Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)

[Baloney Sandwich]

Hillary ClintonVerified account ‏@HillaryClinton 6m6 minutes ago

"She will be a stateswoman who makes us proud around the world. ... She knows what it takes to be Commander-in-Chief." —@POTUS on Hillary

She has a giant set of balls, I will give her that 

 

[TwinTurbo]

This really is stupid. I'm not responsible for a dumb solution crafted by my IT team or staff. They are the experts. 

If Hillary said: I want to hide my classified emails and other things from the government or public despite the law, figure out how to get it done, that's one thing. 

If she said, I want to have my emails in one place. Figure out how to make it easier and get it done, that's another. 

But in this case, it would be like bypassing the IT staff and security infrastructure put in place by your company to use your own incompetent, non-expert staff and non-secure architecture. That really is stupid.  Even gmail would have been more secure than what she did. Most people would be fired from their job for this. 

 

[Phil Elliott]

His females and her emails.  It all depends on what your definition of "is" is.  

 

[The Commish]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/private-email-freedom-of-information-225100

- Hillary's case is going to have continuing impact on public records requests and as for her own emails the FBI & DOJ will have to answer soon enough about what has been recovered or is recoverable.

So when Hillary is elected, will the House Republicans (Cause they will probably keep the house) start having endless special committees' about Hilary's Emails? Just like Benghazi?

we have been assured she will have no problem working with the right...no need to worry.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I like it. A little too gross though.

More like some campaign finance, pay for play type thing or maybe go back to the murder angle. Those are a bit better I think.

Ya, not as light hearted as the murder stuff 

 

[whoknew]

And as most of us thought, nothing was ever going to happen to Hillary.  She is a Clinton.  The rules do no apply.  She wins in a landslide in November. 

I have seen this written a lot but I guess I just don't get it fully. To believe this position, you have to believe that the FBI is in on it and Comey is a liar. 

I'm completely fine with that point of view - I think law enforcement and government agents lie ALL THE TIME. I'm just a little surprised to see that reaction from law and order types.

 

[The Commish]

I've been busy at work all morning, and Im only catching up on this stuff now. 

I'm disappointed. I think it's probable that Hillary lied, both about her reason for having the private email server, and about receiving classified material. I think she was careless. I have to say my opinion of her has gone down since this morning, listening to Comey confirm some things which I refused to believe. 

I still think she'll make an excellent President. But I like her a little less now.

  

 

[LAUNCH]

https://t.co/T17JQfjWK7

 

[The Commish]

Yeah. She appears to be more dishonest than I thought she was.

Nothing a little "Hard Choices" refresher reading can't fix Tim...keep your chin up  

 

[jonessed]

I have seen this written a lot but I guess I just don't get it fully. To believe this position, you have to believe that the FBI is in on it and Comey is a liar. 

I'm completely fine with that point of view - I think law enforcement and government agents lie ALL THE TIME. I'm just a little surprised to see that reaction from law and order types.

Comey is a political appointee.

 

[whoknew]

Comey is a political appointee.

So? He's still the head of the FBI. He used to be a lawyer, now he's a cop.

And he used to work in the W's DOJ, right?

 

[jabarony]

I'm shocked that someone with money and power may have received preferential treatment.

 

[sho nuff]

Yeah. She appears to be more dishonest than I thought she was.

99% of people already knew that.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

I have seen this written a lot but I guess I just don't get it fully. To believe this position, you have to believe that the FBI is in on it and Comey is a liar. 

I'm completely fine with that point of view - I think law enforcement and government agents lie ALL THE TIME. I'm just a little surprised to see that reaction from law and order types.

Comey is a political appointee.

The difference is he has a 10 year appointment, he's not just there for this presidency.  He's also a GOP-backed appointee from the Bush Administration, as Deputy Attorney General. 

 

[dparker713]

And as most of us thought, nothing was ever going to happen to Hillary.  She is a Clinton.  The rules do no apply.  She wins in a landslide in November. 

While nothing is going to happen to her, the rules were applied - you just don't like the outcome.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

So? He's still the head of the FBI. He used to be a lawyer, now he's a cop.

And he used to work in the W's DOJ, right?

I'm sure he has quite a bit of work experience, but ultimately he was hired and can be fired by Obama.  You don't think a person's boss has any influence on their decisions?

