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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (11 Viewers)

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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Summary:

- Hillary did send and receive emails that were classified at the time.

- Hillary's email server was negligently insecure.

- Hillary did not archive or provide public records as she was supposed to.

- Hillary's attorneys did delete and destroy emails they were supposed to turn over.

- Hillary was in contact with people who were hacked by other countries.

-Hillary sent classified emails unencrypted from within hostile countries .

- Hillary  sent TS/SCI emails from her account and "knew, or should have known" that unclassified email was "not appropriate" for that conversation or means of communication.
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Ridiculous outcome given all that. Only thing i can figure is Comey is terrified of a Trump presidency.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
- Comey

This is really incredible. I guess this means that the FBI was not able to recover the deleted emails. How this is not obstruction of justice I am not sure.

I think this means they did wipe the server after all? And the backup data from River Platte and Datto did not pan out? I am really curious about if there is a final definitive answer to this.
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Clearly obstruction of justice. Un####ing believable.

 
So, two things here that I see:

1.  This notion that they are recommending no charges because in all the areas that were motivators in prior cases, they didn't believe Hillary rose to the same level of negligence.  Question that would logically follow would be "Did any of those go to these sorts of lengths to set up a SERVER of their own and if no, how does the action of doing so rank among those other offenses that people got indicted for?"

2.  Turns out, ignorance IS a defense if you're up high enough in the judicial system of this country.  It's going to be red meat for Trump and his :hophead:  IF there is someone out there that hasn't made up their mind about her, that could impact.  If the argument is "anyone who allows this to affect their opinion, they weren't voting for her anyway" then the opposite will be true.  So, is there a boost for her?  Maybe a small one, but in the end, it's another example of poor judgment and a significant misunderstanding of technology in the technology age.  Though I think most all the yahoos in office suffer from the latter.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This is really incredible. I guess this means that the FBI was not able to recover the deleted emails. How this is not obstruction of justice I am not sure.
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They recovered thousands of the deleted emails. They have no way of knowing whether there exist additional emails that they did not recover.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Sounds to me like they recovered what they did from other sources, not from Hillary's server.
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Hillary used more than one server. I'd have to look at Comey's statement again, but I think her main server was the one that they recovered a buttload of emails from in the form of fragments (that they put back together) because they were simply deleted in a normal fashion, not wiped clean. There were other servers that were wiped in a way that precluded any recovery. But some of those emails were nonetheless recovered in other ways, though there's no way to know how many remain unrecovered.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
Hillary used more than one server. I'd have to look at Comey's statement again, but I think her main server was the one that they recovered a buttload of emails from in the form of fragments (that they put back together) because they were simply deleted in a normal fashion, not wiped clean.

There were other servers that were wiped in a way that precluded any recovery. But some of those emails were nonetheless recovered in other ways, though there's no way to know how many remain unrecovered.
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Ok I had to break this into two.

On your first point - yes, look at it again. I quoted the bit above about "the lawyers cleaned their devices." WTH is that about? As I understand it there was one server pulled out of storage in NJ. To me that is the one requiring forensic recovery and it does not sound like they got any.

On your second point you're way out ahead of me:

- There was one server that was seized. Supposedly at one point Hillary had moved her data to another server. Supposedly. There's no indication they ever went after her current server.

- There was hardware seized in CO (River Platte), CT (Datto) and IIRC PA (maybe a network node).

- Comey then refers to lawyers having devices (multiple)?

It's not clear what the heck Comey is saying there but whether there was deleted data recovered or recoverable is now the BIG issue because there are FOIA cases in federal court on just that point.

 
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Her lawyers had the devices because they were the ones responding to the FBI's requests.

I don't know why any servers would have been wiped clean after producing the requested docs. That seems weird to me as well. Why not give the servers to the FBI? I guess because she didn't want the FBI to read about personal yoga routines that were none of their business. Okay, but still, why wipe the servers clean instead of putting them in a safe in case they were needed later? Maybe she really didn't want the yoga routines to be recovered, or maybe that's just standard practice when a hard drive has some classified info. I don't know, and that part really wasn't explained.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Unfortunately, that's the standard we have in 'Murica.  We require proof - you don't get to criminally charge someone simply because FoxNews says so.  
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Once again, Tommy ignoring everything else to push forth talking points.  Stay true to your fantasy world, my friend.

