowly in MO, and Clinton blowouts in FL and NC.

for purely PR purposes she really needs 3-4 of the 5 states even though her margin in FL will give her a big delegate boost either way. 

 
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