No, you have no idea what you are talking about.  He has a 10-year term, the president has no authority to fire him, it would have to go to Congress. 

 

[whoknew]

I'm sure he has quite a bit of work experience, but ultimately he was hired and can be fired by Obama.  You don't think a person's boss has any influence on their decisions?

I mean - maybe. But I would think that a cop would have the integrity to recommend charges if he thought they should be recommended. And beyond that, he said, "No reasonable prosecutor would bring charges in cases like this." That's a strong, verifiable statement. He stated a fact.

So to believe that Clinton got special treatment, you have to believe the top domestic cop is a liar and has little to no integrity. Again - I can be convinced. I don't think that highly of cops in the first place. I just thought some of y'all did.

ETA: George Jefferson Airplane seems to refute your claim that Obama can fire him.

 

[dparker713]

The definitions in multiple legal dictionaries seem to run totally contrary to your experience.

http://thelawdictionary.org/carelessness/

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?typed=Careless&type=1

http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/careless-term.html

http://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/careless.html

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Careless

I mean, literally every single one lists negligent as a definition of careless. All except one list it as the very first definition. I find it extremely difficult to believe that every single legal dictionary indicates that they are the same, but the legal world treats them differently. Is it your claim that literally every single legal dictionary is incorrect?

They're certainly not synonyms.  Most negligent acts would be careless and some careless acts are negligent, but while there is great overlap, they're not a unity.  And for as much as there are definitions of negligence or gross negligence, it's also a "you know it when you see it" thing.  There are few bright line rules as to what is and is not negligence.    

 

[Boston]

I'm shocked that someone with money and power may have received preferential treatment.

The good news is Hildo and Lizzie are out there fighting for the little guy...

 

[dparker713]

But in this case, it would be like bypassing the IT staff and security infrastructure put in place by your company to use your own incompetent, non-expert staff and non-secure architecture. That really is stupid.  Even gmail would have been more secure than what she did. Most people would be fired from their job for this. 

You left out that the company's staff was hardly a gold standard in the field.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints:

Wait stop - I misread your post: yes, Comey has said that some were MARKED classified.

Comey's statement is somewhat vague about how the emails were marked. He said that some emails "bore markings indicating the presence of classified information". But what does that mean? Were they marked "classified" in the subject line? Did they have one of those red flags next to them? Or did the sender put a spoiler tag somewhere in the body of the email? I would think Hillary's level of culpability is directly tied to how those emails were "marked".

The documents will have various codes which are marked on the document itself. However there are different classifications or codes. - What happens is that if someone in military, intelligence or diplomacy receives information which might be classified it is incumbent upon them to mark it themselves or have it marked. If they are not sure they can ask a Security Officer to mark it. If someone received information which should have been marked they need to either mark it or contact an SO as well. That's how I understand it.

So what Comey is saying is that Hillary received, sent or simply retained documents which had these codes. So for instance (C) means Confidential, TOP SECRET means Top Secret, NOFORN means foreigners can't see it, SI means Secret Intelligence, TK means Talent Keyhole or satellite information, SAP means Special Access Programs, and there are more and these can all have multiple codes and things like TS/SCI (Secret Compartmentalized Information) are typical. So these emails would not have been literally marked "CLASSIFIED." That does not exist (in fact every time Hillary said she had never received anything marked "Classified" that was true, however no one ever does, that's a near impossibility), but they would have had markings that indicated to Hillary that the information within them had already been identified as containing classified information and so she should not have had them on her server.

 

[jonessed]

No, you have no idea what you are talking about.  He has a 10-year term, the president has no authority to fire him, it would have to go to Congress. 

Nope.  Obama can fire him.  Congress can as well, but it would be harder.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Nope.  Obama can fire him.  Congress can as well, but it would be harder.

The President can ask the AG to remove the FBI Director from his/her position but they wouldn't do that unless the Senate Judiciary Committee did not sign off.  It's only happened once and Clinton had the SJC behind him and those in Congress who would be confirming new director.  You can't just fire an FBI Director, it's not like firing a Starbucks cashier. 

 

[dparker713]

I'm shocked that someone with money and power may have received preferential treatment.

Unless you're going to claim that Comey was lying, she did not receive preferential treatment in the recommendation to file no charges.

 

[jonessed]

I mean - maybe. But I would think that a cop would have the integrity to recommend charges if he thought they should be recommended. And beyond that, he said, "No reasonable prosecutor would bring charges in cases like this." That's a strong, verifiable statement. He stated a fact.