 
Captain Cranks said:
It's in indictment on us that we care about something so inconsequential...and then we have the gall to complain about the government not functioning properly.  Maybe, just maybe, we're not functioning properly.  
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inconsequential?  National Security is inconsequential to you?  Ever work for the government or been in the military?  I think it's fair to say from your post we can assume you have not because someone who has would not say something like that.

 
What an absolutely bizarre election cycle.  Case of the Oligarchy not being able to see the absurdity beyond the tip of its nose. 

GOP has to realize at this point -- it could put almost anyone but Trump up and dunk on Clinton.  What an absolute waste.  When the dust settles, Hillary will run away with this thing despite the overwhelming sentiment that she's corrupt and undeserving of the office. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
If they had had their way, IMO the DOJ and WH would have said that the "FBI" had cleared Clinton of *any* wrongdoing. So yeah this is a big difference.
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Whatever semantics people want to play I suppose. My point was though nobody is really surprised that this wasn't going to end her, right?

 
The General said:
Whatever semantics people want to play I suppose. My point was though nobody is really surprised that this wasn't going to end her, right?
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I don't think that was semantical at all. Most people expected no indictment but the big difference here was Comey coming out front, I think that was my point.

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
murdered?
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Yes, murdered. There were reports of men who were probable informants in Syria and other Middle Eastern countries disappearing or being found dead. We'll never know just how many informants or spies were compromised or what consequences to them occurred due to her private server. The fact that it's even potentially a possibility is highly disturbing.

 
Now that this is all clear up what's the next Clinton thing we can get the internet forums all lathered up on?

There has to be something in the pipeline.

 
The General said:
Nobody really thought this was bringing down Hillary, right? :lol:
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As others have pointed out, it would be a serious problem if she was running against someone other than Trump. 

I still think it mainly reinforces the negatives for people already predisposed to thinking she is corrupt/dishonest, but there are enough people in the middle that it could sway to be problematic against a legitimate alternative. Since Trump is isn't a legitimate alternative, this is likely to just get added to pile of Clinton-hater fuel.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
This really is stupid. I'm not responsible for a dumb solution crafted by my IT team or staff. They are the experts. 

If Hillary said: I want to hide my classified emails and other things from the government or public despite the law, figure out how to get it done, that's one thing. 

If she said, I want to have my emails in one place. Figure out how to make it easier and get it done, that's another. 
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Well, we now know that she asked somebody in IT if it was allowable, they said no, and she then did it anyway. So....

 
GroveDiesel said:
JerseyToughGuys said:
murdered?
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Yes, murdered. There were reports of men who were probable informants in Syria and other Middle Eastern countries disappearing or being found dead. We'll never know just how many informants or spies were compromised or what consequences to them occurred due to her private server. The fact that it's even potentially a possibility is highly disturbing.
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Link?  Why would the Secretary of State have a list of overseas informants in her email?  The only thing I found on this topic was from right-wing rags, and aren't almost all her emails available via the FOIA? 

 
Let's reverse roles here - if it had been Donald Trump that had been under investigation for this same type of thing, and was cleared of wrongdoing, the entire internet may explode, as well as, the robot heads of every major news outlet.  With Hillary, the media is (for the most part) going to cover this for a couple days before it's wiped under the rug.  

 
Court: Private-account email can be subject to FOIA


On the same day that the FBI announced that the criminal investigation of Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server is likely to conclude without any charges, a federal appeals court issued a ruling that could complicate and prolong a slew of ongoing civil lawsuits over access to the messages Clinton and her top aides traded on personal accounts.

In a decision Tuesday in a case not involving Clinton directly, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit held that messages contained in a personal email account can sometimes be considered government records subject to Freedom of Information Act requests.

... At least one federal judge handling a FOIA suit focused on Clinton's emails said last month he was watching to see how the D.C. Circuit ruled in the dispute involving Obama science adviser John Holdren and an account he kept on a server at the non-profit Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts.

...

While the opinions in the case make no mention of Clinton or her private server, it seems evident that all three appeals judges involved are aware of the obvious analogy.

"If a department head can deprive the citizens of their right to know what his department is up to by the simple expedient of maintaining his departmental emails on an account in another domain, that purpose is hardly served. It would make as much sense to say that the department head could deprive requestors of hard-copy documents by leaving them in a file at his daughter’s house and then claiming that they are under her control," Judge David Sentelle wrote in an opinion joined by Judge Harry Edwards.

...
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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/private-email-freedom-of-information-225100

- Hillary's case is going to have continuing impact on public records requests and as for her own emails the FBI & DOJ will have to answer soon enough about what has been recovered or is recoverable.

 
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msommer said:
Seems to me that an author ought to know the difference between the meaning of the word "careless" and the word "negligent" 

Certainly Corney does
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According to several legal dictionaries they appear to be synonyms. Do you have any proof that they're not commonly used as legal synonyms.

 
Gustavo Fring said:
Let's reverse roles here - if it had been Donald Trump that had been under investigation for this same type of thing, and was cleared of wrongdoing, the entire internet may explode, as well as, the robot heads of every major news outlet.  With Hillary, the media is (for the most part) going to cover this for a couple days before it's wiped under the rug.  
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Yeah sure :lol:

 
It's pretty easy to see legacy means more than truth. Any other Joe smoo gets the book thrown at them.

 
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George Jefferson Airplane said:
Link?  Why would the Secretary of State have a list of overseas informants in her email?  The only thing I found on this topic was from right-wing rags, and aren't almost all her emails available via the FOIA? 
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Informants are relatively easy to figure out when the enemy knows exactly what information their enemy has and who it came from. 

And like I said, we'll never have access to most of this type of info and no way of knowing that the leaks from Hillary's server was the reason why, but the very fact that it's a real possibility is why this is much more serious than Clinton's defenders are pretending it is.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's not clear what the heck Comey is saying there but whether there was deleted data recovered or recoverable is now the BIG issue because there are FOIA cases in federal court on just that point.
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There is no more BIG issue with this.  The classified information was what was important and the FOIA does not deal with that. 

 
GroveDiesel said:
Informants are relatively easy to figure out when the enemy knows exactly what information their enemy has and who it came from. 

And like I said, we'll never have access to most of this type of info and no way of knowing that the leaks from Hillary's server was the reason why, but the very fact that it's a real possibility is why this is much more serious than Clinton's defenders are pretending it is.
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You are just jumping to conclusions.  For one, you are incorrect about how easy it is to detect informants.  For another, and more importantly, you are missing the little fact that Clinton's servers were never proven to be compromised or hacked.  So you are claiming that she might have gotten people murdered, yet the only thing we know for sure is that there were a total of 22 Top Secret emails and 65 secret emails that passed through those accounts among more than 30k.  How exactly did the enemies of America gain access to emails that may or may not have existed to kill informants and agents on the ground?  This whole line of logic is extremely flawed isn't it?  I mean, come on. 

 
MaxThreshold said:
inconsequential?  National Security is inconsequential to you?  Ever work for the government or been in the military?  I think it's fair to say from your post we can assume you have not because someone who has would not say something like that.
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My wife likes to be melodramatic too.  

 
Gross negligence and extremely careless sound like the same thing to me.  Not sure what the distinction really is.  Be interesting to see case law.  

 
Gustavo Fring said:
Meh, just talking hypothetical.  It's very clear that Hillary gets a more favorable light cast on her by almost every major media outlet sans Fox News. She's just as corrupt as Trump in reality though.  
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This is on every channel, every website, it's literarily the first thing you will see today if you turn on anything that's connected to any form of media :lol:

Is she as corrupt as Trump, I'm going to disagree with you.

Does she have the personality of used couch and have the grating voice of busted trumpet, well maybe.

 
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