So to believe that Clinton got special treatment, you have to believe the top domestic cop is a liar and has little to no integrity. Again - I can be convinced. I don't think that highly of cops in the first place. I just thought some of y'all did.

ETA: George Jefferson Airplane seems to refute your claim that Obama can fire him.

He stated a fact .  I'm sure he personally knows ever reasonable prosecutor in the country and what they would do.

I believe political appointees can be manipulated by the President.  In fact, it seems rather obvious.  I don't know any executives that hire people that aren't loyal to them.

George is wrong.

 

[whoknew]

He stated a fact .  I'm sure he personally knows ever reasonable prosecutor in the country and what they would do.

I believe political appointees can be manipulated by the President.  In fact, it seems rather obvious.  I don't know any executives that hire people that aren't loyal to them.

George is wrong.

Whether similar cases have been brought by a prosecutor is a fact that can be verified. By the press, for example. 

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

He stated a fact .  I'm sure he personally knows ever reasonable prosecutor in the country and what they would do.

I believe political appointees can be manipulated by the President.  In fact, it seems rather obvious.  I don't know any executives that hire people that aren't loyal to them.

George is wrong.

MOP alias?   

 

[jonessed]

The President can ask the AG to remove the FBI Director from his/her position but they wouldn't do that unless the Senate Judiciary Committee did not sign off.  It's only happened once and Clinton had the SJC behind him and those in Congress who would be confirming new director.  You can't just fire an FBI Director, it's not like firing a Starbucks cashier. 

They normally just ask for their resignation.

Sessions wouldn't resign though so he had to be fired.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Yeah. She appears to be more dishonest than I thought she was.

Tune in next week for more  As the Liberal Turns...

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

• Comey’s announcement takes the path of the least politicalization. Comey is a former career prosecutor who served twice as a political appointee in George W. Bush’s Justice Department. He is now serving a non-renewable 10-year term as FBI director that expires in 2023. It’s hard to come up with a clear argument for why Comey would be beholden to Clinton or why his recommendation would be politically biased

  At FBG it isn't, lol
  

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Unless you're going to claim that Comey was lying, she did not receive preferential treatment in the recommendation to file no charges.

We are all over the age of 12 on this board (yes, I'm giving squiz the benefit of the doubt) so let's not pretend justice is blind.  Of course she was giving preferential treatment but honestly giving the circumstances I don't how it could be avoided.  I think Comey is a stand up guy but let's not live in Lala land.

 

[DocHolliday]

While nothing is going to happen to her, the rules were applied - you just don't like the outcome.

This is the outcome I expected all along. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm disappointed. I think it's probable that Hillary lied, both about her reason for having the private email server, and about receiving classified material.

What did Comey say with respect to the "reason for having the private server"?   As for "receiving classified material" I don't think anything today changed anything.  Maybe the exact number (56 threads/110 emails) is new, but we knew that at least two were in question.

Oh, and I skipped 12 pages of posts in case it comes from there..

 

[bigbottom]

I listened to Comey's statement and here's what I came away with: most every recitation of a fact was damning for Clinton. The parts of the statement that were helpful to Clinton were more along the lines of conclusions or opinions (and I thought at least a couple of the conclusions were contradictory to the facts cited immediately prior).

 

[The General]

Ya, not as light hearted as the murder stuff 

So you think the Clinton's murdered someone Only tinhat folks thought that was real.

 

[Smack Tripper]

We are all over the age of 12 on this board (yes, I'm giving squiz the benefit of the doubt) so let's not pretend justice is blind.  Of course she was giving preferential treatment but honestly giving the circumstances I don't how it could be avoided.  I think Comey is a stand up guy but let's not live in Lala land.

This is really the bottom line.  People act like we live in "I'm just a bill" land

 

[whoknew]

This is really the bottom line.  People act like we live in "I'm just a bill" land

Something we can all agree on - rich white people get preferential treatment in the justice system. 

 

[The General]

Something we can all agree on - rich white people get preferential treatment in the justice system. 

Let's be honest all rich people get preferential treatment.

People that are super talented get preferential treatment.

None of this is new.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What did Comey say with respect to the "reason for having the private server"?  

Here was Hillary's statement first:

First, when I got to work as secretary of state, I opted for convenience to use my personal email account, which was allowed by the State Department, because I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal emails instead of two.

Here's what Comey said:

I have so far used the singular term, “e-mail server,” in describing the referral that began our investigation. It turns out to have been more complicated than that. Secretary Clinton used several different servers and administrators of those servers during her four years at the State Department, and used numerous mobile devices to view and send e-mail on that personal domain. As new servers and equipment were employed, older servers were taken out of service, stored, and decommissioned in various ways.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As for "receiving classified material" I don't think anything today changed anything.  Maybe the exact number (56 threads/110 emails) is new, but we knew that at least two were in question.

Separately, it is important to say something about the marking of classified information. Only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information. But even if information is not marked “classified” in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it.

- Some of the documents were indeed marked.

- Hillary had an obligation to protect the information even when not marked.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

What did Comey say with respect to the "reason for having the private server"?  

Here was Hillary's statement first:

First, when I got to work as secretary of state, I opted for convenience to use my personal email account, which was allowed by the State Department, because I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for my personal emails instead of two.

Here's what Comey said:

I have so far used the singular term, “e-mail server,” in describing the referral that began our investigation. It turns out to have been more complicated than that. Secretary Clinton used several different servers and administrators of those servers during her four years at the State Department, and used numerous mobile devices to view and send e-mail on that personal domain. As new servers and equipment were employed, older servers were taken out of service, stored, and decommissioned in various ways.

Oh God not this nonsense again!   How many devices did Hillary use in January of 2009?   The fact that she upgraded her Blackberry (all of those 2010 emails about its failures), obtained and was intrigued by the jPad (sic)  when they  came out, upgraded servers, eventually had staff lugging around several other devices. etc. doesn't make her statement concerning her decision in 2009 false.  

 

[Guest]

Interested if she could face a civil suit...  Couldn't Bernie donors claim fraud and demand their donations back?  She lied about facts that influenced the election... And leaked emails showed collusion between the DNC and media.  Maybe Bernie donors need to threaten to bankrupt the DNC and Hillary personally... $48 at a time.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Oh God not this nonsense again!   How many devices did Hillary use in January of 2009?   The fact that she upgraded her Blackberry (all of those 2010 emails about its failures), obtained and was intrigued by the jPad (sic)  when they  came out, upgraded servers, eventually had staff lugging around several other devices. etc. doesn't make her statement concerning her decision in 2009 false.  

Bring it up with Mr. Comey.

 

[The General]

Interested if she could face a civil suit...  Couldn't Bernie donors claim fraud and demand their donations back?  She lied about facts that influenced the election... And leaked emails showed collusion between the DNC and media.  Maybe Bernie donors need to threaten to bankrupt the DNC and Hillary personally.

Good idea

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

AP FACT CHECK: Clinton email claims collapse under FBI probe


WASHINGTON (AP) — Key assertions by Hillary Clinton in defense of her email practices have collapsed under FBI scrutiny.

The agency's yearlong investigation found that she did not, as she claimed, turn over all her work-related messages for release. It found that her private email server did carry classified emails, also contrary to her past statements. And it made clear that Clinton used many devices to send and receive email despite her statements that she set up her email system so that she only needed to carry one.

FBI Director James Comey's announcement Tuesday that he will not refer criminal charges to the Justice Department against Clinton spared her from prosecution and a devastating political predicament. But it left much of her account in tatters and may have aggravated questions of trust swirling around her Democratic presidential candidacy.

 
A look at Clinton's claims since questions about her email practices as secretary of state surfaced and how they compare with facts established in the FBI probe:

 
CLINTON: "I did not email any classified material to anyone on my email. There is no classified material." News conference, March 2015.

THE FACTS: Actually, the FBI identified at least 113 emails that passed through Clinton's server and contained materials that were classified at the time they were sent, including some that were Top Secret and referred to a highly classified special access program, Comey said.

Most of those emails — 110 of them — were included among 30,000 emails that Clinton returned to the State Department around the time her use of a private email server was discovered. The three others were recovered from a forensic analysis of Clinton's server. "Any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton's position or in the position of those with whom she was corresponding about the matters should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation," Comey said. Clinton and her aides "were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information," he said.

___

CLINTON: "I never received nor sent any material that was marked classified." NBC interview, July 2016.

THE FACTS: Clinton has separately clung to her rationale that there were no classification markings on her emails that would have warned her and others not to transmit the sensitive material. But the private system did, in fact, handle emails that bore markings indicating they contained classified information, Comey said.

He said the marked emails were "a very small number." But that's not the only standard for judging how officials handle sensitive material, he added. "Even if information is not marked classified in an email, participants who know, or should know, that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it."

___

CLINTON: "I responded right away and provided all my emails that could possibly be work related" to the State Department. News conference, March 2015.

THE FACTS: Not so, the FBI found.

Comey said that when his forensic team examined Clinton's server it found there were "several thousand work-related emails that were not in the group of 30,000" that had been returned by Clinton to the State Department.

___

CLINTON: "I thought it would be easier to carry just one device for my work and for personal emails instead of two." News conference, March 2015.

THE FACTS: This reasoning for using private email both for public business and private correspondence didn't hold up in the investigation. Clinton "used numerous mobile devices to view and send email" using her personal account, Comey said. He also said Clinton had used different servers.

___

CLINTON: "It was on property guarded by the Secret Service, and there were no security breaches. ... The use of that server, which started with my husband, certainly proved to be effective and secure." News conference, March 2015.

CLINTON campaign website: "There is no evidence there was ever a breach."

THE FACTS: The campaign website claimed "no evidence" of a breach, a less categorical statement than Clinton herself made last year, when she said there was no breach. The FBI did not uncover a breach but made clear that that possibility cannot be ruled out.

"We assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton's personal email account," Comey said.

He said evidence would be hard to find because hackers are sophisticated and can cover their tracks. Comey said his investigators learned that Clinton's security lapses included using "her personal email extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related emails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries." Comey also noted that hackers breached the email accounts of several outsiders who messaged with Clinton.

Comey did not mention names, but a Romanian hacker who called himself Guccifer accessed and later leaked emails from Sidney Blumenthal, an outside adviser to Clinton who regularly communicated with her.

___

CLINTON: "I opted for convenience to use my personal email account, which was allowed by the State Department." News conference, March 2015.

THE FACTS: Comey did not address Clinton's reason for using a private server instead of a government one, but he highlighted the perils in routing sensitive information through a home server.

The FBI found that Clinton's personal server was "not even supported by full-time security staff like those found at agencies and departments of the United States government or even with a commercial email service like Gmail," the director said.

A May 2016 audit by the State Department inspector general found there was no evidence Clinton sought or received approval to operate a private server, and that she "had an obligation to discuss using her personal email account to conduct official business with their offices." Courts have frowned on such a practice.

In an unrelated case, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled Tuesday that the purpose of public records law is "hardly served" when a department head "can deprive the citizens of their right to know what his department is up to" by maintaining emails on a private system.

 

[Parrothead]

Hillary lied??    Let me find my shocked face

soooo  f'n slimy..   good job America..  bunch of dopes

 

[Politician Spock]

Yes it's true that people don't get prosecuted for doing what she did... but that's because getting fired and having your career ruined for it has been punishment enough for those that did it before her. 

 

[pantherclub]

Hold up, people are defending Hillary in here?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Well the Benghazi and Email scandals are all finished... except for some serious gnashing of teeth. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Oh God not this nonsense again!   How many devices did Hillary use in January of 2009?   The fact that she upgraded her Blackberry (all of those 2010 emails about its failures), obtained and was intrigued by the jPad (sic)  when they  came out, upgraded servers, eventually had staff lugging around several other devices. etc. doesn't make her statement concerning her decision in 2009 false.  

Bring it up with Mr. Comey.

Comey is discussing the scope of the work his agents had to perform in order to recreate as close as possible the environment in which these e-mails resided 

I have so far used the singular term, “e-mail server,” in describing the referral that began our investigation. It turns out to have been more complicated than that. Secretary Clinton used several different servers and administrators of those servers during her four years at the State Department, and used numerous mobile devices to view and send e-mail on that personal domain. As new servers and equipment were employed, older servers were taken out of service, stored, and decommissioned in various ways. Piecing all of that back together—to gain as full an understanding as possible of the ways in which personal e-mail was used for government work—has been a painstaking undertaking, requiring thousands of hours of effort.

Nowhere here does Comey reference Hillary's statements on why she made the decision to use a private server, and I'm pretty certain he doesn't mention it elsewhere either.   So why am I blaming Comey for his words being misrepresented?